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Lisbet
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| Posted: May 08 2007 at 9:46am | IP Logged
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Does anyone have experience with both? We have followed MODG syllabi in the past, then moved to CHC and more unschooling. It is with great humility that we find ourselves looking to full enrollment in some program next year for all 5 school age kids.
I find myself too easily overwhelmed with all of my littles to try to come up with our own lesson plans and curriculum. I will have a very advanced 7th grader, an 'average' (  that word!) 5th grader, rambunctious 2nd and 3rd graders, (boys!) and a very very eager to sit down and 'do' school K'er. THEN, add to that the 4,2,1,year olds and a newborn! :)
I think Seton would be a GREAT fit for my oldest. He very much digs texts books and work books, he thrives on structure. I just don't have it in me to come up with all of that for him, and I don't know why I should if I can get what he needs all neatly packaged up for him. I certainly don't see any problems with what Seton offers for him. So I'm nearly certain I will fully enroll him.
My 5th grader is more of a flighty read a little write a little draw a little, kind of gal. I do feel she is slightly 'behind' academically, and part of it might be that I don't challenge her enough. Would Seton be too much for her? Or just what she needs to get a little more focused? And quite frankly, I don't really *want* to come up with lesson plans/curriculum for her. (If I had all the time in the world, of course I would, but I simply don't!)
The middle boys, well, they just like to get stuff done and then move on the the better things in life. They naturally do their own nature studies and they read on their own and narrate back to me without being asked. I easily see Isaac following in his oldests brothers learning patterns eventually. I kind of feel like if I start these two out on this now, they will excel.
The K'er, well, she's just eager to have her own set of books and #2 pencil and sit to 'do' school each day.
*PHEW!* Can you tell I'm really leaning toward Seton? Is it realistic for me to think this will be 'easier' on me to make sure my children are getting the academics they need and we can all peacefully care for the littles and the home? Is it realistic for me to think we will have our afternoons free for spontaneous nature studies, good living books, and the more 'laid back' learning? Or is it all pie in the sky?
Thanks SO MUCH for allowing me to think outloud, and I heartily welcome any input either way. I am so grateful to have this forum for these tough questions!
__________________
Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
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Maria B.
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| Posted: May 08 2007 at 9:56am | IP Logged
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Lisa, I hate to "pop the bubble" in your plans, but I used Seton for two years with some of my older kids a couple of years ago for the same reasons you are considering it. Unfortunately, instead of freeing me up and allowing for more spontaneous learning in the afternoon, we were still working into dinner time on the Seton work. There is a lot of "book work" for the student and a great deal of paperwork for mom to keep up with. Worse for me, was that the schedule set out by Seton allowed little flexibility. Once we missed a day or two, it took forever to catch up. I found the program very stressful both for me and the children using it. I would never go back to it. The peace of mind it provided me was only temporary. It took the "fun" and joy out of homeschooling for me and the children.
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Maria in VA
Proud Mom to 10 Great kids!
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LLMom
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| Posted: May 08 2007 at 11:56am | IP Logged
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Well, my experience is a little different than Maria's. I have used Seton for the last 2 years and before that MODG. MODG was too much for me. I needed my children to be more independent while I had 2 babies. Seton provides that. MODG required lots of teacher time. My 11th, 7th, 4th are very independent and my 2nd grader can do a lot on her own. The Kinder needs the most help. Yes, Seton can take all of your time IF you do everything in the lesson plans, but they tell you that you don't have to do it all. They are very flexible and will allow you to use different grade levels and even different books. You are NOT required to turn in any work. You can do all or some or none. (I mean turn it in, not skip all the assignment) I usually just submit work for the oldest 3 and just use the lesson plans for the younger. They don't need grades or feedback yet. I have added living books to the science and history and combine the younger ones. They are fine with that. You also can just enroll in single courses if you want. The best courses to enroll in would be religion, reading and English.
I have been very pleased with Seton. It was better than I thought. Its not as rigid as most people assume and they are so helpful. YOu might find it helpful too to join the Seton yahoo group. You can PM me if you need a link. I chose Seton for the exact same reasons as you did. This coming year, though, we are going back to more CM while enrolling in Seton for my oldest at her request. This year I won't have a new baby. My youngest is 2, but I wouldn't hesitate to go back to it if the Lord blesses us again and I am overwhelmed with planning.
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Lisa
For veteran & former homeschool moms
homeschooling ideas
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Jennifer Evans
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| Posted: May 08 2007 at 12:00pm | IP Logged
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Lisa,
I have used Kolbe and MODG for the younger grades. I think Kolbe can be flexible. If I wanted to substitute a book, they were okay with that.
I enrolled with MODG for a few years. I love the method and the books are wonderful. It did create a lot of stress for us though. Every child had their own syllabus and so everyone was doing something different for history, religion, science etc. From my experience it was very hard to substitute books while being enrolled. I think this program would have worked better for me if we had not enrolled and just used the syllabi as a guide. I am one who likes to follow everything exactly, so I drove myself and everyone crazy around here.
