| Author | |
CrunchyMom
Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 03 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6385
|
| Posted: Jan 06 2009 at 12:28pm | IP Logged
|
 |
|
Lisbet wrote:
| I was thinking about this a bit more, and I wonder if part of it may be for me that I know families around here with 14, 16, 17, and 21 kids. They are lovely Catholic families (not solely b/c of the size...) living much like the rest of us, plugging away little by little. No 7,000 square foot houses, no TV endorsements, etc... So maybe it is indeed the Catholic part... |
|
|
My husband and I usually end up catching the show when in a hotel traveling to see family, and we enjoy parts of it, but we both agree they kind of make having a large family look *less* normal, not more. Kind of playing into the stereotypes (I could never afford to have that many kids because I can't afford 6 washers and dryers and an industrial kitchen). My husband is the youngest of 12, and his dad had a small radiator shop at their home and never made more than dh did at his first job out of college.
Anyway, I do think that there are good things to take away while discarding the bad. We both think that their idea of a family closet off of the laundry room makes a ton of sense (though not practical in our current home). And, since my husband is quite handy and renovated our row home himself, he enjoys watching the children participate in the construction process, etc... I'm sure that I could learn a great deal from her, but we both kind of have that "there's just something" feeling when we watch.
ETA: I'm sure people would feel that way about our own family were we to be on national television. We're probably much weirder 
__________________
Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Lisbet
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2006
Location: Michigan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2706
|
| Posted: Jan 06 2009 at 12:33pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
We have a family closet off of our laundry area here, our laundry area is in the basement and there is a finished room right by the washer/dryer, it looks childrens resale shop down there, but it works wonderfully! I honestly cannot recall where we got the idea from, we've had it for 7 years now.
I'm sure they are a lovely family.
__________________
Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
LLR4
Forum Pro
Joined: April 10 2008
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 163
|
| Posted: Jan 06 2009 at 12:39pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Also, in mentioning the monetary support for their cost of living, from the show and book, as I did in my post, I meant to mention their home and industrial sized washers, dryers, toasters and oven: Those are the kinds of things I am wondering if they have been able to possess, in agreement for doing the show and/or book. A bigger house - a transport van - appliances and mega-things to accommodate their family, which they may likely otherwise not be able to afford. I think of the HUGE renovations the Little People family have been doing. Yes, they have done little bits here and there over the years, but I think the show has really enabled them to fulfill these dreams, financially. I would imagine, right or wrong, these are the things that entice them to sacrifice so much family privacy and put their family 'out there' as they do, for these shows.
__________________
~ Laura
Blessed: Mama to dd{A}13 y.o., and 7 y.o. triplets ds{J}, dd{O}, ds{S} and wife to Michael
Our House of Joyful Noise
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Lisbet
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2006
Location: Michigan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2706
|
| Posted: Jan 06 2009 at 12:45pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Laura, I understand what you are saying, my husband said the same thing himself.
I like what Lindsay said though, about making big families look less 'normal' with all of those industrial sized appliances and such. The big families I know (and I know a few as big as and bigger than the Duggars) live in regular little houses, with one or two bathrooms and normal ovens and such. That's what I find truely inspirational! :)
__________________
Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
LLR4
Forum Pro
Joined: April 10 2008
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 163
|
| Posted: Jan 06 2009 at 1:02pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Lisbet wrote:
Laura, I understand what you are saying, my husband said the same thing himself.
