| Author | |
marianne
Forum Pro
Joined: Feb 22 2006
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 300
|
| Posted: March 24 2011 at 11:22am | IP Logged
|
 |
|
Hi, everyone...I haven't posted in a while, but I read! We are currently expecting #7 in May, and I'm sorry to say that both my husband and I are more scared than excited at this point. My husband is a lifelong Catholic, pro-life, from a large family, ect....and actually said that he is dreading the arrival of our baby.  We are just so overwhelmed with the daily trials of taking care of 6 kids....two of whom are quite challenging, behavior wise. The kids are involved in activities, not much per child, but when you add everything together, we are always going somewhere. My husband makes a decent salary, but the kids are in Catholic school now, and it is putting stress on the budget.
All of this to say, that my husband is strongly considering a V after this baby is born. We've never used birth control, but he is just at the point where he KNOWS that he doesn't want any more babies, and as long as the BC doesn't end a pregnancy after conception, he doesn't see the big deal. I am in agreement that 7 will be more than we can handle, but I am not sure what the right thing to do is.
Are there some good articles out there on the church's teachings about this with some great commentary? I think anything with encouragement for the father who is responsible for taking care of these large families would be good for him to read, too. Thanks!
__________________
\
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
St. Ann
Forum All-Star
Joined: Oct 20 2006
Location: Germany
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2137
|
| Posted: March 24 2011 at 12:19pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Marianne,
First of all I want to wish you all the best with the last few weeks of your pregnancy.  I pray that your fears will be eased.
One of the best columns I have read on NFP and the Church's teachings have been Natural Family Planning Perspectives by Sara Fox Peterson, who also belongs to 4real. Scroll down a bit and you will find a list of 15 -20 articles on the subject. I found them helpful to read as an aid to converse with others on the subject.
I will keep you and your husband in my prayers.
__________________
Stephanie
Wife and mother to Hannah '96, Maria '99, Dorothea '01, Helena '03
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Mackfam
Board Moderator
Non Nobis
Joined: April 24 2006
Location: Alabama
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 14656
|
| Posted: March 24 2011 at 12:24pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Hi Marianne!
It's good to *see* you, and congratulations on your newest little blessing!
I have a few things for you to consider reading as others bring in articles and other reading material that explains the Church's beautiful and tender teaching on openness to life, especially as it may relate to contraception and the harmful effects it has on the body and the family. You are right to acknowledge that any surgery or form of birth control is outside of Church teaching. A recent thread brought up many of your same concerns and I though it would be a good place for you to start reading. From that thread:
Mackfam wrote:
CelesteMary wrote:
| I am also having a really hard time with the decision to get a tubiligation. My husband and I are getting overwhelmed and the "quick fix" sounds so welcoming, though the better side of me knows it's the enemy trying to get the best of our family. |
|
|
God bless you in your search for His plan, Celeste. You're right of course that the tubal, in addition to being outside of the Church's gentle plan to ensure that couples remain open to life, is a quick fix to your concerns and will likely only bring division within your family as its purpose is to close that which God created to be open. |
|
|
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church (emphasis mine):
Quote:
| 2366 Fecundity is a gift, an end of marriage, for conjugal love naturally tends to be fruitful. A child does not come from outside as something added on to the mutual love of the spouses, but springs from the very heart of that mutual giving, as its fruit and fulfillment. So the Church, which is "on the side of life,"151 teaches that "it is necessary that each and every marriage act remain ordered per se to the procreation of human life."152 "This particular doctrine, expounded on numerous occasions by the Magisterium, is based on the inseparable connection, established by God, which man on his own initiative may not break, between the unitive significance and the procreative significance which are both inherent to the marriage act."153 |
|
|
I also shared these resources on the thread I linked you, and wanted to drop them in here so you could link right through if you wanted to. Some of them speak to the practical brainstorming that others have shared that can be a tool that God uses to stretch and equip husband and wife in handling some of the practicals of large family life:
Mackfam wrote:
| There were a couple of recent threads on this topic I wanted to link and share with you since you might find some of the perspectives there helpful in your prayer life and in your practical considerations: Natural Family Planning, and Questions for Moms with Large Families. And one more that is so fantastic for brainstorming out the practicals of this question: Can we talk determining family size? (fantastic brainstorming ideas on this thread to bring to your husband and include in prayer.) |
|
|
I want to be clear, I understand that sometimes being open is an act of the will. It isn't always easy. Looking ahead...even a few short months to when your baby arrives can be crippling, and rightly so. Our Lord's rich grace isn't there in that moment yet, it's only right here, in the present moment, so you're imagining that (seemingly overwhelming) moment without the benefit of His grace. It's understandable that it would feel impossible. Stay right here, in the present moment. God's grace is here, and He loves you and your husband and your family so very much. He hears your prayers and your pleading!