We are currently enrolled with St. Thomas Aquinas Academy. So far, it has been like a breath of fresh air. We have only been with them for half a year. They design a curriculum for/with you. They have combined my two oldest in grammar, science, history, religion. My kids seem to enjoy this so much more and it is a ton easier for me.
I hope this helps and isn't more confusing...I will say a prayer for you that God's plan become apparent.
God Bless!
Jennifer
Mom to 4 in California
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mariB
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| Posted: May 08 2007 at 12:04pm | IP Logged
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Lisa,
We've been using MODG for 8 years and my oldest has done Seton for 9th grade. I wished we were finished with Seton but were are only in the 3rd and 4th quarter with his subjects. On the other hand we didn't start Seton until late November. In August-November we used MODG highschool syllabuses and I really disliked it. In history for 4 weeks at a time it would say in the lesson plan READ and that was it. My son likes Seton and wants to stick with it. We don't stick with the lesson plans but go right to what is required by Seton only.
For example, in English and Grammar the last 2 quarters have required 3 papers in quarter 3 and 4 papers in quarter 4. And that is ALL we have done with that class. Believe me, my son has learned so much about writing in other areas of life. So you can do what you want with Seton. I love designing my own curriculum. But I wanted my highschooler to be more independent and responsible. ---Personal choice! Of course he gets my help. And I review every assignment with him before he sends it in. And YES I even check the tests. I check the tests because on our own I would check them anyway to see if he gets it or not because I feel a big part of homeschooling is learning and UNDERSTANDING what you are learning.
Here's another example. My son is taking Abeka Physical Science with Seton. He loved reading the book How the World Perished which was required reading in quarter 3. We dislike the Seton science tests though. The fill in the blank questions will get marked wrong if you answer reduntantly or fill in CAN'T intstead of CANNOT. We called and my son told the teacher the correct answers over the phone and they gave him the points for those questions. Now I have him take the tests open book. I wouldn't normally do this but my son, I feel, is intellegent and can narrate the chapter back to me and really explain in detail what is happening scientifically.
Seton has freed me up to do things with the other children and my highschooler always does gathering time with everyone. We still do a bunch of fun stuff together and my son never goes until the evening with his work. He does at the very most 4-5 hours a day and is done by noon..
If you have any questions please PM me. I would love to help.
God bless.
__________________
marib-Mother to 22ds,21ds,18ds,15dd,11dd and wife to an amazing man for 23 years
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BrendaPeter
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| Posted: May 08 2007 at 4:45pm | IP Logged
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Dear Lisa,
You've gotten so many great responses here, that I'm a little hesitant to jump in.
I just wanted to add that I've done both MODG & Seton (& Kolbe!) & my experience has been very similar to Lisa's(LL Mom). Personally, I find that MODG is not terribly "pick up & go" & can be difficult for the mom with lots of littles who needs her children to work independently. Of course, there are lots of variables. My 2 eldest are boys & my 1st one especially is not the self-motivated type. I know of families with very motivated girls & MODG works well for them.
The two things I like best about Seton is that my kids (especially my older ones) can work pretty independently and (my favorite part) that they grade writing, in particular the book reports.
In my early days of homeschooling, Seton would have been a disaster as I was much more of a "dot your i's & cross your t's" homeschooling mom. Now that I have a better feel for things, I'm much more comfortable throwing things out & I do. If you find yourself throwing out alot, you can always buy the courses ala carte.
I also wasn't attracted to Seton for a long time since they weren't "classical" per se, but I find that Seton helps us to accomplish the basics & we can fit in latin, logic, etc.
One of my closest friends has been using Seton for about 8 years (she has 8 children) & has been very happy. She'd be happy to answer any of your questions. Just let me know.
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Blessings,
Brenda (mom to 6)
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MarilynW
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| Posted: May 08 2007 at 9:49pm | IP Logged
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Lisa - I just want to share my experiences. My first year of homeschooling we had a very CM/eclectic approach. This year I had my oldest (Grade 5) enrolled in Seton and my twins doing a mixture of Seton, CHC and Sonlight. I really wanted to experience the whole curriculum thing to figure out what works best for our family. Here are my observations:
- Firstly - I will deal with the positives about Seton. Great Catholic material, sound academically and I was impressed with their efficiency and their flexibility. eg I did my own Math, Science and History. Abby did most of her work and filed it online.I liked accessing the lesson plans online and downloading them and adding my own stuff in. BUT...
- Negatives - I agree with Maria B - I think it took some of the fun and joy out of homeschooling. There is a HUGE amount of stuff to do. It leaves very little time for anything else - so read alouds, liturgical year stuff, nature study, art and music have to be stuffed in or left out. Abby is very conscientious and above average - and did most of the work herself - but I know she felt that she did not have enough time with me and she was always listening in on her brothers' read alouds and "fun stuff" She is almost done with the year and has done great - but she does not want to do it ever again. My other problem is the quote from the Latin Centered Curriculum - pregnant brain has forgotten - multum non whatever - too many subjects. Kids doing Seton will learn in a "school like" way - but I am not sure they are learning to think or apply their knowledge.
