| Author | |
JoannB
Forum Rookie
Joined: Sept 07 2005
Location: Minnesota
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7
|
| Posted: Nov 22 2005 at 6:58am | IP Logged
|
 |
|
Hi...
I am thirsting to unschool my son. I already am an "electic" homeschooler.
I am concerned that if I turn the corner to unschooling, it will instill laziness. My son would love it if I let him play computer games and legos all day...without combing his hair or brushing his teeth.
He would love to not have to spell or write anything...and grammar.
I don't feel I could "trust" him enough to wake up one day and suddenly have an interest in adverbs or skip counting by 6's.
If I "let him take the lead"....it seems to me, that his attitude would be somewhat lazy.
Gently opinions and advice appreciated....this style of schooling appeals to me...
__________________
Joann
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Willa
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 28 2005
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3881
|
| Posted: Nov 22 2005 at 9:28am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Joann,
I'd love to hear thoughts on this too.
I am sure it is possible to unschool without laziness. I think an unschooler would probably say the unschooled child would not naturally skip count or drill adverbs because those aren't natural ways to learn. We all naturally do things the most efficient way possible and I know I personally learned about adverbs from vast amounts of reading for fun. Understanding parts of speech derived from that enjoyable foundation.
In my experimenting with unschooling, I still have a morning routine. My kids brush their hair and teeth because it's part of their daily routine. It's more of a life skill than an academic skill, I think.
My "problem" with unschooling is that it seems to give ME permission to be lazy. IE do my own thing and not stay involved enough with my kids. I am pretty sure it doesn't work that way with Lissa or Leonie or Julie or MacBeth or Cindy or Molly or Maria or Karen or other board members who call themselves unschoolers (have I missed anyone? <G>). But it does, to me. We seem to be struggling with what Charlotte Mason called "desultoriness". When my children develop an interest, I hesitate to jump on it and make it a vehicle for academics because in the past, that has very firmly squelched further interest. But just letting them go in fits and starts seems like "not enough" to me.
My compromise for now has been to be more structured in things like tooth-brushing and math that they would not do naturally, and "unschool" things that they do for the sheer delight. My 9yo has become fascinated with dinosaurs so our main science agenda this year has been following and facilitating his delight in this subject.
I too would love to hear comments from others on this subject. Hope you get some more expert answers 
__________________
AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
ladybugs
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3732
|
| Posted: Nov 22 2005 at 10:07am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Hi Joann,
Spelling is something that I get nervous about, too...and I know MacBeth has stated that it doesn't count  , my I still can get a wee bit panicky...
What I have found that works is having them write letters to their friends or we actually have been doing something called "Jam" writing....which is essentially what Julie at Bravewriter calls, "Friday Freewrite." (I didn't know about that when a girlfriend told me about Jam writing). ...Bravewriter.
I have found that when they write things out, they very much care about how things are spelled....
We also do a little thing where when they ask me how to spell things, I spell them out in sign language...I have seen my girls actually spell with their hands in order to recall something or try and figure it out. I love that! Sad to say, but it has been handy when I have been on the phone   .
We've also recently started playing a game where I spell something out in sign language and they have to guess what it is...I usually do the very common words and the beginning reading words for the littler girls...
So, I hope that helps and gives a little insight into our wacky household  !
I'll be interested in hearing from the REAL experts...  !
__________________
Love and God Bless,
Maria P
My etsy store - all proceeds go to help my fencing daughters!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Lissa
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 28 2005
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 748
|
| Posted: Nov 22 2005 at 10:22am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Great topic, Joann. I have a couple of thoughts, but I'll add the caveat that my oldest child is 10 1/2, and I really look to folks like Leonie and Julie for insights as to how self-directed education plays out with older kids. Actually, MacBeth, yours are getting up there now too, aren't they?
