| Author | |
BrendaPeter
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 28 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 981
|
| Posted: April 03 2009 at 8:01pm | IP Logged
|
 |
|
Bookswithtea wrote:
Well, I am interested in reading everyone's thoughts...I've never been a fan of memorizing facts in the early years. I keep thinking about people who have left the Faith saying, "Oh, I memorized blah blah blah the nuns made me memorize but I never *understood* things until xyz church down the road told me the simple story of Jesus." 
I have always figured that these people either were told and didn't want to hear it, or they were in bad programs that never really did present the entire truth. Lord knows there were plenty of bad programs in the 70's, but some of these people were raised in the 50's when memorizing the BC was very popular. My mil went to Catholic School for 12 yrs and still thinks that the Catholic Church teaches that 9 First Fridays is a guarantee to Heaven and no amount of my talking till I'm blue in the face will change her mind on it. She thinks we "just don't know."  |
|
|
You got it! When I came back to my faith & starting memorizing the Baltimore Catechism with my kids, I could not believe how "A sacrament is an outward sign..." popped into my head!
__________________
Blessings,
Brenda (mom to 6)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
BrendaPeter
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 28 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 981
|
| Posted: April 03 2009 at 8:14pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Memorization has been such a big hit in our our house and seems to get better with each passing year. Not to say that we haven't had our burnout periods. Audio cds have been a life-saver.
It is important to take learning styles into consideration though. I recently bought all my kids their own Baltimore Catechism & am embarassed that I hadn't done it sooner. I photocopied the pages of the IEW poetry book for each of them too. Also I find that memory work helps a struggling reader when he is able to read what he has memorized.
Our oldest dc is very auditory so memorization took off from the beginning of our homeschooling. As more of the kids were able to memorize it worked better because it became a group activity, something they enjoyed doing together.
My experience (unlike Willa's) is that my kids memorize extremely well in the younger years and certainly much better than mom!
It has truly become a habit in our home. My dc LOVE to listen to the poetry cds over & over again & will recite them endlessly. We have catechism tests every Friday night with Daddy as we work on 1 lesson/week & need to pass that one to move on. My kids don't understand that most people don't think this is fun!! Our 6-year-old is a strong reader & she is responsible for testing her older brothers & sisters on catechism, poems & states & capitols. She won't let me do it  .
My favorite thing though is how the little ones pick up all kinds of sophisticated words. I'll never forget the day my 4-year-old called our cat "my beamish boy" from Lewis Carroll's "Jabberwocky" !
__________________
Blessings,
Brenda (mom to 6)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
stellamaris
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 26 2009
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2732
|
| Posted: April 03 2009 at 8:34pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
We did quite a bit of poetry memorization at one point. One of the greatest things about memorization was that my chldren were able to recite poetry for my parents, and that alone seemed to convince them that homeschooling was a great thing! And the children still know the poems! Willa is right, it really "sticks" when they are young. Besides poetry and facts, hymns are also great to memorize. Older hymns have rich vocabulary. Some of them are theology lessons set to music; the hymns I learned as a child are still a rich source of meditation for me.
__________________
In Christ,
Caroline
Wife to  dh 30+ yrs,ds's 83,85,89,dd's 91,95,ds's 01,01,02,grammy to 4
Flowing Streams
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
helene
Forum Pro
Joined: Dec 10 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 304
|
| Posted: April 03 2009 at 9:19pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I often hear that younger kids can memorize large amounts of material without much effort. It has been my real life experience, however, that some can and some can't. Beautiful poetry is worth memorizing because it is beautiful. Otherwise, I think memorizing should be saved for the things that are really necessary to memorize.....math facts, time and money, days of the week, months and practical things that the student would actually use in their educational and practical life. Prayers, too, and perhaps general locations of some major countries on a map. Foreign language study requires memorizing also. I find it pointless, though, to memorize all the capitals of all the countries in the world or how many feet high the tallest mountain is,etc. These sorts of things can be looked up in an Atlas whenever needed and even if it were memorized, it probably wouldn't stick. They'd need the atlas anyhow. I very much doubt that a teenager who had memorized the periodic table in the second grade would find the info fresh and at the ready that many years later. Kids who memorize for fun often see it as a game. It goes out as quickly as it went in....and again you can always look up the periodic table. There are enough things we NEED to memorize without having to cram uneccessary things. Also I disagree that young children can't understand and therefore need only to memorize. They surely cannot grasp the more difficult concepts.....but aren't there plenty of things they can understand at a more basic level? That seems to me to be the more valuable education and what literature-based learning is all about.
