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teachingmyown
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| Posted: Oct 17 2007 at 10:38am | IP Logged
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I need help deciding what to do with my dd11. Many of you have seen my prayer request about my struggle with depression right now.
The problem with my daughter is that she finishes her "written work" by 10am most days. This consists of math, handwriting, grammar, science and religion. She will do the reading for history, but is bored with it because we are doing Sonlight Core 3 and I haven't done a good job supplementing the reading to keep it up to her level. So, by mid-morning she is bored and wants to play on the computer or something like that. If I can keep her supplied with good books she will read, but I can't keep up!
I know she is feeling the weight of my mood. She alternates between very helpful and very moody where she is snapping at everyone.
I want to switch her to a program that will keep her busy and give her clear daily instructions. I hate the idea of just "filling the bucket" curricula. I want her to feel like she is learning something and accomplishing something. We have tons of books here, but without lesson plans she isn't getting any deeper than the workbook pages she is doing.
So, I am wondering, do I order Seton? Kolbe? Oak Meadow? This is a child who loves to read and likes order. I think that she will do much better with some structure. I can't provide that right now.
Thanks so much.
__________________
In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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donnalynn
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Hi Molly -
I am so sorry you are having a hard time - I can relate. I will pray. Instead of more "school" work would she be interested in "doing" something?
My older girls are very helpful with the cooking - it's something they both like and it is very helpful to me. I have two daughters and one does breakfast on Wednesdays and the other does breakfast on Thursdays - they both alternate helping with lunch.
I was just wondering if maybe there was something that would keep her occupied but at same time be of some real help to you?
I've also made lists of "Things I Could Do" for my girls when we were going through a spell of very cranky moods and I'd ask one or the other to go to their room - the lament was "But I have nothing to do...." (can you hear the whiny pitch in there?) So I made up a list things like -
Practice your violin
Knit something
Write a letter to a friend
Pick up your clothes
Draw a picture for Grandma
Play a game with younge brother
and so on...I had at least 10 options.
I told them - if you've done everything on this list - then come see me. (If it comes to that they know they are going to get dishes, or sweeping, or some other task they don't particularly like.
I've contemplated getting a more structured program especially for my oldest - but I have never found one where I think everything in it would be a good match - and I always come away feeling like I would be wasting money if I weren't going to use the whole thing.
I was seriously considering CHC Plans for Middle School at one point because I felt that maybe I could pick choose enough from all the grades that would work.
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MarilynW
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Molly - I am not sure what your daughter likes to do. But my dd 11 would love more time to do things like:
1) Sewing - eg Sewing with Saint Anne which would be easy for her to do herself with minimal input from you. Or even kits from the craft store. Also easy knitting/crochet - I can recommend easy books
2) Drawing - you could get a progam with lessons for her eg the phonics of drawing or the one used by Laura Berquist - Drawing Textbook
3) Musical instrument practice
4) Making Christmas gifts
5) Poetry - listen to poems, memorize and make a book with illustrated poems
6) Get some Bright Minds logic books -to keep her busy
7) Have her set up a blog and do writing on that
8) Learn keyboarding skills on the computer
9) Cooking - just decide on something easy she can do each day - or follow a home ec program like from Pearables or Sue Greggs Cooking for kids
10) How about have her help you with some of your work - cleaning/laundry/younger kids.
11) Have her "teach" the younger kids - set up activities for her to do with them eg cutting/drawing etc
I think that getting yet another curriculum may be more work for you. Saying that - Seton would give her tons to do - she would not be done by 10am!! And the lesson plans are all laid out for her to work independently.
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Marilyn
Blessed with 6 gifts from God
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Mary Chris
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Molly,
I think buying another set of curric might just add to your stress. I think Marilyn and Donna have both given you some good ideas. Here are mine (some are repeats from above)
typing program....if you do typed narrations, maybe she could eventually help you out with this.
