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amyable
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I decided to go with Oak Meadow for my kids this year. Well, 5 weeks into it and I'm realizing it is a very poor fit for my 4th grader at this time in her life. Being that she really is a workbook lover, I found two Spectrum books (LA and writing) that she seemed quite happy to get today, and she's doing Teaching Textbooks for math. I'm floundering for the other subjects...and not sure I'll stick with those workbooks either, but they were on my shelf! 
Curious what is going on at your houses for 4th grade! (we need a "nosy" emoticon  )
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LisaD
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Catholic Heritage Curricula. Love it. It's workbookish, but doesn't feel workbookish, if that makes any sense at all. The history and science is included in the 4th grade lesson plans. History is not as workbookish, and consists of research, writing, and supplemental projects. It is US History, btw. Science is more workbookish, with fill-in charts, etc. It consists of a study of the major systems of the human body, and a semester of health and first aid. Grammar and Spelling are beautiful workbooks. Faith & Life is used for religion, plus hands-on projects from A Year with God. Reading Comprehension uses Rare Catholic Stories, and hands-on projects relating the the stories. We also learn about art and use Art With a Purpose for teaching art techniques. My older kids also use Teaching Textbooks for math.
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12stars
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I am going to do OM as well for my 4th grader. She is not too fond of workbooks and loves to draw and write so I am hoping that this will work out well for us and especially her.
I have not received it yet so I am not sure what to expect.
Do you think that maybe you can continue with OM and add in some workbooks?
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Claudia in Southern California
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amyable
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12stars wrote:
Do you think that maybe you can continue with OM and add in some workbooks?
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I *thought* about that, and I still might (or a similar 4th grade waldorf-y curriculum).
FWIW my creative 6th grader loves to draw, etc, and likes her 6th grade OM very much.
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12stars
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I know what you mean OM would not work for my oldest she likes work books and doesn't like open ends. She needs to know that she has a set plan. My second grader also likes workbooks but she is also going to do OM with a occasional explode the code workbook and some singaopre math. If you do find anything I would love to hear about it as well.
I am going to add in copywork and dictation and of course religion.
I can't say that I have found any workbooks with a waldorf-y feel to them. Do they even exist?
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Claudia in Southern California
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12stars
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I also noticed you have a yahoo group for Catholics using various Waldorf curriculums.
Will I be able to join?
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Claudia in Southern California
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amyable
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12stars wrote:
I also noticed you have a yahoo group for Catholics using various Waldorf curriculums.
Will I be able to join?
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Of course!  Head on over there through the link. (ETA: I see you already did!  )
I have not found Waldorf-y workbooks either. I think that's an oxymoron.
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Sarah
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Seton's 4th grade reading comprehension WB is good. Used it just as supplment. Didn't enroll in class, though.
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Mackfam
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I have a 4th grader, Amy...but I fear that listing all that he is doing would also feel overwhelming. The list seems long, but when you consider that we embrace the Charlotte Mason, short lesson route, it really isn't all that much.
I've been thinking about your post since yesterday, and an idea hit me this morning. A caveat...I've never used Oak Meadow, and other than perusing their catalog I don't know what their lesson plans and work requirements look like...so, with that in mind...
4th grade seems to be challenging because of some of the abstract nature of the work that is just being introduced. Some kids just aren't ready to probe those depths yet. Could it be that your 4th grader balked at OM and shows her pref for workbooks because they're straightforward, black and white, enter correct answer here...asking for no thoughts or reflections on a particular passage? If she likes clear expectations with known outcomes then a program with an emphasis on art and creativity might seem too open ended and overwhelming to her.
Someone suggested CHC and I do like their workbooks. They're generally inexpensive so that might be an option.
What if you used the workbooks you have on hand and tried to work with one subject of Oak Meadow...maybe one book/approach/set of plans that really appeal to you. Discuss it with her, what does she not like, what doesn't fit? Can you improve something? Can you simply eliminate a facet of the program without undercutting the entire program? Maybe she doesn't want to do a lot of reflecting or deep pondering...could you just ask her to narrate instead? Likely, she will have a difficult time telling you exactly what makes this an ill fit so some reading between the lines will be necessary.
