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ALmom
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| Posted: Jan 11 2007 at 5:14pm | IP Logged
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The one thing I wonder is with the question:"Will they hurt us?" Your answer was No - and to a child that is definitive. I'm not sure what else you can say, because of the children's ages, etc. but the honest answer is "I don't know" because that is why you are not stopping - if you were sure they wouldn't hurt you, you would stop. That may be where some of the confusion is coming from - if they won't hurt us, then why don't we stop.
My dh and I were asked by someone supposedly stranded at campus and asking for money for gas for her car so she could get home. Our dc saw our dilemma as we were discussing what to do in the privacy of our car - she might just really need that and we hate to leave her stranded - it does get dark and the university is dark. We decided that the circumstances were such that we could fill a gas can and bring the can to her without danger - and better to risk helping and her being a huckster than not helping and leaving the lady stranded. Well - we came back and dh gave her the can. It always takes us a while to actually get moving so we were all there as line after line of cars kept coming back with gas cans. She must have had a whole car full of gas cans and made off like a bandit. Our children saw this happen and know why we don't always "give" when asked.
Also there are lots of different kinds of things that need done, different charities that ask for your assistance - and you do have to be prudent in where best to offer assistance. The church does provide some guidelines in terms of this very thing - some depends on the severity of the problem, the degree of relationship to the one in need (ie there is a graver obligation to immediate family) and the impact of your charity on your primary responsibility (ie it could be sinful to offer assistance if in doing so you are leaving your own family destitute). Now these are some extreme examples and we all have an obligation to share the blessings of God with those less fortunate - but we must exercise prudence in this.
I do feel saddened by the less personal way things are done now - but you can usually find ways to personalize it a bit more by being attentive to the needs of those close to you. There are probably elderly in the parish that need yard work, or are lonely and there is bound to be a struggling student who is barely making ends meet and sometimes someone's unemployment becomes known, etc. These may not be as seriously in need as the person on the street but because we can assist, we do. There are also things like habitat for humanity that involves building houses, etc. and there may be groups volunteering at shelters.
I know that after the hurricane many did open their homes. We have lots of space and I wanted to open ours - but my dh wisely pointed out that we don't know who we would be bringing into our homes and there were plenty of criminal elements taking advantage of things. We had an obligation to the safety of our children that took precedence. However, we would have opened our home to a neighbor, a relative, a relative of a friend or specific person for whom we had some sense of their character - and we would have done it in a heartbeat. If we'd had a house for sale that we were not living in or ran a hotel/bed and breakfast - then that would have been open too.
Janet
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SuzanneG
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| Posted: Jan 11 2007 at 11:30pm | IP Logged
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ALmom wrote:
| The one thing I wonder is with the question:"Will they hurt us?" Your answer was No - and to a child that is definitive. I'm not sure what else you can say, because of the children's ages, etc. but the honest answer is "I don't know" because that is why you are not stopping - if you were sure they wouldn't hurt you, you would stop. That may be where some of the confusion is coming from - if they won't hurt us, then why don't we stop. |
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Hmmmm....Yes, good point, Janet.
ALmom wrote:
| I do feel saddened by the less personal way things are done now - but you can usually find ways to personalize it a bit more by being attentive to the needs of those close to you. These may not be as seriously in need as the person on the street but because we can assist, we do. |
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This would be good discussion too....to point out the times we and others we know do to help others (although not as serious).
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Suzanne in ID
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MaryM
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| Posted: Jan 12 2007 at 12:12am | IP Logged
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Suzanne, I think your dialogue with the children was just right.
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Mary M. in Denver
Our Domestic Church
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Jane Ramsey
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| Posted: Jan 12 2007 at 7:37am | IP Logged
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I think that we can help the children to distinguish between "poor people" and "criminals".
We encountered something like this a while ago when our boys were enamoured with soldiers. They thought all sodiers were heroes. Then they heard/saw soldiers doing bad things (e.g., the soldiers who whipped Jesus). We had to explain that, just like all people, some soldiers are good, and some are bad. We've had this discussion many times about various classes of people.
On this topic, we can explain that some poor people are good--they really are trying to do better, but need some help; and some are bad--they will hurt or harass us, or just want money for bad things.
