| Author | |
mom2mpr
Forum All-Star
Joined: May 16 2006
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1550
|
| Posted: Nov 30 2012 at 2:38pm | IP Logged
|
 |
|
We have been struggling the past 2 years ramping into a little more structure for high school for ds. He hates it. He is very bright and we have so enjoyed our homeschool journey with read alouds, living books, field trips, activities, etc. I wish i could find a real life type curriculum that would prepare him for SAT/ACT/PSAT and college. I really want to enjoy these last few years but also want him to get the real world. KWIM. 
I need to be able to give him credits and the easiest way for me in my life is to have him go through texts and follow some normal school type work.
Is he going to mature into it? And I should just keep my shoulder to the wheel? I just miss my normal happy go lucky guy. I am the one making him do everything and we have no time for fun when it is (finally) all done. And I am really only pushing for Algebra and Physical Science. Literature has gone away, and history, etc.
Tell my about the transition to high school drudgery, please.
__________________
Anne, married to dh 16 years!, ds,(97), Little One (02), and dd (02).
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Booksnbabes
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 20 2008
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4141
|
| Posted: Nov 30 2012 at 4:29pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Not there yet, so no help, but sending  and  !
__________________
Wife to wonderful DH, mom to SIX beautiful gifts from God!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
SallyT
Forum All-Star
Joined: Aug 08 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2489
|
| Posted: Nov 30 2012 at 9:07pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Is he a 9th grader? Kids do mature a lot over the course of these four years, and as they begin to develop definite interests, they do tend to become more willing to do the drudge work in service of those interests. So that's one thought.
Do you have co-op or any other kind of classes available? Outside classes have been a lifesaver for me and my 9th graders. My oldest actually discovered an unexpected academic interest in a co-op class that carried her through high school on a big wave of motivation. Also, the contact with other students and adults can be very influential at this age, and can induce a student to be serious when he/she might otherwise not want to be. It really helps to have someone other than Mom dictating that this or that get done.
But in general, yes, I find that homeschooling high school is quite different from homeschooling at other stages. It is more like a job, less like fun. There are always some things my kids enjoy and pursue because they're interested, and I really try to nurture that and give lots of space for it, but there are also things they just do because they know they have to do them if they ever want to leave home. So far my kids have been quite college-oriented, so what we do is designed not just to get them through high school, but also to acclimate them to what will be expected of them in college. If/when I have a child whose path does not seem to go in that direction, we'll adjust accordingly.
Have you had your child think about where he wants to be in four or five years? A very useful exercise may be to have him research colleges and to look at what he will need to do to get into the kind of environment he wants to be in. For my oldest, who definitely didn't want to do things I wanted her to do, this was very motivating when my own word wasn't. Sometimes a "vision reminder" -- a little touchpoint where he thinks about where he's going, and the fact that this hard work is leading towards something -- can be very helpful as a re-focus. Because truly, this is a time when the work gets serious, and it can be hard to remember why you're doing these un-fun things.
Of course, it doesn't all have to be un-fun. CHC's High School of Your Dreams has some good suggestions for covering subject matter in an experiential way -- as pricey as that resource is, I've been really glad to have it on my shelf. Even though we've been, so far, very bookish and college-oriented, we've still used some of their experiential/hands-on ideas. I also like the model, from their middle-school plans, of turning a year's worth of a subject like history into a series of research projects -- that kind of thing gives the student some choice within a framework, and it turns "homework" into a series of discoveries. Something to think about . . .
But yes, in general, I find that the rewards of high school are really different, though they're certainly there (and for what it's worth, I LOVE teenagers and high school -- this is my favorite phase). I like being able to talk to my child as a young adult, with ideas of his own about what he wants to be doing in a few years. I like working together to negotiate what we'll do to meet the requirements and challenges of this stage -- what he *has* to do vs. what he wants to do. How to meet in the middle? How to balance what he really loves and would do all the time, to the exclusion of anything else, against the things we both know that he has to do, to be educated in a truly full, rich, deep, dimensional way?
Finally, I also find that, especially for my son who's currently in 9th grade, Dad is a lot more important than I am -- our situation is such that our son spends a lot more time with his father (going to work with him three and four days a week in order to take classes), and I hardly feel that I'm "homeschooling" at all. I do miss our former daily closeness, especially with a child to whom I've always been very, very close. But he's becoming a young man, and our relationship is just different. Good, but different. It's easier when I am willing to detach a bit; the little bit of distance also makes it easier for me to say, "Well, you just have to do this." My little boy has sailed; now I have to deal with the man he is becoming, and help him to become that man.
