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guitarnan
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For some reason, this subject is really, really bothering me. I have tortured my poor dh with endless discussions about high school and accreditation. We came up with an "ideal" list of things we want our son's high school experience to include:
Catholic (of course!!!)
Accredited (by a federally-recognized regional association)
Flexible (this seems to rule out MODG and probably Seton, based on my correspondence with MODG and reading of the Seton website)
Modern textbooks (no Christ the King, Lord of History...dh hates old texts...)
College prep with modern foreign languages
We need time enough in this high school experience for sports, art classes, and good religious instruction (mainly at home, but we'll have to deal with Confirmation prep as well).
I'm really wrapped up about the accreditation thing because I don't want my son to have to take the GED exam instead of having a high school diploma. The accreditations Kolbe and Clonlara have aren't from one of the federally-recognized associations.
My son is really wrapped up about the modern textbook thing. We've dealt with this ever since we started homeschooling. He hates Saxon Math, too (see above note on flexibility). A program which doesn't have some choice of books just won't work.
My husband wants the program to include four years of math and science and lots of sports.
I'm just going nuts. I was really hoping that HSOYD would have some way to deal with the accreditation issue. If it does, please advise!
Go ahead and tell me I'm focusing on the wrong things if you think that's the case. Maybe I just really need to hear why I'm barking up a wrong tree.
All input is appreciated!
__________________
Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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lapazfarm
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From what I've learned, and this is only me talking, accreditation is not all that important. I'm not sure why anyone would need it at all. Your son does not have to take the GED and you can issue your own high school diploma. The important thing for getting into a competitive university are the test scores for SAT (and subject area tests) or ACT, and a transcript that shows which classes ds took. You can make that yourself as well. Of course, each university has its own entrance requirements, so you should look at some and judge for yourself.If you are uncomfortable making your own and want to go with a school, Kolbe seems extremely flexible and I've heard from several who have been able to make many substitutions. Kolbe is also widely recognized by college entrance evaluators as a respected and rigorous program (as is Seton).
By the way, I am right there with your son on the old textbooks and saxon math. I can't stand them either!
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
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Elizabeth
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Nancy,
You can do what you want if you are enrolled with the Learning Community. You submit records to them and you get a Maryland diploma. I did this with the young man who schooled with us while he played professional soccer. They were very, very easy to work with. Since they're unschoolers at heart, whatever you say goes. You use HSOYD to design a curriculum that meets the above criteria and you can get an accredited diploma. You will find them at The Learning Community.
__________________
Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Cay Gibson
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Nancy,
Theresa gave you a very good summary.
I fretted over accreditation myself when my ds hit 9th grade and we signed up with an accredited program. All the accountability and paperwork didn't work out for us.  Perhaps I'm more of an unschooler than I ever realized. I have realized how meaningless my anxiety was. There was no need.
I'm smack in the middle of graduating a senior and getting him into higher learning. Here in Louisiana, it's the ACT score that counts. One hser we know made a 30 on the test last year. He was offered full-paid scholarships to go anywhere he wanted. Nothing else mattered...because he could test to the test and do it remarkably well.
As I mentioned in another post, my best friend's son was denied entrance into our local college because, though he made the necessary state score on the ACT for TOPS, he is missing one point for the college requirement. 
Focus on:
1) having a good, accurate transcript
2) the inevitable standardized test
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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ALmom
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Basically ditto what everyone else has said. The only thing I would add to the above is to look at the college entrance requirements for schools you would consider - one that is the "dream" school, one that is a good choice, and one that seems like it is pretty easy to get into. Some states seem to be easier than others, so if you can speak with someone who has successfully gone before you in your state, that helps too and gives you the most accurate answers if you are looking at state schools.
You can look on-line and see what various colleges say. We looked at ivy league, Catholic, other private and state schools just to get an idea of what might be required of us. Some of the prestigious nearby schools require more documentation from homeschoolers - so it's nice to know that ahead of time (easier to do year by year than to try and rush a summary of all courses in the final year). Often alumnus groups will give you a lot of information too.
