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Donna
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| Posted: March 17 2006 at 9:23am | IP Logged
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Jackson, 13, is so discouraged. I just gave him a quiz on how to write a business letter in cursive. His handwriting has been very slow going, but it's his spelling that has him sooo upset. After he finished the letter, he ran into the bathroom crying because he couldn't spell so many of the words. I guess I'm looking for some suggestions and advice...or any words of comfort  . Jackson has always been very good at math. His reading took forever to grasp and he still struggles with it. So, I wonder if he will just always struggle with spelling, or will it eventually come?
I tried to tell him that I read that Einstein was a poor speller. Not sure if that helped any.
Any words?
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alicegunther
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| Posted: March 17 2006 at 10:56am | IP Logged
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I attended a CM seminar conducted by Penny Gardner, and she suggested an approach to spelling that made sense to me. She called it "couch spelling."
So much of spelling is a visual memory of the way a word should look. She trained her children to read a page in any book, but then expect her to ask for the spelling of any word on the page. It reminded me of a spelling "narration." Little by little, they developed the skill good spellers seem to have naturally--the ability to take a mental note of the way different words ought to look.
It might be worth a try!
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: March 17 2006 at 11:10am | IP Logged
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Some folks in educational circles believe that if a child doesn't spell well by middle school, then that child will just never be a good speller. I'm not sure if I believe that or not, but I do know that we all have our talents and our challenges and spelling just may be your ds challenge. Why not offer him the use of a dictionary or electronic speller for his writing assignments (teens tend to love the little gadgets)? Just looking up the words as he writes will give him reinforcement of the correct spellings. After he looks up a word a few times, he may learn it.
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Sarah
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| Posted: March 17 2006 at 11:24am | IP Logged
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I've heard that women are better spellers than men. My dh is one of the most brilliant men I know. A physician. Some people have called him a genius. He can't spell well at all. I mean it--he is so smart! And his handwriting--  !
Spelling and handwriting don't measure intelligence. Tell him that. He should still plug away at it, but remind him of that.
Maybe you could sneak in a few compliments here and there of subjects he does well at. In the end, who cares if he can't write cursive? My reason for teaching cursive is so that my children could read cursive if needed, since some of the letters are different and that's a life skill they need.
My father writes in all caps! My husband prints (or something similar ) and I do a legible cursive-printing mix.
I would suggest not having him write spelling words in cursive since combining two difficult skills may overload him  . There is nothing wrong with him printing a letter or spelling words, then working on cursive as a separate skill.
He needs some success right now  . Supply some fail-proof lessons to boost confidence!
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ShawnaB
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| Posted: March 17 2006 at 11:45am | IP Logged
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I am wondering if poor handwriting is a pre-requisite for medical school?? And is there a connection between scientific brilliance and bad handwriting? I'm always afraid that the pharmacist will misread my prescription!
Anyway, I think these are such good insights. Just one more thought...how do we define a "good" speller? Does it mean that a student can write most words correctly from memory? Or does it mean that one can use whatever tools necessary compose a piece of writing so that the words are all spelled correctly, and so that a reader can understand? I do not consider myself a good speller, but I can produce writing that is error free, if I take the time to use the appropriate tools. If I have to rely soley on memory, well, I'm sunk. (My posts on this board being a great example of the latter...)
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Lissa
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| Posted: March 17 2006 at 12:14pm | IP Logged
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Re handwriting--
My husband is another non-cursive guy. He writes in all caps, except for his signature which is an illegible cursive scrawl. I'm with Sarah, it's more important to be able to read cursive than to write it.
I've mentioned this in other threads, but I personally HATE to write by hand. And I don't use the word hate lightly...It makes my wrist ache. All my life I wanted to be a writer but I could never get more than a few paragraphs of a story down before fatigue discouraged me. I must have a very poor pen-grip. Anyway, it wasn't until I was given a typewriter in high school that my writing really took off--and much more so when I got a computer in college. I know without a doubt that I would never have written ONE novel, let alone ten, if I'd had to do it all by hand.
So I don't push handwriting much. My thinking is: important skill to learn, but perfection not required, and too much drill is unproductive.
Re the spelling woes, I agree with the person who said above that perhaps combing writing and spelling might be too much of a one-two punch right now. Maybe some spelling-related games would be a fun diversion? Scrabble, Boggle, etc. And perhaps a computer keyboarding/typing program? Lots of incidental spelling occurs in the course of typing lessons. My kids like to type in Word with the spellcheck setting that puts a squiggly red line under misspelled words--they can go back and change the spelling until the line disappears they know they have it right.
We've also had fun periodically "playing" one-room-schoolhouse like in Little House or Understood Betsy, where all the spelling instruction is oral. Teacher calls on child to stand up and spell a word. Now, it's entirely possible the reason this has been such a big hit with my girls over the years is because they get to wear bonnets during the game (and I have to answer to Miss Beadle, LOL), but I do think there's a great deal to be said for the process of oral spelling drill vs. written spelling drill. You're separating out just the one skill at a time.
They have also enjoyed using a blackboard or markerboard for spelling games.
(But the truth is, we've done only the teensiest amount of formal spelling drill--mostly it's just informal corrections in things they write for fun.)
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Angie Mc
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| Posted: March 17 2006 at 12:32pm | IP Logged
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Love this tread. Thanks all.