My dd12 just learned how to knit and she is knitting away. She plans to make wash cloths for all her friends to give as Christmas gifts.
A geography program, this is the one we are using Trail Guide to World Geography, I bought the ebook for the level we are using so I just print the sheets out.
The poetry program we like is IEW Poetry
There is also calculadder or Quarter Mile Math for extra math practice.
If it is not to much stress, what about a weekly trip to the library and just let her read.
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Blessings, Mary Chris Beardsley
mom to MacKenzie3/95, Carter 12/97 Ronan 3/00 and wife to Jim since 1/92
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Bella
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Hugs to you! I can relate for a slightly different situation. I too agree with the other posters-trying a different route for filling in time. I have to do the same with my DD sometimes, but instead of me coming up with the ideas, it has to come from her.  Things I see her going back to more often, are things that are project-type. Such as working on a big puzzle,sewing project,knitting, coloring(she designs her own mosaics),and brainy type games that she gets frustrated with-but will come back to it nonetheless.Also, writing out a daily, fresh chore to-do list helps my DD-she rebels against the same chores each day.  
Praying for you,
Christy
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Bella
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Molly,
I also wanted to say that during hard times like this, it is so important not to make too many big decisions. I speak from experience.  I have found that making really small changes ends up working better in the long run.
More hugs!
Christy
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LisaR
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as someone who struggles with depression/anxiety, etc, and very high maitenance pregnancies,I feel like all of the above suggestions sound wonderful (and I have received them myself for my 11 y/o) but for me, personally, a "project" or cooking, or drawing was still too overwhelming and "unordered". So, I turned to Seton, after basically badmouthing them for years. My 11 y/o son LOVES the order. (ok, I have a pet peeve about using the word "love" too freely like that- really really likes??!! )
He can keep plenty busy printing off his own lesson plans and checking them off. He is reading alot, which he likes, and this is the first year that he is not done by 10 am, like he was with CHC, and yes, even Sonlight. (I could not do all of the teacher follow through with that either)
I know everyone is very unique and different, but for us, Seton was a homeschool saver last year for oldest ds, and now this year we are seeing history repeat itself. Ds's seem to get a huge sense of satisfaction from Seton, which they did not get from their notebooking, or really almost anything else (although I have to admit, we have loads of half finished "works" around here!) just another thought...
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Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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Cay Gibson
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Molly,
I enhaled your post. 
While I'm not depressed or pregnant at the moment, my dd10 sounds identical to your dd. I'm worried that if I don't develop something for her then she will get depressed.
My first instinct was to look at the different curriculum options with you. Then Marilyn and Donna's posts gave me pause. Then I was agreeing with Mary Chris that "buying another set of curric might just add to your stress."
Christmas is coming. Perhaps find lots of new Christmas-housekeeping magazines and have her plan to decorate the house and make some personalized gifts.
Also, I came to some terms concerning the refining worry that has consumed me lately. It hit me while I was hanging clothes this morning. 
I've been planning, while patiently waiting for Alice's new hospitality book to come out, to do a full-blown hospitality/home ec study with my girls. I realized that is the beauty, peace, and rhythm we need and have been missing.
We have so much happening on the outside of our home, I want us to focus on the good things of home when we're here. I'm getting Alice's book and the "Little Women's" hospitality book.
Anyway, those are my plans. Perhaps this isn't the advice you were looking for but getting your dd to focus on the home could be a tremendous blessing to you during these last months of pregnancy and when the baby comes home.
Giving her the responsibility of getting the house ready for Christmas would be a good motivator.
Break out those Jane Austen DVDs and books. The time period is a lovely peek inside hospitality and home ec.
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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Bridget
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We had a similar experience using Seton last year. My then 11 year old ds thrived on the structure. He and I both liked most of the materials in the sixth grade package.
Some of it was probably 'filling a bucket' but he was interested in much of what he was studying. He will still mention something he read from a specific Seton book. Their lit suggestions are excellent too.
