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Courtney
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You'd think I'd be better at responding to the socialization questions by now, but they still frustrate me! I spoke with a neighbor earlier who has 2 dc the same age as mine. THey go to the local public school and are involved in afterschool activities about 4 days a week. I was telling her that my kids didn't want to sign up for the homeschool pe again b/c they thought it was too easy (there were several kids younger than 6 in it). She said in a shocked voice,"Don't they miss not having ANY friends?" She then went on to say she feels guilty when her kids aren't available to play with mine b/c she knows mine "really" want to play.
I responded by saying my kids go to pe to play the games, etc. THey like the kids there, but would rather do a sport they have to work harder at. I also mentioned that I believe "socialization" via traditional schooling is overrated. I think I tend to not say much b/c I don't want to offend those who believe so wholeheartedly in it. However, I did tell her that part of our decision in homeschooling was to simplify our lives. She went on and on about how she's burned out with activities, volunteering at school, etc.
After getting off the phone with her, I casually asked my 8 yo dd if she misses not being in a classroom setting. She said no. I asked her is she'd like to be in a class with 20-25 other kids, girls and boys. She said no.
How do you answer these questions without coming off as self-righteous? I believe each family chooses what is best for them. I feel many times from this particular woman that she thinks I'm doing my kids a big disservice. On the other hand, I wouldn't want my life to look like hers, so I can't expect her to want mine. Is any of this making sense? Any better responses to the socialization questions? 
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Courtney in Texas
Wife to Mike since 3/94 
Mom to Candace 10/97 ,Christopher 4/00 and Connor 11/11
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PDyer
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| Posted: March 03 2006 at 1:02pm | IP Logged
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Courtney wrote:
| I believe each family chooses what is best for them. I feel many times from this particular woman that she thinks I'm doing my kids a big disservice. |
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Thank you for posting my thoughts. I've been encountering so much negativity about homeschooling lately I'm afraid I've allowed it to wear away much of my confidence. It doesn't help that I've been having what may be an overactive thyroid (blood tests done yesterday), leading to some general anxiety.  I've been seriously considering whether God has been trying to use other people and my health to show me homeschooling really isn't what our family should be doing right now, but my husband is emphatically saying, "NO!".
I look forward to further responses on this thread.
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Patty
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Rachel May
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I've saved a hardcopy of this article by Gregory Popcak because I knew this would be a topic that would come up again and again. I found it very helpful.
I think (and he mentions) that "socializing" and "socialization" get used interchangeably. However I tend to think of one as just time spent with people you enjoy while doing activities you enjoy and the other as knowing how to behave appropriately when you interact with others no matter who they are or what the situation is. That being the case, I think the concentrated home training of behavior benefits them in the early years. For me, that sort of response gives them something to think about and is less threatening since it is removed from the personal cases of "my kids" and "your kids."
The benefits of training behavior away from a crowd were brought home today when the piano teacher's daughter had her monthly half day off. My boys, who are the same age as she is, wait and wait for this day since they get to play with her for 1/2 hour while they wait for their lessons.
I noticed that my kids tried to engage her in activities they had brought, conversation, and games that she had with her. Her response was sadly rude. She mostly would not look at them or respond to them and in general acted as it she were "better" somehow. I don't know enough regular school children to know if this little girl was typical, but comparing her behavior to that of the other homeschooled children we know (especially most recently Mary Chris's and Irene's), I MUCH prefer the child NOT "socialized" in the "normal" way.
I hasten to add I don't think my kids are perfect. But I did feel today that their behavior was of the kind more likely to make and keep friends if that is what non-homeschoolers are so worried about.
Just my 2 cents!
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Rachel
Thomas and Anthony (10), Maria (8), Charles (6), Cecilia (5), James (3), and Joseph (1)
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stefoodie
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well, most people who try to engage me in this kind of discussion have already decided i'm either self-righteous or crazy even before they've asked the question, so it doesn't really matter what i say. i've *rarely* talked to anyone, long or short conversation, where they eventually nodded their heads and said, "i've never thought of it that way." sometimes i just say, "really? i think my child is doing great, what do you think?" or "well, she's friends with your daughter, what does your daughter say about her?" at which point they usually fall all over themselves pointing out to me how wonderful my kid is LOL, pretty much proving that my kid doesn't need "socialization".
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Marybeth
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I get pushed all the time to have my ds in school next year. He was in preschool this year and loved it. We have decided he will be home for kindergarten. I don't really know why people seem so concerned about my ds when their own children need their attention! 
It seems to be the more a child is shy and reserved the more relatives and other parents want to help you "fix the problem". I am half tempted not to go to any relatives house for Easter b/c I can't stand another holiday with "comments" about ds. ugh!!!
I think the huge push with socialization starts at birth. All the daycare kiddies need to be good and not mind separating from their Moms in the morning and you have to be in school at 2 in our area and jump from the mini van to run and embrace your teacher. Why is it suddenly unacceptable to enjoy your Mom and want to be with her?
I'm not sure what the answer to the questions are but am wondering if maybe we are making people uncomfortable by going against the norm...just my 2 cents.
Didn't mean to ramble on....this is a hot button topic for me!! 
Marybeth
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lapazfarm
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Marybeth, I think you've hit it on the head. I also think that we make others uncomfortable. I think some parents wrongly see homeschoolers as somehow a living reprimand to their own parenting decisions. We make them feel guilty and therefore they are on the defensive. And Stef, I also agree that most of them that engage us have already made up their minds on the matter. Nothing we say would make a difference-after all, hasn't the socilalization question been asked and answered ad nauseum?
I have made a decision to no longer engage in the socialization debate with those types. My general reply is-we do what is right for our family-you do what is right for yours.