As you begin reading and gathering the Church's clear teaching on this matter, may I suggest that a good and holy priest could be so valuable in these discussions. Each married couple and each marriage is so unique in their circumstances. The mysterious particulars of their marriage are best helped though good spiritual direction. Could I suggest contacting The Family Life Institute?
I am praying for you as you form your conscience and prayerfully follow this question through!!! 
__________________
Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19 , ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MaryM
Board Moderator
Joined: Feb 11 2005
Location: Colorado
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 13104
|
| Posted: March 24 2011 at 12:41pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Oh Marianne ...I can't believe your "last" little baby is 4 already!!!! Seems like such a short time ago I met you and that sweet little one at our conference. I will be praying for you & your husband and your newest baby that the addition and transition will be smoother and easier than you anticipate.
Getting to information, I seem to find the faith tracts from Catholic Answers and CUF to be the most helpful starting points. They are succinct enough that they can be read in a sitting yet thorough enough to give the basics. There are lots of cited sources in them for more reading as well. And I see there are already some other helpful resources posted.
Choose Life, That You and Your Children May Live: The Truth About Birth Control - Catholics United for the Faith
Birth Control - Catholic Answers
Contraception and Sterilization (Church Fathers) - Catholic Answers
So good to see you!
__________________
Mary M. in Denver
Our Domestic Church
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JodieLyn
Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 06 2006
Location: Oregon
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 12234
|
| Posted: March 24 2011 at 12:48pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
There's also this article by Janet Smith
Contraceptives, Why Not?
It's alot of overview on the whole idea of contraceptives.. but especially the later half of the article gets down to the more personal instead of the societal focus of the earlier parts.
But I do find that it's nice to revisit the whole topic.
And while I never "collected" the information. There is a lot of information out there on the hazards of sterilization.. both male and female. And it's not always (usually?) given for full disclosure by the medical profession. 
__________________
Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MNMommy
Forum Pro
Joined: Feb 24 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 150
|
| Posted: March 24 2011 at 11:32pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Just wanted to send some . We felt the exact same way with #5. We love him to pieces, but we know we are in over our heads. Our sanity and marriage are suffering. Birth control isn't an option so we are in abstinence limbo.
I need to send some more .
__________________
Jennifer
Tired mom to - 10yo dd, 7yo ds, 6yo ds, 4yo dd, 2yo ds
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
mathmama
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 07 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 771
|
| Posted: March 25 2011 at 7:15am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I know this isn't what you asked for and I certainly have no experience in what you are dealing with (I only have 3 and they aren't of age to make my life too busy), but, perhaps God is pushing you to reevaluate the activities your family is involved in. Of course, life with a family of 7+ children is going to be busy and I am sure you know that God wouldn't make sterilization your only way of making it work. With His Grace we can do anything, but sometimes we do need to think outside the box. Prayers for you and yours.
Beth
__________________
Beth, wife to Tom and mommy to 4 beautiful girls:
Therese 11/04
Anna Mary 6/07
Veronica 10/09
Theodora 11/12
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
marianne
Forum Pro
Joined: Feb 22 2006
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 300
|
| Posted: March 25 2011 at 1:46pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Thank you all so much! I really appreciate your support and understanding. Even though I am aware of church teaching, I am not sure how to handle the discussion with my husband and argue the case, without sounding like I don't appreciate the fact that he is really trying to look out for the welfare of the entire family. I have forwarded some of these to dh, so we'll see.
Thanks for the prayers, too! Hugs to you all - you are all so inspiring!
__________________
\
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Elena
Forum All-Star
Joined: Aug 13 2006
Location: Ohio
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 592
|
| Posted: March 26 2011 at 3:34pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I think a lot of your fears will disappear once the baby comes! Just looking over the ages of your kids, I think you are going to have a lot of enthusiastic helpers!
As someone in the older mom phase of life, let me just say that I LOVE seeing my older children especially my sons now, 21, 18, 15, 13 sitting together and laughing together. They truly enjoy each other's company and are a gift to one another. In ten years that is where you will be too! This time of busyness will go quickly so please don't make long- term decisions on short-term problems! Think instead on what these siblings will mean to each other in the decades to come.
I totally agree with the other writer who said maybe you should pull back on some of the activities. That made a big difference in my family life. It also helped a lot when my oldest started to drive. You are only three or four years from that!
Other ladies posted some wonderful links about the church's teaching. Kudos to them for the important links and information. It's important to note that artificial birth control, even surgical, is one of the few things the catechism calls intrinsically evil. If your husband does a careful Catholic study on the matter I'm sure he'll come to the same conclusion.
But if that doesn't convince him - this might!
Vasectomy side effects
Best wishes for a healthy pregnancy and new baby!
__________________
Elena
Wife to Peter, mom of many!
My Domestic Church
One Day at a Time
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Vanna
Forum Pro
Joined: May 09 2008
Location: Kansas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 331
|
| Posted: March 26 2011 at 4:08pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I have no idea what you are going through so it's hard for me to comment on this. I only have 2 children and they are 10 years apart. I have days where I feel overwhelmed with 2. I can't imagine what you are feeling.