Kids tend to see everything in black and white: "they're all good and we need to help them"; or "they're all bad and I'm afraid of them". We can help them to see that there is a mix, and with God's help we can overcome our fears to give charity to those who really need it, but be wise in avoiding those who would hurt us.
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MacBeth
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| Posted: Jan 12 2007 at 10:53am | IP Logged
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Jane Ramsey wrote:
I think that we can help the children to distinguish between "poor people" and "criminals".
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But some are just mentally ill, which is different, and a more delicate discussion. 
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MacBeth in NY
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SuzanneG
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| Posted: Jan 13 2007 at 1:19am | IP Logged
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Jane Ramsey wrote:
We encountered something like this a while ago when our boys were enamoured with soldiers. They thought all sodiers were heroes. Then they heard/saw soldiers doing bad things (e.g., the soldiers who whipped Jesus). We had to explain that, just like all people, some soldiers are good, and some are bad. We've had this discussion many times about various classes of people.
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THAT was the obsession last year at Easter....soldiers in Iraq, roman soldiers, american soldiers, wwII French soldiers....the explanations of who was good and who was bad....it went on and on and on.... 
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Suzanne in ID
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SuzanneG
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Jane Ramsey wrote:
| Kids tend to see everything in black and white: "they're all good and we need to help them"; or "they're all bad and I'm afraid of them". We can help them to see that there is a mix, and with God's help we can overcome our fears to give charity to those who really need it, but be wise in avoiding those who would hurt us. |
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This is so true, Jane, thansk for putting it into words. I read this to my dh tonight, and it helped him/us a lot.
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Suzanne in ID
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Jane Ramsey
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I'm so glad. I think my earlier comments reflected my inexperience with this issue. We live in the country and the only time we have to deal with this is on an occassional trip to the city. Not having to deal with it every day, I'm not afraid of handing out a dollar to a beggar...but I really have not had to deal with the "criminal element" involved. Forgive me if I was "preachy".
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almamater
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My uncle has a stash of baggies that includes a McD's gift certificate, a bus ticket and a little paper that says something about the need to belong to the One True and Holy Catholic Church.
I haven't done anything consistent...just when I feel "moved" Occasionally I'll empty my spare coins from the glove compartment. Once someone had a sign saying they needed xcents to buy a taco, so I went the nearby drive-thru and picked up two tacos, drove back and gave them to him. Saw someone looking pretty cold once, so I went to a nearby parking lot and pulled a blanket out of the trunk, drove back around and handed it to them at the light. More spontaneous stuff like that.
Someone in our homeschool group has organized an annual event early in Advent wherein the children get together and fill baggies with supplies as requested by a local Catholic homeless shelter. It is a very specific list and the moms buy the items and bring them to the gathering (gloves, shaving supplies, mini sewing kits, etc). The children take a bag and go around to the different stations placing one of each item in. Then they make Christmas cards for the homeless. The shelter operators say that the homeless love receiving these cards...even weep. When we do this activity, the children are no where near the shelter and have no contact with the people, but get to have a meaningful impact by their deeds.
Interesting conversation...
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stacykay
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Isn't this hard? Discerning what to do, when so many variables come into play?
We are in Detroit on a frequent basis, and there are many out, on corners, asking for money. Only once have I given change, when a lady came up to us as we were going through a drive-thru! It is so obvious these individuals are in a bad way, but knowing what their intent is, can be hard to tell. I guess I tend not to give, while in the car. We have seen panhandlers as we have been walking, exiting a sporting event. With a huge crowd around us, I feel more comfortable giving, in that situation.
As for someone who would come to the door...I have to be honest and say I don't know. Here are two polar examples:
Years ago, on a freezing cold Jan. night, my dh (fiance at the time) and I were driving from Ann Arbor to my dr. It was freezing sleet, etc. My car's gas gauge decided then to go on the fritz, and we were stuck on a barren highway with no gas. We walked a mile to a farmhouse, in frozen mud, to ask to use the phone (lonng before cell phones! Am I showing my age?  .) They took the number, while we stood on the porch, and called dh's brother. We then walked back to the car, and soon my bil showed up with gas (btw, I had pneumonia!)
