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Angel
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| Posted: March 18 2011 at 1:19pm | IP Logged
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I recently heard Susan Wise Bauer speak about the college application process and high school at a homeschool convention. (Here are her workshop notes, including her son's transcript.) In this talk, and in another later on, she talked about allowing -- or encouraging -- the high school student to specialize. "The Specialist" is a section in her book (if you've read it), but her emphasis in these talks was a little different. In the book, she seems to advocate for well-roundedness, then specialization... everybody should be doing the same Great Books curriculum, etc. In these talks, what she said was something along the lines of, "It can be scary to allow your child *not* to complete a 'requirement' for college admission," but in her experience (apparently her mother also did this with her and her brother), allowing the high school student to focus on interests and talents rather than hitting all the requirements proved to be very beneficial. Her son got into 10 of 11 colleges to which he applied, so it apparently didn't hurt!
I found all of this rather comforting, since this is sort of the approach I hope I have the guts to use with my kids. I don't want to change the way we homeschool just to fit in the boxes on application! On the other hand... I do not want to cause grief and ruin later on because we didn't do chemistry or American history (or whatever)!
So, as we start out, and I'm thinking about my 14 yo's new year, which we'll start in July, I am wondering how to make this all work. There are only so many hours in the day, and what I have heard thus far is that he might want to do 3 languages, we're only halfway through algebra I, American history is NOT his favorite, but he loves history in general, he wants to do physics (conceptual at this point), art history seems to be intriguing, he wants to learn programming (well, game design; I found a course), he needs to work on expository writing but he wants to write fiction, too... well, the list could go on. It's sort of overwhelming to me, but then I look at the list of subjects Charlotte Mason's students took, and... at 12 they were doing 4 or 5 languages!
Anyway, I wonder if we could discuss the practicalities of guiding the high school student and putting together a high school year that both reflects and facilitates personal interests and talents, but also doesn't cut off future options.
How much specialization do you allow or encourage? Or do you believe well-roundedness is the way to go? Do you think that "deep and wide" is necessarily opposed to specialization?
And then, how do you put this into terms of a day, a week, a year, a four year plan? (Or maybe the 4 year plan has to be really skeletonized?)
I guess I'm looking for a discussion of a non-traditional high school here. Probably the topic is a little too big, and I'm not even sure how to put it into words. Just wondering what y'all are doing with your high schoolers, especially those of you who are not going a traditional, textbook-y route. 
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Angela
Mom to 9, 7 boys and 2 girls
Three Plus Two
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guitarnan
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| Posted: March 18 2011 at 1:39pm | IP Logged
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I think we are going to end up taking this approach with my dd, who is definitely gifted in the performing arts but is also very interested in science...and all things Japanese.
Four years of English/comp/literature is mandatory in my state, as is math during the senior year. Biology is also required.
The universities in my state all want as much math as possible and at least some physical science, as well as three years of social studies and a couple of years of foreign language (bet they will be surprised to see Japanese on my dd's application!).
This means that we will have to spend most of the late morning to late afternoon time at home on academics, then head out to music/dance classes in the late afternoon and evening. (We do this now, and dd sleeps in almost every day; for us this is more effective than eating fast food all the time and getting her in bed early. It's unconventional, but works for us.)
The hard part will be co-op Fridays; she won't be able to come home and kick back. Math will still be waiting.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Erin
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| Posted: March 18 2011 at 4:58pm | IP Logged
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Angela
I have my bigger goal; that all my children will graduate with solid basic maths skills, and be proficient in English ie. be able to communicate well both in the written and the verbal. Of course I want them to be 'thinkers'. Beyond that anything else is an aid, to achieve that goal.
So my 12th grader for example has set most of her work, with an extra required by me, I've required her to do Literature anaylsis and Formal essay writing this year. Tying back in with my goal.
Recently my highschoolers wished to study computers so they have undertaken this themselves with minimal direction and requirements.
So short answer, I am very much in favour of depth, but if a child isn't showing an interest then I'll provide width. I do in the younger highschool years (grades 7-12 here) try to expose them to a sampling of width. for example I do require one geography text to be covered at some stage during grades 7-12.