- I am not convinced that the whole workbook thing actually teaches kids. eg my boys did Seton English and always got it right in the workbook - but it I asked them thoughtful questions, they had not really absorbed the information. They learned so much more with something like Jessie Wise's "First Language Lessons for the Well Trained Mind" which is very CM.
- re MODG. I like the approach and I have talked at length with Laura Berquist at a conference last year. My main problems is that I would change a lot of her curriculum eg I really do not like the Reading Road to Writing and some of the other core texts - so I would be rewriting syllabi anyway. It also has the inherent curriculum problem if you follow it to the letter - flexibility and taking life into account. After having the kids in Catholic school - I am wary of trying to "bring school home"
So now I am in the boat of deciding on approach for next year. I have always been afraid of an unstructured approach, worrying that nothing would be done. But I have seen that it is important for my kids to be fired up and enthusiastic about what they do and that most learning happens often in unconventional ways. Saying that - I am not the personality type to have no schedule. I am just trying to figure it out. For next year we will have the following:
- Math
-Latin
- Art
- Music
- Lots of Liturgical year activities (which will incorporate writing and art)
- Grammar (undecided)
- Nature and science
- Lots and lots of literature
A lot of our approach will be unit studies and rabbit trails - I know it will be more planning for me - but Seton and enrollment is a ton of marking and work too.I will have a plan for each child - including the 3 year old who wants to his "work" too - I am just praying for time and energy to get it all sorted before the baby arrives.
Sorry for rambling. I will pray for wisdom for you.
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Marilyn
Blessed with 6 gifts from God
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LLMom
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| Posted: May 08 2007 at 10:08pm | IP Logged
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Lisa, (the other Lisa again  )
I just wanted to say that it won't hurt your children to use workbooks for a year or two. I felt so bad about it all before I decided to use Seton but dh reminded me I was at a season in my life where I was too busy to do it all. He was right. Yeah, some of the stuff is boring and maybe workbooks aren't the ideal way to learn (their whole schooling career) but they will be fine for a season or two if you need it. Seton does produce academically superior students.
Another idea I thought I would throw out at you is this: Have you thought of just enrolling your oldest (since you said he likes structure) and unschool everyone else? Maybe just plan some monthly read a louds (some of them being religious, literature, science, and history) Nurse,read and narrate. Have the 5th grader do math (math doesn't take much planning) and the 2nd & 3rd graders if you can muster it. Send them all out in the yard every so often and tell them to find something interesting outside to draw and orally narrate to you while you are nursing or resting on the couch.
Either way, it IS hard work and time consuming. THere is no other way around it with a large family.
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Lisa
For veteran & former homeschool moms
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MarilynW
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Lisa - I too would like to agree with the other Lisa.(despite my earlier post) There is a season for everything. I have fewer children and definitely fewer "littles" than you so it is easier for me to try and be flexible. Also - I would choose Seton at any time that I was unable to plan and spend individual time with the children. Earlier this pregnancy with the hyperemesis(and with the preterm scares) - it was such a blessing to have them do workbooks and get on with their own work. It is still way preferable to sending them to school. And with Seton they are way ahead academically.
My only advice would be that if you decide to do the curriculum approach - be careful of reading blogs and trying to follow rabbit trails too - just stick by your decision and don't feel bad about not doing the extras. I always felt guilty that I was not doing more of the "fun stuff."
I still have not found the "best approach" - still praying about next year and what will be the best for our family.
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Marilyn
Blessed with 6 gifts from God
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Lisbet
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| Posted: May 09 2007 at 5:36am | IP Logged
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Thank you all so very much for sharing your experiences and insight with me. My husband and I dicussed this at length last night, he is very impressed with the Seton information he has read. I know for sure we will be enrolling Nicholas next year, even I had to admit that it seems such a wonderful fit for him. (He's just so wired that way!) We are going to pray for wisdom and guidance for the best approach for the other children. I think I am going to take a good look at CHC again for the younger set.
You all, everyone of you from either perspective, make so much sense and give me lots to think about. Again, thanks so much!
__________________
Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
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helene
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| Posted: May 09 2007 at 5:59pm | IP Logged
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Just adding another note of comparison for families with many children....MODG has a family fee. The one fee covers the whole family. Seton has you enroll each child separately and pay for each one. For many years I will have 3 or 4 children in high school at once. Seton will be prohibitively expensive for us.
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Happy Mom to five girls (20,17,13,11and 4) and five boys (19, 15, 10, 8 and 6)
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5athome
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| Posted: May 09 2007 at 6:33pm | IP Logged
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FWIW, Keep in mind when looking at prices that Seton's fee includes all of the materials (you do not buy the books in addition to their fees). Also, they do have a price structure that gives discounts for multi child enrollment and I think a discount if you register during a homeschool conference.
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Margaret
ds '93, dd '96, ds '99,
ds '01, dd '04, ds '06,
ds '08
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Seton vs. MODG