The other instance is more recent. Ds's friend and his family were killed when his grandma opened a door to a "delivery" man, who had a teddy bear and balloons. It was actually a robbery. It was devastating.
Since then, I am very hesitant opening the door. I have placed a "no soliciting" sign in the window.
I guess we just can't know. I would hate to pass by, and not be a "good samaritan." But I would feel terrible if I endangered my family.
I guess in donating to our local soup kitchens and taking our clothes and toiletries to the local homeless shelters can help. There is also a Detroit parish which keeps its heat on and lets the homeless sleep in the church, during the cold winter nights. We have donated money to that. (Father removes the Host from the tabernacle on those nights.)
With Michigan's dire economic picture, we know three families (the smallest has four children,) who are close friends, in financial straits. One of dh's brothers just lost his job. We try to drop things off, when we can, but we're in no position ourselves to do as much as we wish.
Thanks for the thought provoking conversation!
God Bless,
Stacy in MI
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Angie Mc
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Another thought on why not to give in many circumstances is that we are not to be an occasion of sin for others. We should do anything possible to not set people up for failure. Handing anything to a beggar is a temptation for him/her to grab my hand. Openning my door or car window to a stranger is an invitation to abuse me and my space.
Plus, I'm obedient to my dh who works with the severally mentally ill (who rank among the homeless and/or criminal.) I am not to risk my safety or my children's. Period. He reminds me that I am unable (and it is unreasonable to expect me) to discern (especially when caught off guard) if someone is mentally ill, criminal, homeless, or diserving poor/victim of circumstance. It is my job to stay safe and, if necessary/appropriate, delegate helping this person to someone else (police in particular.) What is beneficial about this approach is that, I have a plan. I assume that seasoned street people know the system (they do) so I delegate their help to the systems I suppoprt through charitable donations and taxes. When approached with an "emergency," my pat response is, "I will call the police for you." This takes care of 99.99% of encounters.
We are painfully honest with our children while being mindful of not giving them more information than they want/need. My dh tells our children that all people are worthy of respect because we are all children of God. Some people (think street people) are very hurt so most of what they know is hurt. Because of this they do what they know, they hurt themselves by not taking care of themselves in an extreme way. Because they are so hurt, they need very special care from people like psychologists and agencies like (fill in local agencies) that know how to meet their needs. Some people (think criminals) hurt others in an extreme way. They need special attention from people like the police and court sytem. Some people are in an emergency situation and need help from the police or medical providers. The tricky part is that we can't tell the difference just by looking at people. This is very sad and frustrating but we can pray for the person who needs help and for those who are trained to help them.
One more idea, we talk about our saddness/pity/concern for and/or fear of specific people we encounter. We also confidently tell our children that we ARE helping God's children through our prayer, our financial contributions, and by trusting those specially trained to help. We ARE helping God's children by collecting turkeys at Thanksgivinig, donating clothing to Goodwill, and supporting/organizing charity drives. We ARE helping God's children through dad's work. We ARE helping God's children by living an example of a good, healthy, obedient, God-loving, faith-centered life. Do we need to do more? Let's pray about it...
Thanks for starting this thread, Suzanne. Great ideas shared...thanks everyone.
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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humanaevitae
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Thank you for starting this thread. I've often wondered how others approach this issue. We live very rural and my children just observed homeless people for the first time this last month when we went to the big city.
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LH
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I do/say similar to what Suzanne [two up] posted.
And I remind my son, if you ever need help like that, go to the Catholic Church. If they can't help you, go to another one, and then another one. Sometimes the ladies in the office don't exactly know how to help people.
I don't open the front door to anyone, not even the police. Yes, I have shouted through the closed window with police on two occasions Sure, I may have good intent in opening a door to a [dangerous] stranger, but I have good intent to keeping myself alive to raise my kids and also to keep them from harm also. It can be a good idea to be charitable to those whose care I am am obligated
I don't give money but have handed food through a crack car windo when I knew I had a clean getaway *wink
The ones I always give food and a water bottle to are the kids who are transported from over an hour away and 'dumped off' to sell candies all day, but that's a different topic
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: people asking for money off freeway