I like what Lindsay said though, about making big families look less 'normal' with all of those industrial sized appliances and such. The big families I know (and I know a few as big as and bigger than the Duggars) live in regular little houses, with one or two bathrooms and normal ovens and such. That's what I find truely inspirational! :) |
|
|
I agree...I admire families who 'make do' more so, as well. And such appliances do make their home/family seem less normal. I was just wondering though, that If they ACCEPTED these as gifts/perks of doing the show, it may be what made them ENTICED or agree, to do the show in the first place. To make their life 'easier'. But in accepting/living in such a huge, fancy homes, that they seem to end up having, it does make their 'humble life' a little less....believable. lol
__________________
~ Laura
Blessed: Mama to dd{A}13 y.o., and 7 y.o. triplets ds{J}, dd{O}, ds{S} and wife to Michael
Our House of Joyful Noise
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
folklaur
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2816
|
| Posted: Jan 06 2009 at 2:09pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
And, in my opinion, makes it seem even more so that a large family is "too expensive."
Maybe it is because of where I have lived for the past 20 years....but where we have been, there is a large LDS population, in addition to a large Catholic one. Large families are the norm...
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
CrunchyMom
Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 03 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6385
|
| Posted: Jan 06 2009 at 2:32pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
cactus mouse wrote:
And, in my opinion, makes it seem even more so that a large family is "too expensive."
|
|
|
That makes sense, Laura. I suppose it is also materialism that contributes to the notion that one can't afford children--we have such ideas about what we *need.* I guess that there isn't a perfect picture to show a world that feels children are a burden because they require sacrifice.
To be fair to the Duggars, in the shows I saw when they showed excerpts from past episodes, they showed them in their old home which was a smallish Ranch with one (?) bathroom and set of washer/dryer. They still had 15-16 children when living there. She still seemed quite serene
__________________
Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JodieLyn
Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 06 2006
Location: Oregon
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 12234
|
| Posted: Jan 06 2009 at 3:10pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Well I don't know about that. I have 2 fridges and a stand alone freezer.. saves me money because I can buy food on sale and store it properly to last until we get around to using it.. but we live in a tiny house and such.. and still people ask my dh how he affords it.. his favorite answer is to point out his poor beat up barely chugging along pickup and tell them he doesn't have any payments on his truck.. typically they have a big fancy new off the lot and paying more than our house payment type. 
and I've definately considered how to get a second set of washer dryers hooked up  not hard to get a second set reasonably if you're not looking to buy the newest model on the market.. some people do that and want to GIVE AWAY perfectly good machines. Now I just need to find a deal like that after I figure out how to do the hookups
And the only thing I know about the Duggars is what's said on threads such as these.
__________________
Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Elizabeth
Founder
Real Learning
Joined: Jan 20 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5595
|
| Posted: Jan 06 2009 at 3:12pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
LLR4 wrote:
I have pondered myself, why the Duggars would choose to do these shows, or write a book. ...
But I think I can honestly say I have marveled and wondered if Michelle is really, truly, ALWAYS 'that' calm, peaceful, soft-spoken and content ALL of the time. Everyone has a bad day or gets in a mood SOMEtimes. |
|
|
Maybe they love their lives and they've found deep joy in their commitment to a generous Christian lifestyle and they genuinely want to share their joy. Maybe God is using them to inspire other families.
And maybe Michelle is blessed to be one of those rare souls who truly does have a soft-spoken, calm, peaceful demeanor nearly all the time. I'll bet she knows better than to show those rare moments of frustration to the thousands of people who are just waiting for her to mess up in public.
I want to believe the very best about them.
__________________
Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Lisbet
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2006
Location: Michigan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2706
|
| Posted: Jan 06 2009 at 3:17pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I do too Elizabeth, I'm not bad mouthing them, I just have a bit of uneasyness about, well, I don't know. I'm sorry I brought this up really, as I don't know enouogh about them to have a well formed opinion. (not that mine matters any! :) )
Jodie, we were given a second dryer from one of the kids godparents, and while we only have one washer, having the second dryer helps ALOT!!
__________________
Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
LLR4
Forum Pro
Joined: April 10 2008
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 163
|
| Posted: Jan 06 2009 at 3:48pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Elizabeth wrote:
LLR4 wrote:
I have pondered myself, why the Duggars would choose to do these shows, or write a book. ...
