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Barb.b
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| Posted: Oct 19 2011 at 7:59am | IP Logged
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My ds is pre engineering - the 2 difficult classes are calculus and chemistry. He is getting A's in homework, quizzes and labs. . . but exams are a struggle (D's in first tests; there are 3 altogether in each class not including final). He needs a C in these classes. . .
Anyway- not looking for advice but anyone have freshman in college and want to list them here - and we can pray for each others kids! Boy - I pray for my ds hard (especially the times he is in the exams) - it would be nice to combine our prayers - I would love to pray for your dc too! Sign up in this post if interested!
"Where 2 are more are gathered..."
Barb
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SallyT
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| Posted: Oct 19 2011 at 8:28am | IP Logged
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What a great idea! My daughter, who's a freshman at UD, could use prayers. She's having a wonderful time, has made terrific friends, is working hard and doing well . . . except in one class, where the prof (I think he's actually a grad-student T.A.) just really seems out to lunch when it comes to teaching an intro-level class.
She's been to see him, been to see the tutor for that subject area, been to see her advisor, spends all her time studying for this class, and is barely squeaking by. Apparently this is true of about 3/4 of the class, so it's not just her. She did bring her last paper grade up by a letter grade and a half, and feels fairly okay about the midterm she just took, but the grading in this class has been so arbitrary -- she'll flunk one quiz, then get an A+ on the next, then flunk the next one, then make another A, with no idea how these grades happen or what to expect - that we've told her that if the midterm turns out to have gone badly, she should withdraw from the class. Going down to 12 hours would not be ideal, but it would be better than letting this one class make a black hole in her GPA.
Anyway, she calls home frequently, so we get the daily blow-by-blow of her adventures in this class. I've been praying hard for her! It would be great to offer up my "long-distance-it's-her-life-can't-do-anything-about-it" mama anxiety for all your children, too.
Again, fantastic idea, Barb. Thanks so much!
Sally
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Barb.b
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| Posted: Oct 19 2011 at 8:53am | IP Logged
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OH - YEA! Sally, adding your daughter to my prayers today! It is harder then I thought hearing struggles long distance. . . My ds also calls daily - I am sooo thankful that we have a strong relationship! In his calculus class - this past exam the professor said - the exam is the most difficult on he has made and the problems are nothing like the problems on homework or quizzes! UGH - so what would the point be of this exam but to get more "D" and "F" grades! Also, seems Calculus and chem exams are always about the same week - so both 1st and 2nd calculus tests ds has been sick with a cold (stress does increase one's chances of being sick). He is working so hard too - so its doubly frustrating that its not like he is slacking off or anything! Opps - rambling and babbling again!
Barb
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SallyT
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Oh, yeah, this does seem to be get-sick time, too. My daughter's been feeling crummy for five or six days -- though I tend to think that going to What-a-Burger with her friends until midnight has also not helped her mornings much.
Praying for your son, and all the other college students out there.
Sally
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Barb.b
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| Posted: Oct 20 2011 at 3:38pm | IP Logged
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Poor ds - got maybe a D on first calculus exam and probably failed this one. The frustrating part is he does very well on homework and quizzes. But the exams are completely different and only 12 questions - multiple choice - so they are either right or wrong! He is finally getting a tutor . He is not sure if he can even end up getting the required C he needs in this class (in order to get into the school of Engineering). He is too late to drop the class, going to talk to an advisor maybe to see what to do about next semesters classes - thinking why sign up for the 2nd calculus course if he doesn't think he will get the C he needs in this one, and if freshmen can change majors yet. . . . Not much mom can do . . . Also, he is hoping for a good grade on the next chemistry exam (needs a B) he was sick when he took exam 1 and didn't do so good. I
The other classes are fine - solid B's in engineering and communication.
Barb
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SallyT
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Praying. My daughter's in much the same boat. She had two midterms, one in this class she's struggled so much with, and one in Greek, where she's been doing fairly well. She spent all weekend studying for the struggle-class, and then got sick.
