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italianalaskan
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http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/425122.aspx
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12stars
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That is just horrible and very sad.  I have to agree with Pat, I thought that they had changed their laws.
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Claudia in Southern California
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Mom to DD 14, DD 10, DD 7, DS 4, DS 2, 1 in heaven, and now due 5/11.
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Sparrow
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Very sad and scary :(
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Katie, blessed wife to Tyson and mom to all girls! Bailey (7) Riley (3) and Rory (3/17)
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sarahb
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A Questionable Education
A lot of American Christians would have good reason not to want their kids subjected to German state schools. The sex education curriculum is often pornographic, even for young ages, and the occult is often celebrated.
Missionary Robinson told CBN News, "I know of schools right in our area where it's not just mixed swimming but mixed showering after the swim class is over and mixed locker rooms and then they leave and go to the next class."
German home-schooler Heiko Krautter told us he would be sinning to put his children in a state school.
He said, "These things in the school, the official state school, they destroy the children. And we teach the children in the things of God. And the people in the official school teach the children in other things, against God."
Krautter fled Germany after this interview and took his family to Norway.
Thornton believes Germany's war on home-schooling is just a part of Europe's war against Christianity.
"This is a battle to eradicate spiritual life from every person in Europe, to eradicate spirituality and Christianity from the culture," he said.
And the unfortunate victims in this battle are the families who believe educating their children is their God-given right.
I have a really hard time believing this above is true.
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italianalaskan
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Why? After all this is what a lot of people would like to see happening in this country. Europe is not a free country like the States, you are not free to choose how you want to live your life. The Government has a lot of power on thei citizens, and Christianity is quickly disappearing giving way to atheism and selfishness. It's not news that homeschooling is illegal in Germany.
Hopefully we will be able to keep homeschooling in this country. I couldn't see my life without it anymore, even though, sometimes, I wish my kids would be gone all day and I had more time to myself!!!!!!
Simona
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folklaur
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Is CBN news like WND?
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12stars
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Sarah I don't know if you have had the opportunity to have children go to public schools here in the States. I have and I pulled my daughters out about 2 years ago, mainly because I felt as though their education was being treated as a something that they had to get through. Lo and behold I also realized as my faith grew that their spirituality was also under attack. My oldest daughter being in 5th grade at the time always came home with stories as to how some children were suspended for sexual harrasment a few times. Unfortunatly that is the world that we live. If I as a parent have the chance to help my children and protect my children, especially their faith I am going to do it.
I went to public school for most of my childhood and teen years, and yes materials like that were passed around especially when we had sex ed.
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Claudia in Southern California
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Mom to DD 14, DD 10, DD 7, DS 4, DS 2, 1 in heaven, and now due 5/11.
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CathinCoffeland
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I do know that we used to get a lot of German tourists in Southern Utah when I was little.
I vividly remember them stripping naked and swimming an bathing (with soap -is that environmentaly responsible  ) in the lake and rivers men and women and children together -and well in public. 
differnt cultures and all -my parents were simply amused but that was not the general utah reaction .
It wouldnt surprise me but in my understanding mixed nudity is accptable among families - I dont know about in general
Here in the northwest where i live know children are frequetly naked up to about school age in public fountians and rivers and what not.
As far as the homeschooling it is very scary- a good lady friend in our hs group has a german son-inlaw and they are trying hard to get his job transferred now that they have their first child. She loved hs'ing and does not want her kids in the school system there.
Maggie-who does not advocate public nudity 
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italianalaskan
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That' funny about nudity. I grew up in Italy and I vividly rember them stripping down on our public beaches. They are very outspoken about sexuality and have no problem showing their intimate parts!
Simona
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Kathryn UK
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italianalaskan wrote:
| Europe is not a free country like the States, you are not free to choose how you want to live your life. |
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Huh?????
Europe isn't a country. It is a continent. And in this European country homeschooling is entirely legal, with less government interference than in many US states.
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Kathryn
Dh Michael,  Rachel(3/95) Hannah(8/98) Naomi(6/06)  (11/07)
The Bookworm
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folklaur
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CathinCoffeland wrote:
I vividly remember them stripping naked and swimming an bathing (with soap -is that environmentaly responsible ) in the lake and rivers men and women and children together -and well in public.
differnt cultures and all -my parents were simply amused but that was not the general utah reaction .
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Someone I know was just talking about this. She said that so much of "what is acceptable" and "what makes you a Christian" (or what is the correct behavior of a Christian) is cultural.
She has spent time in many different countries, and said that, for instance, in Sweden, nudity is a non-issue, but many people think playing card games or board games is evil. Or that the colour red is of the devil.
In Finland, Christian families had them over after church, and they were invited to sit, naked, in the family hot tub.
Of course, here in the US - that boggles our mind. Well, at least it did mine. I am sure I would be all sorts of flustered in that situation!
Obviously, the whole persecution of homeschoolers, is, I think, horrible.
But some of the article...did seem a bit...alarmist. But then, maybe it isn't. It was why I asked if CBN was liek WND. WND is horribly skewed. I don't know about CBN. But I know, from reading their Statement of Faith, that they are not Catholic friendly.
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St. Ann
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From my experience, Germans do tend to be much more liberal with the nudity issue, which is not to say that most germans swim and sunbathe naked. NOT. I have never heard of co-ed showers after sports and I have lived in Bavaria and in North Rhein Westfalia. But ...at the beginning of my life in Germany I did gasp a couple of times (silently) to see my faithful catholic friends change their clothes on the shores of a lake, men and women alike, very decently done mind you, but I could hardly believe it, when I saw it. The men did not glance over at the women and vice versa. It was just so natural and done respectfully, but I was still floored. I was the only one who did look around just because I could just not believe what was happening. The germans describe americans as puritanical and find it equally difficult to fathom.