JoannB wrote:
| I am concerned that if I turn the corner to unschooling, it will instill laziness. My son would love it if I let him play computer games and legos all day...without combing his hair or brushing his teeth. |
|
|
Well, for me there is a distinction between All the Interesting Stuff There Is to Know About the World and The Business of Life We Simply Must Attend To. Certainly these areas are interwoven through our daily lives, but there is plenty of stuff I *make* my kids do in the course of a day—actually, it's the same sort of stuff I'd be making them do if I sent them to school or followed a structured curriculum at home. Hair and tooth-brushing fall into that category. We all do morning and evening chores, and there are other times throughout the day when I'm likely to call in one or more of the kids to help me with a household task. Or thank-you notes, there's another example—I guess you could say I don't "unschool" thank-you notes. And if I'm paying for piano lessons, I'm going to make sure there's some daily practice time woven into our daily routine. (But I wouldn't *insist* upon piano lessons for a kid who didn't want to take them--that's where the unschooler in me kicks in.)
There are folks out there who would disagree with me, but I don't see unschooling as meaning mom never *requires* the child to do anything. For me, "unschooling" is a way of describing our family's approach to absorbing knowledge, an approach which is quite unlike the methods used in schools. But perceiving ourselves as unschoolers doesn't (have to) mean allowing our kids total freedom of choice in everything. Rhythm and routine are, I believe, important and beneficial for children (and yes, adults). Knowing that certain things (like chores) are done at a certain time may start out a nuisance but becomes a comfort over time. Charlotte Mason wrote eloquently about this when she talked about the benefits of good habits—having good habits firmly established ultimately frees us from the burden of having to *decide* every minute what to do or not to do. If I have the habit of writing a thank-you note the same day I receive a gift (would that I did!) , I am spared the guilty nagging "I really need to do that" pressure that would otherwise haunt me for the next two or three weeks. Likewise, if my kids know that their room must be tidied every day after breakfast and that's just the way it is, I am sparing our relationships a lot of nagging and hassle in the long run.
So I think what I'm getting at is that if one concern is that unschooling your son would give him carte blanche to ignore his household or personal responsibilities, you can rest easy knowing that an unschooling lifestyle and good domestic habits (the stuff I call the business of life) aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. 
Now for the other category, the Stuff there Is to Know About the World—what we might call the traditional academic or school subjects.
Quote:
He would love to not have to spell or write anything...and grammar.
I don't feel I could "trust" him enough to wake up one day and suddenly have an interest in adverbs or skip counting by 6's. |
|
|
He might never develop a sudden interest in adverbs, but he might develop a sudden interest in Mad-Libs! Especially if it meant he could regale you with page after page of his witticisms...at least, that's how it happened for us. (Somedays my prayer is, Lord, deliver me from Mad-Libs!! Shh, don't tell my kids.) The ways he'd go about absorbing knowledge might not appear, at first, to be 'real learning.' But over time, it becomes apparent that amazing, constant learning is taking place. I think the key is creating an atmosphere that is rich with interesting resources and experiences—strewing the path with great books, but not saying "here, you must read this," just leaving them where they'll be found and devoured, or maybe ignored for now and discovered some other time. And an amiable, eager flow of discussion amongst the members of the family. The sharing of ideas, the "hey listen to this" moments where someone just HAS to share this interesting tidbit they just came across. Jim Trelease, the Read-Aloud Handbook author, wrote a second book called HEY LISTEN TO THIS! because his kids told him that was the phrase they most identified with their dad. He was always excited about something he'd read and just had to share, and this cultivated in the children a similar passion for reading and talking about the things they read. I love that!
Shoot, I'm being paged--had more to add but will stop now--maybe lucky for you! I've in the middle of a long blog piece on this very subject and am longwinded, my apologies!
__________________
Lissa
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
ladybugs
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3732
|
| Posted: Nov 22 2005 at 10:34am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Lissa wrote:
For me, "unschooling" is a way of describing our family's approach to absorbing knowledge, an approach which is quite unlike the methods used in schools. But perceiving ourselves as unschoolers doesn't (have to) mean allowing our kids total freedom of choice in everything. |
|
|
I agree, fwiw...and we do some things that are traditional, here...since Steve is more of a traditional dude, he recently said he wants the kids "doing" math everyday...so, I am obliging him...with some workbooks and Isabella seems to like Saxon Math...I had a copy of here for a friend and she picked it up one day two weeks ago and she loves it! But that's an aside...
Lissa wrote:
| He might never develop a sudden interest in adverbs, but he might develop a sudden interest in Mad-Libs! |
|
|
Oh, I forgot about this! We actually did MadLibs, Junior for like 2-3 weeks this past October...this also lead to the whole Schoolhouse Rock thing...and unpacking my adjectives ...oh, I LOVE those songs...I can feel the rhythm now!  ...
