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seeker
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| Posted: Oct 02 2012 at 4:32pm | IP Logged
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... and not even 2 months into the school year 
I am into my second year of homeschooling (my girls are in 3rd grade and kindergarten), and I'm not sure where I've gone wrong, what I'm doing wrong, or what I can do to fix it or if I'm putting this in the right forum!
Where do I start?
I guess last year I should have just focused on habit training. This year I'm afraid to let go of most of our "schooly" schoolwork because the state requires third graders to take state testing (reading, grammar, and math).
My 8 year old is especially good at arguing and manipulating. Her perfect day would be spent laying on the couch playing video games and watching TV (she does get away with too much of this - my DH spends a ton of time playing video games as well). She seems like she's so angry almost all the time, especially if she doesn't get her way. She is just like the "little girl who had a little curl." I know the sweet side of her, but I am afraid she's going to grow up so lonely if she continues on this path. If she does something wrong (disobeys, bullies her sister, etc.) and we correct or punish her she gets angry at us instead of being sorry for what she has done. She's a very intelligent child but is always "too tired" to do anything in the education area. She always wants me to provide the answers instead of having to bother with finding them out herself. She really enjoys reading but despises narration. She is good at all her subjects but hates "school." However, she does not want to go back to public school.
My kindergartener is a sweet, gentle-hearted girl who is always willing to help me out and is immediately sorry (to the point of being heartbroken) when she has done something wrong. However, she has always lagged behind in her speech and her elocution (if that's the right word) is still pretty bad. She doesn't want to do any work either. Last year I focused mainly on my older because, I reasoned that my younger was still a preschooler. Now she is still getting her letter sounds mixed up but is getting a little better. Some letters she still can't recognize. She can only count out loud to sixteen before she starts messing up. She only recognizes the numerals 1-5 and 7. My husband has always wanted her tested for LD (really for the speech delay), and I never thought she had any sort of problem. Now I'm having second thoughts.
Actually I'm starting to wonder if they both should be tested: the older for behavior and the younger for learning.
I don't know what to do and I'm starting to think I'm making a mistake in choosing to homeschool them (my DH is against it, but our schools here are deplorable so he relented). I prayed and prayed about this choice, but maybe I misunderstood what God was telling me...
??
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jawgee
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| Posted: Oct 02 2012 at 6:44pm | IP Logged
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Oh, I can just hear your frustration. Prayers!!
Last year I had a 4th grader and a Kindergartener. My 4th grader is a very intense kid, so I can understand the "angry almost all of the time" comment.
We have a set schedule in the morning, a daily student planner that itemizes the work that needs to be done every day, and a firm rule that there is no screen time until 4:00 in the afternoon. I feel like having those rules in place reduce the number of arguments and set the expectations for the day. My oldest can choose to cooperate...or not. If not, though, he loses activities, free time in the afternoon, and screen time in the late afternoon.
My now 1st grader had a speech delay. We had him tested through the public school when he was 3. They wanted to enroll him in their preschool, but I told them I only wanted speech services. I ended up bringing him into the PS for one hour each week (over the course of three years). He "graduated" last June. (That hour was also great one-on-one time for me to have with my oldest).
Hope some of those things help you. I'm only in my second year HSing, too, so I'm definitely not an expert!
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Aagot
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| Posted: Oct 02 2012 at 8:02pm | IP Logged
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I would tie the video games and tv time to her attitude and behavior. Prepare for the first day or so to be really bad until she gets that you mean it. For example, each day she starts off with 40 points. She needs 40 pts for 1hr (or whatever chunk of time you want). She needs 45 for 2hr and 50 for 3hr ( I really am just making up time here so you choose what works).
If she disobeys, talks back, hits her sister etc she loses points (you decide how many). If she cooperates, is nice, civil, kind,does her chores and school work, she gains points. What ever the count is at 4 or 5:00 (when you want the electronics on) is how much time she gets.
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SallyT
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| Posted: Oct 03 2012 at 7:32am | IP Logged
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Hugs. My youngest daughter is 8, too, and a lot of this sounds very familiar. It's not good, but it's not abnormal, either -- this age (until about 12, I'm afraid) was especially tough with my oldest daughter as well. Little as they are, they may already be gearing up hormonally for puberty (I know, not what you want to think about, right?), and the chaos inside them manifests as anger, frustration, defiance, etc. FWIW, I've found this stage FAR harder than the teenage years so far, for both boys and girls. We have intense personalities here, too, and many days are real struggles.
