| Author | |
Leonie
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 28 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2831
|
| Posted: July 31 2005 at 8:54pm | IP Logged
|
 |
|
<<<...but what struck me was how much the emphasis was on reading....three of the smartest people I know, were not high school graduates...but they were readers....
As my oldest child, Isabella, approaches 3rd grade, I have been really trying to discern what is the best approach. Do we keep doing what we're doing or is it now time to implement more structure? However, my daughter is VERY INTENSE! So, that is why I am feeling this quandry. Structure? How much? >>>>>
Maria posted the above in the Homeschooling With Gentleness thread.
I thought we could address these issues here.
How much structure do you think is needed? And is reading a cornerstone of unschooling?
I am pondering these questions myself and will post later when I have more time. 
Leonie in Sydney
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Cindy
Forum Pro
Joined: Feb 01 2005
Location: Texas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 235
|
| Posted: July 31 2005 at 10:11pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Great questions, Leonie. I will look forward to the posts to come.
I personally think reading is an excellent foundation for all learning. I have readers, so it comes natrually. I would be curious about those with non-readers to hear their thoughts.
I know we are enriched by other things- video, meeting people, nature, etc. But I would not like to have reading gone from our world.
Some of our best memories were sharing read alouds and I see the ideas of all the books we have read incorporated into the thoughts and ideas of my boys as they grow.
We have found the variety of reading has lessened the past few years. Read a louds are passe... (sigh, I miss it!) and they focus on one book or series at a time in their personal reading.
I am trying to enrich by reading aloud short selections by a variety of authors and various styles and topics. Just to strew it... things they would not pick up on their own.
I would think for youngers that read alouds (scheduled) would be great... I have assinged reading, but my boys don't balk at it.. if it is fairly short. I would shy away from a lot of assinged reading if it was a real difficulty for the child as this might push them furhter from reading on their own if it is forced.
Just my thoughts.....
__________________
Cindy in Texas
It Is About The Journey
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
ladybugs
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3732
|
| Posted: Aug 01 2005 at 12:32am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Hi Leonie and Cindy,
I made a boo-boo...these three people did graduate from high school - just not college....however, they are all incredible in their knowledge and applications of so many diverse topics...
I have spoken with Isabella about some ideas for the new year and for us it seems a unit studies approach will be what we'll try. Our first unit will be weather and I'm still trying to figure out our pegs for the day...I think we'll do morning prayers at breakfast, the Angelus at lunch, and our rosary....
Our local TORCH group will be doing a co-op this year...they've done a great job of putting things together and one of the things they'll be offering is a children's choir...Juliana and Sophia will love that!
I think that sometimes, my sense of feeling overwhelmed is the part of me that wants to dig into ALL of my children's interests....and there's only one of me....
Thanks for any ideas!
Love,
__________________
Love and God Bless,
Maria P
My etsy store - all proceeds go to help my fencing daughters!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
misa95ag
Forum Newbie
Joined: July 31 2005
Location: Texas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4
|
| Posted: Aug 01 2005 at 7:13am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Hello,
I am new to this forum but thought I would jump right in here and give my two cents.
I can not imagine not having readers in our house. We are surrounded by books and love to read as a family. We almost (an I pray one day we finally do) have a tv free house so books are our entertainment.
[QUOTE=Cindy]
I personally think reading is an excellent foundation for all learning. I have readers, so it comes natrually. I would be curious about those with non-readers to hear their thoughts.
I know we are enriched by other things- video, meeting people, nature, etc. But I would not like to have reading gone from our world.
Some of our best memories were sharing read alouds and I see the ideas of all the books we have read incorporated into the thoughts and ideas of my boys as they grow.
We have found the variety of reading has lessened the past few years. Read a louds are passe... (sigh, I miss it!) and they focus on one book or series at a time in their personal reading. [QUOTE]
Cindy, I agree completely...read alouds are so wonderful. But we don't stop when the children have outgrown our laps. Think about the old days when families sat around the fire doing lap work and listened to stories. We read a chapter each night at bed time. We do still have little ones and we read the smaller picture books to them during the day but at night, everyone knows there are no pictures and must imagine the pictures in their minds.
We love to read the books that have been made into movies. If the movies are worthy of viewing we compare the two forms. IF they are not worth it to see we explain to the children why the book was better and why the movie can not be watched. There are so many of the Disney movies that I am thinking of that just are better than the movie. Even the children have picked up on this and are glad to have the book read.
As far as structure, I do not encourage too muc hstructure because this can stifle a love for reading. Encourage and continue to rad to them and they will eventually see the joy of reading also. Our 12yo dd loved to read picture books but never seemed to move on to chapter books. I worried but did not press the issue with her. We soon found out that she did like to read but was discouraged by not being able to finish a book in one sitting. We found smaller chapter books and zoom! She now reads at least one book a week and we can hardly stop her.