But I think I can honestly say I have marveled and wondered if Michelle is really, truly, ALWAYS 'that' calm, peaceful, soft-spoken and content ALL of the time. Everyone has a bad day or gets in a mood SOMEtimes. |
|
|
Maybe they love their lives and they've found deep joy in their commitment to a generous Christian lifestyle and they genuinely want to share their joy. Maybe God is using them to inspire other families.
And maybe Michelle is blessed to be one of those rare souls who truly does have a soft-spoken, calm, peaceful demeanor nearly all the time. I'll bet she knows better than to show those rare moments of frustration to the thousands of people who are just waiting for her to mess up in public.
I want to believe the very best about them. |
|
|
You could very well be right. As I said in my first post, ....maybe they see the show as an opportunity to spread God's word...be an example...inspire, etc.
There absolutely is contentment -- something recognizable without quite being able to put a finger on it---in a person/soul who has committed their heart to God. I call it a 'light'. It's the something undescribable that even less than faithful people are drawn to in people who have found God and have let Him into their hearts and lives. I bet many many here have that light....I know I feel it and have been told I have it....and I certainly see it in the Duggars. It's a joy of knowing He loves us and all that comes with giving/living your life to/for Him. It's the peace of the Holy Spirit within you. So yes.....I know just what you mean. Michelle's contentment most likely comes from that. I just wondered if she EVER faulters...or if she is truly just like that all of the time. I love my life too....and certainly revel in the joy and blessings of my faith and family, on a daily basis. I feel that joy and peace inside most times. But sometimes I have an irrational moment, when too much is going on all at once.
What's funny to me today is, I have defended the Duggars and their ways to anyone who has ever said anything negative or doubtful about them. In person....online....anytime and every time. All I have wondered about is if Michelle ever even raises her voice in a disciplinary tone....or does she never need to?? And that wonder just came out of me today.
And just recently.....I noticed their very impressive/new kitchen on the show...and right after that the Little People's renovations were on. So all this stuff started coming together in my head and came out here today. That's all.
I too want to believe in people. And I believe the Duggars are surely worth believing in -- there is so much good in all of them as far as I can see. Inspiring in many, many ways. I certainly am not judging them, in a negative way, if I came across that way. Just wondering a few things, but maybe that is wrong too.
__________________
~ Laura
Blessed: Mama to dd{A}13 y.o., and 7 y.o. triplets ds{J}, dd{O}, ds{S} and wife to Michael
Our House of Joyful Noise
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
BrendaPeter
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 28 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 981
|
| Posted: Jan 06 2009 at 3:51pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Just jumping in to say that the book answers many of the ponderings brought up here.
In their defense, the Duggars take great pains to be extremely thrifty. On their last Discover Health show, Michele took 8 boys by herself (oy vey!) to the thrift store on 1/2 price day to buy 30 pairs of shoes which cost them $30. (They shop for all their clothes at the thrift store and their girls also sew.) The entire show was about how they, as a family, use less resources than most families with fewer kids.
Some of you may know that they pay for everything with cash, including their home. They went without a/c in Arkansas for quite awhile after they built their house because they could not afford it. Not a huge big deal necessarily, except that they couldn't afford to put a lawn in & were able to write their names in the dust that came in through the windows everyday. There were some links in this thread that may be helpful in regard to their financial situation.
As I remember Elizabeth mentioning in a previous thread (which I can't find  ), their house is used not only as a home, but also as a school and church. They list in the book the different functions their house has been used for just in the past 3 years. It is clear that they are very generous people who share the gifts God has given them.
After reading their book, the biggest message that came across to me is the importance of following God's will in your life (even if that means running for a Senatorial seat, like Jim-Bob Duggar did, that you know you'll lose) and the blessings that come to those who do.