We did enroll to have the lesson plans but did not send work in. He worked right from the plans. They are huge so I divided them up by quarters and just gave him a binder with one quarter at a time. He liked the independence and clear expectations.
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God Bless,
Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
Our Magnum Opus
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LLMom
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Seton has filled a need for us too in the past. It does work well for those structured types. You could just enroll her in a few courses.
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Lisa
For veteran & former homeschool moms
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ALmom
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If you don't want to do a full curriculum, I do have one idea for reading plans - hillside education. They have wonderful literature selections and many of them are historical fiction so you might be able to pick a few to go along with the history you are doing. They have step by step ideas for discussing and synopsis for mom who cannot read as fast as kiddos - or even if she can, she certainly cannot read 6X as fast to keep up with 6 readers.
Another thing I do a lot is look at catelogues - and order the books. Nothing says you cannot go to Seton or Kolbe's web and look at the booklist. Kolbe has more help now with literature for the middle groups than in the past, but to be honest, we have Kolbe plans but don't use them much for the children below high school. I didn't find them quite as helpful in lit for the middle school as I did for high school. (Maybe the newer plans have more but not the ones I have). If you are looking at finding probing questions, Seton won't do it unless they have changed a lot. The questions are all basic recall and then they have a book report. Basically the "book report" is either a character sketch, a paper on the theme, etc.
Personally, I have not seen anything better than hillside for stepping the student through that process and why have the stress of someone else's time constraints. Just an idea that might give enough leeway, yet have a little teacher hand-holding and support to help you discuss or evaluate whether or not the said child is missing ideas or to help discussion starters. There are usually 4 books or so in each grade range - but I use the one at the age and the one below and the one above for any given child depending on what we're wanting to do. I don't know what history topics you are covering but I know there are plenty of Greek and Roman historical fiction from hillside. (We do this with our RC History). I cannot say enough good things about Hillside.
Janet
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teachingmyown
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Thank you for the suggestions. I was talking this over with a good friend this afternoon (hi Tammy!), trying to pinpoint what my daughter needs. One thing she really needs and isn't getting is my attention and affirmation of her efforts. She gets easily discouraged if I (or dh or big brother) do not show GENUINE interest in what she is doing. This has been really hard for me lately. Her older brother teases more than approves and dh isn't very good at faking geniune interest.
So, when I suggest activities such as knitting, piano practice, baking, etc., she usually comes up with a dozen excuses not to do it. She is a perfectionist (where does she get that? ) and if she either doesn't feel pleased with the outcome herself, or feels that no one else really cares, then she just becomes more reluctant to do anything. It doesn't help that I am really inept at the domestic things such as knitting, sewing, gift-making. So, I can't help her when she gets stuck and she just quits.
I really feel for her because she is sandwiched between a 16 yr old brother who teases when he is home and a 9 yr old brother who is very volatile and either loses his temper when they try to play together or just isn't interested in the things she wants to do. I look at my younger girls, four in a row, and think how lucky they are. But my dd11 is lonely. She is trying to turn to me and I am in the midst of my own crisis and so often miss her cues. I am so afraid of her becoming depressed, too.
That is my really long way of saying that the "extra" won't work on a daily basis. I might try a "list" to give her something to do, she is pretty compliant. But I had better be sure there is an emotional "reward" involved.
What LisaR said really rang true and expressed where I am so well. I don't need one more thing to make me feel like I am failing my daughter. If I decide to try to help her by suggesting activities and then I am not able to support her or encourage her, get materials, etc., then we both end up worse off.
The bonus that I see in enrolling in a structured curriculum is not only the daily structure but also that sense of accomplishment, especially if we go with a program that will give her grades. She desparately wants grades and again, that is not where I am.