Prayers coming for Jackson and mom. I'm right behind you, Donna, with my 10yo ds.
Love,
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Taffy
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| Posted: March 17 2006 at 1:28pm | IP Logged
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Donna,
You've gotten lots of encouraging notes to pass on to your son and they're all true - spelling is very visual and some very smart people are terrible spellers.
I was thinking that maybe something like my email program would help. It has a continuous spell-checker. Whenever a word is typed that is spelled incorrectly, it is underlined in red. My email program came with the computer and I'm not sure of word processing programs with this ability...
I just wondered if maybe you could do studied dictation exercises on the computer with such a program where he could correct his spelling as he types?
Just an idea...
Liz
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Willa
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| Posted: March 17 2006 at 3:32pm | IP Logged
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I'm thinking that most people nowadays will use a computer word processor to write business letters. It makes things easier both for the letter-writer AND for the recipient, who doesn't have to plod through someone else's cursive.
About the spelling as related to composition... I think it's important to teach the difference between a first draft and a second one. Spelling doesn't matter as much in a "first take". THe main thing is getting the thoughts down clearly and logically. I have a brilliant husband (computer science) who's not too great at spelling and he always uses his spellcheck and/or asks me to proofread before he sends off any document. They call asking for help "peer revision" in schools nowadays and teach it as part of the writing process.
If learning to write a business letter in cursive was a necessity, perhaps you could have him write a first draft, then proofread it with the help of siblings or parents, then copy out the final version.
I was blessed with 3 good spellers for my first three kids, and then 2 more who lack confidence in their spelling ability and who do not spell correctly by instinct. I feel the main goal for them is learning some confidence and some strategies for self-checking.
Excellent spelling seems like an artifact to me -- not really related to intelligence OR to time spent on "spelling lessons". But strategies for discerning and correcting your errors can be taught, as Shawna said -- I think the test of a "good speller" is someone whose final product is reasonably error-free.
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ALmom
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| Posted: March 17 2006 at 8:30pm | IP Logged
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Our 11 yo has horrible spelling. Our 13 yo did when she was about 10. We did an intense spelling program for the now 14 yo sometime around 11 and have just started the same one for our current 11 yo. Both these dc are very bright, both struggled with reading initially and both had vision problems.
Most spelling programs are basically visual memory skills - but if your dc just did not develop visual memory at the average pace, then that can make the skill much more difficult. We spent some time correcting the vision problems, and then doing some work with visual memory (fun computer games, etc. recommended by our vision therapist). Our dd mentioned above is now the best speller in our house. We are still working on it with our son - but he is still dealing with vision problems (suppression in particular) and it may be slower going with him. However, his spelling is so bad that spell checker won't even help him.
I think a certain reasonable level of spelling is a necessity in order to communicate effectively. I don't mean everyone has to be spelling bee material, but it makes sense to spell the most frequently used words correctly. The SAT essay is written. If the dc cannot spell reasonably well, then no one knows what he/she is trying to say and no matter how wonderful the ideas, they will not come across. What about the note or memo that must be jotted on the run. What about the essays that they must write in college in class (no computer with spell check available).
I do think that most of the programs in spelling do not work well for a child with visual memory difficulties. A list of words just doesn't hack it for them. These children need something that helps them reason to the whys. We have used Writing Road to Reading (highly modified) to teach just spelling to these older children. I think some other moms have mentioned another program (AVKO) that might be more relevent for the learner that struggles with visual memory.
Janet
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Donna
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| Posted: March 18 2006 at 6:13am | IP Logged
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Thank you, ladies, for all your thoughts, ideas, and encouragement. It really does help.
Jackson has been using the Phonetic Zoo for several years, and has really come a long way with his spelling. It just seems that some words will never stick....even the simplest of words. I did tell him yesterday that we all have different gifts and that some people will just never be great spellers. He's worried that he won't be successful in life. I asked him if he thought his dad was successful...great job, awesome family. He said, "Yeah." Then I explained to him that his dad has struggled with spelling all his life and that I, too, proofread much of his correspondence. I think that all helped. Jackson compares himself to the other kids when we are doing our school work. He listened to Aaron, 7, spelling words yesterday and I think it made Jack feel so bad. Anyway, I'll continue to encourage him to see his gifts and try some of the suggestions above. Thanks, again !!!
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Donna
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Jason, Stevie, Marie, Jackson, Clara, and Aaron
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teachingmom
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Hi Donna,
Here is a link to a post I made on the Sequential Spelling program from AVKO. I really like it and think it's great for naturally poor spellers. My spelling-challenged dd just got all but one correct in the latest review test. It's really sinking in!
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MaryM
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| Posted: March 18 2006 at 8:03pm | IP Logged
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A friend of mine said there are only two kinds of spellers, natural spellers and those that rely on Spell Check! 
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Erin
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Donna,
This year after trying various spelling methods- my children are not good spellers, we are finally making some progress. We have stopped spelling and changed to daily dictation. Finally I can see spelling improvements in their writings.
Poor Jackson, sounds like my 12yr old only she hides under her bed covers. Sure is hard sometimes, hang in there.
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Caroline
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| Posted: March 22 2006 at 10:19am | IP Logged
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Poor Jackson. I agree that there are people who spell naturally and easily and those who don't. My husband is an electrical engineer and isn't a great speller. He uses spell check a lot! Tell Jackson to hang in there!
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Topic: My son is so discouraged