Her two midterms were Monday. She came away from the one she thought would be so hard thinking that it hadn't been nearly as bad as she'd anticipated -- hasn't gotten that one back yet, and this prof's grading has been so arbitrary that who knows. By the time that one was over, she was feeling really rotten, and then she had to go to her Greek exam. Greek went badly. Like, really badly. When she got her test back, her prof had written, "Ill?" across the top, so obviously he realizes she was off her game. I'm praying that she'll make herself go talk to him and say, "Yes, I really was sick." She's been good about going to see her professors, but I sensed when I talked to her yesterday that she was dragging her feet a bit. I don't know that he'll let her compensate for the bad grade in any way, but at least he'd be confirmed in thinking that she really is a conscientious student who had a bad day. She did say that he had told the class that grades on individual assignments and tests mattered less than that he could see mastery of Greek at a certain level by the end of the semester, and to date she's been a B student in his class, so I'm hoping it'll all turn out all right.
Barb, can he do a withdraw? Drop-add is long over, but generally a student can withdraw from a class, with a Withdraw/Passing or a Withdraw/Failing, at any point. My husband is a college professor, and he always loses a few students just after midterms -- he advises them to withdraw if there's no chance they can pass. At some point they have to make up the hours and/or the class in order to graduate, because it's too late to add another class or transfer to another section, but sometimes that's the best way out. Obviously not a really desirable, but . . .
It's tough when required classes go badly, though I'm sure God uses those struggles. My daughter went to UD wanting to be a classics major, but though she does all right in Greek overall, she doesn't like it enough to want to take more of it. So now she's thinking of what she might want to pursue instead. Meanwhile, having to work so hard for okay grades is an experience in humility. It's hard for me sometimes to sit on my hands a thousand miles away, but I can see how good all her experiences are for her (and how good it is for me to back off and watch how her life unfolds).
Prayers for your son!
Sally
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Barb.b
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So - the following is from the course web page. Also, after the tests they come up with "advisory letter grades" which are kind of like a curve (0-40 -F , . . . ) So, how on earth is a kid supposed figure how he is doing. Not sure how his numerical grade, the advisory letter grades and the points below all relate? Any experience with this type of grading:
"GRADES: Your letter grade for the course will be determined from your total semester score
which will be computed as follows:
Homework - 100 points
Quizzes - 50 points
Three midterm exams- 300 points
Final exam - 200 poins &nb sp;
Maximum possible semester score - 650"
Barb
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guitarnan
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| Posted: Oct 20 2011 at 5:42pm | IP Logged
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I would think that each midterm is 100 points total, so your percentage score on each midterm is the number of points you get. The final counts double, so you double the percentage score on that.
Then you could do math...your total points divided by 650 points equals x divided by 100 points and solve for x to find out your total score on a 100-point scale.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Barb.b
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| Posted: Oct 20 2011 at 5:52pm | IP Logged
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Thanks, nancy! I do get what you are saying! So, another thing - each exam seems to be graded on a curve - wondering how the curve works - I mean if on the curve a 50 is suddenly a D or even a C cause everyone did poorly - how does that now relate to the points. . . Is that 50 counted as 50 out of 100 still - that wouldn't make sense because the curve said it was now a C?
Barb
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Barb.b
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I have been wondering - is it possible for him to still get a C. He probably got under a 50% on exam 1 and under 50% 2 (even with extra points from a curve)? I wonder if with a tutor he is able to get a B on the third exam and a C on the final - will his getting almost all of the homewark and quiz points help (got all A's in homework and quizzes)?
Also, why do I keep judging my homeschooling him based on this one class! I mean - he could have gone to a "brick and mortar? school and still struggled in the calculus class engineering students take! I know - I am looking for sympathy I know - But anyone else wonder such a thing! Also, he is doing fine in other classes (B in Engineering, B in communications and C in chemistry so far). I really am struggling with this - did I do something wrong in homeschooling - how about my now 3rd and 8th graders. Sorry for dumping here - but I don't know many people right now I can go too (most of those in my family would say - see, homeschooling hurt - put the others in a "school".
Barb
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guitarnan
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| Posted: Oct 20 2011 at 7:32pm | IP Logged
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Probably not unless a C is a 60-63 or unless he gets an 80 on the 3rd midterm and a C is a 65. Normally a C is about a 75. He'd have to get an 80 or higher to even have a chance...and do something similar on the final.