Tammy and I also talked about how my "idealism" gets in the way sometimes. I pick materials that in my perfect world would be how I want my kids taught. Then I don't follow through. The same is true of my desire to let the children lead the way in picking materials they want. I asked my daughter if she wanted me to enroll her in a program and she said "No, because I probably won't like the books they tell me to use". But maybe there is a time to suck it up and go for less than perfect and just do the work. Honestly, I have considered school for her, at which point all of our flexibility would be out the window anyway. So, to deal with a science or history text that strikes me as boring is still a better option for school for this child.
I am heartened to hear Bridget and both Lisas talk about their positive experiences with Seton, especially when they had doubts about it. I am still leaning toward Kolbe or Oak Meadow, but I don't know. Kolbe's 7th grade looks excellent, 6th grade still pretty boring. Oak Meadow still gives me that feeling of being "living" and creative. I printed off the overview for 6th grade and aske dd to read it.
I know that I am in a bad position to make a big decision. If she weren't so unhappy, I would just continue with the bare bones schoolwork and supplement with lots of books. (I spent over an hour tonight going through various book lists and putting books on hold at the library) I know the next several weeks will fly by, the baby and Advent will be here and then all structure will be lost for a while anyway.
Please keep suggestions coming. I read and re-read them. Prayers for discernment and for both my mental health and dd's mental health would be appreciated too! 
__________________
In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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teachingmyown
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Thanks Janet. I was composing my above novel while you were posting. I will look at Hillside too.
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In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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LisaR
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teachingmyown wrote:
Tammy and I also talked about how my "idealism" gets in the way sometimes. I pick materials that in my perfect world would be how I want my kids taught. Then I don't follow through.
Prayers for discernment and for both my mental health and dd's mental health would be appreciated too! |
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yes, I hear you!! this is me to a "T". I think I and some of my kids are perfectionistic and a bit ADHD at the same time.
I have horrible follow through- it really IS overwhelming to pull something off to completion that is not completely in ordered steps for me. I get discouraged, and so do my kids, with the interruptions that is "life". I am an ideas person and a thinker though- just need someone else to pull it all off, and it is actually SO satisfying with Seton as a mom, and for my son to finally finish so much to completion.
Praying for your daughter's specific needs. I struggled with making sure my oldest at home (now the 11 y/o as the 14 y/o is in school) knew he was appreciated and that he does not have to have the role of "Mother's Helper" just by default that he is "it". That I care a great deal about his education and I really want what is best for him...
Have to scoot. Praying!
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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LisaR
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PS- What does Court think about all of this> I know when my dh finally opened up a bit more about specifically what he desired out of our homeschool, everything went much better. He has always been really involved with/interested in our homeschool, but he admitted that he often got "caught up" in my ideas/enthusiasm plans for school, and then he was puzzled as to why many of them did not last/did not get completed. He is SO happy with Seton! I think he can tangibly "see" the typical homeschool day now, and that was important.
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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teachingmom
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teachingmyown wrote:
| The problem with my daughter is that she finishes her "written work" by 10am most days. This consists of math, handwriting, grammar, science and religion. She will do the reading for history, but is bored with it because we are doing Sonlight Core 3 and I haven't done a good job supplementing the reading to keep it up to her level. |
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Hi Molly,
I looked at your list of what your dd is doing and mentally compared it to what my 11 year old does on a daily basis. Partly because I can't believe yours can finish so quickly -- and mine doesn't finish until the neighborhood school kids are arriving home in the afternoon!
One thing my girls have always done every day is writing. My 11 yo is working through the first half of Lingua Mater this year, so that is what she does for writing about half the time. The other days, she either comes to me for an assignment (something like, "write a narration of the book you just finished") or chooses something herself (an imaginative story - which might take days or weeks to write, a letter to a friend, a freewrite a la Bravewriter, a poem, etc.) Honestly, often I work with her to edit her writing the day after, but sometimes it just stands alone as practice. I read it, but we don't do anything else with it. I plan to use IEW's course part of the time, but haven't yet begun. (Soon, soon!)