If you have an official transcript(ie requires signature and notary) that is most of the battle. The other critical component really is that test score. Our state accepts either the SAT or the ACT. Each state is different - and sometimes colleges too so check what is most accepted in your area. The SAT stresses English, vocabulary and critical reading more with a mandated essay while the ACT has subject area critical reading components - and you really have to have a good grasp of science and history to do well on it. Since the school of our choice, allowed either test, we used the SAT since dd scored better on the SAT. Both have plenty of practice tests, etc. to use (take PSAT your sophmore year for practice and also the PLAN for ACT) then at least the tests are familiar. Also be prepared to take the PSAT in the junior year, as there are some really great scholarships offered to National Merit Finalists and semi-finalists. I don't know of any schools that turn down National Merit Scholars (they're fighting to get them and colleges are ranked partially based on average test scores of entering freshman(info you can get off the web or from a local high school counselor) and the number of Merit finalists, etc.). We were not merit scholars - still had no trouble with our state schools - but had a good SAT. The homeschool merit scholars around here were getting literally boxes of solicitation letters from schools all over the country. Some of the ivy league schools expect dc to take a minimum number of AP tests as well. You do not have to take AP courses to take the AP tests so you can find ways to prepare for these and take them as homeschoolers if that is the route you want to go.
Another thing you might want to research is the dual enrollment options in your state. We can begin taking college courses as highschoolers which gives high school and college credit, but does not change your status as an entering college freshman. It always looks good on a transcript if there are a few independently graded courses for colleges to look at - might make you more competitive for scholarships and is a good way to get lab science and upper math and foreign language credit. We didn't know about this in time for dd1 and still got into college - but I really wish we had taken advantage of these kind of things.
If dc tends to be a good tester, or with practice can be, then accreditation is not nearly as important as it seems. We found a few schools that asked for transcript from an accredited school(but had we been interested in the school, we would have asked about policies toward homeschoolers), but most did not care about accreditation - didn't even bat an eye at our transcript which looks very different from all the others from the state. However if your dc has heart set on certain school, it sure is a good idea to see what their web page says. You also get an idea of what they are going to expect to see on your transcript. I like more info up front rather than surprises at the 9th hour.
Janet
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guitarnan
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Thanks, everyone!
Elizabeth, I'm requesting info from TLC (and I'll get to HSOYD very soon!). This sounds like a great option for us because we will be living in Maryland, God willing, for at least 3 of the high school years.
Janet, Theresa and Cay, your insights and experiences are extremely valuable. I'm getting the idea that I, too, am way more of an unschooler than I thought! I could cope with more structure if that were all I had to deal with, but one of the joys of homeschooling for me is being able to provide my children with spine books, literature and experiences that help them learn in the way they learn best. I really need that flexibility.
We've been looking at colleges (everything from the Air Force Academy to University of Maryland) as you've described, Janet. I have piles of info. Most of these schools are pretty homeschool-friendly as long as you're willing to do the test thing. My son isn't that great of a test-taker  but we're working on it. We do test every year and use test prep materials all year long.
If anyone else has advice or experiences to offer, I'm all (electronic) ears!!!
Thanks again!
__________________
Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Mary G
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My dh works at a 6-12, college prep Cahtolic school. They are bigger on the college prep than the Catholic part so he hears lots aobut what colleges are looking for, etc. What they have heard is it's all SAT/ACT -- maybe becuase so many kids are coming from non-traditional schooling (whether that's rpivate, Religious or home) and the colleges ook at the SAT/ACT scores as being "objective".
But as with anything, if you really want to do it -- a particular school or major that's been traditionally closed to anyone not from a certain school or background - it can be done. Look at the Colfaxes!
The way I further look at it, is that I don't know that I would want my homeschooled kids in a school that would deny them entry just because they don't have a certain stamp on it....
Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox now.... 
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3 boys (22, 12, 8)2 girls (20, 11)
my website that combines my schooling, hand-knits work, writing and everything else in one spot!
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Bookswithtea
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What's the difference between Clonlara type accreditation and a federally recognized one? I've never heard of this before. I thought schools like Clonlara are "good enough" along with test scores and the like?
Am I missing something?
~Books
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guitarnan
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There are six regional accreditation associations that the federal government recognizes. Then there's CITA (they are international). Then, there are other independent groups that also offer accreditation. NAPCIS is the one that accredits Kolbe Academy, for example. Clonlara's is through a different group.
I hear all sorts of things about accreditation and whether or not it's important. I did a lot of research on the topic and concluded that it's really muddled. You can't accredit a program or curriculum, only a school. Also, the regional associations were designed to accredit colleges first; they got into the business of accrediting high schools later on. Some colleges want a diploma from an accredited school OR the GED exam results. Others don't care. Janet's right; it pays to do some research ahead of time if you think your child is college-bound. Clearly the USA is really into the standardized test thing...at all levels...IMHO this penalizes children who don't take tests well. But, that's just me.
