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Maggie
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Hi Moms~
Please don't misunderstand. It's not an argument between him and I...rather, it is his way of saying, "I know you struggle with organization...and lists...and having order...and "accomplishing" things...maybe this will give you accountability?"
I see his point.
However, there is not a single boxed curriculum that I like.
Moreover, my dd won't fit into a single grade level...
I guess I am asking...how do you plan and structure a day...and have accountability...while designing your own curriculum?
Accountability is good...I just don't know how to go about that in my situation...a boxed curricula would bore me before I even got started...but for my dh (who is not steeped in all the educational philosophy, etc that I am), a boxed curricula seems the best course.
Thoughts?
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pumpkinmom
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What about making goals for your dc with dh's help? Perhaps monthly goals or some set amount of time (not too long). At the end of the that time you and Dh go through to see if the goals have been met and then make a new set of goals. This will cover accountability for Dh, but allow you to continue with what you are using. I guess if goals can't be met after a year, perhaps give the box stuff a try.
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Claire F
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Although I don't use a boxed curriculum, I do use some curricula and can track progress in terms of what we've finished. For example, we did Right Start math for 1st grade, so I knew we wanted to complete level B during our school year. I could roughly track our progress and make sure we were on pace to finish the book by the end of our school year. I'll do the same this year with level C. We used BFSU for science, and I wanted to do about 20 of the lessons, so I could track that accordingly. At the end of the year, I knew we'd done what I set out to do in those areas.
For subjects that were more "loose" if you will, like language arts, I simply planned on doing things like copywork and narrations several times a week throughout the school year.
A blank lesson plan grid also helped me. I created a spreadsheet with the days of the week across the top and the subjects we were covering down the side. Then I could write in a lesson plan (in pencil!) and check things off as we accomplished them. That gave me both a visual representation of what I'd want to do in a week, and also a way to track progress and look back and see how much we were really getting done.
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Claire
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kristacecilia
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I do mostly what Claire does.
I try to make a basic lesson plan in Excel. Something that says "Monday: Read 4 pages from (living history title): Narrate." It has a basic lesson for each subject and each day of the week. (Mine are very similar to Jen/Mackfam's and she has lots of examples on her blog if you want to see it visually.
Then I have a basic idea of what I *want* to cover- my goals. From there I can keep a check list of what we finish and a record of the actual books we read. I am almost always behind where I want to be, but we are always making progress to some extent.
We use a math program (Math Mammoth and Life of Fred), a phonics program (Little Angel Readers), and a science program (Building Foundations of Scientific Understanding), and that makes it easy to track progress on those skills.
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I blog at http://kristacecilia.wordpress.com/
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Martha
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For me it boils down to two things:
Realistic plans written in advance
And
Guarding our time/routine to ensure the plans are carried out
Honestly?
IME that is likely the key to anything you use, boxed or not.
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Martha
mama to 7 boys & 4 girls
Yes, they're all ours!
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JodieLyn
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I don't know which they are in particular but there are umbrella schools that allow for flexibility in level of work but provide the accountability you're looking for.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
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All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
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CatholicMommy
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:) This is why I use the Montessori albums - I've got the framework I need; the presentations I need; but my son still lots of flexibility to go further ahead or linger behind wherever needed; but I can still see where progress is being made and if we are getting "too far behind" that we might need to look at alternatives. AND he has time left for his own personal interests (which are deep!).
:)
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TxTrish
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My husband preferred I start with a boxed curriculum when we began homeschooling years ago.
His bottom line was the best education available.
So -
That is exactly what I did.
Make no mistake, it wasn't a fight at our house either.
What he did know about homeschooling, was basically what I had shared with him in my research.
And, make no mistake - I am no shrinking violet or whatever those weak-willed, non-opinionated, compliant women are called by any stretch of the imagination. Anyone's imagination. 
We used Seton when we began homeschooling. We used it fully enrolled for 3 years. By that time, hubby had seen what homeschooling produced and loved our family life. He had been to some hs conventions with me, we knew other homeschooling families and parents, and he was comfortable with me doing a more CM, Unit, whatever you want to call it style education with the children. We agreed on what could be better, and the way to get there was to NOT enroll any longer.