It's not about homeschooling, though. My son really struggled with math at home (high school) and we found a good prof for him via RateMyProfessors.com and he's done well in College Algebra and Statistics with this professor. I'm sure my son would take calculus from this professor with no qualms, and do okay. It's not homeschooling. Often it's the way math is taught in college.
What this is really about is the archaic system of engineering studies in the US. Even my dad (B. S. Engineering from MIT, M. S. and Ph. D in electrical engineering from Caltech) admits that no one ever uses all the calculus they have to take as engineering pre-requisites. (My dad just retired, at 75. Never having used calculus in any of his engineering jobs...) No one uses all that chem, either, except in chemical engineering.
If your son is really and truly struggling, is it possible for him to withdraw (at the deadline, hoping he'll do better between now and then) and then try that class at community college this summer? If he does okay, then he could try Calc II next fall. I don't know how that lines up with the other engineering course requirements, of course - and that's an important thing to consider.
The pre-Engineering curriculum is a weed-out experience. It's meant to be.  This is not a reflection on you, your son or anyone else. It's just how things are set up. (It is also why my son did not even attempt to major in engineering...too much math.)
I am praying, Barb...and if you want to PM me your son's school name, I can take a look at the requirements and maybe help you figure out where he might want to go from here re: calculus. One of the things you don't know about me is that I write college profiles for a living...maybe I can help in a small way.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Barb.b
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Nancy, Your pm box is full! You are right about the weed our experience! At least his school lets you retake a class that you have a low grade or fail - the first will still be on your transcript but won't be used in figuring the required GPA for entrance in the school of Engineering!
Thanks, a friend just told me the same thing - its not about my homeschooling or my son! Just one of the tough classes. Who knows what the curve will be - the last test a 44% was a D and an 85% was an A.
Barb
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guitarnan
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Sorry for the full PM box. I will fix ASAP.
I called my dad to ask what to do. He suggests looking all possible alternatives...he says all engineering students struggle with something (his was chemistry), and that part of this weed-out process has to do with not only persistence but with willingness top try alternative approaches (tutoring, talking with professor and going to office hours, working with TA, summer/winter sessions). Basic calculus is fairly straightforward, Dad says (I say, yes, but that doesn't mean everyone "gets" it), and he encourages your son to talk with advisors, professors, etc. to figure out the best way to save his GPA AND keep him in contention for the engineering major. He also says, "Don't give up so early!"
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Barb.b
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| Posted: Oct 20 2011 at 10:48pm | IP Logged
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Thanks! Yes, Ds just emailed - he talked with his cousin (a senior at another college) she encouraged his to get a tutor - said that would help a lot!
I agree with not giving up! ANd first year calc is straight forward - except when the professor brags that his was the hardest test he has made (this it the head of the math department too) AND that the problems on the test are not at all like the ones they have been doing for homework or quizzes! YEs - they are weeding out big time!
Barb
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guitarnan
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| Posted: Oct 20 2011 at 11:42pm | IP Logged
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Tutor...he needz one...
And I'm not fond of profs who brag.
There's a website for that; I think it is RateMyProfessors.com. We have used it extensively, with excellent results.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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brabec7
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| Posted: Oct 21 2011 at 7:56am | IP Logged
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Barb,
I have been there but in a different way. My daughter went to the Catholic High School here in town. She got a 30 on her ACT. Every year she took at least three and sometimes five honors courses at her school. She scored mostly As but a few Bs. She is a sophmore at the moment and really she struggles with her irrational view that she should be getting no lower then a B in any class. In fact we became a bit irritated by all her As in high school. She is smart enough that she should have material that she can only get a C on. I do not know if this makes sense. But it is not homeschooling and it is not going to high school it is having to learn to function within a system that sometimes seems unfair or difficult or really challenging. I see it as a very gradual lesson in real life. In fact, to prove it is not a home school vs traditional school call the school and ask how many freshmen engineering students actually graduate with an engineering degree. I bet you would be surprised. This will show you that it is not uncommon for freshmen to drop out of engineering. The sophmore year is also a weed out year as well. The kids who are actually in engineering and not pre-engineering are usually very, very smart kids. They usually have high Act scores as well as high grades from traditional schools. Below is a link and an excerpt:
http://fie-conference.org/fie97/papers/1068.pdf
In other words, for every 100 entering engineering
students that start in a given entry year, 57 obtain an
engineering degree, and 43 leave engineering. Of these 43
that leave, at least 21 transfer to a different school within
Purdue University and obtain a degree, and 22 leave Purdue
without a degree.