It's hard to make suggestions since I've never looked at Oak Meadow, so I fear I'm just taking a shot in the dark and not really doing Oak Meadow justice, but I wanted to reply because I went through something similar when my oldest dd was in 4th grade and I had no idea how to step back and reflect on what we were using and just tweak it to fit her. Truthfully, if I had just stayed on track with narrating and copywork, I would have eliminated so much of her angst. Instead, I moved away from it and opened the door too soon to what, at that time for her, was way too much open-ended, thinking, discussion, analyzing. Anyway, that was our problem and not necessarily yours...I just hate to see you ditch an entire program just a few weeks in...maybe we can help you brainstorm a way to make it work for her???
I know/think Oak Meadow is known for a gentle approach. What is it about the Oak Meadow plans that you think doesn't work for her?
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amyable
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Mackfam wrote:
Could it be that your 4th grader balked at OM and shows her pref for workbooks because they're straightforward, black and white, enter correct answer here...asking for no thoughts or reflections on a particular passage? If she likes clear expectations with known outcomes then a program with an emphasis on art and creativity might seem too open ended and overwhelming to her.
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I didn't get into the details in my OP - but this is *exactly* what I think is going on with her. She thrives with extreme structure (poor girl, with a mom like me! ) and knowing exactly what to do, when, and how. Having work "hanging over her head" - like with a 3 week long project - also seems to bother her, even when I've broken it down into "doing only this much today is fine".
Silly me, I had hoped Oak Meadow would somehow "cure" her of that, and honestly, maybe if I had stuck with it, it would have...but I don't want the whole year to be stressful for her. She is already stressed out - that's why I wanted Waldorf - for it's supposed "healing/therapeutic" aspect.
I can still get a few subjects into her in a more waldorf-y style w/o the Oak Meadow (hence my Trading Post post ) - other 4th grades in different Waldorf inspired curriculums are more well done, I've heard. I'd much rather ditch it now, before we get into full swing and I feel stuck. Oak Meadow's 4th was just...weird. It was an odd combination of too easy in some places and too hard in all the others, and scattered in it's approach. I never felt sure what they were getting at and I know that did NOT help my dd who needs me to be direct/exact. I like their 6th grade much better.
I'm sorry this thread has turned into a "help Amy" thread - honestly, I was more curious to see what others were doing (I'd love to hear all you are doing, Jennifer!), and only described my "plight" to explain why I was asking. Of course I love all the thoughts and advice I've been given!  It is helpful. But still I'd love to see a peak into others' 4th grades at home.
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This I fear is what will drive my 2nd grader and possibly my 4th as well away from this approach.
Jennifer I think you hit the nail on the head, and that is what could be bothering your daughter Amy. It is just a speculation of mine. Reflection does take a lot of work to a child. It does to mine at times.
This past year we did a lot of Charlotte Mason and Classical.
I noticed that when she delved into the thought and reflection aspect of 'anything', it took my 4th grader a while a long while to ponder what she thought she should be reflecting  . She didn't understand that you can't make mistakes reflecting and pondering, and tears would ensew. I attributed it to her maturity, but also because she had not learned how to in previous years. I had the workbooks down, and she did not like that as well. Nothing was being retained.
At the end of this past year she was able to put her thoughts together and she enjoyed it.
This is why I am doing OM...so they can learn how to figure out and think in a gentle way. Maybe I am wrong in thinking that. I love Charlotte Mason as well and I will still do many CM things when I get a chance.
I read the OM overview of 4th grade all summer over and over discerning whether if this would be a good fit and reflecting myself as to how I would be able to implement this curriculum into our school year. I had to deep think my daughters weaknesses and strengths. My decision was to go ahead and do OM. I am hoping that the they come to love to learn and research what they need. As well as express themselves through art and writing much more.