I do want to say that I made a terrible decision over a year and a half ago. I had an edometrial ablation and a tubal ligation. This is irreversable. I thought that I was doing the right thing. I now realize that I made that decision out of depression and panic. I would now do ANYTHING to take that back but there is nothing that I can do now.
I think even when we think we know what the future holds for us, we cannot ever be sure. Only God knows...and we must trust Him. I don't wish on anyone the regret I live with everyday.
You are in my prayers.
__________________
Wife to K  Mommy to B (ds18) and G (ds8)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
marianne
Forum Pro
Joined: Feb 22 2006
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 300
|
| Posted: May 23 2011 at 4:24pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Updating: Our baby was born on 5/3, a GIRL we named Annemarie! I am in baby LOVE and I just can't believe how blessed I am to have her.
DH decided that neither of us should do anything permanent, although he is still not wanting any more babies. I am feeling re-inspired at the moment and suddenly I love the idea of maybe one more despite my old age! I don't want to be insensitive to my husband, though...he has a lot of responsibility here.
Thanks for all the prayers, if you think of it, I would love more prayer for a bit of PPD that I think is related to a difficult birth with unsupportive hospital staff, as well as the fact that little Annemarie very well could be my last. I can hardly look at her without getting tears in my eyes - both of gratitude and just general emotion about being overwhelmed. SO MANY EMOTIONS, as you all know, it's hard to put it into words.
__________________
\
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JodieLyn
Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 06 2006
Location: Oregon
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 12234
|
| Posted: May 23 2011 at 4:37pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Marianne, Congrats!! Be sure you're still taking your prenatals and get some extra B complex in as well. It'll help sooo much.
__________________
Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Mackfam
Board Moderator
Non Nobis
Joined: April 24 2006
Location: Alabama
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 14656
|
| Posted: May 23 2011 at 5:35pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Oh Marianne! Your update brought such a smile to my face! What a joy to read of little Annemarie!
You have been and will remain in my prayers!!
__________________
Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
hylabrook1
Forum Moderator
Joined: July 09 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5980
|
| Posted: May 23 2011 at 7:11pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Congratulations, Marianne! There is nothing like falling in love with a beautiful new baby!
You have my prayers as you and your family get to know your sweetie and for you and your husband.
Peace,
Nancy
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
SuzanneG
Forum Moderator
Joined: June 17 2006
Location: Idaho
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5465
|
| Posted: May 23 2011 at 7:19pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Congratulations, Marianne! I'm so happy for you!
I'll keep you and your dh in my prayers!
__________________
Suzanne in ID
Wife to Pete
Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
guitarnan
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: Maryland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10883
|
| Posted: May 23 2011 at 9:18pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
What joyful news! Congratulations!
__________________
Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Erin
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 23 2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5814
|
| Posted: May 23 2011 at 10:13pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Marianne
Congratulations 
__________________
Erin
Faith Filled Days
Seven Little Australians
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Erica Sanchez
Forum All-Star
Joined: March 05 2005
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1538
|
| Posted: May 24 2011 at 2:02am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I am so happy for you, Marianne!! This is really beautiful news!
I remember finding out I was pregnant with baby #7 and I am ashamed to share that I was so mad. I have this vivid memory of me sitting at my own table with my dear friends who were over for bible study just going on and on questioning how could God do this (#6 and #7 would be close together and #6 was a little pistol even as an infant) and just being mad and grumpy. Oh my goodness. Turns out this baby was sooooooo sweet, sooooooo easy....still is.
Baby # 8 came even sooner than #7 and I just had to laugh at that point. There may have been a few tears. But that kid has brought so much love to our family. You can't imagine your life before.
It has been hard to be sure, but I know you already realize there is so much joy and love and grace that comes with a new baby. Enjoy this time and try not to think about the future.
I am trying to master the Creighton method of NFP and am generally very happy with it. What are your experiences with NFP? Could that be something your husband would do?
Oh, maybe your husband would find some interesting and helpful information here - St. Jospeh's Covenant Keepers (Steve Wood)
God bless you and your new, sweet baby girl!!!
__________________
Have a beautiful and fun day!
Erica in San Diego
(dh)Cash, Emily, Grace, Nicholas, Isabella, Annie, Luke, Max, Peter, 2 little souls ++, and sweet Rose who is legally ours!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
DominaCaeli
Forum All-Star
Joined: April 24 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3711
|
| Posted: May 24 2011 at 11:33am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Congrats, Marianne!! Loved reading your update. You and your husband will be in my prayers.
__________________
Blessings,
Celeste
Joyous Lessons
Mommy to six: three boys (8, 4, newborn) and four girls (7, 5, 2, and 1)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MaryM
Board Moderator
Joined: Feb 11 2005
Location: Colorado
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 13104
|
| Posted: May 24 2011 at 11:50am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Congratulations, Marianne!!
__________________
Mary M. in Denver
Our Domestic Church
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: links on birth control *update*