I think for us, unschooling is often sneaky schooling...it's finding a way to naturally draw in what they "need" to know in a creative way.
Better run...the volume of the natives is rising....and it's not 'cause they're unpacking their adjectives...
__________________
Love and God Bless,
Maria P
My etsy store - all proceeds go to help my fencing daughters!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Cay Gibson
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 16 2005
Location: Louisiana
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5193
|
| Posted: Nov 22 2005 at 10:44am | IP Logged
|
|
|
WJFR wrote:
| When my children develop an interest, I hesitate to jump on it and make it a vehicle for academics because in the past, that has very firmly squelched further interest. |
|
|
Willa,
Alison McKee talks about this in her book HSing Our Children, Unschooling Ourselves.
Joann,
I hesitate to call my family *unschoolers* because:
1) dh would freak
2) I like and use too many educational sources
3) We practice a little CM, a little Montessori, a little unschool, a little classical ed via DYOCC, a little workbooks, a lot literature, etc.
We're eclectic at best and I think unschooling is part of being eclectic. We have become more unschooling this year due to various circumstances and commitments.
I think unschooling is mostly in the parent observing and practicing *masterly inactivity*. There has to be lots of strewing and exposure and parental observation of what your ds does throughout the day. Contrary to Willa's concerns about the parent becoming lazy, I find unschooling relaxes the parent enough to enjoy their dc and the whole learning process. I know it has for me this year. It isn't that we don't learn, we just don't stress about it because we see it happening all day long in everything we do. Unschooling actually has made me more focused and aware of how and what my dc learn. Everything becomes a learning experience!
Again, my family, as so many here, probably aren't *unschooling* completely. Eclectic primarily defines my family. I love CM and unschooling. CHC seems to work well with all 3 of these methods.
Also, unschooling doesn't totally eliminate paperwork and such. That's where we fall back on CM which is so much a part of this MB. So many of us combine unschooling with CM because we have your concerns as well. CM wrote about discipline. This was the educational part of her method. In a normal week we have table time typically from 9AM-12N.
This requires each child to practice self-discipline and sit down to do some math and other subjects. This is when my dc do their CHC lessons. We don't do the *whole* program, but we get quite a bit done.
My family uses the library extensively for science and history tapes. I personally learn so much from these tapes, so it works well in my home.
We have a cousin here from Lafayette. The girls spent yesterday writing up menus (writing & spelling) and decorating them (art). They served us as various ones went to their *restaurant* (career skills/etiquette). They took our order and we had to pay afterwards. They totalled and collected our nickels and dimes (math).
They went outside with the big pink ball (P.E.) and played in the playhouse. They helped cook spaghetti for supper (home economics).
We're finishing up the dollhouse they got last Christmas (home interior). We measured and cut out wallpaper and flooring (math again/ geometry). We're almost finished. They'll help their daddy put the shingles on the roof (carpentry).
But, back to your situation, I think the way to motivate your ds past the legos and computer games is to strew and exposure and observe. Take note of anything else your ds does during the day. Sit down and do the legos and games with him and converse to see what other interests he has.
Go on a field trip and see where it leads you. Go to the library and see what books/tapes he selects.
Read everyday for the first week Lissa's blog post ~ In Case You're Wondering... and Julie's Bravewriter blog.
Read Homeschooling with Gentleness by Susie Andres. You'll be relieved to see that workbooks *work* in an unschooling household. We just don't become slaves to them.
Concerning math, even MacBeth and Lissa have recommended good math programs. It's not taboo to order and use a good one. MacBeth has used Saxon! Certainly that's reassuring. 
You mentioned "trusting" your child. Read Ch. 10 of McKee's *HSing Our Children, Unschooling Ourselves*:
"Learning to Trust in Our Children"
Check Leonie's blog. She a tested, proven inspiration. 
Just my brief twenty cents...
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Cay Gibson
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 16 2005
Location: Louisiana
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5193
|
| Posted: Nov 22 2005 at 10:46am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Skip my post.
I see Lissa posted while I was typing (with numerous interruptions) and I'd rather read her post any day.
I was hoping she'd post and now hope she'll write more regarding this subject...
