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teachingmyown
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| Posted: Oct 17 2007 at 10:39pm | IP Logged
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This is probably more of an issue for those of us with teens in school, but perhaps those of you with your teens home have struggled with this question as well.
Do you require straight A's, or A's and B's only? Do you have consequences when your teen does not get those grades?
When we put ds16 in school, we told him he had to keep his grades up to at least B's. He is very smart and school really isn't challenging. The consequence for bringing home a C is being grounded until the next report comes out.
Right now he has a C in Spanish. All the other grades are high B's or A's. I think he can do better. He says he can't. And he is very angry about our rules on this matter.
So, am I wrong to even be trying to enforce this? Is he too old for me to be worrying about his grades? At what point do I let this go and let him take the real consequences which could be not getting into a college of his choice?
Really, in a way, this is a broader question. When and in what things do we back off and let our teens assume responsibility for their decisions?
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In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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LisaR
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Ha Ha! SO funny- we JUST had a discussion about this tonight with ds. he has all A's. A-'s and then a D+ in Spanish!!????  What is going on!?
I am going to be going over his Spanish with him every single night. The school just this week got the program up and running where parents can access the grades online 24/7. Teachers have to update every 48 hrs minimum. He needs to pull it up to a "B"> Grounding does not seem to work, as I think he can hole up and no one really notices his abscence from an event or two. But, not being able to play a football game, or having to go in and meet the teacher early or stay late for help is like "public" humiliation for him that he wants to avoid at all costs. I did offer to sit in on the class with him, and boy that lit a fire under him 
praying that Spanish goes better for both boys!
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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Bookswithtea
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Hmmmmmmmmm...we just dealt with the same thing here this week, with a 14 yr old. I have this theory that God never intended for teen boys to be sitting at desks all day, at home or at a school. I think the Amish have it right...8th grade graduation and years working alongside men at a trade/apprenticeship. In Europe, a child who is not geared for 4 year university can graduate at 16 and pursue a career. Both of my uncles are now successful in their lives and haven't missed those two years or college at all.
I think the fallout of our overly academic society is a host of boys who really dislike school and could just care less about grades. I feel sorry for them, but I don't know how to fix the problem and stay within the law...
We tentatively set our standard at a minimum of a low B because...well...it doesn't usually take *that* much effort to get a low B. To me, a C says, "I didn't even bother to try." But you didn't mention what kind of school ds is attending. If its a rigorous private school, and all his other grades are good, then maybe he really does need some extra help with Spanish and its a legitimate grade?
Is there some way you could make the punishment based on weekly grades in Spanish rather than a whole quarter long punishment?
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and  due 9/10
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sewcrazy
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We have been going with this same issue with my 14 year old. We expect A's and B's. And until that happens he as no social life. To him, this is a punishment as he is a very social boy. Our youth group leader backed me up on this. He came to see my son and told him that he wasn't permitted social youth group activities until he had all A's and B's. It is a very rigorous school my son attends, but he is bright and gets 100% when he applies himself, much lower when he doesn't.
I don't think you should let up on him now. If you truly beleive it is do to lack of effort and not a comprehension issue, then you need to show him that the grade is important. The reality is, these grades do matter. Even freshman grades will impact on getting into colleges.
LeeAnn
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LisaR
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| Posted: Oct 18 2007 at 8:22am | IP Logged
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I think it is very important to be aware of the grades on a day to day, weekly at the least, basis. That way no one is blindsided (like I just was!) and it does not have to get to the "punishment" stage. We spoke at length about how important grades are and set goals for ds as to how every single day he can pull it up a tiny bit. To threaten with he needs to get an A or B from a D+ would overwhelm him and make him combative.
I had my mini meltdown before he got home from school, and I think that we rationally worked out a solution
Honestly, a few other parents of Honor students have shared with me their kids are getting C's and D's in Spanish, so I am fairly certain the (new) teacher is partially to blame. But we spoke with ds about how life is not fair and you have to learn what makes the teacher "tick" and perform accordingly.
I would hesitate to take away Youth Group for him. He gets a lot of good teaching from it (it actually is led by our High School Chaplain , a steubenville grad Priest) and I am the product of blanket groundings -they just made me very angry, resentful, rebellious, and I turned to lying alot as a teen.
off to check online to see ds's grade updates- do any of you have this feature, it sure is nice!
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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LisaR
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PS, ds , after some dialoging, admitted that having a D+ was very embarassing to him and he felt like a failure. To this end Dh worked with him on the goal setting, so that ds is taking ownership of his grades. I think if we had kind of "lost it" with him, he would have retreated more, and we would have had more of a Dictator/Child on our hands.
On a very side note, ds ended up with two detentions the first month of school.
(one for cutting ahead of the teacher on the way to lunch with 4 other boys, they found a shortcut!, and one for tossing a crumpled up ball of paper into the trash from his desk)
Both times the teachers e mailed us right away, and ds also came home and gave us the detention slip right away to look at. So, we are very pleased that he is so communicative and honest. We did not want to lose it on him for fairly minor infractions, and yet wanted to impress that detentions could not continue as they are a disruption to our family. (he had to go in very early to school to serve them, after school is football)
Tim, Joe and I decided that two (first degree) detentions per school year could be the reasonable limit, so he knows that his quota is already used up.
