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Marybeth
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| Posted: June 24 2005 at 8:57pm | IP Logged
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This topic may be discussed somewhere else so I apologize if I am wasting anyone's time or taking up space.
What do you say when veteran homeschoolers belittle your choices in regards to your educational philosophies? I can't believe how people think if you follow a prepackaged curriculum and attend daily Mass then you are a Catholic homeschooler. It seems if you fall short of this you are just on the fringe and not fully committed. I know I should not care about what others think and say and just do what is right for my family. I just want to articulate well my choices and not stir up any trouble.
(sigh) Maybe I should just give up even trying to discuss CM, unschooling, real learning and just nod my head often.
...I may be a bit too Irish for that! 
Marybeth
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mom3aut1not
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Marybeth,
Some rambly thoughts....
Would it help if I got you a seal of approval from the Catholic hser I know has been hsing for 24 years? <g> Or even mine? I am finishing my 14th year of hsing, and I still have much to learn. I know my 24 -years-of- hsing-and-counting friend is still learning and wants to learn more about Charlotte Mason in particular.
I don't think you can change their minds. You mgiht remind them of that quote by St. Augustine -- the one that ends "...in all things charity."
It may also be that they are threatened. I know that my mother felt I was criticizing her by my enthusiatic embrace of breastfeeding and a more attached style of mothering. I wasn't, but she thought I was. As I saw it, she did the best she knew how to do. It was all the more sad that she wanted to nurse me, but the nurses convinced she couldn't nurse a premie. In any case, she inferred from my doing something different that I thought she had done the right thing. Maybe they feel the same way? Your innocent enthusiasm might be perceived as implicit criticism. If that is the case, perhaps some genuine appreciation of the difficulties they faced might help? It was a lot harder back in the dim, dark ages when we couldn't even buy stuff from Seton..... much less all the wonderful stuff available now.
It is also quite posibly the case that such mothers hsed only because they didn't have a Catholic school they approved of. That is, if a terrific and affordable Catholic school moved next door, they might well stop hsing. They are happy with a school format -- they only want it to be Catholic. In that case, if you aren't doing "school", you aren't educating I guess.<sigh>
It may even be the case that they genuinely believe that the parochial schools of the '50's are the ultimate and perfect form of Catholic education. I went to the recent IHM conference. I didn't attend any talks, but I heard of one that disturbed me. Apparently the speaker opined that classical hsing or CM hsing or Montessori hsing can't be properly Catholic ways to hs children. Personally I think that is extremely silly. Even if Charlotte Mason was not Catholic and had some incorrect ideas, her method was based on her experiences with children. As for Montessori -- she was a devout Catholic! And classical hsing? Please!
Anyway, even if they don't go that far, the ladies you talked to may be of "The Parochial Schools of the 1950's are the best if not the only way to have a Catholic education and we must hew as closely as possible to that model" school of thought. Personally I shudder at the thought of trying to replicate a parochial school in my home. If anyone has the strength of will to do that..... well, she must be formidable. I'm not. Even if I was, I wouldn't try to do that.
As far as I know, the only way of hsing that can't be Catholic is the Principle Approach. Anything else can be done in a Cahtolic way imo. Now I firmly believe that some ways are better than others, but 1) I'm not the Pope. I'm not infallible in anything, not even in hsing.<g>. 2) If parents are not neglecting (and I mean true neglect, not just being different from me or standard approaches) the education of their children, it's no one else's business. 3) It's not my place to judge anyone else. A friend of mine with an XL family -- it's big even by the standards of Catholic hsers -- cannot hs in the same way I do. She can't. She also doesn't need to. She is attending to the needs of her children in the best way she can *in her circumstances*. The ladies you speak of would probably say she isn't doing enough; I think she is nearly a saint and doing far more than I could ever do.
Both of my friends are amazing Catholic mothers. I don't agree with them on everything, but I listen to them with respect. They are also open to what other people have to say and willing to learn. They are humble and open.
God grant that I may be so always.
In Christ,
Deborah
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Leonie
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Marybeth,
I commiserate with you.
I have spent my whole homeschool life being considered not Catholic enough by many people.  I just write and speak at groups and know that some people are interested in CM etc and others are not.
I tend to not talk about my homeschool and what we do, at outings and meetings, unless specifically asked. I listen to others and I realise that I still have lots to learn so the listening is good for me!