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Cay Gibson
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 16 2005
Location: Louisiana
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5193
|
| Posted: Nov 22 2005 at 11:06am | IP Logged
|
|
|
ladybugs wrote:
Spelling is something that I get nervous about, too...and I know MacBeth has stated that it doesn't count , my I still can get a wee bit panicky...
|
|
|
Spelling is something I rarely stress over.
Why?
Various reasons...
1) my dh is very smart, can figure out almost anything, can fix just about anything, is a jack-of-all-trades, is the sole provider for a family of 7 and makes a good living for us...his spelling is awful...so are my boys.
2) I've seen the writing of my dc's public schooled friends and my dc's spelling is way better than theirs...so there!
3) I depend on lots of reading to teach my dc proper spelling
4) We do a couple of workbook pages in CHC spelling once a week...no sweat!
5) My dd has just asked me how to spell a litany of words. I'm not sure what she's writing but I'm glad she's writing so I patiently spell the needed words for her and don't make a big deal of it. Repetition is what teaches. She's writing something that she'll be reading again. It'll stick in time.
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Leonie
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 28 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2831
|
| Posted: Nov 22 2005 at 4:47pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
On a Catholic unschooling email list of which I am a member, we talk about the dance of relationship and the dance of unschooling.
In other words, this unschooling idea of education is not necessarily child led or parent led but a dance together, a bit of both.
I think this concept leaves room for each family to develop their own dance - to make suggestions to each other, to talk, to work together, to negotiate, to compromise, to make lists of have tos ( what we call choose tos ) and want tos.
And maybe your ds would not "be lazy" - and maybe we can talk about choosing good or best over better , for ourselves and our dc? Just thinking out loud!
A quote from the book The Yoga of Eating: Transcending Diets and Dogma to Nourish the Natural Self by Charles Eisenstein, reminds me that it is not always about laziness or the lack of willpower -
<<Reliance on willpower reveals a profound distrust of one's self. We seem to think that what we really want to do must be bad, indulgent:therefore we must exercise willpower to enforce better behaviour. Life becomes a constant regimen of 'shoulds' and 'shouldn'ts'. But maybe this distrust is misplaced. Let's think about it more carefully: What if you really did lose your willpower tomorrow? Yes maybe you would sleep in- but is that laziness, or a genuine need for rest? Maybe you would miss work- but couldn't that mean your work is not your soul's true work, and no longer do you force yourself to do it? you might stay in bed until ten, even until twelve, but eventually the bed would become uncomfortable. you might sit around doing nothing for a while, eating chocolate bon-bons and watching television, but eventually you'd become restless. Without work and chores escapism loses its appeal. Maybe you'd feel free to catch up on neglected areas of your life. Maybe you would spend all day with your child, or a friend, or in nature. Maybe you would take up a creative project you'd never had the time or energy to do. maybe this creative project would turn into a new career, a job that you are excited to wake up to. Maybe, just maybe life without willpower would be more creative, more abundant, more productive and more dynamic than the life of should's and shouldn'ts.>>>
Okay, this isn't a perfect argument,from a Catholic POV, but it gives me food for thought - is it laziness or a real need?
__________________
Leonie in Sydney
Living Without School
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
tovlo4801
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 28 2005
Location: Minnesota
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 386
|
| Posted: Nov 22 2005 at 7:04pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Leonie wrote:
| On a Catholic unschooling email list of which I am a member, |
|
|
Please tell me more about this!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
tovlo4801
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 28 2005
Location: Minnesota
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 386
|
| Posted: Nov 22 2005 at 7:19pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Willa wrote:
My "problem" with unschooling is that it seems to give ME permission to be lazy. IE do my own thing and not stay involved enough with my kids.
|
|
|
I think I have a similar tendency to yours, Willa, but I'm learning this might not be such a bad thing. I suspect from watching your posts for so long that you might underestimate the value of your interests on your kids learning. Lissa's comments below hit on what I've observed in our house.
