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JodieLyn
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Well folklaur I would make the distinction between socialization and socializing. You need the one, not the other but it's awful nice to get anyway.
And lack of friends happens to children whether they homeschool or not, whether they get along well with others or not, whether they are involved in many things or not.
And I know I've talked about time periods when some of my children have gone without friends, but to my mind that's very different from "socialization".
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Angie Mc
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folklaur wrote:
But - they have very few peers to just "be" with.
I, personally, think this is still the big taboo subject in homeschool circles. ...But they are lacking socialization in that they do not have a lot of friends their age. ... Sometimes, I think they just need to be.
And I think some homeschooling Moms are desperately needing to talk about the "lack of friends" but to talk about socialization is like a "bad word" almost.
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I agree. One of the difficulties of homeschooling is the added responsibility on the family to provide opportunities for friendships and the willingness to grow relationships with/for their children. It is hard work. It is a commitment. It takes time. This doesn't mean it isn't worth doing! But I think it is reassuring to know that it isn't easy...I'm not a failure if my child feels lonely, doesn't have a best friend, or just wants to hang with more people.
When I think of concentric circles to show different levels of relationship to our family, or to an individual in our family (ex: picture my 11yo ds in the at the center of a page of paper, draw a circile around him that includes our family, draw another circle around him to include close friends, draw another to include less close friends, etc.), it can be easy to minimize or dismiss the importance of those outer circles, seeing them as unnecessary or superficial. Yet, I've grown to see the importance of these circles. Like Laura said, people to just be with, especially as my children grow older.
Our circles are expanding naturally because, as I mentioned, we've lived in the same place for 6 years and our growing children are bringing others into our lives. It's awesome! One of my very favorite outer circle of friends is our baseball circle (some of you are shocked, I know  .) With 2 boys playing, we are getting to know the baseball the circle pretty well, to include the umpires  . We show up for games and wave to the group and they wave back. We can choose to chat with others or not. My 5yo can hang out with the other younger siblings or not. No planning. No expectations. Go home. Fab!
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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Angie Mc
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JodieLyn wrote:
| Well folklaur I would make the distinction between socialization and socializing. You need the one, not the other but it's awful nice to get anyway. |
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Let's see if I have this right. Socialization is a long term process by which one becomes able to interact appropriately and easily with others. Socializing describes being with others in a way that is light, ex: the baseball gatherings described above. Are we missing a word for forming long-term bonds...bonding? Any other words to describe all this good stuff?
I think we do need light socializing. We don't need it every day and there will be seasons when socializing isn't as necessary or is limited. It's funny, but when my first children were little *I* needed socializing. As they grew older, I don't need it as much but *they* needed/need it.
Which leads me to another thought. One of the best things that has come out of our home education lifestyle, is our awareness of the importance of hospitality. We make sure to open up our home to friends on a regular basis for light activities (mainly parties with yummy food, games, music - people are very easy to please!) so that we can "just be", as Laura described.
*****
Thought I would mention that my dh and oldests dss have been away for a week! I'm extra chatty right now as I await their arrival home.
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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CrunchyMom
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Angie Mc wrote:
Thought I would mention that my dh and oldests dss have been away for a week! I'm extra chatty right now as I await their arrival.
Love, |
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Hence your need to "socialize" a bit more than usual?
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Lindsay
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Angie Mc
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CrunchyMom wrote:
Angie Mc wrote:
Thought I would mention that my dh and oldests dss have been away for a week! I'm extra chatty right now as I await their arrival.
Love, |
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Hence your need to "socialize" a bit more than usual? |
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That's right  . Oooooooooooooo, let's share some yummy cyber treats while we're at it!
Love,
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Angie Mc
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CrunchyMom
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Absolutely. Food is one of the most social of all activities
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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LLMom
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We are geographically fairly isolated and therefore as my dc have become teens, they have become quite bored and lonely. Even the hs friends we do have, live far (over 30 minutes away) so we don't see them often. I wish at times we weren't so far from everything.