Now, if someone is really interested in our way of homeschooling - well, you can't shut me up!
Leonie in Sydney
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mom3aut1not
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| Posted: June 24 2005 at 10:32pm | IP Logged
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Marybeth,
Ooops!
The last sentence could be misinterpreted. I am not meaning to imply that I am humble and open -- only that I hope God will grant me the grace of being so.
In Christ,
Deborah
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cathhomeschool
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| Posted: June 25 2005 at 8:16am | IP Logged
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Marybeth,
This "attack" is no different in many ways than the attacks made by those who disagree with homeschooling all together or with our faith. In these cases you are facing skepticism from someone who comes from a completely different way of thinking. When someone criticizes something that I deeply believe in (be it homeschooling, our Catholic faith, lifestyle, or whatever), the best response that I can give is to quickly pray that the Holy Spirit will be present in the conversation, and then listen and gently question their concerns. Maybe they have valid points that I have not considered. Maybe their concerns are typical (like socialization or a solid knowledge of our faith) and can be resolved. Maybe they just think that they're opinions are superior and are purposely trying to belittle or offend me. (Hopefully this is rarely the case -- the "purposely" part.) No matter what they're reasons, by listening and trying to calmly and prayerfully respond, I stand to learn a lot and grow to be a more loving, respectful person. After all, there are many paths that lead to the Father, and mine is not the only or best one.
Now, I'm not saying that this is always my response (unfortunately), nor do I take the time to respond this way to every stranger or acquaintance, but I think that this is one of the best ways in which *I* can respond (because I tend to be very strongly opinionated and have no trouble expressing that opinion!  ) In the end, if the conversation is getting nowhere, I can always conclude by saying, "Well, I respect your opinion and thank you for sharing your concerns, but I wholeheartedly disagree and am at peace with the decisions that our family has made." Ultimately, the best I can do is to try not to take the comments personally, and if I come away from the conversation questioning my decisions or the direction our family is going, then I try to turn that over to the Holy Spirit, praying that He will either grant me peace if we are doing God's will, or help me to see the error in my ways. As I said, there are many paths to the Father, and my (and dh's) job is to continually discern our path and then have peace with it come what may.
Like Leonie, I don't really talk about our homeschool unless asked ...but when asked, like Leonie, I can't shut up!
__________________
Janette (4 boys - 22, 21, 15, 14)
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Willa
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Marybeth,
It may be partly a regional thing. Around where I live most of the Catholic homeschoolers are basically eclectic hsers or unschoolers. (and there are not very many of them, and lots of them only hs up to high school!) We don't get the advantages of the intense networking and support, but neither do we get the expectations and pressure to fit into a mold.We do get some skepticism about our choice to hs in the first place, so that's been the most pressure I've felt.
I guess I don't talk much about what we do, either, unless I am asked, and it's surprising how little I am asked.
When I do talk about it with other hsers, we usually talk about "what works" rather than a philosophy. I'd have such a hard time explaining CM to someone who didn't already know about her. I'm probably not Irish enough! my background is Scots/Dutch and I'm only Irish by marriage! Rather, we might talk about using literature-based learning, or something like that.
The leader of our Catholic hs in the nearest city (60 miles away) unschools and her oldest daughter is now getting her Master's Degree!
Rambling, I guess.... my main point is that every situation you live in will have its blessings and drawbacks and what the current of thought is in a local place is often only slightly representative of what the real "truth" is, so all of us Christians seem to have to learn to live in a bit of discomfort even while trying to seek out likeminded people and learn from what un-likeminded people do RIGHT without adopting their methods wholesale.
Aidan wants to count so I guess that's my bell to conclude this 
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AMDG
Willa
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tovlo4801
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| Posted: June 25 2005 at 9:34am | IP Logged
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Marybeth,
Willa's comment about what the mood in the region is started me thinking. Our region is probably heavily classical or Seton school. There seems to be a large number of Catholic homeschoolers here, so there is a little of that pressure to fit in. I actually try to talk about what we do with people a lot and no one usually seems interested. (That's part of why I love being here so much. You guys will all talk with me about homeschool philosophy.) Anyway, I wanted to share a story with you that might encourage you.