Then we jumped in.
I was comfortable, HE was comfortable, and we did great.
So, there is my experience for you.
That is what worked for us.
No regrets.
And for what it is worth.
I am freakishly organized, I love to plan and do.
Your classic overachiever type.
And, while I strongly agree that the curriculum we are using in school for any given subject has to fit my childs learning style AND my teaching style....
me being "bored" would never be a part of a decision that was best for my children in my choices for their education.
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and a grandson!
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Maggie
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TxTrish wrote:
My husband preferred I start with a boxed curriculum when we began homeschooling years ago.
His bottom line was the best education available.
So -
That is exactly what I did.
Make no mistake, it wasn't a fight at our house either.
What he did know about homeschooling, was basically what I had shared with him in my research.
And, make no mistake - I am no shrinking violet or whatever those weak-willed, non-opinionated, compliant women are called by any stretch of the imagination. Anyone's imagination.
We used Seton when we began homeschooling. We used it fully enrolled for 3 years. By that time, hubby had seen what homeschooling produced and loved our family life. He had been to some hs conventions with me, we knew other homeschooling families and parents, and he was comfortable with me doing a more CM, Unit, whatever you want to call it style education with the children. We agreed on what could be better, and the way to get there was to NOT enroll any longer.
Then we jumped in.
I was comfortable, HE was comfortable, and we did great.
So, there is my experience for you.
That is what worked for us.
No regrets.
And for what it is worth.
I am freakishly organized, I love to plan and do.
Your classic overachiever type.
And, while I strongly agree that the curriculum we are using in school for any given subject has to fit my childs learning style AND my teaching style....
me being "bored" would never be a part of a decision that was best for my children in my choices for their education. |
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LOL! You lift my spirits. Trish--you write the way you talk. Why do I feel like you are sitting here with me as I read your post? 
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Wife to dh (12 years) Mama to dd (10) ds (8), dd (1), ds (nb) and to Philip Mary (5/26/09), Lucy Joy (12/6/09), and Margaret Mary (3/6/10) who entered Heaven before we had a chance to hold them.
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Maggie
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JodieLyn wrote:
| I don't know which they are in particular but there are umbrella schools that allow for flexibility in level of work but provide the accountability you're looking for. |
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We don't have an umbrella school that offers "Accountability". Rather, ours merely takes attendance and submits that as a buffer between us and the county.
Are there "national" umbrella schools that cross state lines that do this?
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Wife to dh (12 years) Mama to dd (10) ds (8), dd (1), ds (nb) and to Philip Mary (5/26/09), Lucy Joy (12/6/09), and Margaret Mary (3/6/10) who entered Heaven before we had a chance to hold them.
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Maggie
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| Posted: July 09 2012 at 7:35pm | IP Logged
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Martha wrote:
For me it boils down to two things:
Realistic plans written in advance
And
Guarding our time/routine to ensure the plans are carried out
Honestly?
IME that is likely the key to anything you use, boxed or not. |
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Hmmm...all the things I am really bad at doing... 
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Wife to dh (12 years) Mama to dd (10) ds (8), dd (1), ds (nb) and to Philip Mary (5/26/09), Lucy Joy (12/6/09), and Margaret Mary (3/6/10) who entered Heaven before we had a chance to hold them.
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CrunchyMom
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Martha wrote:
For me it boils down to two things:
Realistic plans written in advance
And
Guarding our time/routine to ensure the plans are carried out
Honestly?
IME that is likely the key to anything you use, boxed or not. |
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Yes. There are plenty of people who get behind trying to follow a boxed curriculum.
I find that checklists allow for accountability when putting together my own curriculum. Your children are still young, too, so you can't get TOO far behind, at this point. It is mostly about habits of learning at this point rather than material covered. You can put your energy into finding a daily rhythm and holding yourself accountable to it. My ds has a weekly checklist, and I can collect those for a record of things done. At the end of the year, you can see that you did math every day or 4x a week or whatever rather than being stressed about not finishing x book at the right time. Once you've established the habit of doing some things every day, you can stretch and build on it . As someone who is organizationally challenged, I think building habits of independent learning will serve you as you try to implement your own choices.