Also, my older girls (11 and 13) spend a required period of time in personal reading each day. One half hour to 45 minutes is spent on a living book not particularly related to other areas of study, like classic literature or just good modern kids' lit. I get ideas for this from booklists, conversations here, literature websites, etc. Another half hour is spent on reading a history book. Not a textbook, but real books on the topic we are studying. We are currently studying the Colonial era and I believe the book she just finished is Calico Captive. It does take some effort to get library books at the appropriate reading levels on the current topics, but once you have them in the house, your dd could just work her way through the pile of choices.
For language study, my 6th grader is working on the end of Prima Latina and is about to begin Latina Christiana I soon. She does this independently through the DVD program. I recently learned that the Loudoun County library system has internet access to some of the Rosetta Stone language programs. Maybe yours does too, or your county might have a reciprocal agreement with mine? That would be a great use of her time, and it could be done completely independently. They have many of the typical languages, and even Mandarin Chinese!
My 13 year old completed the Mavis Beacon Typing program during her 6th grade year. Although my current 6th grader is not that interested in becoming proficient at the keyboard yet.
One more thought: If she is breezing through math, do you think she needs more challenge?
Please take all these suggestions with a grain of salt if they seem unhelpful. It doesn't make sense to give her more work, just for the sake of filling up the day. But maybe finding a few meaningful academic subjects to add will help.
__________________
~Irene (Mom to 6 girls, ages 7-19)
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Bookswithtea
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I'm very hesitant to recommend Seton, Kolbe, or even an Oak Meadow because...well...they might bring too much change to your home right now, which could add to both your frustration. But I do understand needing something simple and well laid out...we all have those years, I think.
What about a MODG syllabus, Molly? They are *very* easy to follow, but there is a heavier workload than CHC or relaxed hsing in general. I don't think its the kind of thing a child could just breeze through. I'm not sure if your dd is 5th or 6th grade, but the 5th grade has a ton of readers that are American history related, to go along with what you are doing with SL. Their science is very in the box/answer the questions but it isn't overwhelming. If she is 6th grade, the literature for Ancient Egypt is great, but there is not so much of it that your daughter won't have time to read her own books.
If you need extra readers for her and don't want to go to the library, consider buying something like a set of readers or read alouds from Sonlight and tell her she has to read one a week or so...core 5 is very interesting for this age group...just double check the list and delete the protestant stories (she ought to be able to handle the read aloud load if she is that good of a reader).
For 6th grade MODG, you can order a planner in addition to the syllabus that lays out every week, column by column. It would be easy enough to substitute your math etc for whatever they have listed and do the rest of the work.
Also, I wanted to plug Mavis Beacon typing. We got ours at Costco. It requires zero parent supervision, and even includes a few game type ways to learn. I insist on 20 minutes a day, 4 days a week at your dd's age, so that by the time they are well into jr. high, they can type their own narrations.
My oldest dd is almost 11 (5th grade) and I am seeing some of the same tendencies with her...it may not be entirely your current home environment, but partially the age. She wants *more* but doesn't want to be weighted down with school (she works through till about 1pm, but its almost all independent). She is kind of bored with playing with her littler sisters, and her older brother is a terrible tease. 
What I've been doing is insisting on the typing and flute practice to fill some time, I found one activity that starts in January that she will do to give her something to look forward to, and I have started letting her do things like bake cookies without supervision. I just make sure she understands that if she wants to do it again, that kitchen better be spotless!  The baking kind of fills both that girly creative side, something that is a bit of a challenge, and the positive reinforcement is built in automatically, because who doesn't like cookies!
Hang in there...you are 3rd trimester, too right now. Everything is hard right now.
__________________
Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and  due 9/10
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LisaR
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Molly, another thought I had which does not add stress to my life, but might to some, is joining a good coop or classes for your dd?? She might enjoy the outside stimulation if the right combination of environment and curric. and location could be found?