I was at the park about a month ago with two people from our parish. One is a good friend who doesn't homeschool, but who used to and the other is a new homeschooling dad that also attends our co-op. This was about the time that the unschooling conversations started up here on this forum and so that sort of philosophy was strongly on my mind. When the conversation at the park turned to homeschool, I very naturally talked about things from the perspective I was at. It was a very relaxed perspective. The homeschooling dad (who favors CM and who's wife is a trained Montessori instructor) seemed on board with me most of the time, but there were a couple of times when what I said was particularly "unschooly" that I got some strange and skeptical looks. I assumed he thought that I was a bit "out there". About a month later, he e-mailed me and asked if I could direct him to some resources about unschooling. He said that he was thinking seriously about some form of it. I was quite surprised because I thought he disapproved of what I had been saying. Instead, it might have been unfamiliar, but was obviously something he found intriguing enough to research more.
I think sometimes you can be an example of another way of looking at things and you might be surprised to find out that those who seemed to disapprove were actually intrigued. Not necessarily, but it is a possibility.
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mom3aut1not
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Marybeith,
It is kind of funny. Where we lived before (elsewhere in MD), almost all the new hsers chose to use Kolbe, They were politely uniinterested in other approaches or materials.
I wonder how hsing styles vary exactly. What, if any, connection is there between using a prepared curriciulum and length of time hsing? How does a person's primary reason for hsing affect their choice of hsing method or philosophy? What characteristics do people that choose a particular way to hs share? I bet some sociologist could study one of more of these questions for a PhD thesis!
Hhmmmm.....
In Christ,
Deborah
Mom to Lisa 22, Katie 19, Kristin 17, and Joseph 5
Leaving on vacation soon,,,,,
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mrsgranola
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I would also love to see a study on this. I think I see more HSers either getting more relaxed or quitting as they have larger families and the oldest ones get towards highschool age.
JoAnna in NC
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mom3aut1not
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| Posted: June 25 2005 at 9:49pm | IP Logged
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JoAnna,
Then I would be the exception as I got more structured as time went on. Perhaps hsers tend toward the middle as time goes on?
In Christ,
Deborah
who has a disabled dd about to graduate
Mom to Lisa 22, Katie 19, Kristin 17, and Joseph 5
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ALmom
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| Posted: June 27 2005 at 6:27pm | IP Logged
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This is turning into an interesting area of speculation. I have found that avoiding labels in most settings usually fosters better communication. If I used the word unschooling, I'm liable to be interpreted as being negligent just from misunderstanding. However, if we simply talk about what our children have accomplished or what has worked or what has grabbed their interest at the moment, we can have generally productive conversations. Of course, I'm not quite sure how I would label our hsing anyways. When younger, we would clearly be unschooling. By the age I have to record, due to the number of children in the family, I make use of some schoolish looking workbooks and probably look like a hodge-podge of CM, Montisorri, classical(or traditional), and unschooling (in some subjects). By late middle/high school we are probably more classical. We're still searching for that comfortable fit for our family. We also tend to do different things with different children.
I do know that at least in our cover school, we are free to do things our own way and the administrator is great in that regards. I do know there are some mental images that come to mind when different methods are mentioned by those unfamiliar with them.
Classical sometimes gets people thinking that you do a lot of Greek and Latin and read pagan authors from early on. The fear is that you are inundating your 1 grader with detailed discussion of the Oedipus conflict or something. I guess you could do this but the classical schoolers that I know use as much care as I do in selecting age appropriate materials and content. Kolbe is offering more and more Catholic texts in the younger grades too. Reading tons of stuff on ancient Greek and Rome doesn't define classical education. I know when we tried to choose between Seton and Kolbe, Seton viewed Kolbe as not as Catholic based on this assumption.
I'm not sure what people think about CM. If they are unfamiliar with her, they probably don't have a clue. This may mean they associate it as unschooling and lacking in discipline and direction. However, if you are talking about specifics your children are doing or things they have enjoyed reading or display a lapbook they've made - I bet most people would think that's neat (they may not want or be able to do it themselves, but I'd bet they'd come away with project ideas).
The term unschooling (and Montisorri is generally lumped in here due to misunderstanding) most often evokes images of children digging in the mud, playing(and not at productive stuff) all day long, etc, etc. It seems like sheer neglect. The problem, of course, is that a great deal of learning takes place and most Catholic unschoolers I know have modified unschooling to take into account the effects of original sin. I find that in a group unfamiliar with the method, they are more open to seeing what our children are doing if it comes without labels. What are you doing in school this week can be truthfully answered with a description of dc latest passion and how this has helped them develop some particular skill without ever saying unschooling unless pressed.