I also think that Sarah's color coded checklists she shared are a simple way to organize your curricula and hold yourself accountable.
This sort of thing makes SO much more sense to me than a lesson plan that says Tuesday October 14 do these things, only, the baby discovers an old sudafed box and decides to spread foil everywhere, so you have to go to the emergency room not knowing how much he might have eaten (if any) when of course, the reason the box was out to begin with was because you are battling an ear infection, etc... And now you are behind...FOREVER. 
You probably won't hit on the system that works best for you on your first try, but I am grateful for having had the opportunities to experiment with planning and working out solutions for doing my thing while my children are young and finding what works for me gradually as the need for more accountability and structure increases as my children advance.
I'm not telling you not to use a boxed curriculum! Just offering a perspective as someone who isn't organized but hasn't. My husband has never suggested I use a boxed curriculum (yet). I'm blessed that he has been able to recognize how much our children learn outside of structured school. But I have come to develop a lot of the structure that has existed in our schooling out of his expressed need for more accountability, and we have a found a lot of middle ground as I share things with dh and we grow together.
Also, just because I've always been enamored with it but don't know anyone who actually uses it, Simply Charlotte Mason's online planner seems very intuitive, and it might provide the structure you need in developing your own plans in a concrete way for your dh to see.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Maggie
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Quote:
This sort of thing makes SO much more sense to me than a lesson plan that says Tuesday October 14 do these things, only, the baby discovers an old sudafed box and decides to spread foil everywhere, so you have to go to the emergency room not knowing how much he might have eaten (if any) when of course, the reason the box was out to begin with was because you are battling an ear infection, etc... And now you are behind...FOREVER. |
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This. Is. My. Life.
I tried explaining this to dh, but he doesn't seem to quite understand...
Over the last 3 years, we have lost 3 babies (that was in a span of 18 months) and had two surgeries at the PPVI...followed by almost 2 years of complete infertility--which means a TON of doctors appts and phone calls with doctors on my end...carting our poor children to and fro for appts and blood draws, etc...
On top of some extraordinary behavioral challenges...
Things have just not "gotten done". And yet...they have. DD is an incredible reader...she devours books like "Cricket in Times Square" and "Ginger Pye"...and she just turned 7! She has a great handle on Math and Religion...she loves to write stories, etc.
But this is not "bench marking" nor do I compile checklists...I used to...but my excitement for those dwindled when I ran out of pretty paper and my printer stopped working for a couple months...
As our Lord would have it, I am married to Mr. Financial Analysis...whose job it is to "bench-mark" his company against other companies...so he wants something more tangible...and I am just not good at this "tangible" thing.
Sufficed it to say...I am a CMer with a Classical bend and somewhat un-schooly tendencies. How's that for eclectic! My poor, poor husband. Mr. Math married Mrs. Literature/Art/Music...
And now...I'm stuck...and really burned out...and really not looking forward to the next school year at all, regardless of what I do, boxed or not.
Yup. I digress...
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Wife to dh (12 years) Mama to dd (10) ds (8), dd (1), ds (nb) and to Philip Mary (5/26/09), Lucy Joy (12/6/09), and Margaret Mary (3/6/10) who entered Heaven before we had a chance to hold them.
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JennGM
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Maggie wrote:
As our Lord would have it, I am married to Mr. Financial Analysis...whose job it is to "bench-mark" his company against other companies...so he wants something more tangible...and I am just not good at this "tangible" thing.
Sufficed it to say...I am a CMer with a Classical bend and somewhat un-schooly tendencies. How's that for eclectic! My poor, poor husband. Mr. Math married Mrs. Literature/Art/Music...
And now...I'm stuck...and really burned out...and really not looking forward to the next school year at all, regardless of what I do, boxed or not.