__________________
Happy Mom to five girls (20,17,13,11and 4) and five boys (19, 15, 10, 8 and 6)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Willa
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 28 2005
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3881
|
| Posted: April 03 2009 at 9:34pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
There was a daily "Repetition" period in the PNEU schools set up by Charlotte Mason. I always wondered if this time period was devoted to memorization -- it was about 15 minutes long.
Last year I started a Memory Notebook which I never completed. ... but here are the two files I got done after brainstorming with an online friend -- they are in Word 2007 format so PM me if you can't see them and want to -- I warn you they are under construction, but I'm thinking I may be motivated now to build them up a bit more:
Memory Book
Morning Time
I wrote a bit more about how I envisioned the thing, over here -- Children's Hour
Also, Suzanne bumped up this thread on memorizing from last year
__________________
AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Natalia
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: Louisiana
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1343
|
| Posted: April 03 2009 at 10:51pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I don't want to sound like an infomercial for CC because, as Lisa said, CC is not the only way to do Classical Education or memorization but it has worked for us. And these are the reasons why:
-The memorization is across the curriculum. The kids memorize math facts and science facts, history sentences and a history timeline. They also memorize geographical features and their location on a map. They also memorize grammar facts. The memorize things that they could use in the future and things they are likely to encounter later on.
-The facts are not random in the sense that they are organized in a certain pattern. CC memory work is presented in three cycles. The fist cycle, for example, deals with Ancient History-they memorize Ancient History related statements, the memorize the geography of ancient times and. The science is also grouped according to certain topics- for example I think cycle 1 deals with Earth Science, and the same with grammar and Latin. Cycle 2 and 3 are organized similarly.
-The memorization is supported by some basic explanation. So even though the kids are not expected to know the why and hows, they are given short, concise explanations.And of course as the parent I could choose to go more in depth if I wanted to.
-I can more easily see the usefulness of memorization when it is presented this way.
-Different techniques are used- memorization using songs has been the one that works the best for my youngest son.
Another technique that has worked well with us is using hand motions to accompany the material.
-Using a similar method to what Erin and Lisa have talked about (a memory time or a white board)I have found that memory work can be done efficiently and quickly.
Somebody said (sorry I don't remember who) that what is the point of memorizing if they can look it up. It is true but in the process of memorizing I think that the brain is being exercised. Also, the kids do visit the same information more than once. A child that starts CC as a first grader would have completed each cycle twice by the time he/she reaches 6th grade.
BTW, CC is not paying me or giving me any kind of commission!! 
__________________
Natalia
http://pannuestrodecadadia.blogspot.com
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
SuzanneG
Forum Moderator
Joined: June 17 2006
Location: Idaho
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5465
|
| Posted: April 03 2009 at 11:05pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Willa wrote:
There was a daily "Repetition" period in the PNEU schools set up by Charlotte Mason. I always wondered if this time period was devoted to memorization -- it was about 15 minutes long.
|
|
|
I was just thinking this morning, that I thought I remembered reading that somewhere too.
Natalia wrote:
I don't want to sound like an infomercial for CC because, as Lisa said, CC is not the only way to do Classical Education or memorization but it has worked for us. And these are the reasons why:..............
BTW, CC is not paying me or giving me any kind of commission!! |
|
|
 Don't worry....we don't think that! I'm glad you listed your "reasons why." It helps, in our minds, to sort through how / why we do memorization in each of our homes.
__________________
Suzanne in ID
Wife to Pete
Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
SuzanneG
Forum Moderator
Joined: June 17 2006
Location: Idaho
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5465
|
| Posted: April 03 2009 at 11:08pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I have a question about memorizing via song. It seems like whenever we memorize something....say the state/capital song, or the books of the bible song....the kids DO NOT remember them unless they are singing. So, if we don't reinforce it by SAYING it also, they don't know what the capital of New York is unless it's in the context of the song.
Does anyone have similar experiences? Or have suggestions for that?
__________________
Suzanne in ID
Wife to Pete
Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Erin
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 23 2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5814
|
| Posted: April 04 2009 at 2:15am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Just loving this conversation. I'm finding it all very encouraging.
A story that I'd love to share that has stuck in my mind since I heard it. 16 yrs back I had a conversation with our parish priest, he visited the nursing home in our parish daily. He talked about an elderly lady who had Alzheimer's, had forgotten many important things in her life. But the one thing she had not forgotten were her prayers memorised in childhood. My dear priest friend's point was that although many people knock the importance of 'rote' prayers, here was a woman who's main contribution to life was now prayer! Made possible by the prayers memorised as a child.