I hope this is remotely helpful. This is a time of transition and of some serious demands, and although we want the last years of our time together to be rich and enjoyable, we also have to weigh that against the future for which we're helping them to prepare. This is the time when I really almost feel that I'm going through a second kind of childbirth, to help the adult to emerge, and it's not always painless! For anyone! But it is so worth doing. Hearing my college daughter talk about her classes, and about how she's dealt with this or that challenge, and done well or this or that assignment, makes me feel that the less-than-joyful days we sometimes spent together, hammering out a work ethic and learning things she didn't think she wanted to learn, were worth it. But boy, was it rough going sometimes . . .
Prayers for you as you figure it out together.
Sally
__________________
Castle in the Sea
Abandon Hopefully
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
mom2mpr
Forum All-Star
Joined: May 16 2006
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1550
|
| Posted: Dec 03 2012 at 11:27am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Sally,
Thank you so much for your encouragement and wisdom. I will make this one of my "favorite" threads to come back to re-read often. Probably, hourly 
__________________
Anne, married to dh 16 years!, ds,(97), Little One (02), and dd (02).
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Marcia
Forum Pro
Joined: Aug 20 2007
Location: Illinois
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 437
|
| Posted: Dec 03 2012 at 2:53pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
We aren't there yet, but I've been researching my friends' CM policies in Highschool and it seems the fears were unwarranted....the CM philosophy should remain the same in highschool, but get more intense. We are finishing "8th grade" this year.
I just recently read the Philosophy of Education and found the Form IV and V to look so much like Form I. It's just the volume of reading is much higher. And of course the reading level has increased. But there still includes read alouds with mom and all the other neat stuff like Nature Study, Shakespeare and the lot....You will still do narration and living books. Narration just is mostly written. Those "great conversations" begin to really make sense with highschoolers. They can truly weigh in with their opinion finally!
Anyone who has truly done CM through highschool want to weigh in?
Have you looked at the http://sageparnassus.blogspot.com/ ?
or http://www.childlightusa.org/index.php ?
__________________
Marcia
Mom to six and wife to one
Homeschooling 10th, 7th, 5th, 2nd, PreK and a toddler in tow.
I wonder why
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Mackfam
Board Moderator
Non Nobis
Joined: April 24 2006
Location: Alabama
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 14656
|
| Posted: Dec 03 2012 at 4:36pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Marcia wrote:
Anyone who has truly done CM through highschool want to weigh in? |
|
|
We have continued our structured Charlotte Mason education through high school. My oldest is a Junior in high school now, and I will have another high schooler in a year.
When we were knocking at the door of high school, I too wondered if a structured Charlotte Mason education could continue into high school. Surely it could, but would it continue to be worthwhile? Would it work? And where were the examples from other home educators? Even just a couple of years ago, so many left what I considered to be a structured Charlotte Mason home education in favor of texts or other options for high school. These are all worthwhile options that a family can consider for high school, but I was looking for examples of a CM high school option because we had been a strong CM family from the beginning...and those habits of atmosphere, discipline and life were strong at that point. I longed for examples of families that continued an education that was living, deep and rich in literature and the liberal arts, continuing a richer and deeper structured Charlotte Mason education. I couldn't find much at the time, but I'm happy that there are some examples beginning to spring up. You can read about the examples and reflections I've shared at my blog: Wildflowers and Marbles: High School.
Unwilling to change HOW we learned just because we were going to slap a 9th grade label on something, I read and read from CM, and we did continue our structured Charlotte Mason methods of education through high school - and what has unfolded continues to be breathtaking and rewarding - both for me and my high schooler. And it is rigorous!!! Very rigorous!
As Marcia mentioned, literature and book choices now become deeper, weightier, richer. Material is still shared through narrations: with oral narrations now taking more of a discussion format and becoming very provocative and inviting. Many narrations are now written and some take the form of essays at the end of a term of work. Discussions on topics covered in literature (whether science, history, the arts, etc) reach well into the meat of the literature as well as finding many, many applications in current events. For the most part, our literary based education has continued and evolved through high school just as it always has whether from 1st grade moving into 2nd...or 7th grade moving into 8th - always a little wider and a little deeper.
I happen to be a firm believer in bringing the high schooler on board with the plan for high school. Sit down and ask your rising high schooler:
** How do you envision your next four years?
** Is there a definite direction you're aiming for?
** Are there particular things you would really like to learn?
** Are you regularly praying about your vocation?
** Have you considered college yet? Is there a direction there yet? (No problem if not!!!...just good to start introducing the idea)
** Are you ready to take the full responsibility for your high school education?
** Are you on board with our current direction/method of education? (Textbooks? Online lectures? Charlotte Mason/Literary based? Outside the home classes?)