You might end up with questions - trying to comprehend how you have such an educated child with so many unschoolish sounding activities. Then you have an open heart ready to hear what you have to say because they have already seen that your child is not an incompetent.
I also found that being honest with each other about our uncertanies helps ease pressure. We have noticed certain things - like the 8 yo I just never got around to doing school with (I was overwhelmed with vision therapy at the time for different children) and how guilty I felt and he turns out to be our best scholar! Others, we started out with the intent of following the Moore's (waiting to see readiness, real learning, and a sort of unschooling/CM approach). We never experienced the aha experience of excitement. The children would never pick up a book to read it, although the oldest did teach herself to read. At some point I had to face that for whatever reason, things were no longer working for us - we went through various attempts at greater and lesser structure (assuming that we'd made a mistake or that our family size required more structure, etc.) only to find out that the real problem was vision in all the children. The 2nd dd had the worst problem and made no progress for several years before we found the problem. We made a decision to basically drop school - other than a math sheet with 5 problems on a page, oral religion discussion and read-alouds. I instinctively felt that playing tug of war with her eyes was not going to help. It was very scarey and we didn't really speak of it to anyone other than our administrator. We turned out to have made the correct decision in hindsight, but I'm not sure I would have been able to really accept a lot of suggestions at that point in our life because we were so fearful ourselves. I put every hs how to book in a hidden corner and operated on sheer instinct, I felt so vulnerable. One year after therapy, she had sped past her grade level without any instruction.
I tend to see what is not working so I like ideas from someone whom I sense is not judging me. I can end up getting very confused and panicky if inundated with too many different "this is the only way to go" type things.
I also don't like to feel like I'm cornered in a box. I can appreciate a Setoners sense of covering the basics from the detailed lesson plans, and someone to call with a geometry question or grammar question. I can appreciate the desire to use Catholic providers. I just couldn't deal with lack of ability to change course, do things my own way, etc. I also discovered that the school operated on assumptions that I didn't share. I also know some people who have found Seton a wonderful support for their family, and it does work for them and they have somehow found a way to make it work for them instead of being a slave to it - I just couldn't do it.
I do wonder if some of the stress discussed does have to with regional differences. Our area tends to be very independent minded as far as hs go. One of the arts of it all is to really recognize the parents as the primary educators of the children and realize this is where the decision has to be made. We make different prudential judgements based on the same principles. The only time I run into trouble are when I run into someone who wants to make a matter of prudence into a matter of church doctrine. This can come across in many areas besides how to hs - modesty, wearing the veil, tridentine or novos ordo, whether girls should wear dresses only, whether swimming is immoral as a coed activity, and on and on.
A curious aside - now that I've spent this whole note talking about not applying labels: how would you classify CHC lesson plans?
Gotta go help dh (keep toddler from getting squished while they move furniture back into dd room after our feeble attempt to paint). Probably a good thing as I think my post is rather rambling. Please excuse my nuttiness.
Janet
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Leonie
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Janet,
I also don't like labels or boxes. But I *do find that other people sometimes want to use labels so they can put me in their box. But I and my homeschool and my dc don't fit any box!
I haven't seen the CHC lesson plans so I can't comment there.
Leonie in Sydney
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Willa
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ALmom wrote:
| One of the arts of it all is to really recognize the parents as the primary educators of the children and realize this is where the decision has to be made. We make different prudential judgements based on the same principles. The only time I run into trouble are when I run into someone who wants to make a matter of prudence into a matter of church doctrine. |
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Your post was very good, Janet. Yes, I think God planned families to be diverse and gave them primary authority to teach their children for that reason, within the boundaries of general principles. We are meant to serve and enrich each other, not compete or conform. That's a bottom-line principle for me, too, and of course it IS an art -- if something is working for our family, we want to defend that choice for our family and even proselytize, ie persuade others that it is a viable alternative especially if we see them burdened and oppressed by a method that isn't working for them. But we don't want to try to communicate that we think it is the "only way". Nor do we want to lock OURSELVES into thinking that "one way" is the "best way" at all times. That balance is definitely an "art" and a matter of prudence! Good point!