__________________
Erin
Faith Filled Days
Seven Little Australians
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
BrendaPeter
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 28 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 981
|
| Posted: April 04 2009 at 5:31am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Not to be so grim, but Erin's post made me think of the various people I've read about in concentration camps, communistic prisons, etc. who have no books at their disposal. What did they mentally recall during those times? I hope & prayer in my own family that will, with fondness, the lovely and fun poems and the truths of the catechism that we've been memorizing for years.
__________________
Blessings,
Brenda (mom to 6)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
stellamaris
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 26 2009
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2732
|
| Posted: April 04 2009 at 6:37am | IP Logged
|
|
|
BrendaPeter wrote:
| Not to be so grim, but Erin's post made me think of the various people I've read about in concentration camps, communistic prisons, etc. who have no books at their disposal. What did they mentally recall during those times? I hope & prayer in my own family that will, with fondness, the lovely and fun poems and the truths of the catechism that we've been memorizing for years. |
|
|
I remember reading an account of POW's in Vietnam. One man in solitary confinement for a long time said that he envied the Catholics because they had so many memorized prayers to turn to for solace and meditation in a situation that was too difficult for most of them to have the ability to make up their own prayers. Also, the mention of using song to memorize led me to think of my own father with Alzheimer's. He has forgotten a lot, but one thing he still remembers is the words to the songs he used to know. Music certainly strengthens retention and makes learning easier; there must be tons of research on this somewhere. Besides music, there is a variety of other memory techniques that are useful for both children and adults to learn. And, finally, another reason to have some memory work is to prepare students for college...they will need to be able to do it then to get good grades on tests.
__________________
In Christ,
Caroline
Wife to dh 30+ yrs,ds's 83,85,89,dd's 91,95,ds's 01,01,02,grammy to 4
Flowing Streams
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Bookswithtea
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 07 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2621
|
| Posted: April 04 2009 at 7:33am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Along those lines, Brenda and Erin, I had the same thought about Corrie Ten Boom. She had scripture hidden in her heart that could not be taken from her. It kept her sane and comforted her in those dark Concentration Camp times. I think that is one of the reasons why I am leaning so heavily toward starting with scripture memorization in our home. We'll see how that goes, before I take on other things to memorize, although I do like the idea of memorizing poetry as I see it as ordered to recognizing true beauty, both in art and in language. I confess, I do not see the point in memorizing how tall certain mountains are. 
__________________
Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
BrendaPeter
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 28 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 981
|
| Posted: April 04 2009 at 7:45am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Bookswithtea wrote:
| I confess, I do not see the point in memorizing how tall certain mountains are. |
|
|
We signed up with MODG about 5 years ago & I was really turned off when the consultant strongly recommended that we memorize at least some of the lengths of rivers that were in the syllabus. We have been so incredibly consistent about memory work since day 1 (that's about the only thing we've actually been consistent about !) but yet I still thought that was really pushing it. It was kind of the straw that broke the camel's back for me with MODG. Alot has happened in 5 years and it's almost comical that we're headed back to MODG for high school as I realize that it's the overall philosophy along with the idea of memorization that I find so appealing. I do understand that there's the exercise aspect but I prefer to have my dc memorize things that I think are "useful". Fortunately Mom's totally in the driver's seat when it comes to the WHAT of memorization!
__________________
Blessings,
Brenda (mom to 6)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
stellamaris
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 26 2009
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2732
|
| Posted: April 04 2009 at 9:07am | IP Logged
|
|
|
For those thinking about incorporating more Scripture memory work, I'd like to suggest that you consider memorizing larger, rather than smaller, chunks of Scripture. How many times in the middle of the night have I meditated on Ps. 23 or Matt. 5? When my babies were little, I would recite Rom. 8 to them during those midnight rock-a-byes, which I had memorized long ago when I was sick for a period of time. There is something about a longer passage that really enriches us throughout life. My favorites are the Psalms, I Cor 13, Ephesians 1, Matthew 5, and Romans 8, but there are plenty of other not quite as lengthy passages to work on. One thing we did that was both fun and seemed to help the memorizing was to learn the sign language version of the Psalm we were working on. Like singing, signing brings in another type of memory system (muscle memory) that supports the verbal/auditory learning.
__________________
In Christ,
Caroline
Wife to dh 30+ yrs,ds's 83,85,89,dd's 91,95,ds's 01,01,02,grammy to 4
Flowing Streams
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Natalia
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: Louisiana
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1343
|
| Posted: April 04 2009 at 10:07am | IP Logged
|
|
|
As I was taking a shower this morning, I was thinking about all the discussions we have been having here lately, and it occurred to me that homeschooling requires a lot of faith. The results of what we do daily won't be completely apparent until much later. Certainly, there are things that we can clearly and, in a fairly short time, tell are not working. There are other things, and I think memorization is one of those, that we are not going to be able to tell their benefit until much later. I mean, we have seen some fruit in the memorization already but really I think it is going to be years before I can tell if this method (a more classical method) has produced better results than others we have used. The people who memorized scripture that were mentioned before could not have known how living giving these prayers and Scriptures were going to be. Granted, knowing to locate all the rivers and bays in the U.S. won't be of much comfort if you see yourself in prison, but the mental exercise of years of memory work is bound to make life easier later on.