** How would you feel if I made a change (large or small) to our method of education?
--> Identify what you have in mind and be clear about why you'd like to make the change.
** What kind of free time are you looking for during your high school years? (Any hobbies an older child wants to pursue can really develop in these years - important to keep this as part of the conversation)
** Can you help identify some areas you'd like to be different/improved in high school? We are looking for tools:
--> What do you think of how we do our lesson plans (purchased or otherwise?) Are they clear?
--> Are there areas I can improve my work (grading? providing clear lesson plans?) to facilitate you being responsible?
--> Are there some courses that you'd really like neutral (not-Mom) input, critique or grading?
--> Are there some courses/subjects you excel in, or have a genuine interest in, that we could provide outside instruction?
----------------------------------------------
I can certainly empathize with you, Anne, in terms of sitting there at the beginning and trying to envision how it will look...indeed, how it will play out in the every-day...desiring to maintain the beauty and richness you've enjoyed during the early years. And, I can say with utmost sincerity just as Sally does, that home educating through high school is utterly rewarding beyond measure for us! So I know that it's possible!
I do credit our CM philosophy and methods a lot with that experience, but I also credit regular, open communication between high schooler and parent(s). This is not a democracy ( ), but I absolutely take my student's input into account and am always looking for ways to grow myself, as well as reasonable tools to give to my student.
When we regularly communicate I can say, "You're not entitled to this or that experience, but I'd love to brainstorm with you to see if you can find a way to earn it, or find opportunities make clear the way." It also gives me opportunities to regularly check on workload, and I do sometimes have to say, "You know what, this is the discipline part of your education. You may not relish "x subject", but we both agreed at the outset (remember that initial conversation when I asked all those questions?) that this was going to be a part of your high school experience. We can brainstorm how to make this more palatable, or even try to come at it from a different angle, but it's your responsibility to live it." And I do sometimes have to say that to my high schooler.
You may not be interested in anything further, Anne - perhaps you were just looking for encouragement, and in that case - BE ENCOURAGED! High school in home education truly can be a blessing as we invite our students into more responsibility, provide them the tools to take the wheel, and have plentiful opportunities to get to know the amazing person they are becoming, cheering them on! It can be a blessing beyond measure and certainly has been in our home! There is an evolution taking place as the child begins to learn and reason more as an adult; there is change, growing and stretching, and as such, it is HARD WORK!
But in case you want to go further....do you want to brainstorm a little? Coming from where you were when both you and your son truly enjoyed your home education experience? When he was happy-go-lucky? What would your booklist/work look like then? How has it changed that your son is overwhelmed with work load and not enjoying things now? Can we dispel some un-truths or assumptions about things that may be considered "necessary" for high school education? We might be able to say, "this or that can be good, helpful or useful in such and such a situation, but is by no means necessary, and therefore, you should give yourself permission to consider it an option, not a requirement."
Let us know if you want to brainstorm, Anne! If not, be encouraged! Every one of us finds moments in home education when things seem to fall flat, or they just don't seem to be measuring up! All of us!! These are actually wonderful moments, even though they don't feel that way at the time. They make us grow! They stretch us - forcing us to ask questions and really own ideas! Be encouraged then in your stretching and growing into high school home education! 
__________________
Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19 , ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
SallyT
Forum All-Star
Joined: Aug 08 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2489
|
| Posted: Dec 04 2012 at 7:07am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Yes, that's all excellent, Jen, particularly your point about conversation. That's been the thing I most enjoy about high school -- that the person with whom I'm talking has the maturity to look beyond right-now-this-minute, and also has some fairly distinctly-outlined interests which we have the freedom to pursue, and to figure out how to turn into high-school credits! Keeping a log/portfolio is a really helpful mechanism, too, because then you have at your fingertips all the random-seeming things your child has done which *can* be woven together into a course of study.
For example: my son's a Boy Scout, which is like its own curriculum in so many ways, and right now he's finishing his Eagle Project, which was to interview WWII veterans in our county for an oral history, to be archived at our county historical association. He's only a ninth grader right now, but you can bet this will be part of his "U.S. History" credit later on, and I won't necessarily be sweating the "but what if we don't cover WWII??" question. He's also a Civil War buff and belongs to our local Civil War historical society, so when the time comes to "do" U.S. History, our course outline will be the result of a conversation about periods of history he *doesn't* already know a lot about. I'll provide the literature list; knowing him, I can trust him to research the rest. This, I guess, would be a slightly unschoolier approach, rather than a strictly CM approach -- even in the earlier years, we are not CM purists at all, though throughout our schooling we do lean heavily on living literature as our core and our primary teacher.