It is so hard to be far away and have them experience such stress. But I will say that it will pass. I would encourage him to go talk to the professor. They will tell him how it works. They will offer him the guidance. My daughter finally went to talk to her professors in the classes that she was bombing and this was a big step in taking ownership of her education. It was a growing up moment.
I would also really enocurage your son to talk to the guidance department about dropping and what that means. It is sometimes better to see it to the end and retake the course then to drop out. Every school is different. He needs to find out how the school records a retake class. As far as taking a community college course, I would also ask the guidance department. My husband and I went to Purdue and they would allow community college courses but really if you are going into a major that has math as a core element then taking a community college course will only work for so long. Also it is not uncommon for the average grade to be a D in some of the upper engineering courses. I can not remember freshmen year if that was common.
Let me just add a thought about a professor who brags....it is a good thing that your son now knows that it was especially hard. That he could take a bit of comfort in knowing this... One thing that is very valuable is to ask students who have already had a particular class. Networking is what it is callled in the real world. If he could connect whith other pre-engineering students he might get a better feel for when these situations are coming. The tutoring department has students that have been there and done that. Even if he feels he does not need the help it is sometimes valuable to go in and just ask about a particular prof. while reviewing or tutoring. At least one student will give him an insight that could help.
So now he knows that this is how it can be. This is not the last prof to totally knock a student off his feet by making a hard test. So a good practice that my daughter now is willing to do is two weeks before a test make an appointment with the prof or go in during office hours. And ask how he should prepare for the test. Shoot, I would go in after the test and ask for suggestions on how to do better next time.
I will pray for you and your son. I know it is hard for them to take responsibility for their education. It is hard to have to have adult conversations with individuals they may be "afraid" of but that is one of the greatest life lessons. We use to tell our daughter that she has to want it bad enough to go out of her comfort zone. WE can not do this for her. She must.
Blessings to you!
Lisa
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SallyT
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Ha, Barb, I know what you mean, re that retrospective homeschooling anxiety. I had expected to heave a big sigh of relief, having launched the first one, and instead I find myself thinking, "If I'd only . . . "
But then I remember that I went to an excellent school and still floundered when I first got to college, and I know I was a million times more clueless than my daughter when it came to taking charge of my academic performance.
Also, you know that if a large percentage of the class is performing poorly, it's not necessarily about your child and his lack of preparation. In my daughter's case, the class she's having the most trouble with is philosophy, which really, given her background, she ought to do reasonably well in. Her best friend in the class is a girl she met on the Arete summer program last year, a good bright girl who went to conventional school, and they're pretty much neck-and-neck in trying to make it through the class. It is a tough life lesson, but she seems to be about as well-prepared as anyone else overall . . .
And yes, tutors. They're there for a reason. I'd been telling my daughter to go see the philosophy tutor, and she kept putting it off, but finally she swallowed her pride and did it, and the tutor was amazingly helpful in sorting out her argument for her paper and making sense of some of the reading. Made a huge difference.
Sally
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Barb.b
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So ladies - ds has been sick 2x - put on ammoxicillian the last time for sinus infection - didn't take all of his medicine (UGH) NOW I get an email this morning - that he feels sicker then ever and what should he take. I told him to get himself back to the health center on campus since he didn't finish his prescription he needs to tell them that! Kids - really - I knew he wouldn't take all of the amox.
Barb
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Angie Mc
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It is hard enough when a child is sick at home...but when a child sick away and you can't do much more than pray, WOW is that hard. And campus clinics can be so...I don't know. My dd was pretty ill a while back and before I knew what was going on, she had a chest xray and other testing that I don't know if I would have chosen for her or myself. But, she is 19 and learning about how to think quickly on your feet, how to ask the right questions, and how to follow treatment plans...even when all of that is very hard to do when you're sick!
Praying, Barb  .
Love,
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Barb.b
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Bumping up to pray for all the kids taking finals this week!!
Ds has one today, tomorrow and wednesday!
Barb
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4Real Forums : High School Years and Beyond
Topic: Moms of college freshmen prayer "group"