Our other children see us all reading and want to do it also. Even our 21mo will sit in a pile of books and "read." It is such a joy to watch! No structure just showing our love of reading and the others seem to follow.
__________________
"Lord, Let me get through today, and I shall not fear tomorrow." St. Philip Neri
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Cindy
Forum Pro
Joined: Feb 01 2005
Location: Texas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 235
|
| Posted: Aug 01 2005 at 7:37am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Hello!
I think it is wonderful how you didn't pressure your 12yodd to read chapter books.... I remember those days when they were younger.. thinking they *should* be at a certain level b/c of age... or 'grade level'. But just having great choices availalbe and being supportive in their efforts to read is really all they need.
I just think how it would feel to me if my dh was hanging over my shoulder wondering *when* I was going to graduate from Grisham to Tolstoy...  I don't need such pressure! But, if he were to read an excerpt he loved from Tolsoy to me.. and show me his excitiment, I might pick it up myself.
And, yes I completely agree about the read alouds. I do hope they resume one day. My oldest feels a little contrived in that area and it became difficult to continue long read alouds. But I still do short ones and will keep the door open to longer ones. I think, as you say, maybe the right book would do it. I think he enjoys the control of reading, stopping, thinking, and he tells me he is not an 'audio learner'.. lol I know I am and love books on tapes.
__________________
Cindy in Texas
It Is About The Journey
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Cindy
Forum Pro
Joined: Feb 01 2005
Location: Texas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 235
|
| Posted: Aug 01 2005 at 7:44am | IP Logged
|
|
|
ladybugs wrote:
I think that sometimes, my sense of feeling overwhelmed is the part of me that wants to dig into ALL of my children's interests....and there's only one of me....
Thanks for any ideas!
Love,
|
|
|
Hi Maria!
Reading your post I thought of something I recently read on www.bravewriter. com from Julie Bogart. It has clarified things for me here as we start into fall planning. Your unit study sounds really fun.. sometimes it is nice to have focal point - kind of lets one let go of all the other things we could be doing and enjoy what we are doing.
Have fun!
Cindy
From Bravewriter:
Start with ONE thing.
Pick one activity or idea that sounds fun to you and do that first. Do it well. Don’t add to it.
So if you want to read poetry with your kids, go to the library and find a good poetry book. Just get a poetry book. Don’t get sixteen other books to read.
Share the book with your kids. Leave it on the coffee table. Read it at bedtime or with tea or during dinner. Let your kids read and hold it. Mark your favorite poems with bookmarks and reread them. Enjoy the poetry.
Too often we rush through the ideas on our list of good ideas and then wonder why nothing is taking hold. Stop. Read the ONE book and see how much you can get out of it for a week.
Maybe you’ll illustrate poems, or copy them over, or read them at the dentist’s office, or memorize one to share with visiting relatives. Maybe you’ll want to write a poem yourself. Maybe your kids will. Maybe this book will lead you to another book of poems or to one single poet. Let it do its work. Don’t force it.
The point is that if you make poetry just one of the many things you must do this week to achieve the “Brave Writer Lifestyle,” you may not enjoy the poetry. You might find yourself thinking about how after you read the poetry book, you ought to be copying quotes into copy books. And what about freewriting? And will that subscription to the Arrow turn out to be worth it? Suddenly your mind is off of the poem and on “curriculum planning.”
Don’t fall for that trap.
Slow down. Start with one thing. You can build on one good experience.
When you have exhausted the poetry book, pick the next enticing idea. (Don’t pick the one you think you should pick - I give you permission to follow your enthusiasm.) Enjoy it. Live it.
What if that next idea is to listen more conscientiously to your kids? Then think of all the ways you can be a better listener. Can you take one out for coffee, another on a walk, swim with one at the Y, see a movie and then chat about it on the way home with yet another?
Do it! It counts. See where it leads.
You can’t plan time for listening and then fill up your days with lots of busy work. Focus on listening and let that be the frame of reference for everything you do that week.
Allow this year to be the one where you taste-test all the great ideas. Some will stick. Some will bomb. The ones that energize you and your kids will become natural habits because they make you and your kids happy, and you see fruit in their lives.<<
__________________
Cindy in Texas
It Is About The Journey
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Willa
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 28 2005
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3881
|
| Posted: Aug 01 2005 at 11:31am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Leonie wrote:
How much structure do you think is needed? And is reading a cornerstone of unschooling?
|
|
|
When Maria posted this on the other thread, it made me think, too.
For one thing, I wasn't sure -- Maria?-- if when you said your oldest is very intense, if you meant she would RESIST structure and it would become a full time job imposing it? or if you thought she NEEDED the structure because of her intensity? It SOUNDED more like the first choice.
I believe structure should be generally need-based. I have a couple of kids who really seem to need some predictability -- anchors in their day, a pattern or sequence. But I suppose the goal of structure is SELF-structure and it is supposed to be an AID and support so if it wasn't clearly going to benefit the family, I wouldn't do it just because someone says 3rd grade is SUPPOSED to be more structured, or something.