But yes, if you'd like to brainstorm, I think we're all here for you! I can talk all day about what's worked/is working for my high-schoolers, but I'm not you, and they're not your son. We can all be sounding boards for each other, which is always helpful, but especially for high school, when we tend to be a somewhat smaller demographic!
Again, prayers for you and your son.
Sally
__________________
Castle in the Sea
Abandon Hopefully
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
mom2mpr
Forum All-Star
Joined: May 16 2006
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1550
|
| Posted: Dec 04 2012 at 11:48am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Great support ladies. Thank you.
To start I do probably need to find some quiet time to have a chat with ds about is goals, dreams, aspirations for the next few years. He is really clueless and doesn't have much back up from dad because he was pretty much on his own at this point of his life. He never got direction or discussion. That will probably be my step one.
Something I struggle with is the social, interactive part of school. I know this kid would thrive in an intellectual, interactive classroom. I don't have that part in me. But, we don't really have an option I think will work school-wise. Public isn't academic enough and
I know this child will get caught up in the social mess. The private schools are expensive and we would have a 45 minute drive one way.
It is just too much for me. Currently, I have him with a Latin tutor once a week. I am planning on farming out math to a tutor or something like keystone or TPS for next year. He will also take Biology at a Christian high school next year-yes, the 45 minute drive but only once a week and the teacher has a great reputation in our homeschool community.
He does get tired of just being with his little sister and myself ALL day every day. He mentions that frequently. I get it. But don't know what to do about it  he has the above mentioned activities and plays basketball, is very involved with 4H, plays piano for two churches as a fill in and for weddings and funerals, and runs with friends.
When he was happy go lucky we were more relaxed and had more fun. I really only concentrated on reading and math, we had lots of time with friends and play dates and field trips. We also did Sonlight but i don't want to in the upper grades. Maybe some suggestions on how to apply daily life to credits. I did speak with him about that and I think he is just too lazy to keep track of what he does each day. He does suffer severe laziness. I have be on him for everything and I have made him look good all these years. He is talented, but not motivated. I am drawing back and trying to let consequences in the real world work on him some. He has been fairly well protected from failure, especially when it comes to his piano playing as I am always worried about the families who have hired him being disappointed if he messes up
That is all I have time to think of right now. Thank you for any input. I enjoy having him here and he is a wonderful kid, I just want to prepare him for the real world and also enjoy these last few years.
__________________
Anne, married to dh 16 years!, ds,(97), Little One (02), and dd (02).
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Angie Mc
Board Moderator
Joined: Jan 31 2005
Location: Arizona
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 11400
|
| Posted: Dec 05 2012 at 12:48pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Anne I only have a few minutes and read only your posts (because I know the others are awesome and I won't repeat) but I wanted to throw at you my experiences!
High school for boys, in particular, has a lot to do with them claiming their own life and the consequences of their choices. When I hear a mom is "pushing" a son, my immediate thought is this...
Quote:
Son, this is your life. As a man you will be responsible for making choices that will affect your life and the life of your future family. You will need to lead yourself and them through the rough and tumble world into heaven. I'd feel better if you made choices for yourself now, fail, pick yourself back up, fail, and get up again all the better. Your academic life is yours, not mine. All I can tell you is that the straight path of hard work, study, diligence, day-to-day grind is a big part of academic success. Daily mastery is important, but not all of academics. You also need to learn how to ask for help, be creative, and make it your own. No one can do that for you.
Staying home to school is a privilege. Sure there are times of loneliness, frustration, claustrophobia! But no student has a perfect life or environment. So we need to be careful not to use "being at home" as an excuse for not doing our best. For not striving for excellence. Under this roof we strive for excellence. To get there takes a lot of trial and error, so we're not looking for constant perfection. Each of us here will try and fail. But we have to try.
So I can't make you value excellence, I can't make you strive for excellence, but I can say this. I will not allow mediocrity. Period. If you want to be mediocre, then you will have to do that on someone else's turf. Tell me what you want to be excellent at, and we can work from there. It's hard to do everything well all at once, but if you are doing at least one thing in an excellent manner, that is awesome.
Our relationship is too important to me for us to fuss over academics. Let's just keep looking for ways to make you more independent and me more supportive. Let's get a written plan together that reflects our changing roles. You are taking charge of your life. I am stepping back. Your dad will take on the discipline.