Yup. I digress... |
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That's not digressing...that's explaining the bigger picture. You painted my family dynamic. I have married a person who thinks in Excel spreadsheets. He's a CPA.
I also think it's generally the husband who worries about his children, especially his sons, to be normal, to be able to fit in. He wants them to hit the benchmarks he did (or didn't). He wants an all-American childhood for his children.
My husband didn't homeschool, and he's only getting used to it. I'm terrible at getting the checklist and benchmarks to show him, but I do let him see where we are. My son narrates at dinner, shares what he is reading and doing in math. We do "applied" math (lifeskills) and dh is impressed. He gives me feedback on where he sees some lacking (handwriting looks sloppy, falling off in piano lessons..).
I have proved to him that I'm keeping up with the basics for the state requirements. We are online with the standards of learning for son's grade. We've gone beyond in some things, others we keep at pace. We're not worried about checking the boxes except for legal reasons.
Every once in a while he asks to see the big picture, and the progress. So we have our parent/teacher conferences. It's this area I need to improve more this upcoming year. I want to make some more detailed plans, inspired by Jen and others. And I do think I'll give more of a checklist for my son to follow, so he can keep track, too.
Now I'm digressing. All I'm trying to say is that maybe you could discuss and really nail down what he needs to see.
It can work -- many people do boxed successfully. The graces you gain in being obedient will help you through the year.
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Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to  & ds1  '03 & ds2  '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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CrunchyMom
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Well, if checklists once worked for you, maybe go back to that in some form.
Have you seen this thread on scope and sequence? Maybe using Jen's lovely guide would be a beginning in showing dh what will be covered in the future grades so, in the midst of the every day chaos, he can see something concrete that points to your long term goals.
Also in that thread, Jen recommends Kathryn Stout's scope and sequence for science, but she offers the same thing for all the subjects, complete with checkboxes ready made. It is nice because you can check off stuff your child *knows* and not just the stuff you've formally studied as a guide for seeing if you child is on track without gaping holes for his grade level. Perhaps a resource like this would offer something concrete to "measure" against for dh's specific needs in this regard.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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CrunchyMom
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Oh, and Stout's books are much m ore affordable used on Amazon!
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Mackfam
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JennGM wrote:
Maggie wrote:
As our Lord would have it, I am married to Mr. Financial Analysis...whose job it is to "bench-mark" his company against other companies...so he wants something more tangible...and I am just not good at this "tangible" thing.
Sufficed it to say...I am a CMer with a Classical bend and somewhat un-schooly tendencies. How's that for eclectic! My poor, poor husband. Mr. Math married Mrs. Literature/Art/Music...
And now...I'm stuck...and really burned out...and really not looking forward to the next school year at all, regardless of what I do, boxed or not.
Yup. I digress... |
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That's not digressing...that's explaining the bigger picture.
>> snip <<
All I'm trying to say is that maybe you could discuss and really nail down what he needs to see.
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I understand your explanation, Maggie! Very well! I, too, am very artsy/creative/literary....married to an engineer! Over the years we've learned some tools to communicate and work together. My dh has had the benefit of seeing the children's education bloom, grow and deepen and greatly respects our philosophy and methods now. And I have learned to respect his desire for accountability and clearly defined expectations for the day. What has taken time was to learn how to communicate together so we could get to the same goal. Ideas for you:
** Start by sitting down and getting to a point that you can both identify a common goal for your children's education. Then stop and have a glass of wine together (or some other favorite relaxing activity). The reason for stopping after identifying your common educational goal is so that there is no temptation to start flogging the goal with ideas and possibly become defensive. Nope! Just see if you can identify a family educational vision. Expect his goals to include words like: prepared for college, meeting standardized testing measurements, socialized, opportunities to play with other children, normal ( ). Articulate your goals too, which could include things like: children receive a liberal education, fostering an atmosphere of learning in the home, open-ended opportunities for children to explore and create, a literary education, an education that meets the child where he/she is, an education AND plan which can bend to meet God's will in the present moment without creating a burden for the family.