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Lisa
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Erin
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Angie Mc wrote:
folklaur wrote:
But - they have very few peers to just "be" with.
I, personally, think this is still the big taboo subject in homeschool circles. ...But they are lacking socialization in that they do not have a lot of friends their age. ... Sometimes, I think they just need to be.
And I think some homeschooling Moms are desperately needing to talk about the "lack of friends" but to talk about socialization is like a "bad word" almost.
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I agree. |
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So do I.
Angie Mc wrote:
| I think we do need light socializing. We don't need it every day and there will be seasons when socializing isn't as necessary or is limited. It's funny, but when my first children were little *I* needed socializing. As they grew older, I don't need it as much but *they* needed/need it. |
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I recently heard of a research report that had discovered that to be people who feel connected to their community are happier than those who aren't. I know for myself this is true, to walk into the shop and greet the green grocer by name and inquire after his grandchildren, to have him make sure I get the specials deal, to walk down the street and have a couple of faces to smile at makes all the difference.
For my children I feel very strongly that they are part of this community (we have been here 15 years) and I am conscious that part of sporting commitments, parish involvement is putting down roots in their community. As they are approaching work age I see the importance of this even more.
But I am seeing that my years of babies and homeschooling we have in some ways become insular too, this I am currently addressing (see below)
**I am talking about my experience.
Angie Mc wrote:
| One of the best things that has come out of our home education lifestyle, is our awareness of the importance of hospitality. We make sure to open up our home to friends on a regular basis for light activities |
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I've been thinking about the art of hospitality alot lately. Actually I've been thinking about it in relation to being hospitable to the wider community, not friends so much. An opportunity to develop new friends, people we met at Church, sporting groups etc It has been my experience that people from these arenas stay acquaintances unless we do consciously foster them deeper. Last holidays I tentatively invited a couple of the parents from my dd6 soccer team out for morning tea, I was pleasantly surprised at their enthusiastic response. I think this is an art that is becoming lost.
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Kathryn
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I would agree too that there is a difference betw. socialization and friends within their general age/peer age (which can vary a couple yrs on either side depending on the child's maturity level). I had stated that we live on a block w/ 22+ kids and we have a large extended family thru my DH so my kids actually get both which is possibly why I am so satisfied. They socialize across age spans but they do also have the friends to just "hang with".
Also, mine were in traditional school and I can also add that just BEING in traditional school does not guarantee similar friends and peer relationsips that *I* wanted nurtured. So, although sometimes I wish they had more "just hang with" friends, I think limiting that and allowing them to nurture the couple of really good friendships is more important.
Is is possible that sometimes we wish our kids had a LOT of friends to "hang with" vs. just a couple of really good friendships to nurture?
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Erin
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Kathryn wrote:
| Is is possible that sometimes we wish our kids had a LOT of friends to "hang with" vs. just a couple of really good friendships to nurture? |
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I'd be happy with quality vs quantity. Quality is really what I'd love. But I console myself that they do have their siblings.
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SeaStar
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Kathryn wrote:
Is is possible that sometimes we wish our kids had a LOT of friends to "hang with" vs. just a couple of really good friendships to nurture? |
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I believe that is what makes a lot of parents feel good: see how many friends my kids have?
I am wondering... is this another area where we subtly compete against each other? I have a neighbor who won't let her kids play with the same children more than once a week or so because she believes they need a wide circle of friends.
Are some parents confusing activities with friendships? That was brought up before in this conversation, and I find it a very interesting point.
Also, we moved here to a smaller town about three years ago, and it feels like most people, even our HS group, already have established friendships and very busy lives and aren't really looking to widen their circles. I have found it frustrating.
I feel like I have made every reasonable effort to meet people and be friendly... which leads me to another consideration: perhaps at this season it is just God's will for us to be more on our own.