But here is the catch I have a backup
For my 4th grader I have
Horizons 3rd grade math
Stories with a View
Copywork (Manners in copywork)
MODG history
Real Science for Kids Astronomy
Spelling Power
Intermediate Language Lessons
and for my 2nd grader I have
LLATL Red
All About Spelling
Explode the Code
Finish up Little Stories for Little Folks
Singapore Math 1b and 2a
SOTW l
and of course religion for both, that we will do regardless of what what we choose for that week.
So why did I get OM because of the above and the latter tended to just fill the brain with information that was not retained as well as I liked.
We had a lot of struggles as well as bad attitudes.
So those are my reasons and my back up.
I will most likely jump back and forth knowing me and make it work.
Many hugs to you
Amy I know what you are going through.
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Claudia in Southern California
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AndieF
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I had wanted to do Oak Meadow with my then 3rd grader last year, and we basically did it but without buying the whole syllabus. By January, we had to stop most of it. She needed too much structure, and couldn't handle projects going on for an undetermined time, etc. We did continue to incorporate lots of art, handwork, learning the recorder, woodworking and gardening though. I did workbooks for spelling and math for the last couple months of the year, but I felt bad about it.
This year, we are doing a blend of Classical/Charlotte Mason/Waldorf. It is a touch too "schoolish" for me, but it isn't workbooks, so I think it will work better for both of us.
Andie, homeschooling mom to dd 9, dd 7, and ds 4.
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ALmom
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Totally unfamiliar with Oak Meadow here. But here is what we fell into this year with a child who needs gentle structure and some confidence building to put thoughts on paper. He is still finishing up vision therapy, too, so heavy reading/workbooks can become too much for him. He hates to write or draw. He is a very visual learner.
Mostly we are following MODG 4th grade. The best part for me was in teaching me how to take things in itsy steps.
Poetry memorization has turned into a favorite at our house. My 12 yo, and 6 yo have drifted into the poetry lesson and now they are all learning it and loving it. I'm not going to insist on drawing for the 4th grader just yet - but might encourage cutting pictures out or using stickers or something to illustrate until he is confident.
We are doing the copy work instead of stressing over trying to come up with ideas and organize them. They dictate Bible story back to me, and I write it down (I can do this any size I need so print size doesn't become much of an issue) and then they re-copy. I finally understood the instructions at the beginning of MODG about how to talk/study this ahead of time - commenting and relooking at what the copied -noting capitalization and smaller details. Again, I'm not going to insist on illustrating - but we may print the pages from our RC history to color as a means of illustrating. I have the Mommy its a Renoir or whatever it is called now - and we'll be doing some of that, but I'm also creating folders of my religious art by artist. We are doing this in a very relaxed way - no stress just looking at it with casual comments. We'll do the same thing with music.
History - not stressing, but we are loosely following an American History trail and plan to do some Geography to go along with that (using CHC Geography book) I'm also planning on getting the replicards to make our own flags and the boys will build me a flag stand. Then we'll display our flags by continent - and I have little boxes of pictures of Saints, animals, etc. labeled by continents. Any other tidbits by continent that come my way, will also go in a box with name of continent label. We'll pick some of the MODG rivers, mountains, etc. to list.
I invested in some science posters for my wall - really colorful and beautiful and basically my 12 yo is teaching all the science in this house. Right now the boys are all out testing their steam powered paddle boat. I haven't a clue how they made it or anything. They also go traipsing into the woods daily - and come back with lots of ticks and poison ivy - but also are making a botany study. The 12 yo is using the Botany by family book to identify things and teaching everyone else along the way. The rest of science is basically whatever 3 part cards or books or experiment kits I have around that entices them.
The other part of my religion is catechism memorization - but the painless MODG way. I won't give more than 1 prayer and 5 questions to learn and we will work on those a week beyond when they are memorized by simply reading and repeating 1 line at a time.
The first day, my very timid visual learner 4th grader looked almost frightened - but as soon as we did the lesson and he saw that I didn't pound over and over on the same thing and we were really done after repeating it (even if it took prompts), he relaxed and so far has memorized everything in way less time than given and with ease and no stress. I'm counting on the copywork teaching him grammar as we talk about why the passage is a certain way. I did have to use a grammar book a few times in making sure I modeled correct spelling and punctuation .