We have almost entirely eliminated screen time for our two in this age window (my two youngest are 10 and 8). This is easier in that we don't have a tv, and I have managed to confiscate and "lose" pretty much all the game devices we own. Games have been a worse problem for my 10yo son's behavior, but I haven't seen that they do anyone much good, especially as behavior goes. The youngers did have very limited computer privileges using my laptop, which is currently in the shop recovering from somebody's $600 glass of root beer. The silver lining of this is that I can now say, "I'm sorry, but my computer is an adults-only device from now on."
Anyway, I think that severe limiting and miserly rationing of screen time can really help, especially if you can enlist your husband's support in terms of being mindful of the example that parents set for their children. I've had to try to cope with my own computer habits in order to "walk the walk" I'm trying to get my kids to walk!
Otherwise, all this "too tired" business . . . my response tends to be, "Well, we'll make sure you're in bed really early tonight," and to follow through on it, to the tune of going to bed pretty much right after dinner. Or, "Oh, well, then, you must be too tired to play; why don't you go upstairs and get in bed?" and so on. I have sent a child to bed for an hour (like the Victorians!), because she *said* she was so tired . . .
Overall, the challenge that I find myself presented with is to maintain calm (which is so hard!) and not to collapse in the face of the emotional manipulation and so forth. It is a form of bullying, though the child herself may not realize or intend that consciously, and the best thing the adult can do is to be above being bullied. If I find myself getting angry, I say, "I'm about to get angry. I'm going to go in my room and shut the door for a little while," which often seems to work better than a time-out for the child in terms of eliciting a better response after we've both cooled down. My other best response is simply to ignore all the "I hate school" stuff, tell myself I'm not going to worry about how she *feels* about me or what I'm asking her to do, and to say calmly, "Well, this is what you have to do before you can do anything else."
There do just seem to be developmental phases when you have to put aside your visions of homeschooling as sweet and joyful and delightful and cozy, at least for a while. We went through some tempestuous times with our oldest in the beginning -- she was 9 when we started homeschooling -- but she and I both are glad that we stuck with it, and that I made her do some things she didn't want to do. In fact, we both wish I'd been tougher when it came to math . . . but she did fine in her one college math class, so all has been well in the end. She's also quite a lovely person at 18, too; maturity works wonders, smoothing out the rough edges of those intense personalities. I do have high hopes for my current 8yo, but boy, do I feel your daily pain . . .
Finally, try not to let the specter of testing stress you out too much. We have state-mandated annual testing in NC, and I know that at the back of my mind the prospect of the tests is driving some things that I do. At the same time, my observation has been that it's pretty normal for kids to be all over the map, very strong in some subjects and behind in others, at this age, especially if you're using curriculum (as in math) that doesn't line up with the scope and sequence the test presumes. It's also very useful to remind yourself that children in brick-and-mortar school, exposed to curriculum geared toward success on these tests, are STILL all over the map ,and many, many -- again, exposed daily to the same curriculum -- test below grade level in one or more area for all kinds of reasons which may have nothing to do with either the child's ability or the quality of instruction. I try to use our tests as gentle diagnostics, but with a grain of salt: I can see where our weak areas are (not that I didn't kind of know already) and make plans to address those weaknesses, but with the knowledge that those numbers aren't anything like a complete picture of my children or their learning.
Anyway, again, sending a prayerful hug your way this morning. I hear footsteps on my stairs, so it's time to plunge into the adventure of my day as well!
Sally
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CSBasile
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| Posted: Oct 05 2012 at 7:39am | IP Logged
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I am so glad you posted this--although not glad you are going through these trials and tribulations! But your older daughter sounds a lot like mine. She was "angry and tired" last year, still a little bit this year but much better than last year. This year, I enrolled her part-time in a homeschool co-op for math and reading. Then, when she starts to argue about schoolwork, I can always say "your teacher says you need to do it!" Sometimes kids seem to take it more seriously when it is coming from someone other than the parent. Especially when the parent is with them all the time and constantly guiding/correcting them in all aspects of their lives. (Does that make sense?) I'm also trying to make sure she gets A LOT more physical activity--a gym class on Fridays, swim team, ballet for 3 hours a week. She's a very active kid and really needs a lot of physical activity to focus. That may not be the issue with your daughter, but if she's doing a lot of video game playing, she may not even realize her body is aching for more physical activity and it comes out in crabbiness and being tired.