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folklaur
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Kathryn wrote:
Is is possible that sometimes we wish our kids had a LOT of friends to "hang with" vs. just a couple of really good friendships to nurture? |
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I think having just a few close friends is wonderful! I am not talking "quantity" here at all - absolutely I refer to quality.
It is just that, for instance, think about all the "Homeschooling FAQ" lists that so many websites about homeschooling, or homeschooling literature have. One of the top questions is always "What about Socialization?" And the answers always say how this is not really a concern - that there are classes and sports and this and that. So many opportunities! But - that just isn't always the case (and some people may not have the money for the classes, some may live in more remote regions, some may only have one car that DH needs for work, etc.) So, I know there are homschooling Moms sitting lonely, with children who are longing for friends, but to bring up "socialization" often gets you pounced on. It is like that it is a such a worry for the "image of homeschooling" that if you are struggling in that area, it is something *you* are doing wrong, and you had better not ask for help regarding it, because it isn't *really* an issue.
And sometimes, I think it actually is.
If that makes sense. I often don't, except in my own head, so that is possible too!
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Kathryn
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folklaur wrote:
If that makes sense.
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It does make sense. It occurred to me though that socialization and friendship are being linked together as one and the same. I'm not referring to anyone's particular post here but just the general thought that in relation to HS, when people broach the subject of "socialization" they're thinking peer friendship. Many HSers can say their kids are adequately socialized but not adequately fulfilled in a peer friendship way. And it seems that it really is two separate issues and needs to be approached as such. I think the debate then becomes...just HOW important are peer relationships? May be sometimes people are thinking about/discussing 2 completely different topics. ?
I also agree that simply attending or being a part of certain activites doesn't necessarily cultivate friendships the way it happens in traditional school when kids are together for 7 hrs a day and attending recess and PE and lunch and the library and field trips etc. That certainly does allow more time for chitter chatter. My DD did great with that and we continue a couple of friendships she made at school. My DS didn't do so great with it and he has no friends from school. He simply has a harder time making friends in general and even from baseball and soccer, he didn't make a friendship to continue. Boy Scouts has helped him with these friendships more than these other activities but may be that's b/c Dad is there and involved to help him navigate "how to be a friend" etc.
I will also say that my kids don't really have FRIENDS within our local HS circle. Honestly, I don't think they've made any NEW friends since we started HS last year. We do the activities with HS group and my kids get along but again, the time is limited and nothing gets "built up" like it did in regular school, in the neighborhood or even some friendships we still have from when I was in a MOMS group when they were toddlers. I guess if I didn't have these 3 avenues that gave us these established peer friendships, I prob. would be more disappointed. It will be interesting how this changes for my 2 younger ones.
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JodieLyn
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Well those FAQ's are about actual socialization.. not about making friends or hanging out. But about the question that is so often brought up that kids can't grow up without spending 12 yrs in age segregated groups with mainly their same age peers to learn how to behave in society.
That's why I was trying to point out that socialization is different than socializing. And why you'll run into resistance that homeschoolers can lack in socialization.. because that they can learn at home with no one but mom and dad and siblings.
What you're trying to call socialization is generally refered to more in the where do you find friends, how do you meet people vein.
The words sound so similiar that they are confusing in that way.
so·cial·i·za·tion /ˌsoʊʃələˈzeɪʃ ;ən/ [soh-shuh-luh-zey-shuhn]
–noun
1. a continuing process whereby an individual acquires a personal identity and learns the norms, values, behavior, and social skills appropriate to his or her social position.
so·cial·ize /ˈsoʊʃəˌlaɪz/ [soh-shuh-lahyz] verb, -ized, -iz·ing.
–verb (used without object)
4. to associate or mingle sociably with others: to socialize with one's fellow workers.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
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folklaur
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JodieLyn wrote:
What you're trying to call socialization is generally refered to more in the where do you find friends, how do you meet people vein.