Deborah -- I too have become more structured as time goes on. I think part of it is Elizabeth's laundry logistics analogy -- as family size grows and the children get older, moms may naturally put certain systems into place just to keep things running smoothly and avoid glitches. In other words, the "system" is not imposed from outside but comes as a response to the needs of the family, so it's still "natural" structure though it may not always look like it.
I suppose it's even more true, possibly, with special needs children because one wants to avoid missing some big gap in their development -- one can't count as much on the "natural growth process"? I know that after having Aidan, I became much more vigilant about milestones for Patrick and even for the older children.... not that I panic when they are late in something but I may work harder on "prereadiness" skills and tracking down WHY a kid is late in reading or writing or whatever.
But aside from all that, I do think CM-type "whole methods" tend to be natural "therapy" and lead to progress for ALL developmental systems, and that's why those methods work across a wide variety of situations.
That's getting away from the main point a bit, perhaps, but maybe I can tie it in by saying that thinking in flexible, broad ways, exploring alternatives (within the general absolute principles, of course!), is good for us individually and for the whole homeschool and Catholic community. So yes, labelling can be a convenient shorthand at times but it can also lead to stereotyping and more or less marginalizing others.
__________________
AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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Meredith
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mom3aut1not wrote:
Marybeith, I wonder how hsing styles vary exactly. What, if any, connection is there between using a prepared curriciulum and length of time hsing? How does a person's primary reason for hsing affect their choice of hsing method or philosophy? What characteristics do people that choose a particular way to hs share? I bet some sociologist could study one of more of these questions for a PhD thesis!
In Christ,
Deborah
Mom to Lisa 22, Katie 19, Kristin 17, and Joseph 5
Leaving on vacation soon,,,,, |
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And now to add more to this, I am wondering how *age of children* being home schooled and *age of mother/father* doing the teaching related to how we choose curriculums (or not) and what methods we choose.???
In my case I feel I am an older mother teaching younger children, as my oldest is just entering 4th grade (public school age standard) and my youngest is 2 months.
What are anyone's thoughts on this and how your age and the ages of your children are affected by our choices??
(Hope this makes sense, I think I need another cup of tea today)
__________________
Meredith
Mom of 4 Sweeties
Sweetness and Light
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ALmom
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Interesting!
I teach children from 2 yo to 17 yo. There is a difference in how structured I am with the different ages. I do nothing structured with anyone under mandatory state reporting age (ie our 1 graders teach themselves from manipulatives, own interest and whatever is sitting around the house) When I just had one we did more read alouds and discussion and I got excited about things and went off in my own directions with the dd more. IE I did more in trying to entice, lead, explore, etc. I'm not sure all this helped or hindered and we did discover that this poor dd got sick to her stomach after 20 minutes of close work so no wonder she hated chapter books and math. (This problem has since been corrected but she still does have difficulty relaxing her eyes).
By the time of 2 grade, I do like to make sure there are a few subjects covered in some documentable way for legal protection. The one thing that makes things difficult this way is that my children tend to have a huge imbalance in reading and writing levels (they are great readers and thinkers for the most part) but balk at anything requiring handwriting. If they had begun to write stories, draw pictures, etc. of things we had been reading, I think I would have felt comfortable proceeding with some math and discussion thrown in and left things a lot more unstructured. We did discover a vision problem which explains some of why none of this would happen for us and sometimes made even reading comprehension difficult. But even with our stronger "scholars" I would feel a need for a little more structure, especially as we had more children and discovered that none of our babies/toddlers nap. This allowed us to get something done on cranky baby days. Also I needed something that could travel when our oldest became more involved(a real need for her). Of course I can end up doing some really silly things here - like boring the 8 yo who taught himself to read Lord of the Rings and having unexplainable, nutty panic because we never did phonics (of course he played a bunch of phonics games I never knew about) and making him do a phonics controlled reader/workbook before realizing this is really silly. (I had an aha experience reading the post about reading and phonics). I have to laugh at myself and look at the child. This child loves doing scales for piano - he is on his third scale and loves it. He likes doing real work on real things - no silly stories for him please. He doesn't want children's picture books on animals - there isn't enough info to satisfy him.
By middle school age I usually hit a panic realizing that maybe we ought to make sure we have some grammar rules and writing assignments and I tend to have more structure, especially when I notice big gaps in subject areas.
By high school, I generally look very structured.