Now I'm not sure that I am sounding coherent, brain is mush.
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Erin
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Martha
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| Posted: March 18 2011 at 6:58pm | IP Logged
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To me this is part of a well rounded or balanced education.
It's a bit of a tight rope too. :)
I have requirements for graduation. But outside those? I try to give them some freedom to either pursue those areas more in depth or to completely go outside the norm.
Mostly our greatest frustration is the cost involved.
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Martha
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Laureen
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| Posted: March 18 2011 at 7:09pm | IP Logged
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Sorry, Erin, but Brain Is Mush is MY line!
With three graduated, and a rising senior, my main thought is that it will vary child to child. I agree completely with Erin that I favor depth, but sometimes we opt for width.
Many years ago at a NACHE Conference, Laura Berquist spoke about approaching the high school years pragmatically, and recognizing that as they delve deeply into their strongest interests, there must be a corresponding lightening of the load in other areas.
Susan Wise Bauer has expressed the same theme in her high school workshops, long before her book, so do think that some of her experience is first-hand, and some comes from teaching college freshmen who haven't had the blessing and flexibility of learning at home.
A second thought is that colleges don't expect homeschooled students to fit into the "boxes" that average students fill. The flexibility of admissions officers amazed me, and even shifted from the 2002 time-frame to 2008/9.
Try to take comfort in knowing that if God is leading you in a specific direction for your child, it's for a good reason. 
Hopefully there will be time to revisit this in the next few days.
Blessings,
Laureen in Virginia
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guitarnan
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| Posted: March 18 2011 at 7:17pm | IP Logged
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That's true, Martha - some of the resources I would like to use for high school are not inexpensive. Dd is my last child, so I'm in a different position than if I had a larger family, but I am still hesitating over $195 for one class, and similar decisions. (My son's community college classes are $264 each - you can see why I think $195 is expensive for a high school class online.)
Back to the original question - I think some of the "specialization" part of this process is actually one of "branding" or "packaging." We've all done this for state reviews, etc. - a trip to the park for nature study is science (and maybe photography, or writing, too!); a home-cooked Japanese meal, made by the student, is culture studies for either Japanese language, history or geography...we have to help our high schoolers think about how to "brand" themselves for each college they might wish to attend.
I think good record-keeping is essential - knowing which creative writing projects have been completed, for example - and finding ways to integrate some of these specialized interests across the curriculum is helpful, too. (Going along with my Japanese example - Asian history, World War II, the recent disasters in Japan - they are all part of Social Studies as well as Japanese studies. You can allocate the work between these two subject areas in almost any way you please. Origami, block printing and kite making are art and Japanese studies. Etc.)
It's not cast in stone until you need to create transcripts for college applications, so there is still time to play with things and tweak ideas...
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Martha
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| Posted: March 18 2011 at 7:35pm | IP Logged
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Oh I agree about the record keeping importance.
One, it helps keep ME on track for what I've planned. I have a list of books and a general idea of what I want to cover. When the kid finishes a section, I can look at my records to see what is next.
Two, my memory stinks! LOL. Seriously, I've already forgotten half of THIS year, don't even ask me about last year. Updating their lesson planners at the end of every week is a God send later. All those cool activities, projects, trips, books - is there when I need it.
Three, things start to crop up in high school. For example, my second born informed me he wants to apply for NASA's online learning community. I have to send them a current spring transcript including GPA as part of the application. Thankfully, I just need to update what I have or I'd really be spazzing out. Once you hit high school, you just never know when you need to use a transcript, GPA, course list, or work sample. It is not just for college after graduation.
ETA: HA! I had to change GPS to GPA. What I wouldn't give for a high school GPS!
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Martha
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guitarnan
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| Posted: March 18 2011 at 7:52pm | IP Logged
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LOL! Wouldn't that be nice...just punch in your child's latest learning goals and objectives... 