** Spend some time praying about the educational vision you've just identified together. Ask your husband to pray about it as well. With God's grace, you can blend everything into one cohesive vision. This may take a little time and prayerful brainstorming to see how this could be done.
** Now that a family educational vision has been identified, spend another evening affirming each other's vision, and articulating a respect for the goals each of you have. Commit to supporting each other and growing/stretching in ways that may be needed in order to do that. Glass of wine encouraged but optional...and I'll explain why: you want to keep this positive, and you want helps that assist you both in setting an atmosphere of working together out of your love for each other to reach a common vision. My husband and I enjoy this over a glass of wine, or a beer - it is just a reminder that we're working together and that this time is not for arguing/bickering/disagreeing even though we're going to come at this from different angles! It is a time for conveying respect and in doing so, perhaps beginning to see how two visions can begin to become one, and acknowledging that the only way it's going to happen is through growth in virtue and self-discipline - WORK. (And by the way, opportunities to grow and stretch are going to come no matter what!! Regardless of boxed curriculum, DIY plans, total unschooling.)
** The next steps are going to begin to identify ways to mesh the two different visions. But before getting to this point it's really important that you both come at it with mutual respect and understanding for the other person's POV.
** Start to brainstorm different formats you can use to communicate progress and document learning skills to your husband.** Email a progress report summary at the end of each month.
** Brainstorm a set of goals together - goals he'd like to see met by mid-year. Make it a simple list. Give yourself permission to make it a crude-working list for now! Hand written on a clipboard is FINE! You can work on it and make it pretty later if your other tools are working, but that isn't needed. Just basic for now! Put your basic list on a pretty clipboard if it helps. 
** Communicate with him regularly to let him know how the kids are doing in meeting the goals he had set for mid-year.
** Identify records and formats that dh would like to see regularly. If you aren't good at coming up with something on your own, or you're overwhelmed at the thought, consult some of the Donna Young forms.
** Begin to think of record-keeping summaries in two ways:
(1) On the front end: goals to meet. This can look very different from family to family: table, spreadsheet, post-it notes on the fridge, bulleted list.
(2) On the back end: summaries of learning that has taken place and learning goals that have been met. You articulated this so well in how in reflecting on your year, in spite of the tumult and suffering, you could identify clear objectives that have been met. Find ways to communicate these regularly to your dh. Maggie,
It is my prayer that this might give you some ideas, some options for seeing that there is a way to work toward a common vision together, in spite of the fact that right now it seems you're both coming at this from two very different angles. If you both prayerfully decide that a boxed curriculum is the best thing for your family right now, then work it! You can certainly expect it to be work, too! Just because it's a boxed curriculum does not mean it will magically answer problems - it is going to bring with it a whole new set of issues that will require effort, growing and stretching - WORK! Whatever you decide, there is a big difference in approaching something together, on the same page, than in opposing corners. See if you can't find that common vision which gives you a point to work toward together. You have my prayers!
__________________
Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19 , ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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Martha
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Quote:
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Then it is time to over compensate and make priorities.
That's what I do. Seriously everyone thinks I'm incredibly organized, and I am, but it is not natural to me - it is 100% over compensating!
A pp already noted some ready made checklist type of options, a boxed curriculum would also give you ready made plans and materials. Not all "boxed" providers are pigeon holed to one grade level for everything. And even those that are, sometimes slowing down in one subject can be very decompressing for a burnt out mom. (For example, a child that places mostly in 4th grade except for math, which is 5th? Going ahead and just doing 4th grade math again can be a real load off. It's nice to relax sometimes!)
Does your dh have a particular subject or other issue that he thinks would benefit from a boxed plan? My dh said something similiar a few years ago and it turned out he was annoyed to have middle schoolers that didn't have some basic American history. They have learned lots of awesome history, but interests just weren't in USA. Once I got to the heart of it, that was easy to fix!