At least that is how it has gone so far. I do not think that more structure is necessarily imperitive as children get older, that just is a natural time to get drawn to it from deficiencies you see and assume are method based. (Some of our imbalances have to do with vision problems we discovered and have corrected or are correcting with different children) Now I am trying to find a new way - more discussion with the youngers without over-directing their learning (we've discovered all kinds of interests by me not gettting in the way) and a few workbooks/projects to encourage writing and fine motor development. I want the planned stuff very light and doable in an hour or less for the real young ones so that we can continue to allow more free-exploration.
I may try to set up some appropriate Montissori type activities and have that available again - with some things for the older as well. The highschooler will still look more structured but we will agree on what we'll be doing together to incorporate her interests and try to keep the pace reasonable.
I have tried to correct that imbalance in writing because it makes working with 6 difficult and it makes for some very frustrated 4th grade and up. They also need to practice those skills once eye skills are in place because of developmental things that didn't happen. Our 8 yo scholar cannot cut very well at all and his writing is way too large for the age (these are all things that practice corrects now that eye skills are corrected )- the 2 yo does better with cutting and loves it so we have planned activities to work on skills here that allow for both to work on cut and create or something. Workbooks can help here too.
I did a lot of creative writing with the oldest when she was younger - and she learned tons from it. I think we neglected writing in content areas - so I want some of that with all my children now, even if it is a few sentences or a written form of narration. Because of the huge gap between writing skills and what is in their head this can sometimes be very frustrating and something they are not likely to compensate for without a little nudging - so I do have assignments.
I'm trying to get more organized (by sheer necessity) without becoming a school at home. I still do need to schedule - one idea is to have everyone on English at the same time - do read-alouds, narrations, whatever grammar/spelling presentations might be relevant. I do have to have independent work for children to do or we all go nuts and workbooks (if they are CHC style and not overwhelming) are a benefit here. So in some ways I am looking a little more structured on the outside, but trying to relax more. With structure - I know the general direction and feel freer to go with the inspiration of the moment if that makes any sense.
I tend to be more structured in some subjects than others and that depends on the child. (With our oldest dd, we only had one year of any kind of specific grammar program but I didn't worry about it because she enjoyed it, knew more about it than I did and seemed to naturally pick it up from reading. She was in total charge here. I noticed that she totally avoided any kind of history or science reading and we became structured in those subjects for her because it seemed the only way to get it done - not immediately, but after several years of avoiding it and not being enticed by anything fun. She at least now has an idea on how to study for the subjects and can learn them when she needs them or has to. Another dd, is pretty self-directed in history as she has no problem finding all kinds of things to do. I had to require her to do some grammar just to get her to begin and end with capital letters. I am beginning to ask for more documentation of her learning in history (to get some written work going - paragraph writing etc.) I have one child that could probably be a total unschooler with a little occassional prod as he just is full of inquiry about everything - but I have to require handwriting and it might as well be done in subject areas so I have proof of subjects for state requirements.
I am hoping to allow the child with the driven interest in an area more free reign in their strong areas and use it as a spring point for written work and Friday family presentations (dh suggested an oral presentation on Fridays to address that imbalance and help with public speaking) in the hopes that it may inspire others in the family. I guess I'm trying to take advantage of what could be positives in a large family and make it work for us.
One area that tends to influence our structure or lack therof is whether or not there is a toddler in the house. When we have toddlers (especially very active and demanding ones), we do tend to fall back on whatever lesson plan is available just because my time is so scarce. This could probably be true anytime there is a crisis requiring a lot of mom's time.
My guess is that all the things mentioned have something to do with the amount of structure, as do the personalities of the children.
One thing I am pondering and trying to figure out how to do is have a relaxed plan which takes advantage of each child's special strengths for the benefit of the whole family. In order for some of this to happen, we have to have a schedule. I am hoping that 8 yo delight in science will entice the rest of us science illiterates to actually learn something. I am hoping to somehow draw out our 13 yo "lawyer" to discuss what she is reading to help the rest of us ponder literature and history, etc.
I also have to take children to vision therapy 2 days per week so there do have to be things done without mom - if they take off on a project that's great but if they don't then we may end up with something more schoolish looking.