Math - we do Singapore (3B, I think) but we are working on memorizing multiplicattion facts the painless way, before launching into the last tiny bit of 3B and moving to 4A. I'm in no rush.
We'll do feast day celebrations but I have a day in the plans where we have the kids help plan how we will celebrate. My guess is that it will mostly be with food (no arts and crafts), but I'll probably find a beautiful art print to display or music or something along those lines. Plus some prayer (short and sweet) and lots of fun time. My boys respond to this much better than to crafty things.
Janet
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Bookswithtea
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Amy, since you already spent the money on OM, how about using what is working from that, adding the workbooks she likes, and then filling in around the edges with something on Serendipity? That way you aren't paying for a new curriculum. There's so much stuff on there, now. American History units, World Cultures, Units, science ideas for a broad audience. And except for the core book or two, most of the topics are the kind where you can use the books you have on your shelf already.
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amyable
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Bookswithtea wrote:
| Amy, since you already spent the money on OM, how about using what is working from that, adding the workbooks she likes, and then filling in around the edges with something on Serendipity? |
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Thanks for your thoughts, Books - I did think about this, but realized that the parts I need to fill in - history and science for the most part, I thought were lacking in Oak Meadow 4th. (Actually, I never intended to do the science with her but we haven't picked up another "family science" idea yet). So that really left nothing for her in OM.
I'm hoping to sell the OM at near the cost I paid (used/seconds), and use that money to get a more general - and cheaper - waldorf 4th grade resource that I can use as a guide.
Or not, LOL! I'm still thinking. We're still on target to use Serendipity's World Tour next year, but I truly didn't *get* how to use Serendipity - didn't understand how to implement Waldorf on a daily basis - until I got the Oak Meadow stuff. So now that Serendipity is making a bit more sense to me, I think we can eventually pull that off.
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Bookswithtea
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I am not as creative as the Serendipity ladies. My versions of their work are never quite as amazing as what they pull off. But I take ideas from it all the time and make it my own.
Botany in a Day, for example, won't work for me since I know nothing about botany to begin with. I'm going to sub in the Apologia Elem. botany book, but not read it chapter by chapter, but use it as our go-to resource.
Anyway, I think its really cool that Serendipity is a resource list with ideas rather than lesson plans. I take their ideas and then create weekly lesson plans that will work for our family, and then I just don't revisit the other stuff, just to simplify my life. It will look different in every home, but the books are living, I don't have to worry about Catholic content, and well, by doing Serendipity, I have finally, successfully, infused art and creativity into our education in a gentle way.
I love it.
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Mackfam
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Ok, Amy...here goes...
My 4th grader's plans this year...
Religion-
:: Baltimore Catechism 1
:: Angel Food for Boys and Girls by Father Brennan
:: Liturgical Year plans
:: Mary Fabyan Windeatt saints books
:: Know Your Mass by Father Demetrius Manousos
:: My Path to Heaven by Geoffrey Bliss
:: A Life of Our Lord for Children by Marigold Hunt
:: The First Christians by Marigold Hunt (both Hunt title also coordinate with History reading)
:: Rare Catholic Stories and Poems
:: More Rare Catholic Stories and Poems
Math
:: Saxon Math 5/4 and Math 6/5 - we move fast, but at his pace.
:: Montessori Math presentations that show concepts more concretely
Language Arts
:: Copywork comes from Poetry, Bible readings, readings of the Saints, etc. - enforces spelling and grammar work.
:: Narration daily
:: We're going to start working on studied dictation during the latter half of the year using sources from literature and poetry. I'll work grammar in through discussions in dictation and pull spelling words from here as well.
:: Penmanship - I mostly pull from free printable sources on the internet...he's polishing up cursive strokes
:: Typing skills - Working on these through online typing games
:: Montessori grammar boxes
:: Free Write Fridays - this is a hit here, and my 4th grader just finished an impressive essay he wrote as an entry for a Lego contest! I was thrilled to see his command of writing skill - even if it was about how his Droid Tracker 1000 would capture R2D2!