The thing is for me, that the classical method, including memorization, has worked (and produce good results)for such a long time that I feel that if I have to put my trust in a method, then a classical method seems like a good one.
I hope this makes some sense since I have been interrupted several times...
__________________
Natalia
http://pannuestrodecadadia.blogspot.com
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
LisaR
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2226
|
| Posted: April 04 2009 at 11:07am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Natalia wrote:
-The memorization is across the curriculum.
-The facts are not random in the sense that they are organized in a certain pattern. CC memory work is presented in three cycles. .
-The memorization is supported by some basic explanation. |
|
|
this is where I fianlly had an "ah-ah" moment and realized that Clasical methodology had significant strengths and value.
I also came to the realization, that at least around here, the kids in school had MORE memorized than my dc, and it was good stuff!! catechism, periodic table of the elements, english grammar rules, vocabulary, and that this was helping them on standardized test such as SAT, ACT.
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
LisaR
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2226
|
| Posted: April 04 2009 at 11:09am | IP Logged
|
|
|
SuzanneG wrote:
I have a question about memorizing via song.
Does anyone have similar experiences? Or have suggestions for that? |
|
|
I know the CC memory CD has the history sentences set to catchy tunes, tastefully done (I abhor annoying poor music!!)and I will say these were the easiest for my two youngest, age 3 and 6 at the start of the year, to pick up and recall.
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
stellamaris
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 26 2009
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2732
|
| Posted: April 04 2009 at 12:05pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Natalia wrote:
As I was taking a shower this morning, I was thinking about all the discussions we have been having here lately, and it occurred to me that homeschooling requires a lot of faith. The results of what we do daily won't be completely apparent until much later.
|
|
|
I remember this quote from my youth, which has been very helpful to me over the years of homeschooling: "Education is like the moon, perceptible not in progress but in result." Just as you said, Natalia!
__________________
In Christ,
Caroline
Wife to dh 30+ yrs,ds's 83,85,89,dd's 91,95,ds's 01,01,02,grammy to 4
Flowing Streams
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
teachingmyown
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 20 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5128
|
| Posted: April 04 2009 at 1:39pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
SuzanneG wrote:
I have a question about memorizing via song. It seems like whenever we memorize something....say the state/capital song, or the books of the bible song....the kids DO NOT remember them unless they are singing. So, if we don't reinforce it by SAYING it also, they don't know what the capital of New York is unless it's in the context of the song.
Does anyone have similar experiences? Or have suggestions for that? |
|
|
I don't think that there is anything wrong with that. People use all kinds of tricks for remembering things. I am not above singing the abc's when I am trying to find my page in a phone book or dictionary! The kids and I often break into song when someone has a geography question. Yes, Lisa, those same geography songs that probably drive you crazy!
ETA: I think that the information is there in your child's head but the song just triggers something that makes that information more accessible. Does that make sense? I can name all the countries of the Middle East without singing, but it will take longer.
__________________
In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Willa
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 28 2005
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3881
|
| Posted: April 04 2009 at 1:44pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Natalia wrote:
| I don't want to sound like an infomercial for CC because, as Lisa said, CC is not the only way to do Classical Education or memorization but it has worked for us. |
|
|
You're not being an informerical, you're being a resource
The Ignatian method relied quite a bit upon memorization. I read that a lesson plan/assignment usually included some kind of memorization project which the students would "recite" the next day. The Ignatian manual cautions that memorization itself isn't enough because some kids have wonderful, superficial memories and can start relying too quickly on rote memorization. However, at the same time the memory work was considered a key part of forming a person who could "speak, act and write well."
One advantage to memorization is the readiness of retrieval.
I grew up as an Evangelical. I actually did very little formal memory work and what I did do has mostly gone out of my mind. This was the 70's after all. But I was immersed in Scripture and Bible stories and it's all embedded in my mind. Not just one layer but layers upon layers as I kept meeting the same verses often in later life. They actually do come up when I need them. They've sunk way down deep.
I have the VP history cards from waaayyy back and if the CC program is anything like them -- it's not really that arduous. You have a card with a date and a visual and then some sources for further reading. I've used them before with the kids (tossing the specifically Reformed Protestant parts).
__________________
AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
4Real Forums : Philosophy of Education
Topic: Let's talk memorization!