This year, I'm not doing "boxed" per say, but life is getting seriously insane chaotic around here and that's with me feeling like I get nothing done! I love planning and making elementary booklists and such. But this year? I just can't. But I need to know the youngers are set. So I am sticking to my Five in a Row guides. It's not boxed, but the lessons are mostly done and I have e books. All I need is to make a note of what I want to hit each week and buy a few things for crafts if necessary. Hey! Maybe Five in a Row would be a good medium ground for you? Very CMish but semi-planned out!
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Martha
mama to 7 boys & 4 girls
Yes, they're all ours!
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TxTrish
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Joined: Oct 23 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
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Posts: 321
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| Posted: July 10 2012 at 11:47am | IP Logged
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Hey Maggie - I thought it was you.
You made me laugh because you do know how I talk!
I know you are having to contend with a very strongly Seton/CLAA
community, and going against the flow is a challenge in and of itself.
You're in my prayers.
Hug Amanda and Maximillian for me!
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+JMJ+
Gabrielle20, Deavon18, Elizabeth12, Mary10, Greg8
and a grandson!
My Blog
"Duty before everything, even something holy"
St.Padre Pio
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Maggie
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Joined: Dec 01 2007
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Posts: 712
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| Posted: July 10 2012 at 1:08pm | IP Logged
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CrunchyMom wrote:
Well, if checklists once worked for you, maybe go back to that in some form.
Have you seen this thread on scope and sequence? Maybe using Jen's lovely guide would be a beginning in showing dh what will be covered in the future grades so, in the midst of the every day chaos, he can see something concrete that points to your long term goals.
Also in that thread, Jen recommends Kathryn Stout's scope and sequence for science, but she offers the same thing for all the subjects, complete with checkboxes ready made. It is nice because you can check off stuff your child *knows* and not just the stuff you've formally studied as a guide for seeing if you child is on track without gaping holes for his grade level. Perhaps a resource like this would offer something concrete to "measure" against for dh's specific needs in this regard. |
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Ok. I think I am missing something here.
I have NEVER sat down and written any long term goals...or short term, really.
I *tried* to get through books to the end last year...like "Faith and Life" for dd...failed at finishing that one...and failed at finishing RIght Start level B...been working on that for about 2 years. I love the concept of it...I just don't like doing it because it takes so long and dd just feels like she isn't making headway because she has been stuck in the same book forever.
And I think this is what is behind my dh's frustration...that we haven't *finished* the books.
I honestly can't tell if we are moving too slowly or not...because I have never taught a second-grader before...
From talking to my mom and other friends who are teachers, it seems that my children are on par...but I think my dh thinks I am relying too much on their natural intelligence...that at some point, if I don't develop a strong work ethic in them, they will fall off the curve and fail...and just not do anything.
Self-discipline is not something I really have myself...and so it can be very difficult for me to "do school" when we have been battling behavioral issues or health issues...I wish I could be more consistent.
And Martha nailed it on the head for me...I need to say "no" to outside things...but I just feel like saying "no" to play dates or outings is me saying no to life and relationships? I feel my kids know enough...but are my children called to know "more"...
At the same time, can this be accomplished while still allowing my children to *love* learning? To me, this is crucial.
I asked my dh this last night...because I feel like this *love* could be squelched, depending on the road we take. He does not think that will happen, based on my personality and how the kids are currently doing...and he thinks I am taking this waaaaaay to seriously...agonizing over me squelching love of learning because he asked me to consider a boxed curricula...
But I feel pressured in a sense...not from dh...but from me. At what point am I doing my children a disservice by not being self-disciplined or being too laxed with our routine?
Should I be challenging dd more rigorously? Sure, I could...but is that best for her? Or am I doing a disservice by prolonging this point of childhood?
Does that make sense?
And I feel like all this is riding on our decision here...which is insane, I know...but it's just how I feel...
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Wife to dh (12 years) Mama to dd (10) ds (8), dd (1), ds (nb) and to Philip Mary (5/26/09), Lucy Joy (12/6/09), and Margaret Mary (3/6/10) who entered Heaven before we had a chance to hold them.
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4Real Forums : Planning and Ordering our Days
Topic: DH wants me to do a boxed curriculum