I'm in my third year of homeschooling--not an expert. Seems like every year we need to tweak things a bit. So I'll be using some of the advice you received above, too!
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mamaslearning
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| Posted: Oct 16 2012 at 12:59pm | IP Logged
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I kind of skimmed the replies, so I'm sorry if this has been suggested, but is she getting enough sleep? Are you getting enough sleep? Sleep deprivation has caused lots of chaos in our household, but now that my youngest is sleeping in his bed 80% of the time I can see how getting adequate sleep is helping all of us.
Just thought I'd throw that out as a possible suspect.
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asplendidtime
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| Posted: Oct 16 2012 at 4:55pm | IP Logged
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Sally, your post was golden! Helps in so many ways. I found myself up in my room with toddler in the en-suite for potty, door shut, and in tears. Just thank you. You've given words and understanding to the situation I find us in.
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mariB
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| Posted: Oct 17 2012 at 5:37am | IP Logged
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I just read your post and I happened to have read a chapter of Karen Andreola's book Charlotte Mason Companion chapter 7 "Bickerings". It talks about this very thing and about correction. Sometimes too much discipline can cause resentment. I am reading that chapter again today and also chapter 6 atmosphere.
Years ago I had to ask my husband if he would limit TV so that it wouldn't be a temptation to the children. With much sacrifice for him, he did. It's hard for parents because they sacrifice so much already just by homeschooling. But creating an atmosphere is so important.
I have one daughter that is still given to stubborness and resentment at times. I love the kind correction that Charlotte Mason Companion implores. Also, my friend recommended the book The 5 Languages of Love. You can take a test online to see where your child feels love. Is it physical..like a hug..is it in service..like doing things for him/her.
Also, sometimes taking a break from school and having fun is a great thing to do. Go to museums, take nature walks, read aloud to the kids, draw, paint, sketch, play with beeswax, bake, and enjoy the time with the kids!
We do standardized tests here each year. Our town's average scores in the past were around the 29th percentile. So don't worry!
I will be praying for you. All families experience a lot of these behaviors while homeschooling because home is a safe place. May God bless you and your family...you are doing a great job.
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Barb.b
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| Posted: Oct 17 2012 at 8:25am | IP Logged
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One thing that comes to mind is - I wouldn't question your homeschooling the kids. My first reaction is - if your 8 yr old were in school - her behavior would be worse then now. Think about it - you would see her LESS; she would have homework that would become a battle; influences of the other kids (usually negative!). . .
Another thing that comes to mind - in discipling give out the consequences (that have been already laid out), with very little (or no) discussion. Only discuss and expect an apology AFTER she has calmed down. Most kids respond to discipline with anger (some more then others) - you can't discuss or expect the apology till after that anger is gone because during it they just won't really hear you or be able to express it. And I would remove yourself from the room when she does get angry - don't give her the "audience".
When any of my kids have been frustrating - it is hard but I had to keep reminding myself that they would be this way weather we homeschooled or not so THANK GOD WE DID HOMESCHOOL SO I COULD HELP IN THE SITUATION.
It is tough. Most of us began homeschooling with some sort of vision of how it would be. So, most of us got a big wake up call when reality was different then our vision. But reading about your dd made me think that it is a good thing you are homeschooling! Keep it up!
Barb
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seeker
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| Posted: Oct 17 2012 at 10:12am | IP Logged
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I just want to thank you all for your support, advice, and prayers. We are just taking things one day at a time right now. I have made a few changes in our routine by limiting the electronics (it's still probably what you would consider a lot, but we are working on it). The girls now have a "sign-up slip" where they must write their show choice for the day, and I have begun to faithfully use the kitchen timer to limit their game time. This has been a real help.
I'm really trying to relax more with my kindergartener and realize that she's just going to learn at her own pace. I've begun playing "secret message" reading games with her and she's really been enjoying those. We are also just counting numbers on the hundred board while I point to them; I'm not quizzing for random numbers now. I had a very good chat with her CDC teacher yesterday, and she was very positive about dd2's abilities, so that really put my mind at ease.
It really is such a wake up call! But I'm so glad to have a supportive community to turn to when I'm feeling overwhelmed!!
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: So, so, so stressed out...