Sex education in public schools is terrible. My dh and I caused an uproar because of dd1's 4th grade sex-ed c;ass. It is too terrible to give details. I did become physically ill months later as a consequence I am sure. I spoke with another mother from a smaller town and her experience was different. The teacher asked the parents what they wanted and she complied. There are always exceptions to the rule.
I wish I wish that homeschooling was legal in Germany. My dh is a teacher and does not see it happening soon. I don't even think we would find support from the Catholic church in Germany for homeschooling
either. Funnily enough I could not find catholic parents who were equally appalled at the sex-ed situation. I only found support from a muslem mother who takes her faith seriously. She grew up in the area and was so thrilled to meet an orthodox catholic, finally. I had more in common with her than with most of my catholic neighbors.
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Stephanie
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guitarnan
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Well, I have a dear German friend who is a teacher, and I have a few points to add.
First, I don't agree with the German government's anti-homeschooling policy.
Second, many German schools have religious education as a subject (in public schools), so I don't think this is about anti-Christianity at all. It's about governmental control of the educational process. You have to remember that the curriculum is implemented in each German state; teachers don't have a big say over what materials they use, although they do have control over how they teach (my friend, a language teacher, uses song, film, stories, etc. in addition to the course materials). German law also restricts free speech in a way Americans wouldn't tolerate, albeit for a "good" reason (eliminating references to Nazism).
Many Europeans - not just Germans - are less uncomfortable with nudity than we are. That's their culture. However, it's not as though every German family is nudist!!! Small children go to the beach topless in pretty much every European country I've visited (and gone to the beach at), but once they're school-age, that stops.
I'd also like to mention that Germans I've spoken with are very embarrassed about the vacation behavior of some of their fellow-countrymen (loudness, etc.).
It's very hard for us to judge other cultures attitudes toward religion, nudity or anything else if we're not there. That's one thing I definitely learned in my five years in Italy and my semester in Ireland.
I feel uncomfortable tying Germany's laws about homeschooling to some kind of persecution of Christians. It seems to me that Muslims and neo-Nazis have a much more difficult time living in Germany than Christians do (yes, I've met German Muslims, thankfully no neo-Nazis).
Our public schools have problems, as do schools in other countries. I wish Germans had the right to homeschool, but it certainly doesn't look like it will happen any time soon. Let's pray that the German educational ministers will take a closer look at their schools and see that homeschooling isn't a threat to the German educational system.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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italianalaskan
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Kthryn,
maybe in England it is legal to homeschool, but I know for a fact that it is illegal in Germany. I have a friend who lives there and told me that only if you are non citizen you can homeschool.
I can assure you the Italian government interfere with the school system as much as they do in the States and I do consider Europe more as a country now that they have no more "borders" and same currency (England of course has no part in that- very smart).
I didn't want to make this post political, really.
I just thought that it is scary what is going on in Europe and in this country with more and more people criticizing Christians for having strong principals and wanting them to pass them on to our children.
Simona
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guitarnan
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Hmmm...the only way I got my Italian neighbors to understand why we were homeschooling (not illegal there, but extremely rare) was to explain that we wanted our children to have a Catholic education, but that they didn't speak enough Italian to go to the local Catholic school. They got it, completely.
I do think that the EU nations with growing Muslim populations are treading a very fine line with regard to religion and education so that they don't inadvertently permit jihadist schools/movements to establish themselves. To prevent this, some countries are also requiring Christian students to remove religious jewelry (so the schools can ban head scarves, for ex.). It's very sad - for all the students, I think.
Each EU nation sets its own laws, including educational requirements. It's not quite the same as the common currency (which Great Britain hasn't adopted) or open borders.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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italianalaskan
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I know that. I don't live in Italy anymore, but I am still current on what's going on there.
I guess I should have said Europe is not a free Continent, but the word country sounds better.
Simona
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LeeAnn
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Is there any school choice in Germany? Can you send your child to a private school, for instance? Or is everyone compelled to attend the government schools? I am just wondering if parents can cooperate to start their own schools--with at least more acceptable practices--or if they are not even free to do that.
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guitarnan
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No, everyone goes to Grundschule (elementary) and then the students are tracked toward college prep, vocational school, etc. The main decision is made after 4th grade - that's when students find out if they are eligible to go to a Gymnasium (college prep) - there is a limited amount of choice there, such as English-language immersion Gymnasium vs. one that emphasizes math & science.
Parents can't cooperate to form schools. School teachers are state employees. Parents can join parent councils - my friend is the teacher rep for her school's parent council - and make their views known via the council, but they can't break away from the system.
You have to understand, though, that citizens of other nations don't always think in terms of individual rights the way we do in the U.S. Their definitions of rights and freedom is different. In Germany, the government has more control, partly because the Germans want it that way. No one wants another Hitler. They're willing to give up some freedoms to achieve this goal.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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JSchaaf
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Are American families living on US military bases still able to homeschool? It used to be at the "base commander's discretion". How about American military families living off-base?
Thanks!
Jennifer
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St. Ann
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JSchaaf wrote:
Are American families living on US military bases still able to homeschool? It used to be at the "base commander's discretion". How about American military families living off-base?
Thanks!
Jennifer
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Yes, they are. I am not sure about off base families. It is for private americans, like me, who are not allowed to homeschool. The american military is like a little America within Germany.
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Stephanie
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Germany declares war on homeschoolers