With my ds's doing Seton and an outside co-op, the pressure is really off me, and yet they are more motivated. When things are going well for me health-wise, we have lots of time still for nature walks and library visits and book unit studies. But when things are difficult in our home, I am so at peace knowing that the older boys can plug along and feel as if they have not been "abandoned" by me!!.
FWIW, MODG drove me nuts because I tried to "tweak" it too much. It was "loose" enough that I kept adding and subtracting til we all were confused! Somehow Seton seems to be rigid enough, but in a good way for our family for now, that ds just goes through every subject, checking it off.
I know that it is "school at home" but some kids/parents might appreciate it for a time and for us it was less stressful than anything else I had done, and I've tried just about all.
I set a tiny goal recently of trying to do the "craft of the week" posted on 4Real, and also sticking to our Wed Library day no matter what. Just these two small things and we are all quite happy, surrounded by structure AND lots of good books!!
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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teachingmyown
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All these ideas! My brain is about to explode! LOL!
We do belong to a co-op. My dd isn't happy with the classes and she stresses over the work, which is interesting, because most of the other kids there don't take it seriously at all.
MODG has always driven me nuts too, I think for the same reason, too tempting to "tweak".
I bought Rosetta Stone this year, but the sound on my computer died. I also got Music Ace Deluxe that they were enjoying when we had sound. I don't have a good typing program, maybe I will get the Mavis Beacon.
Dh doesn't have much to say. He is very against putting kids in school. When I talk about ordering something else, he doesn't understand why I can't work with what we have. He will step in and give some direction, but his follow through is almost as bad as mine. So with us as parents, our poor kids spend a lot of time in limbo waiting for some structure.
A question about Lingua Mater: does this require my time or planning? I want her to have more to do as far as Language Arts, she is only doing Easy Grammar Plus, but I can't be counted on to oversee it.
Lastly, she is not real crafty. She is more outdoorsy, tomboy like. She does want to cook. If I were craftier I think she would put more effort into it.
I realized last night that she is stuck in the pre-adolescent world. Not quite a big kid like her older brother, but not a little kid either. She doesn't know how to handle it and I am still trying to figure it out myself.
This is so hard and I am so not up to it.
(sorry this is jumbled, lots of interruptions to my train of thought.)
__________________
In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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MarilynW
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| Posted: Oct 18 2007 at 12:31pm | IP Logged
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Dear Molly
I have been praying for you. Just a couple of things to add:
1) Re Seton - this may work well if your daughter likes to "check things off" and feel a sense of accomplishment. We had a year of Seton - and it is a good solid Catholic education - your daughter would be independent - she could print out lesson plans or use the ones sent, complete her work and mark her own work. If enrolled she could submit the work online. All with minimum input from you. If you enrolled you could lessen some of the workload to only do essential things. Also if you enroll they are very flexible with things like history and science - last year my dd did Sonlight history and NOEO science plus our own nature walks, birdwatching etc - and we just sent samples of nature notebooks and timelines etc
2) My own advice to you - having gone through a tough time . Just pick your own way of doing things - do not look at blogs or even the forum - it can make you spend too much time looking at different alternatives. Also everyone is at a different phase of your life - so the mama intensive and arty crafty programs are maybe not for you right now - maybe you are just in survival mode with the basics. (Keep it simple)I am a perfectionist too and always seeking for a better way - but I am realizing my limitations and my strengths and trying to focus on the latter. I am trying to make sure that we have an outline schedule and cover basics - anything else is a bonus. It is too easy to compare to others on blogs or even here on the forum - but God gives us the strength to do what we need to.
3) My last advice - again from the recent weeks in my house - is to get some sort of household order - maybe more important than anything else. I am so much more peaceful when the house is running smoothly, everyone is doing their chores and I have an uncluttered peaceful home environment. The kids too benefit from some kind of structure and schedule (however loose). I know this is easier said than done when there is one crisis after another.
Sorry for the mini novel...hope it helps.
__________________
Marilyn
Blessed with 6 gifts from God
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Need "easy" solution for dd11