I'm afraid we look like a very disorganized household with a pretty crazy (and maybe lazy) mom and that is all probably true - but it is what our school looks like and feels like. I have extremely detailed lesson plans that each child has - they follow parts of it that entice them, we end up ignoring parts and somewhere along in the year we are hardly following them at all. Mid year and end of year we assess or at any crisis point for the child and sometimes we discuss, tweak, adjust or require something. I try to listen to the child, assess realistically and still move forward. I am not big on grading although grades are required for my cover school - so at some point I come up with some gut reaction and give a grade for the younger kids - I don't always show them a grade. I am more traditional with the high schooler and enlist outside help for assessment although I do retain final say.
Janet
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cathhomeschool
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| Posted: July 01 2005 at 7:25am | IP Logged
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ALmom wrote:
| (dh suggested an oral presentation on Fridays to address that imbalance and help with public speaking) in the hopes that it may inspire others in the family. |
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What a great idea! We might try that too, if I can get organized enough to get it on the schedule and remember to follow through.
ALmom wrote:
| One area that tends to influence our structure or lack therof is whether or not there is a toddler in the house. When we have toddlers (especially very active and demanding ones), we do tend to fall back on whatever lesson plan is available just because my time is so scarce. |
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Interesting... The opposite has happened over here. When we've had toddlers or babies, we've swayed much more toward "no structure" just because I haven't had the energy to put together lesson plans and keep track of the kids. Now that our youngest if almost 3, I have a more energy (though the littles still wake up much during the night) and can actually "teach" math and go to the library for books, etc. So we are a little more structured with daily "required" subjects, and then a rotating list of Five in a Row topics that I'd like to cover every 2 weeks or so (but that usually drags out to longer). I am hoping that as my older two grow, we'll continue with this basic routine, and then will have a little more structure (or accountability, I guess) in 8th grade and up. (As Janet said, to sort of assess where they are and make sure that we cover what I feel is important and what they feel is important because of the direction they think they might want to go after high school.)
So I guess (so far) level of structure/teaching style in our house has had more to do w/ my energy level than my age or a child's "grade" in school. I have never been attracted to anything "in a box" (like Seton, etc), and have always enjoyed "picking and choosing," even when I've "picked" a workbook.
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Janette (4 boys - 22, 21, 15, 14)
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Marybeth
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| Posted: July 10 2005 at 4:35pm | IP Logged
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Thank you to all of you who gave me some wonderful food for thought. I guess it was one "of those days" when I posted this topic. I had two holy and devoted mothers tell me they didn't feel that they fit into our local Catholic homeschooling group. They felt uncomfortable and judged b/c of their educational philosophies. I think I just got a bit ticked off and needed some reassurance from those of you who have been schooling for a bit longer than our family.
Thank you again very much!! God bless.
Marybeth
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guitarnan
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| Posted: July 14 2005 at 11:27pm | IP Logged
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Marybeth and everyone,
I really appreciate this thread, especially the open and non-judgmental commentary on various ways to homeschool our children and pass on our beloved Faith to them.
I'm one of those people who is blessed with God's 2x4 whacking me at critical times in my life. In other words, when He has something to say to me, He generally drops a Wile E. Coyote-style anvil on my head to make sure I get His message! So it was with homeschooling. Initially I tried to be very structured, but God, the Navy and the Italian way of life just didn't work within that rigid framework. So, we're pretty relaxed, and I'd say we're about 50% CCM now. (Mostly the living books part!) I truly felt called to the homeschooling life. I still feel called to it.
One of the true blessings of homeschooling and being open to God's plans is the revelation that each child is a unique gift from Him. We're able to work with each of our children as individuals. For example, my son is very structured in his approach to, well, everything. It's black or white for him. He loves workbooks and dislikes old Catholic reprint texts, spiral math books and stuff like that. My daughter is so hands-on and full of energy that she could never focus on that many workbooks. So, we do things differently for each. Our days converge at science and history time...we do experiments together, watch all kinds of cool DVDs about animals and explorers...you get the idea.
The interesting result is that they are both learning well, but in entirely different ways. They are both growing in their faith. Last school year (the one that just ended) we were blessed with tons of seasonal religious activity ideas from our parish's Marist brother. My house was transformed into a bower of angels during Advent...and we make all kinds of St. Nicholas figures on Dec. 6 (not to mention putting out the shoes), so we were truly festive by the time we put up our tree right before Christmas arrived. My daughter has a lovely First Communion notebook (not quite done...we still have to put the cards and photos into it), thanks to everyone on this board who had suggestions for this project.