Lissa wrote:
The sharing of ideas, the "hey listen to this" moments where someone just HAS to share this interesting tidbit they just came across. Jim Trelease, the Read-Aloud Handbook author, wrote a second book called HEY LISTEN TO THIS! because his kids told him that was the phrase they most identified with their dad. He was always excited about something he'd read and just had to share, and this cultivated in the children a similar passion for reading and talking about the things they read. I love that!
|
|
|
This is what I'm learning. My dh and I love learning. We have our own interests and when we're excited about them it just overflows into the course of our family life. My dh listened to Bill Bryson (?) A Short History of Everything on CD a month or so ago. He was always saying, "Hey, listen to this." Pretty soon I was listening to the set while I worked and Nick was nearby listening as well. We all learned a great deal and enjoyed the wonderfully humorous way he used language to tell about science.
I've developed a fascination with writing over the last couple of months. A couple people from the Bravewriter site decided to join into a month long novel writing group. My excitement about pursuing something I've always wanted to do has definitely perked my son's interest in writing. We've had long discussions about plot and characters for the novel he wants to write. I think he's going to join me next year. I've read sections of my writing to him and we've talked about having the courage to write even when it's horrible. He's watching me write badly and hopefully I'll eventually teach him by example that the way to get better at writing is to keep writing.
Just allowing ourselves to be so excited about our own interests that we can't help but share them with others is a wonderful way to teach.
Quote from the book "The Man Who Counted" that I noted because it summed up for me so well where I'm at educationally right now.
"Wise men teach by example, and there is nothing that captures the human spirit more convincingly than example."
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Willa
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 28 2005
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3881
|
| Posted: Nov 23 2005 at 7:47am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Cay Gibson wrote:
[You mentioned "trusting" your child. Read Ch. 10 of McKee's *HSing Our Children, Unschooling Ourselves*:
"Learning to Trust in Our Children"
|
|
|
Also, Suzie Andres talks about trust in this
interview
".... Unschooling is only one approach to education among many, and Catholic families need the freedom and encouragement to explore which method is best for their own situation. ...
"The element of unschooling that I would love to see all families embrace is the virtue of trust. I think the heart of unschooling is the trust that grows between parent and child. The parent embarks on a cycle of trusting the child to learn, seeing that the child does learn, and thus having that trust increased. The child’s assurance of the parent’s love and confidence in him grows as well. Perhaps most important of all, the parent and child grow in their trust in God – His plan for their lives, His patience, His eternal Merciful Love. I know firsthand, from myself and from friends’ shared confidences, the incredible weight that Catholic parents feel from the responsibility to raise our children in the faith, in the midst of a hostile culture. I pray that we will all learn that God is near, is helping us, and has given us all we need. And He does not expect us to manufacture our children’s success and salvation on our own. He has provided for all these things; we need to learn to trust Him."
__________________
AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Willa
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 28 2005
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3881
|
| Posted: Nov 23 2005 at 8:12am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Leonie wrote:
| (quoting someone else)<<Reliance on willpower reveals a profound distrust of one's self. We seem to think that what we really want to do must be bad, indulgent:therefore we must exercise willpower to enforce better behaviour. |
|
|
Leonie,
for some reason this reminds me of Charlotte Mason. Though she valued the importance of will, she didn't really think much of "will power". She thought it was ineffective --
Richelle,
Are you doing the National Novel Writing Month -- My daughter is doing that!
Another thought about laziness. I've often thought busy-ness can be a cover for a sort of laziness. One of my children used to ask for his school checklist so he could whip through all his subjects and be done. Now the same kid spends all day reading a book or toils for hours crunching statistics for his imaginary football league. If I added this all up as "time on task" -- which it IS, really -- he would be working harder than he was before. So in some ways, I think laziness has to be redefined. In a book I was reading, the author mentioned our country's residue of Calvinism: "If it is enjoyable, it has to be morally wrong". That's not really a Catholic point of view.
__________________
AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Willa
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 28 2005
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3881
|
| Posted: Nov 23 2005 at 8:41am | IP Logged
|
|
|
One more thought. I'm still thinking this through myself. This connects a bit with the trust and laziness issue but don't ask me how .
My kids and I are introverts which means we hyper-focus on things, need time to process, get tired and depleted easily by sensory input, and feel a very close mind-body connection. This can LOOK like laziness. So I have been relieved to find it's just how we're set up. It validates my own personal experience, that I can get an immense amount done, but everything else slides when I'm doing it, and then I have to stare at the wall for some time before I can get going again.