Whenever I think about it all, I feel like that character in Dr. Seuss' "Fox in Sox" book...at the end, he asks, "Now is your tongue numb?" Ack.
I apologize if I've confused anyone!
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Bookswithtea
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guitarnan wrote:
Some colleges want a diploma from an accredited school OR the GED exam results. Others don't care. Janet's right; it pays to do some research ahead of time if you think your child is college-bound. Clearly the USA is really into the standardized test thing...at all levels...IMHO this penalizes children who don't take tests well. But, that's just me.
Whenever I think about it all, I feel like that character in Dr. Seuss' "Fox in Sox" book...at the end, he asks, "Now is your tongue numb?" Ack.
I apologize if I've confused anyone!
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I really sympathize with the Fox in Sox feeling. It is confusing to me, too.
Do the colleges care if the accreditation is from a regional versus a federal source? I was under the impression that it didn't matter.
I am so frustrated with our national obsession with standardized testing. Its like they want everyone to be *exactly* the same in every subject. No one values uniqueness anymore.
~Books
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lapazfarm
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Bookswithtea wrote:
I am so frustrated with our national obsession with standardized testing. Its like they want everyone to be *exactly* the same in every subject. No one values uniqueness anymore.
~Books |
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I couldn't agree more.
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
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guitarnan
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Books,
I really don't know. My research, such as it was, led me to conclude that each college's requirements are different. What a surprise. 
I also agree with your comments on standardized testing. A brilliant writer or talented scientist might be eliminated by an "average" SAT score...much to the chagrin of a Harvard or Stanford...!!!
__________________
Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Bookswithtea
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...sigh, if they can't make up their mind, then phooey. I think I'm going to use Clonlara when the time comes. They have been around awhile, and seem to be at least minimally respected. I don't know for sure, but I suspect my oldest will go the community college/voc. school path. I've heard rumblings that with apprenticeships, it might be even more important to have a diploma because its the "last" paperwork issued on schooling. This is one hoop I can jump through without giving up our freedom.
And we will hope and pray that its not limiting to his future...
~Books
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time4tea
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Guitarnan,
I was just reading through the posts, and had a question about something you mentioned in your inital post. You had written that you want something flexible, so that that would rule out MODG based on your correspondence with them. I was wondering if you might be able to elaborate a bit on what you mean - it has me a little nervous, since we plan to go that route in the Fall. Feel free to pm me so as not to take everyone else off topic, if that would be preferable! God bless and than you in advance, ~ Tea
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teachingmom
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time4tea wrote:
| Feel free to pm me so as not to take everyone else off topic, if that would be preferable! God bless and than you in advance, ~ Tea |
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Please answer here if you don't mind.
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~Irene (Mom to 6 girls, ages 7-19)
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Bookswithtea
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I signed on with MODG for 12 weeks at the jr. high level, after months of research. I tried to make several changes to my ds's course of study but my consultant didn't approve of the changes. She was really nice. I don't want to make it sound like I disliked her. But she and I had widely differing opinions on hsing.
I talked with a few other consultants that I knew personally, and what I gathered is that changes are allowed if they meet the same standards for rigorousness (I know thats not a word but I can't think of another way to say it), classical methodology, and pace.
I ended up talking with a representative for the school on the phone for over an hour. She was really nice, listened to all my concerns, and then told me, "You know, our school is a lot of money for someone who already knows what they want to do."  And then she gently told me what I was already suspecting...that my own philosophy of education was too different from theirs for this to be a good fit, and perhaps I ought to ask for a refund. That's what I ended up doing.
If you are considering MODG for high school, I would make sure sure sure you agree with their philosophy. See if you can go to a conference or borrow ALL the manuals from friends to see how the courses are built, and make sure it matches your teaching style and your teen's learning style. For things you don't like, call and make sure that the substitutions you would like to make are acceptable to them before you sign on.
I spent hours on the internet, talked with tons of people who represented the school and used the school, and I still didn't really *get it* until I was on the inside. I still kind of feel dumb about it, but on the other hand, it was a great learning experience for me (at least that's what I tell myself when I think about it!) LOL
~Books
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guitarnan
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I think Books has expressed it very well. This is the same impression that I received when corresponding with MODG. While they didn't rule out changes to the curriculum (I wanted to flip-flop 9th grade history and 10th grade history, which would also involve flip-flopping the literature courses), they really discouraged the idea.