About reading and unschooling -- I love to read and feel I got most of my education from books. I was a bit of a bookworm and I know I "escaped" into a book world more than was ideal.
SO, I don't think it has to be a cornerstone of unschooling -- maybe more like one of the four pillars??
-- reading and read-alouds is part of a picture that also includes
---real life experience (nature study, constructing things, family jobs and responsibilities)
-- talk, discussion and relationships, and
---prayer and liturgical life (at least for Catholic families!)
I think I just accidentally paraphrased Elizabeth's Real Books, Real Life, Real Learning and the Real Presence! 
__________________
AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
ladybugs
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3732
|
| Posted: Aug 01 2005 at 12:07pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Hi Ladies,
Thanks for hashing all this out for me. As I sit here, I'm on the verge of tears trying to figure things out and I'm just tired, too. I've been taking my children swimming alot this summer - and I have enjoyed it tremendously - watching their progress has been AWESOME! There have been "tangible" results....
I was thinking Isabella might benefit from the structure...but when I have tried to have more structure with her in the past, I thought that we weren't successful because of maturation issues....I really think now that she could handle it and benefit from it...and in a certain sense, I feel that she needs it...but maybe I should have a talk with her about it???
So that's where I am today....I know I fall into the trap sometimes of my homeschool doesn't look like her homeschool....also, if you were to know my children - hey, Willa's met them....but if you were to know them and if I were to describe them to you as colors...they would be flourescents! There's no beige here! And sometimes, with all that energy and the need to expend that energy, mom FEELS beige or is that blue?
I really need to buy Elizabeth's book....
Btw, Cindy, I really liked your suggestion about listening....it is the key.
Love and God Bless,
__________________
Love and God Bless,
Maria P
My etsy store - all proceeds go to help my fencing daughters!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
ladybugs
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3732
|
| Posted: Aug 01 2005 at 12:12pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
BTW, Cindy,
I loved what you posted about Bravewriter and the suggestions....
Better run....all of the precious treasures are up now and I need to get breakfast for them....we had a late night...
Love,
__________________
Love and God Bless,
Maria P
My etsy store - all proceeds go to help my fencing daughters!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Leonie
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 28 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2831
|
| Posted: Aug 02 2005 at 12:19am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Willa,
I enjoyed reading your "four pillars of Catholic unschooling".
For us, the corewithin this is interests and passions, finding joys and being present. I find these are even more important for us than books! Gasp!
Of course, wrapping this core are your four pillars.
Leonie in Sydney
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Willa
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 28 2005
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3881
|
| Posted: Aug 04 2005 at 11:09am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Leonie wrote:
For us, the core within this is interests and passions, finding joys and being present. I find these are even more important for us than books! Gasp!
|
|
|
Leonie,
Reading your post I had a lightbulb moment and almost felt like I grasped the point of Catholic unschooling for just that second. Like what Chesterton said about seeing a sign to a strange place "Mooreeffoc" and then realizing it was Coffeeroom spelled backwards.
The next moment, it was slipping away again... but I intend to ponder it today
Right now, my babies are waking up and I feel I should practice being present for them 
__________________
AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
ladybugs
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3732
|
| Posted: Sept 30 2005 at 1:42pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Hi Ladies,
Dh is on a conference call so I'm stealing a minute here.
Today, Isabella is making her own book on Genghis Khan. She's totally into it. I printed up some info on the computer and some pictures that she could use. She also was very into (I'm amazed) doing copywork on Genghis Khan. We'll also credit whatever sources used. Today, I also showed her an example of a lapbook. My first ever lap book was on Genghis Khan. While I didn't sell her on doing her book as a lapbook, she thought it was "cool" how we compiled the info and displayed it.
Anyhow, watching all of this transpire this week I've been thinking alot about how financially challenged people (that's be poor - like us) educate their children. It would be prayers, books, time and exposure to the arts. That's our recipe. Historically, like Abraham Lincoln, he read...and then read some more....so because of our family's limited finances, we use our library voraciously. It's really a matter of using whatever resources we have access to and can find - and whatever God provides for us. I've never ceased to be amazed at how one day we'll be "into" one thing and the next day, there the same topic will come up in our daily living.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that books can be the foundation of unschooling.
I better get my attention back to the kids. Isabella's in the kitchen working on her book, but Joseph has turned on the hose in the backyard....
Gotta go.
Love and God Bless,
__________________
Love and God Bless,
Maria P
My etsy store - all proceeds go to help my fencing daughters!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Leonie
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 28 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2831
|
| Posted: Sept 30 2005 at 7:54pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Maria,
I have always felt that the public libraries are a god send for unschoolers - free ( except for fines!) and many good books - especially if I go in "open" and not looking for a specific book.
Your dd's book sounds lovely.
__________________
Leonie in Sydney
Living Without School
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Structure? Reading?