I truly admire them as I would have a very difficult time "going public" with my family. Their book is an attempt to answer all (& I do mean ALL including very private ones) the questions that they've been asked. They weren't exactly looking to be such public figures but when the opportunity came along, they prayed and discerned that it was God's will for their family. It seems that they've been given a very special grace in order to do just that.
Praying for their conversion!
__________________
Blessings,
Brenda (mom to 6)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Bridget
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: Michigan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2198
|
| Posted: Jan 06 2009 at 3:55pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
One thing I noticed from the book is that in spite of being given some very nice things, they are still extremely frugal. Used clothes, simple food, homemade laundry detergent. They seem to put their money where it will have the most/best impact on family life.
Josh was married this fall and the kids ARE growing up, maybe becoming a little more sophisticated. That's normal.
They are missing the fullness of the faith, they aren't perfect and, I'm sure they 'mess up'. But they have a pretty good handle on this 'large family, living for the glory of God' life that we so many of us are working on.
They also live a joyful example. I think there is a lot we can learn there. But I learn a whole lot from the moms here too!
__________________
God Bless,
Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
Our Magnum Opus
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
BrendaPeter
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 28 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 981
|
| Posted: Jan 06 2009 at 3:58pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
LLR4 wrote:
| I just wondered if she EVER faulters...or if she is truly just like that all of the time. I love my life too....and certainly revel in the joy and blessings of my faith and family, on a daily basis. I feel that joy and peace inside most times. But sometimes I have an irrational moment, when too much is going on all at once. |
|
|
Obviously I don't know her personally, but on one of the shows I was very struck by how complimentary her children (as well as her dh) are of her. Her children said that she never raises her voice & uses the sweetest tone with them. I can't imagine that that is acting on their part. Both she & her husband talk about dealing with anger in the book and how it was something that they have both strived to overcome.
Overall I've been impressed with how Discovery Health has presented them and their lifestyle. They have included on the show one of their cousins who is obviously not a Christian. She provides a kind of comic-relief. She once mentioned that she has always been treated kindly by them and has never been made to feel uncomfortable even though she dresses differently than they do and has a different belief system.
__________________
Blessings,
Brenda (mom to 6)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MarilynW
Forum All-Star
Joined: June 28 2006
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4275
|
| Posted: Jan 06 2009 at 6:17pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Bridget wrote:
One thing I noticed from the book is that in spite of being given some very nice things, they are still extremely frugal. Used clothes, simple food, homemade laundry detergent. They seem to put their money where it will have the most/best impact on family life.
Josh was married this fall and the kids ARE growing up, maybe becoming a little more sophisticated. That's normal.
They are missing the fullness of the faith, they aren't perfect and, I'm sure they 'mess up'. But they have a pretty good handle on this 'large family, living for the glory of God' life that we so many of us are working on.
They also live a joyful example. I think there is a lot we can learn there. But I learn a whole lot from the moms here too! |
|
|
I had seen Bridget's review on her blog and I was coming here to link it when I saw she had posted. Bridget is one of my "founts of wisdom" - so maybe I will go ahead and read the book!
__________________
Marilyn
Blessed with 6 gifts from God
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Bella
Forum All-Star
Joined: Nov 18 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 571
|
| Posted: Jan 06 2009 at 11:59pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Oh my goodness! I would MUCH rather read the Duggar's book than J & K's!
I would have to let DD read it first,however, as she LOVES big families! If the tv is ever on, she searches for their show ALL THE TIME.
Michelle DOES seem like such a gentle,sweet person. I love how the DC are ALWAYS either outside playing or doing some type of purposeful work.
Inspiring.
Lisbet, I have a DD who would LOVE to move into your neighborhood.
__________________
Peace and Blessings,
Bella
Wife and Mom to my sweeties!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Bookswithtea
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 07 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2621
|
| Posted: Jan 07 2009 at 7:32am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I've followed both shows for a couple of years now. I also know a few families who know the Duggars personally, and I asked one of them, "Do they really never raise their voice?" Yup.  My very normal evangelical friend with 7 children told me, "They aren't perfect. Their little boys wiggle all over the place, but the virtue of gentleness is one that she has worked hard on, for herself." I find that very inspiring, which is why gentle is my word for 2009.