Cay talks about 9-12 "table time". This is "unschooling" to her, but to us, it's honestly academic overload. Context comes in handy here! I've NEVER managed to make myself or my kids do more than 3 hours of formal schooling in a day. We burn out, big time. When I'm talking about our mixed form of unschooling, I'm talking about 15 to 30 minutes (!) of seatwork.
My kids need lots of Lego time or the equivalent, and they will not brush their teeth or their hair unless reminded. I will not, either, quite honestly. I have to put it on a note to myself and then write a note to remind me to remind the kids
I worry a bit because the way my family functions best isn't really the way our society's set up. Our society is set up for structure and activity and lots of it. So if I unschool, am I raising my kids in a glass bubble? That's where trust comes in. I suppose theoretically, I believe that if you give kids a solid foundation, what they NEED, then they will be stronger because their needs have been validated and met. For instance, I practice attachment parenting for those reasons. It gets harder (for me) as the kids get older and I see that while they may learn more and be happier with one approach, that this is NOT the approach that is most conventional and most acceptable to the "outside world". But again, perhaps trust is an issue here. How best can I raise my kids so they are prepared for what God has in store for them?
So there you go, I hope this makes sense a bit.
__________________
AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
ladybugs
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3732
|
| Posted: Nov 23 2005 at 10:23am | IP Logged
|
|
|
WJFR wrote:
My kids and I are introverts which means we hyper-focus on things, need time to process, get tired and depleted easily by sensory input, and feel a very close mind-body connection. This can LOOK like laziness. So I have been relieved to find it's just how we're set up. It validates my own personal experience, that I can get an immense amount done, but everything else slides when I'm doing it, and then I have to stare at the wall for some time before I can get going again.
Cay talks about 9-12 "table time". This is "unschooling" to her, but to us, it's honestly academic overload. Context comes in handy here! I've NEVER managed to make myself or my kids do more than 3 hours of formal schooling in a day. We burn out, big time. When I'm talking about our mixed form of unschooling, I'm talking about 15 to 30 minutes (!) of seatwork.
My kids need lots of Lego time or the equivalent, and they will not brush their teeth or their hair unless reminded. I will not, either, quite honestly. I have to put it on a note to myself and then write a note to remind me to remind the kids
I worry a bit because the way my family functions best isn't really the way our society's set up. Our society is set up for structure and activity and lots of it. So if I unschool, am I raising my kids in a glass bubble? That's where trust comes in. I suppose theoretically, I believe that if you give kids a solid foundation, what they NEED, then they will be stronger because their needs have been validated and met. For instance, I practice attachment parenting for those reasons. It gets harder (for me) as the kids get older and I see that while they may learn more and be happier with one approach, that this is NOT the approach that is most conventional and most acceptable to the "outside world". But again, perhaps trust is an issue here. How best can I raise my kids so they are prepared for what God has in store for them?
So there you go, I hope this makes sense a bit.
|
|
|
Hey Willa,
I was going to take your post in quotes but I'm so pressed for time....
Today is Sophia's birthday!
Anyway, I wonder if unschooling is a draw for certainly personality types?
I'm like you...we can't do much seatwork here...30 minutes maybe 45 is max! I have wondered so often, "Do we lack discipline?" "Are my kids not obedient?"
No, I think my kids just learn in different ways and sometimes the time of day matters. Is this a glass bubble or thinking outside the box? I don't know. But I figure that God has wired us. When I was teaching, I had such a difficulty following a curriculum. I just couldn't. I used to (and sometimes still when I fall into the trap of comparing), "What is wrong with me?" There were so many variables that in a large environment, I had to go for the method that seemed to work best for everyone...games. The children learned and were excited to learn...
Right now, I have to go but would love to address this further.
I checked out the book A Different Kind of Teacher: Solving the Crisis of American Schooling from the library on Monday night. I plan to start reading it this morning! I have no idea what this book is about but I'm wondering...maybe being a "different kind of teacher" to "different kind of students"....maybe that's not a bad thing. My Isabella has always marched to her own beat. If I were to really press her in terms of fitting into traditional roles, I think it would squash her. I don't know what God has in store for her. What if she is to be a missionary? What if she is to be a mother of 10 boys? I figure that God wired her and since she's not sinning in terms of those choices (kwim?), then she's Isabella.