Doing it all, all at once is tough. I'm willing to do things for you that can alleviate some stress, like do your laundry, make your bed, and other things until you can do it all yourself. For now I want what I do to be a deposit to our relationship, for you to feel grateful and relieved! All of this is an effort to strengthen your young adult muscles steadily over time. Our goal for you is to be ready to face the world with strength when you are 18  . |
|
|
Yes, I have given a version of this speech to my 2 oldest - I'm getting pretty good at it .
Best wishes, Anne! Feel free to ask for clarification of any of the above - gotta run
Love,
__________________
Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
About Me
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Aagot
Forum All-Star
Joined: Aug 06 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 649
|
| Posted: Dec 05 2012 at 2:10pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Wow! I am stealing this at what age did you drop this bomb shell on your son?
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Angie Mc
Board Moderator
Joined: Jan 31 2005
Location: Arizona
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 11400
|
| Posted: Dec 05 2012 at 2:56pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Aagot wrote:
| Wow! I am stealing this at what age did you drop this bomb shell on your son? |
|
|
Actually, my daughter got it first . Her challenge was that she wanted to hang around the house (strong introvert) and not really contribute to the family and/or do her studies. She has strong language skills (could read, read, write, write, all day.) She wandered through interests and chatted with friends and wandered some more. From her I learned that I needed to not be her everything. I turned over all discipline to her dad when she was a freshman (should have done it sooner). So I leveraged my speech with knowing she did not want to go to the local public school (really, really didn't want to go there) and told her that if she wanted to be mediocre, she could do it there (not saying the school itself is mediocre but that some students choose that there.) Since she was our first, it took awhile for us all to become comfortable in our changing roles. But in the end, it all worked out. She and her dad went on to a great relationship regarding academic discipline that lasts to this day. She will graduate from college this spring 
My oldest son got the speech next when he was in 8th grade. My concerns with him were/are very different, but the same principles are at work. He has chosen to be an excellent baseball player. He is also very social. Sending him to a local school wasn't leverage this time, baseball was/is. For him to have the privilege of playing baseball well, takes a lot of time, support, and money from the family. In return, he needs to keep up with his studies.
I read my first reply to him before I posted and he said, "That's it. Homeschooling kids are still kids and they'll try to take advantage. They don't mean too, it just happens. Homeschooling is a privilege no matter what, so it needs to be treated that way. It may not be for everybody, but no matter what, it is a privilege."
So it's my responsibility and challenge to be on my toes, and make sure I'm doing my best to set us all up well for this privilege. I fail miserably all.the.time. Whatever! It's the trying and getting back up and trying again that is important.
Academics is important, but it is just one piece of a person's life. I want my kids to find out what God's will is for them...that's what keeps this all so interesting.
Love,
__________________
Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
About Me
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Marcia
Forum Pro
Joined: Aug 20 2007
Location: Illinois
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 437
|
| Posted: Dec 06 2012 at 2:50pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
love. thanks Angie and Jen.
I get quite a bit of good CM support in my local town, but none are Catholic...so it's good that you all are here. My daughter in some ways is heading out on her own. I'll be coming back to this thread again and again. Or creating more of my own when I have struggles in the next four (plus five more kids) years.
We've had that conversation already here. In fact after this last baby she told me she was bored taking a babymoon and started back to school work when he was a week old! AH!!
__________________
Marcia
Mom to six and wife to one
Homeschooling 10th, 7th, 5th, 2nd, PreK and a toddler in tow.
I wonder why
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
mom2mpr
Forum All-Star
Joined: May 16 2006
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1550
|
| Posted: Dec 07 2012 at 4:05pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Ladies, thank you so much! I come back here often to read, digest, peruse, think, ponder, worry, etc.
I did talk briefly to him as Angie did to her kids. He has heard it before in different ways. Mine seems to have a good case of apathy. He just doesn't KNOW. Motivation is lacking big time. My mom heart is just sad because I know this kid has potential to do big things in his life. Many talents and brain cells. And that may be the issue, he really hasn't had to "work," it all comes easy. That is changing as he hits this high school work, and it is a lot. Dh has mentioned a few times he thinks this kid needs to be told what to do by someone else and high school should be seriously considered. But not having any academically serious schools I don't see it being a good plan.
We'll see where we are led. I am off to try to reinspire a 15 year old to study for algebra test for Monday.
__________________
Anne, married to dh 16 years!, ds,(97), Little One (02), and dd (02).
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
Forum Locked) 
4Real Forums : High School Years and Beyond
Topic: Not enjoying home high school