Literature/History
We read our way through History using wonderful literature...I have a number of books we're reading this year as well as history magazines. I pull my list and plans from a variety of sources. Rather than re-write it...you can get a pretty good idea of where we're headed and what we're doing here. I'll probably still fill in with some other additional finds from the library. The kids chronicle their reading and the events and important figures in their Book of Centuries
Geography
:: This always dovetails with our History studies a good bit. We do a lot of mapwork based on the geography we're studying in history.
:: We're reading through Hillyer's "A Child's Geography of the World" this year as a read aloud - just a couple of chapters a week.
:: We're specifically focusing on Europe this year using our maps and working on building and adding to a continent box.
:: Biomes have become very interesting to us and are a rabbit trail I will likely plan and build into an entire study for our Geography for the year. We learn about a new one each day and have REALLY been enjoying the videos and info on this site -
Biomes of the World. We spend just a few minutes each morning at the end of our Nature Study time investigating one biome. We were inspired to do this by the "Features of Nature" word match on p. 9 of the August issue of Nature Friend. We just study one feature a day. After we've completed this, we'll likely begin constructing various biomes and landforms out of clay as a project on Fine Arts Fridays.
Poetry
:: This is an important and beloved feature of our year. I choose poetry seasonally, and some historically for memorization. We're also using R is for Rhyme for a more technical study of Poetry. There are some great ideas for use of this resource written on Serendipity - R is for Rhyme.
:: We continue our study of Shakespeare through our Fine Arts Fridays
Science
:: The Way Things Work by David Macaulay and lots of hands on building and engineering projects that the book inspires.
:: We've also begun an impromptu study with the microscope and since his big sister is digging into Botany, he naturally follows along a lot of those studies just because there is interest.
Nature Study
:: Among the Meadow, Pond, Forest, Night, People series by Clara Dillingham Pierson
:: Lots of nature walks, sketches, and learning based on those walks.
Latin
:: Prima Latina
:: Latin hymns
:: Latin prayers of the Mass
Art
:: We're studying Monet and the Impressionists this year
:: We're also really digging into botanical sketches and watercolors this year as a way of supporting Nature Studies.
:: Liturgical Art - various sacred artwork that coordinate with the liturgical year...we study the symbolism, light, forms, mood, etc.
Music
:: We're working on Bach a lot this year
:: We'll probably branch out a bit using "How to Introduce Your Child to Classical Music in 52 Easy Lessons".
:: We'll work on learning more hymns to coordinate with the Church year
I think that's it. We don't do everything every day!
Many of the Fine Arts are completed on Fridays - our Fine Arts Fridays. So we might discuss a picture and then set it out for display during the week. Same with a composer or piece of music - we discuss on Friday and play it the following week. Shakespeare studies take place on Friday as well.
A lot of things are short lessons. For instance, we spend about 5 - 10 minutes each day on Baltimore Catechism and poetry memorization. Some of these short lessons take place within our Morning Basket Time which allows me to cover a subject across 2 grades with a large span - preschool, 4th grade, 8th grade, and a very curious and involved toddler  .
Some of the things I've listed I may not start in earnest until the second half of the year...so I have divided things in terms a bit.
There ya go, Amy! My son's 4th grade year!
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Jen Mackintosh
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Wildflowers and Marbles
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12stars
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Jennifer your plans look amazing and reminiscent of what we did last year and what we will continue to do this year as well.
My children love LOVE love Among the ....People.
Thanks for all the links I found some great books.
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Claudia in Southern California
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Mom to DD 14, DD 10, DD 7, DS 4, DS 2, 1 in heaven, and now due 5/11.
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amyable
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Jennifer:
Just kidding!
I can definitely see how that amount of resources, when taken in bite sized chunks daily throughout the year, can be thorough but not overwhelming. The beauty of CM!
Thank you so much for "humoring" me and writing all that out.
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Amy
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: What are you doing with 4th grader?