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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martinas6
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| Posted: March 18 2011 at 8:00pm | IP Logged
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Great thread. I have a question sorta along these lines. I've noticed on several scholarship application websites that volunteering in the community is mentioned. What sort of volunteering would be good for highschoolers? how many hours? do they go weekly or monthly? We've done projects that are faith based but what kind of secular activities would shine on a transcript?
so much to think about, so much to figure out...too little time 
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Martha
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| Posted: March 18 2011 at 8:16pm | IP Logged
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Idk that there is a set ideal. I think the purpose of extracurricular and volunteering or whatever else on the application is to paint a picture of who that individual student is.
We don't do much formal volunteering. Meals taken here and there, cleaning this or that, helping whatever.
To me, I would just ask the kid what they want to do and keep an eye out for opportunities.
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Martha
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guitarnan
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| Posted: March 18 2011 at 8:21pm | IP Logged
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My son did all his volunteer hours through Boy Scouts. Since Scouting is nationally recognized, this was easy to document and explain. (Most of the hours were on church-related projects, like setting up the life-sized Nativity scene, or helping with friends' Eagle Scout projects.)
With dd, her volunteering falls into three categories: Church (music, etc.), animals (SPCA Walk for the Animals fundraiser, pet food drives, etc.) and dance (dancing at senior centers, community events, charity fundraisers, and so on).
I don't think church volunteering should go unreported on college apps - think of all the things that go on in our communities that would fade away without the involvement of our churches, Catholic and otherwise.
Here are some ideas for volunteering that teens might wish to consider:
Library (sorting/shelving, helping with summer reading programs - our library system would fall apart without volunteers)
Animal shelters (some require parents to volunteer, too - best to check first)
After-school programs and family shelters (tutoring, help with activities, making food)
Senior centers (reading aloud, general companionship and smiles, playing piano or other instruments for entertainment)
I'm sure there are other great ideas out there.
I don't think it has to be a huge time commitment, either, just a steady one that can be documented.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: March 18 2011 at 10:46pm | IP Logged
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No surprise, I'm sure, that I have been pondering the same sorts of things for my ds.
Since we've never been ones to squeeze ourselves into someone else's mold, we've naturally been balking at trying to confine/limit/conform our studies to the traditional high school sequence.
Ds has always been one to follow his passions (intellectually speaking)and run with them further than I would ever expect. I think it one of his greatest strengths.
He also loves to read and discuss great books.
It's an interesting combination, I think.
And I think this past year we've been very focused on the one aspect (books) while ignoring the other (making/doing)in an effort to be more conformist. Not sure this was the best move.
Ideally I'd love for ds to get back to his love for making/inventing/tinkering, building, etc. while still diving deep into great books, in some sort of marriage of CM and unschooling.
I'm just starting to visualize how this will look in practice, as well as on a transcript,so I'd like to come back to this discussion when I've got it more fleshed out.
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Theresa
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: March 18 2011 at 10:54pm | IP Logged
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Re: volunteerism.
In addition to Boy Scouts and all that they do, my ds has volunteered at the Raptor rehab center, a salmon hatchery, and a science center. Work involved everything from cleaning big fish tanks,building perches, painting, basic maintenence, to helping with science classes, collecting specimens for the touch tanks, and aiding scientists in hatchery work (counting/weighing salmon fry, etc.).
He loved every bit of it and learned so much just being around these dedicated professionals.
So, I'd encourage you to think outside the box a little when looking for opportunities. There might be something out there that really matches your kid's interests.
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Theresa
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guitarnan
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| Posted: March 18 2011 at 11:02pm | IP Logged
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So true, Theresa! One of my daughter's friends volunteers with a group that monitors streams that feed into the Chesapeake Bay; she takes water samples and ferries them to the appropriate scientists, then helps chart the testing results. This young lady is also a teen volunteer at a local living history museum and archaeological site - she spends many, many weekend hours playing colonial games while wearing itchy scratchy garb. Other friends volunteer at local horse stables - Maryland has many.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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4Real Forums : High School Years and Beyond
Topic: the specialist-planning years and days