Dh took him all the way to school for the first detention, and then for the second detention, dropped him off a mile away, to walk himself there.
This made a huge impact on him as he had to lug three bags (football equipment, school books) and it is a very busy street, and again, he does not like attention drawn to himself and was certain at least someone knew what he was going in early for!
this is a learning year for me, that is for sure!
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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teachingmyown
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My son is in public school, nothing rigorous about it. He just doesn't want to put forth effort in anything he doesn't like. He doesn't like Spanish and he really dislikes the teacher. Even with his grades, he is an overachiever in his school, so no embarrassment to him!
They are on block scheduling, so we get a report card or interim every two weeks. They do four subjects a semester, then four different the next semester, similar to college.
He is very social, so grounding is hard for him. At the same time, I am pretty flexible. He is allowed to go hit baseballs with his friends to keep in practice for his baseball team. He can go to CYO. I allow his best friend to hang out here. He just can't go "out"- football games, movies, etc.
I am already a "terrible" mother because I don't let him go to parties like "everyone" else. He is sure he could be the most popular boy in school if he was able to get out there more. He is probably right, but I am not compromising there. Popular does not appeal to me.
I see we are all on the same page with grades. What about my broader question of when and how to start letting them make decisions and take the consequences?
__________________
In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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LisaR
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What about my broader question of when and how to start letting them make decisions and take the consequences? [/QUOTE wrote:
]
well, I kind of touched upon it I think, or maybe not. I think it was very beneficial for dh and I no |
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well, I kind of touched upon it I think, or maybe not. I think it was very beneficial for dh and I not to freak out on him and to "react" to the grades. It was a very rational meeting. We asked him to look at the progress report and tell us what was going on in each class, if he thought he could improve, what he did well on, etc. We made sure and really acknowledged the straight A grades. ALso, this is his first time ever in school, so a bit different than your situation. we all honestly had no idea how he would be doing.
We did say it was his choice about the grades. That if anything below a B+ came home, he would lose his scholarships and financial aid because we would have to meet with the Priest and the others who gave him money, and say that he was withdrawing because of not performing up to potential. We DID say the other option was homeschooling.
He laid out the plan as to how every day he would pull his grade up bit by bit, and I agreed to go over his work with him every night, per his ideas.
I would much rather deal with a poor report card grade that he "earned" and learned from, than pushing and pushing for that A and then him rebelling and resenting us.
you know, maybe I'm a lax parent, but I just want my kids to be confident Catholics. IMHO, knowing that your kid is bright and can do better is frustrating, but ultimately, they have to start making those choices to live up to their potential.
then again, Ido not have a 16 y/o in a public school. we are all very new to this, and I have a lot of trust and faith in the "consequences" or whatever boundaries our particular school lays out....
I'd love to hear how the rest of the semester goes.
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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folklaur
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OOoh, ouch. Wow. Am I allowed to disagree? Or should I just sit quietly and ignore this whole thread ? I am never sure what to do when everyone seems to agree, and I don't...
LeeAnn said: The reality is, these grades do matter. Even freshman grades will impact on getting into colleges.
I used to feel this way and put pressure on dd18 about grades. But you know what? That just isn't the case across the board. The SAT/ACT is really what counts -- that is why homeschoolers, even those that don't grade -- can still get into a great University / College.
If he hates Spanish, and hates the teacher, can he take something else?
And, if he does get all A & B's, and then gets a C in a class he hates...well, isn't that still a passing grade? I guess the idea that he hates it, but still gets a passing grade..well, I guess what I am wondering is how exactly does grounding him help him to get better grades? Will he learn it better, or just do better on the test and then promptly put it out of his head? Is the goal for him to learn Spanish, or is it to get an A or a B on Spanish Test? I know, as parents, we want the goal for them to be BOTH of those...but if he really does hate it, and as soon as possible will not continue with it, than obviously HIS goal ISN'T to learn Spanish....it is just to pass the test to be ungrounded.
Am I making any sense?
~Laura in AZ
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teachingmyown
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Laura,
I am glad you chimed in! And you do make sense. This is where I have been stuck. I find myself in this position of holding firm while in the back of my mind I am wondering what the point is.
Philosophically I don't even believe in grades.  But I don't want him to think school is all about skating by and having a social life. On the other hand, I don't remember a quarter of what I learned in school, especially German which I took for 3 years! And I was an A student.
I am just so worn down at every turn and wondering which hill I want to die on. This hill just doesn't seem that worth it.
So the balance between being a caring involved parent and one who is too controlling in situations that aren't necessarily mine to control.
One more thought. Lisa has a son who is eager to do well and please. He is also two years younger. In that way, the situation is different. For any of my younger kids I can see this playing out differently.
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In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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Bookswithtea
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Too funny, Laura, as you and I rarely disagree!