I think others are much more experienced than I so sometimes I wonder why I post about my experiences...maybe it's to hash it out so that I understand...
Now, I really must go...Isabella and Juliana are goint to a friend's house and Sophia and Joseph are off to atrium.
A blessed Thanksgiving to all.
__________________
Love and God Bless,
Maria P
My etsy store - all proceeds go to help my fencing daughters!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Cay Gibson
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 16 2005
Location: Louisiana
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5193
|
| Posted: Nov 23 2005 at 12:59pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
WJFR wrote:
Cay talks about 9-12 "table time". This is "unschooling" to her, but to us, it's honestly academic overload.
|
|
|
Willa,
Real quick cause I'm on my way out the door...
This 9AM-12N *Table Time* is simply the part of our day I don't schedule anything beyond the walls of our house. Monday - Friday, this part of the day is when I make it a habit (with myself) to make sure the dc are doing something educational...it calms my own doubts and fears. That's all.
We're either reading, writing a story, doing workbook pages, listening to a Spanish tape, watching a History video, playing Monopoly, etc. Oh, and we cover a lesson in Math.
When I look at our whole day, the dc are doing these things; but there are days I notice too much television, too much playstation, and too late sleeping.
If you look at the fact that it takes me 6-9 AM just to get through my cup of coffee and get dressed, I'm not functioning in high mode at all!
I don't know how but my 12 year old ds can spend 9AM-3 PM in his room doing school work! But not because he likes it; it's because he knows he isn't allowed on the television or playstation. Talk about an introvert. I have to make sure he comes out of his abode during this hour and show his sisters how to do something, or read to Annie, or do the farm set with her, etc.
On days that are *not* school days, he's sitting in front of the television, on his playstation, or on the computer. I'm very relieved when a friend calls him to go play golf or go watch a ballgame at the rec center. <Whew!> It's getting him out of the house that's the problem.
I have something to say about introvertism (?).
I don't know if my social-butterfly is during into one, simply woke up on the wrong side of the bed, is just in a bad mood, or is under stress  . I need help in figuring her out.
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Rachel May
Forum All-Star
Joined: June 24 2005
Location: Kansas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2057
|
| Posted: Nov 23 2005 at 1:06pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I can't add to the wisdom already here about unschooling and laziness, but I have a practical suggestion that may help.
JoannB wrote:
I am thirsting to unschool my son. I already am an "electic" homeschooler.... My son would love it if I let him play computer games and legos all day...without combing his hair or brushing his teeth.
I don't feel I could "trust" him enough to wake up one day and suddenly have an interest in adverbs or skip counting by 6's. |
|
|
Have you thought of making Legos part of his school? I got hooked on this forum because of this topic Lego Lapbook Suggestions. I have been wanting to try it, but I have a tendency to get excited, leave things half done and try something new. My husband for some reason thinks my kind of homeschool is flakey so I try to keep him in mind when I make changes.
Anyway, maybe if you start with Legos for school they will bring up other rabbit trails. Maybe he wouldn't mind writing about Legos?
Oh, by the way, if he's like my sons, Legos have already taught him to skip count by 6 (and 2 and 3 and....).
__________________
Rachel
Thomas and Anthony (10), Maria (8), Charles (6), Cecilia (5), James (3), and Joseph (1)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
tovlo4801
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 28 2005
Location: Minnesota
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 386
|
| Posted: Nov 23 2005 at 1:58pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
JoannB wrote:
I don't feel I could "trust" him enough to wake up one day and suddenly have an interest in adverbs or skip counting by 6's.
|
|
|
I was re-reading the posts and something hit me as I read yours again. Last spring was when I let everything go and gave unschooling a try. It was very nerve wracking and I'm still prone to day long bouts of "am I doing enough?". The thing that has really developed for me is the art of noticing.
In my taking a step back and just trying this, I began to notice what my kids were just naturally learning on their own. So rather than planning and teaching what I want them to know when I want them to know it, I'm spending a lot of time just noticing and mentally logging their natural learning.