The words sound so similiar that they are confusing in that way.
so·cial·i·za·tion /ˌso&# 650;ʃələˈzeɪʃ ; ;ən/ [soh-shuh-luh-zey-shuhn]
–noun
1. a continuing process whereby an individual acquires a personal identity and learns the norms, values, behavior, and social skills appropriate to his or her social position.
so·cial·ize /ˈsoʊʃəˌlaɪz/ [soh-shuh-lahyz] verb, -ized, -iz·ing.
–verb (used without object)
4. to associate or mingle sociably with others: to socialize with one's fellow workers.
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well, yeah, I know that.
But I think the fact is, that when most parents, looking into homeschooling, ask that question, they are not looking for a grammar lesson - what they are asking is "Will my child have any friends?"
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albeto
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folklaur wrote:
But I think the fact is, that when most parents, looking into homeschooling, ask that question, they are not looking for a grammar lesson - what they are asking is "Will my child have any friends?" |
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Yep.
In answer to the OP, no, I'm not satisfied with my kids' socialization. I mean, they know how to behave appropriately in public, they don't scratch or spit or throw things. But my oldest has social anxiety and refuses to be with others and that coincided with him coming home. At school he had no friends, but he was accustomed to being with peers. Now he has no need and has gotten out of the habit. My dd didn't keep any friends from school and is lonely. My youngest has a good neighborhood friend, but once school starts he'll be restless and lonely again. It does concern me.
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Angie Mc
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folklaur wrote:
well, yeah, I know that.
But I think the fact is, that when most parents, looking into homeschooling, ask that question, they are not looking for a grammar lesson - what they are asking is "Will my child have any friends?" |
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I'm pretty sure that Jodie was just helping me out with formal definitions, as I asked if my informal ones were close, but I was too lazy to look them up .
folklaur wrote:
It is like that it is a such a worry for the "image of homeschooling" that if you are struggling in that area, it is something *you* are doing wrong, and you had better not ask for help regarding it, because it isn't *really* an issue.
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I can understand that some home educators may feel the need to over-compensate, swing the pendulum, when talking about "socialization" to the big happy end. The socialization bugaboo has been a big ole spotlight on homeschoolers, ever since they couldn't get us on the whole academic thing  .
Love,
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Angie Mc
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Willa
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folklaur wrote:
| One of the top questions is always "What about Socialization?" And the answers always say how this is not really a concern - that there are classes and sports and this and that. So many opportunities! But - that just isn't always the case (and some people may not have the money for the classes, some may live in more remote regions, some may only have one car that DH needs for work, etc.) So, I know there are homschooling Moms sitting lonely, with children who are longing for friends, but to bring up "socialization" often gets you pounced on. It is like that it is a such a worry for the "image of homeschooling" that if you are struggling in that area, it is something *you* are doing wrong, and you had better not ask for help regarding it, because it isn't *really* an issue. |
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I suppose it might not be a homeschooling issue, because kids that go to school are sometimes lonely too (I know I was). But the fact is that certain homeschooling circumstances, as you mention, Laura, can combine with certain personality types, to produce "socialization" challenges.
I answered "somewhat" in the poll because my kids do have some dear friends and they don't misbehave in public, etc, but we've had all the circumstances you mention (remote area, not much extra $$$, one not very reliable car) plus being a family of introverts who have trouble facing new situations. Finding, getting accustomed to, and enjoying social occasions has simply been a challenge for my family. If they were going to school? They would still be introverts and they might well have developed anxiety issues like I did in school, but maybe they would have better luck. Who knows?
Is the socialization challenge big enough for me to give up homeschooling? No, but there is a lack there, and sometimes it is very discouraging. Being very honest, here! I don't think homeschooling in general has a problem with socialization, but I think socialization can present a challenge for some groups of homeschoolers -- those who don't have much money or those who live in rural areas without much community support and those who are shy or don't quite fit in for one reason or another. Sometimes it IS a bit lonely!
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Willa
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Satisfied with children's socialization? (
Topic Closed)