Here's my thinking on the matter. His low grade is not a matter of lack of comprehension, its lack of caring. Pulling a C in a public school does not take that much work. That's a character issue that needs to be dealt with. Its more problematic in boys I think, than with girls. Boys have to learn that they have to perform even when they don't care, they don't like their boss, they'd rather be fishing, etc...Especially boys only 2ish years from graduation. (I can already see in my dd's that their level of internal motivation is very different)
It would be lovely if he remembered and learned his Spanish well, but we all know that even in our homeschools, our kids aren't retaining everything. They remember what they want to remember and we can't control that. But I do see the character issue as key. This is a kid who also loves to challenge his mom (from previous posts). That's probably also more boy related. He needs a "buck stops here" point, imho.
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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folklaur
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Bookswithtea wrote:
Here's my thinking on the matter. His low grade is not a matter of lack of comprehension, its lack of caring.
<snip>
But I do see the character issue as key. This is a kid who also loves to challenge his mom (from previous posts). That's probably also more boy related. He needs a "buck stops here" point, imho. |
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Ahhh, okay. That makes sense. So the underlying issue isn't really "the grade" per se.
Which would explain why Mom feels so torn about it too.
Is that right?
Smiles,
~Laura in AZ
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Red Cardigan
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Well, I don't have teenagers, I don't have boys, and I don't have any that aren't being homeschooled, but I'm not a big fan of grade pressure generally.
One of my daughters got a "C" on a grammar quiz the other day, but it was an honest C. She's a bright girl and usually works hard, but frankly she's the second of my children to stumble and fall on the lesson involving noun syntax (they're supposed to look at a noun and be able to tell person, gender, number, and case; and with the case, to be able to tell why each noun is nominative or objective: e.g. subject, nominative of address, nom. of apposition, or predicate nom.; direct or indirect object, objective in apposition, or object of a preposition). It's a lot to remember, and though she worked diligently on the lesson when it came to the quiz she could only answer fifteen of the twenty questions correctly.
Now, I know she's intelligent enough to master this eventually, but I also know that requiring her to get an A or a B on the quiz, or even for the quarter, would merely add to the frustration of learning something this complex.
In the case of foreign languages, even a bright student may begin having somewhat poor grades owing to a deficiency in one area. For instance, some students are extremely good at translation but poor at vocabulary retention. Others can handle vocabulary memorization but become confused by idiomatic phrases, the use of gender in Romance languages, or the need to demonstrate ready translation skills, especially on-the-spot translations of English into the language being learned.
A student may admit, honestly, that the subject matter isn't all that "hard" for him and that he could work harder and get better grades, but he may not realize that one particular area of the class is persistently causing his difficulties. Targeting that area can help grades improve.
An expressed dislike for the subject is sometimes masking a real difficulty with it, as we seldom dislike things we grasp relatively easily. And it's often easier for a student to say that he does understand the subject and will work harder than to admit that there's some aspect of the material he's finding it difficult to conquer or retain--especially since saying "Yes, it's my fault, and I'll work harder," usually ends the (embarrassing) conversation.
I guess if it were me, and I had already asked these questions and determined that it truly was dislike and laziness that was responsible for the grade, and not a hidden difficulty with the subject, I'd still be inclined to accept the "C" as a passing grade, and leave it at that. But that's just me.
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Red Cardigan
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Oh, gosh. I forgot to say that the reason I'm posting on this at all (not having teens) is that after college I worked for a year grading ninth-graders' work for a Catholic homeschool program, and talking with moms and their students about issues like this!
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LisaR
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honestly, if for spanish particularly we continue to not figure out this teacher, ds will probably switch over to Latin or Greek- which are what we wanted him to do anyway and it sounds like they have excellent teachers. My ds is eager to please:Ha Ha!!! It IS like this strange transformation has come over him. Before he fought us at every turn over big and little issues. Now he is seeing that others in authority actually have the same boundaries and expectations that we do. So he really is making a change for the better , I think, with going to school.
He is a very young freshman, just turning 14 in July.
I am not a big advocate about grades being important to get into college. I am really not pro grade or teaching to the test, either. But, that is the world we live in . There are some good lessons to be learned there, expecially for a male who most likely will have to provide for a family.
Red Cardigan, I liked your insights!!
What ARE the "right" goals for a high school male to have?
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Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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Angie Mc
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We expect excellence...but since we home educate, that doesn't always equal a certain grade. I'm thinking about Leonie's "RAH!: Right way, all the way, happy way" motto. We expect excellence in how work is approached (follow the directions, be deliberate, concentrate, hard work, etc.) We expect completion of work (stive for timliness, neatness, improvement, etc.) We expect good attitude (courage, hope, trust, patience, etc.) We also talk about reality. Since my dd wants to go to college, she needs B's at a minimum because that's what college's (in general) expect. Sometimes an A can be received without much "excellence" and sometimes a C is received through an excellent effort...wish this was more straight forward .
We have worked to set realistic goals, and adjust them regularly, and do expect her work to be done before she participates in privileges. Activities with friends are a privilege, not an entitlement (this is true for all of us in the family.) And we make exceptions...
We're still getting into a groove here with dd in 10th grade. Sheesh, you'd think we would have this figured out by now! Thanks for the conversation.
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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4Real Forums : High School Years and Beyond
Topic: Requiring good grades