My youngest (5 yr old) just does math. I have a program that I occasionally do with him, but honestly it's 5 minutes every couple of weeks. My son wanders around doing math in his head and then asking us if the problem he's worked out is right. That's math! He can add double digit numbers in his head and multiply. I haven't taught him a thing. I just noticed and supported what his mind wanted to do. He's also a great reader, but seems more mathematically inclined. So I try to notice when he's reading. He's playing a video game and I ask him to read something on the screen. He of course can. If he wants to spell something I help him with it and if it's got odd phonics in it, I take a minute to explain that "igh" in night sounds like "i". He's getting it and I'm not making it a big deal or specifically teaching it. I'm just noticing.
I wonder if he would be doing all the things he's doing on his own if his day was filled with scheduled learning? The other day he drew an isosceles triangle and my husband took the opportunity to explain about that kind of triangle to him. My dh just noticed. In the car the other day this son said, "Mom, there are three kinds of numbers, odd, even and negative." I told him that there are actually many ways of grouping numbers and ran through a bunch of them. Way over his head, but because I was noticing where his mind was running I could expose him to something at a point when it meant something to him. In the car the other day he looked out the window and said, "The ground looks like an Oreo pie." (It had just snowed and bits of plowed dirt were showing through the thin layer of snow.) I complimented him on his wonderful description and said that I thought he would make a wonderful writer someday. This being the boy with little interest in the literary side of education, I was pleased to see him smiling proudly at my compliment. My noticing might have encouraged a stronger interest.
So...unschooling as noticing. How's that?
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Leonie
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 28 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2831
|
| Posted: Nov 23 2005 at 5:02pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I really do think it comes down to trust - and to thinking outside of the box!
Willa, your dc may surprise you with a need for structure as they grow older, go to college, set out to work.I think you may be too hard on yourself !
Or your dc may completely step out of the box and set up a small business, set their own hours, and so on.
I think that putting structure on and wearing it is not the same thing as developing the discipline needed to work in this world. One is a structure imposed from outside - but will it last? Don't we all know people who went to school, who had structure imposed, yet they find it difficult to meet structure now? And who may seem to flounder wrt knowing themselves, their strengths and goals and what they want out of life?
It has been my exerience that children who come from an unschool-ish background become young adults who know themselves well, who rise to the challenge of work or study when ready and the the need or opportunity arises.
I think the years of unschooling ( -ishness ) has given them a safety net of self knowledge and a safety net of interests on which to build.
Here are some good articles by Alison McKee -
Teens, Doubting Unschooling
__________________
Leonie in Sydney
Living Without School
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
BrendaPeter
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 28 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 981
|
| Posted: Nov 23 2005 at 6:05pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Please forgive me if I missed this, as I've only had an opportunity to skim through the posts. One thing I've noticed about homeschooling is that even when we're in the habit of "doing" academics on a regular basis, there is a significant amount of "idle" time - i.e. after the kids have played with their legos, read a few library books, etc. they start to "annoy" each other. I find that I have to be really careful about allowing the days to be too unstructured. I'm constantly in search of "real learning" possibilities for my kids to alleviate this - working a garden, raising chickens, etc. are possibilities. Unfortunately this idleness often has to do with the modern life & all its "conveniences." Often this makes me more tired than having them practice their handwriting . Leonie, do you have this problem? It seems that with our boys, if they don't do formal school, they play & then they play & then they play some more & some more with lots of annoying in between. I don't see them
taking any initiative on their own to "learn" much anyway. They actually seem to be much happier when they know what's on the agenda.
Another thought I have is that with unschooling, I worry that I won't be preparing my children for adulthood. My husband & I both worked hard in school. As Leonie mentioned, it was definitely imposed but for some reason seemed to stick. I think (maybe I'm wrong) that's what prepared us for this somewhat rigorous life (i.e. homeschooling & raising 6 kids & my husband's extremely demanding job).
Please ignore my comments if it breaks the flow of this interesting thread. These are just some honest thoughts that are on my heart & have been for a long time. I appreciate what Willa wrote about the temperaments. My closest friend is a melancholic & has the same tendencies as Willa & her family, although she is very structured with school (may be her upbringing?). Personally, I have to be structured or unschooling will become unmothering in our house. For me it always comes down to "balance". I find that even the most structured homeschooler usually has a generous dose of unschooling thrown in. It just can't be helped!
So wonderful to read everyone's comments..
__________________
Blessings,
Brenda (mom to 6)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
Forum Locked) 
4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Unschooling and laziness?