I think our family's next step is to order HSOYD and see how we can work with that. I've been in touch with the umbrella school Elizabeth suggested and will explore that option further. Then I'll probably have dozens of new doubts and worries!
Each person who's posted here has helped me so much this week!!! Thank you (and my husband thanks you, too!).
__________________
Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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ALmom
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Nancy,
I don't know if you have looked at Kolbe or not. I'm planning to use them again overall, but always do want to do things differently - I am not a classical education person. Anyways - I would be awfully hard to label. I want HSOYD as a source for ideas and suggestions on how to do what I want - using what fits from Kolbe (cause some of the work is already done) and what I want to use. I was just talking to them and they are now offering Math plans for Jacobs and also seperate Geometry and Trig. classes - of course you could use what you want anyways without any plans from them if you preferred. They don't have the plans for the non-classical option in high school yet, but the counselor has been quite helpful to me in coming up with ways to do things MY WAY.
We are using some plans, the comments that they give on writing, their assistance in helping me plan and taylor a program for my dc, etc. I'm basically doing what I want. My oldest wanted NO LATIN or other dead languages, as she called them. We did Spanish our way. We do NOT want to spend an entire year on ancient Greece - we are not. The hardest part for me was that when I wanted something different, they gave suggestions for texts to look at as spines and generally were very supportive but I still had way more work to organize things than I was able to do - and didn't always find what I really wanted (I didn't have the message board at the beginning of the year so maybe that explains my difficulty). Their history relies primarily on primary sources - actually I love the way that they approach history, I just disagree with where the emphasis is - and we like to go off on occassional tangents. (I didn't know about this board when we started the year so that is probably why I floundered a bit in how to modify things). Between the board and HSOYD I'm hoping to have a lot more choieces to help me here.
I basically like an independent person to critique dc papers (especially in content areas). I think it helps them to have someone other than me look at them, even though I look over and critique as well (I write my own way but don't have a clue how to guide them how to - or forget all the little things that really help and find it hard to be specific with my critiques - ie I know something is just not right - but I don't know what). After all, in school they have different inputs from a variety of teachers over the years. I'd hate my dc to be limited to poor me over 4 years. Based on my own limits, this helps me, too.
I am not sure that the accreditation of Kolbe means much to colleges as it is not federally recognized and I doubt anyone in Alabama has ever heard of Kolbe anyways. Since the schools we were looking at didn't care about accreditation, we didn't worry. I don't know about the military academies. My nephew got into the Naval Academy but was initially turned down (I don't know if homeschooling had anything to do with it or not) but he went one year to a University on a full ROTC scholarship, applied again and got in that time. Since he already had a full year of courses, he is taking more advanced courses, and while you still have to do 4 years in the academy, you can either take a lighter load your plebe year or you could graduate with a Masters depending on the courses. The military academies don't place such an emphasis on top SAT/ACT scores. I'm sure they want solid ones - but my nephew researched and found that they look for something a little different, so you would still be competitive here if you weren't a straight A student with a close to perfect SAT. They want people who are smart in things other than just books (after all someones life might depend on how quickly someone can think outside the box).
One thing you could look for is an outside person who works with your dc academically and/or in other areas who is willing or would write a letter of recommendation. Several of the scholarships we looked at required this and I was glad that Jennifer had a Spanish tutor and had used an English tutor enough so that we could ask them to write the letters. Some schools require this as part of admissions (the Naval Academy did). I suppose I could have written the letters for scholarships, if we had not had the others, but I felt that someone other than mom would be questioned less and carry a little more weight. After all it would be hard for me to claim to be unbiased.
Janet
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guitarnan
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Janet,
Thanks so much for your great suggestions and ideas. I especially appreciate your advice regarding letters of recommendation. Your approach makes a lot of sense.
I've done a lot of research on the college application process, especially for the service academies. The service academies seem to be pretty homeschool-friendly, although I did have to laugh at this part of the Naval Academy's website:
"Although many homeschoolers are able to qualify academically for admission, many find their overall records relatively weak in the area of extracurricular activities."
LOL!!! They must not know the same homeschoolers I've met!!! (They do give a nice list of subjects to take in high school and suggested extracurricular activities, by the way.)
My son is trying to avoid thinking about all this "grownup stuff" right now. I just keep telling him that Dad and I are trying to keep lots of doors open for him, so that when he's ready to walk through one (in terms of age, education and experience), he has a choice of doors.
Again, your post was very helpful to me. Thanks!
__________________
Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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4Real Forums : High School Years and Beyond
Topic: Does anyone worry about accreditation?