I liked the older shows better, without the industrial kitchens and laundries, just because I find it more interesting to see a large family in normal circumstances. But knowing their commitment to debt free living and how hard they worked in their early years, and also knowing that they started the house project before they were ever on tv, I don't feel too weird about it.
The Duggars aren't evangelicals. Theologically, they are fundamentalists (not all fundamentalists have judgmental spirits, as is often portrayed). I do think they see the fact that the world came to them as an opportunity from God to witness to a different lifestyle.
That *something* uneasy, for me, comes in having some familiarity with the hs program they use. They are ATIA users, which is a Bill Gothard thing. Bill Gothard is the founder of the Institute for Biblical (or maybe its Basic?) Life Principles. That's the same place where they got their debt free ideas. And probably some of those pavlovian kid training ideas, too (very popular in the more conservative protestant hsing circles). I know another family who visited the Duggars in their older Arkansas home, looking for help in how to live the big family lifestyle. My friend came home with some very weird ideas about the buddy system that make me wonder if it looks different on tv or if my friend misunderstood.
Gothard makes me squirm inside. Run an internet search for more information, but his organization definitely has cult like tendencies, including signing off on a lot of weird stuff (like never having a beard) in order to use their curriculum. You aren't ordering a curriculum. You are signing up for an entire system/way of life that is very regimented. Many many evangelical Christians are uncomfortable with the Gothard community. That said, there are people who are Gothard-ites who don't seem cultlike to me at all, so I think its one of those things where it depends on what the family does with it, personally.
I find them to be a really interesting example of the uber-large family lifestyle. And I find them endearing and human. I appreciate their kindness and openness to the world, especially knowing how they feel, theologically, about worldly influences. Its not the Duggars that make me squirm. Its Gothard. Perhaps that is what some others are sensing?
__________________
Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and  due 9/10
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Philothea
Forum All-Star
Joined: Aug 15 2006
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 824
|
| Posted: Jan 07 2009 at 8:03am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I'm probably opening a huge can of worms here, but having watched each show exactly once, I felt I could relate to Kate from JK+8 much better than Michelle Duggar -- but then, I'm in the middle of realizing what a truly poor example of a Christian woman I am, so can please explain to me, using little words, why you all dislike her so much? And what you would have her change about herself to become more worthy of respect? I know in the episode I saw, she vented/complained a lot and didn't speak very respectfully to her husband. Is that the whole of it, or is there more?
It might help me figure out some of the things I'm doing wrong ...
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Elizabeth
Founder
Real Learning
Joined: Jan 20 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5595
|
| Posted: Jan 07 2009 at 8:19am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Let's see if we can refocus this a bit. I'm going to open a new thread and let's talk about the virtues we aspire to as good Catholic wives and mothers in our homes and good Christian witnesses in the world. Let's refrain from citing poor examples and instead talk about positive examples (in our own experience and in public life and in lives of the saints).
__________________
Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Lisbet
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2006
Location: Michigan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2706
|
| Posted: Jan 07 2009 at 9:35am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Elizabeth, I hope it's okay to ask this on this thread, b/c it is specific to the book. Those of you that have read it, does Michelle share specifically how she cultivated such constant gentleness?
I was not raised in a gentle environment at all. I never even considered that a woman could be gentle until I began to learn about the Blessed Mother. I remember the first time I heard the Marian Hymn "Hail Mary Gentle Woman" years ago. The lyrics "Gentle woman, Quite Light" ran over and over in my head for a very long time.
Now I am blessed to have many examples of gentle women around me, and in the lives of the Saints, but I am lacking in concrete examples of how to cultivate this virtue, kwim?
__________________
Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Duggar's New Book