However, if I sense a genuine interest or curiosity about the matter, then I am glad to discuss it.
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us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
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Marybeth
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I know at our last homeschooling mom's night out there was the question about social activities and pulling children out of school. We had a lively chat about specifics in answering questions. It basically boiled down to the same statement Theresa made "we do what is right for our family and for us it is homeschooling."
One Mom is considering homeschooling next year and wants to pull her two dc out of public school. Her biggest obstacle is losing her own friends when she tells them. My question (which for once I kept my big mouth shut ) and didn't ask is how are they your friends if they can't support your desire to do what is best for your family?!?!?
I just want the same respect given to me in which I give to other people. I don't press people for their views of public education and ask nosy questions about their child's curriculum and daily schedule. Why all the intrigued about homeschooling??? I don't get it.
Marybeth
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alicegunther
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lapazfarm wrote:
| Marybeth, I think you've hit it on the head. I also think that we make others uncomfortable. I think some parents wrongly see homeschoolers as somehow a living reprimand to their own parenting decisions. We make them feel guilty and therefore they are on the defensive. And Stef, I also agree that most of them that engage us have already made up their minds on the matter. Nothing we say would make a difference |
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Very true!
I would also add that it helps to have a ready answer when this question comes up. Be there with a smile ready to point out all the positive aspects of homeschooling "socialization." One of the things I like to say, because it is so extremely true, is that I truly love each and every one of my children's friends. They are all such wonderful kids, and I am glad my children are around them. How many parents of middle-school-aged girls can say that?!!!
I also have a laundry list of activities my children are involved in ready to be recited at any moment, keeping my tone upbeat so that the response does not sound defensive.
Honestly, the socialization question troubled me much more when my oldest was three years old than it does now. Back then, I just had no way of responding because I did not know how she or the others would turn out. How could I say for sure they would not all become pathetic social misfits?! Now that they are older, I am able to look not only at them, but at the other home educated children we know, and respond with confidence that this is a non-issue.
BTW, here is a story I like to tell about the difficulty of getting past people's notions about "socialization."
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Courtney
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I, too, believe that each family has to do what is right for them. Honestly, I think the whole topic hit me hard today b/c I've been doubting myself and our homeschooling. Also, I haven't made a big effort with our homeschool group. Right now, my kids each go to art class 1x a week and just finished a 1x a week homeschool pe. I do need to make more of an effort sometimes to get more involved in our homeschool group. However, neither of my kids has complained about what our days are like. They enjoy playing outside in the afternoons with neighbor kids of various ages. There are two very well mannered boys down the street (ages 8 and 11) that they play hide-n-seek with, and there are a couple of younger girls also. All these kids will play together outside while the moms chat.
I think part of my struggle is, also, that I don't want our lives to be so cram full of outside activities that I start to feel like I'm chasing my tail, as my mother would say. With only two dc, that may sound strange, but I like having at least a couple of days a week that we don't have to be anywhere.
Stef, I think you're right about people having their minds made up. I don't want to get into a debate, but I do need a quick answer ready. Thank you all for your insights and ideas!
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Courtney in Texas
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Mom to Candace 10/97,Christopher 4/00 and Connor 11/11
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momwise
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Alice, that story is so funny.
It's times like this I love being Catholic
Fortunately for us, socialibity is a virtue defined by an objective truth; so when others challenge us with their "feelings" about what we should do, we have a great opportunity to spread the truth about family and friends.
I was just reading the Sociability chapter in Character Building by David Isaacs for the meaness thread. Here's Isaacs definition:
The sociable person makes good use of and discovers ways of getting together with different people; he manages to communicate with them through the genuine interest he shows in them, in what they say, in what they do, in what they think and feel.
Aaaaahhhhh......this has been so helpful to me. As usual, the Catholic way of looking at relationships really gets down to the giving of self to others. So as Isaacs says in this chapter, playing with others in not an end in itself, it is a means to learn to care for others. And as he mentions in the quote above, this virtue should concern itself with "different people."
This concept has helped me "refresh" my vision of how I want to socialize my children, and given me new ideas about how to speak about How My Children are Socialized Without School (although after 13 years of homeschooling my relatives and friends are basically seeing the fruits and don't have doubts anymore).
Another thing Isaacs does is list socialization as one of the later virtues....if the goal is caring for others and building meaningful friendships than there are a lot of other virtues that need to be built upon. And these are learned in the first school of virtue: the family.
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Elizabeth
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Here's another socialization thread
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Karen E.
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alicegunther wrote:
I would also add that it helps to have a ready answer when this question comes up. Be there with a smile ready to point out all the positive aspects of homeschooling "socialization." |
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I agree ... I have some "stock answers" to various well-meaning questions. In response to socialization issues, I say things such as, "Oh, my goodness, I have to be careful that we don't do too much socializing! We have so many activities, from art classes to swimming, that I work hard to make sure our academics are done!"
(This, of course, belies their misunderstanding of what "socialization" really is. Most people mean "socializing" when they say that, so that's what I address.)
Then, in response to their concern that I'm skimming over academics I can add the stock answer, "Oh, my, you'd be amazed how much 'school' can be accomplished when you are tutoring your children one-on-one. We can finish by noon what it takes all day to do in school."
I think the key, Courtney, is that you mentioned that you were questioning yourself. We can certainly sound more timid or uncertain when we feel that way. I know I've felt that way at times, too.
Being involved in two outside activities, with kids the ages you have, can be plenty! As you said, you don't want to be on the run all the time. Part of the beauty of homeschooling is HOME.
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Karen E.
mom to three on earth, and several souls in God's care
Visit my blog, with its shockingly clever title, "Karen Edmisten."
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Topic: Real Learning and Socialization