I see this approach continuing through high school. We study the same things at age-appropriate levels, and diverge for math, grammar, etc. This next year I plan to focus on improving our writing skills, including mine.
So, what is my style? It's Catholic. It's pretty much impossible to define. It goes on the road when we have to travel. It stands watches with Dad. It enables our family to have more time together, and to put Sundays and feast days first. It incorporates some Boy Scout merit badge activities if they fit into our study plan for the year. It's different for each child. It works most of the time. It's fixable when it doesn't work.
A couple of months ago I was labeled as a "lunatic" who "shouldn't be teaching children anyway" at a diocesan Catholic session for catechists. I am proud to be this kind of lunatic. My county has no Catholic schools. The closest one is in another state, 40 miles away. This lunatic chooses to pass on her faith every day, rather than plop her beloved son on a bus and send him on a 45-minute ride to school each morning to the only school around...with teen pregnancy, meth, and other fun side effects of a public education in this part of the USA. We didn't hesitate a minute when we moved here, even though my husband's job is very visible in our community and our homeschooling lifestyle might be construed as a rejection of our county's policies and practices...not a politically popular thing.
So, where am I going with all of this? Back to God's 2x4. I was called to this life, to this way of educating my children. Somehow, when I waver, God brandishes that old 2x4 and I happily get back on track. I try hard to be open to what He wants me to do here; my husband's job puts me in the position of bridging our Navy base with the local community, and I can't do that AND homeschool without lots of divine intervention. I truly believe that we, the Catholic homeschoolers, must put our lives into God's hands and listen to His plans for us...and those plans aren't the same for each family. How could they be? He has gifted us with wonderful, unique children. What works for me might be a disaster for you. Your experiences might be just the thing I needed to know about to get me past a homeschooling roadblock.
I think the CCM approach focuses on some essentials that children of all temperaments can appreciate and truly learn from. Nature study. Living books. Attention to God's creation. Narration in a developmentally-appropriate style. I've never met a child who suffered because his parents read good books to him and with him. I've never met a child who hated watching animals in their habitats, or despised planting seeds and watching them grow. This is why the CCM approach works...it appeals to things inside all of us that are important, special and interesting.
The CCM families I've encountered here and in person have the gift of open-mindedness. I want this for my children. I want them to accept God's plan for them, and to see that He has plans, wildly different, for everyone else, too.
I admit, I never put my methodology (if you can call it that) into a "box" when I discuss homeschooling. I don't label our approach in any way. I mention our umbrella school if asked, but most people around here think I'm wacko enough for homeschooling and being Catholic (!), so they don't have nerve enough to ask about anything else. I guess that's a regional characteristic that is a real blessing for us!
I know I'm called to do this right now. I believe this call will last for at least 11 more years...so I'm in this for the long haul, and I trust that God will give me strength to do what He asks of me.
Side note: One of my favorite books of all time is The Hiding Place, which describes Corrie Ten Boom's experiences in Nazi concentration camps. Corrie's description of her family life and the wonderful truths her parents shared with her really inspire me when I'm worried about the things I'm supposed to be doing. Of course, the book is an inspiring tribute to the triumph of faith over the worst adversity, but it's Corrie's description of how her whole life prepared her to meet the challenge of imprisonment...without her realizing that she was being prepared to minister in a concentration camp...that has made a difference in my life. We never know what God is really calling us to do.
Here's what I've learned in three years...I hope it helps you feel more confident. Stand tall. Trust in Him. Know you're doing the best you can for your children, and that God will take care of the rest and comfort you in time of trial. Pray for your homeschooling sisters and brothers...we all need the support and peace that only prayer can bring.
The things I don't know will probably be delivered via God's 2x4; please pray I'm ready for the next surprise!
Thanks for listening.
__________________
Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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cathhomeschool
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| Posted: July 15 2005 at 8:48am | IP Logged
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Beautiful post, Nancy! Thank you!
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Janette (4 boys - 22, 21, 15, 14)
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Meredith
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| Posted: July 15 2005 at 10:02am | IP Logged
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Nancy that was awesome  and I want to respond more on this thread but don't have enough time this morning.
It's so nice to hear everyone's perspective about this and how much we can glean from each other is truly the Holy Spirit working among us.
God Bless and am anxious to continue discussion.
__________________
Meredith
Mom of 4 Sweeties
Sweetness and Light
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Defending learning
