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Rebecca
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| Posted: June 25 2006 at 10:37pm | IP Logged
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Kim F wrote:
CHC is offering some great tools. If they are working GREAT! I am not convinced they necessarily simplify things. They would make me nuts. I would rather have everyone copy from the Sunday readings or our lit bks ala Ruth Beechick. If we can pick a country to study and get library bks and a patron saint to read about to everyone I am all over it. If we can pick a history era or science topic and do the same even better. |
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Simplifying, to me means less planning for Mom, which CHC offers. There is no searching through lit books for copywork (not that there is anything at all wrong with that, just more work for Mom), no holes in the daily routine if something is not planned. I find CHC wonderfully comforting when I am pregnant, living with a newborn or having a difficult time in my life. Although, with my last pregnancy I did not use them. Their books are great to fall back on as a gentle spine. I used their lesson plans one year for Benjamin and he still tells me that was his favorite year in "school".
I would never give up the many eclectic, Montessori or CM habits and routines we have. We will always peg manners to breakfast, poetry and art to lunch and saints/catechism to teatime. We will always read Elizabeth's yearly booklists and use Math U See (not used by CHC) unless they do not work for a certain child. When I used CHC's workbooks for the main subjects, it gave me more time to read aloud with the kids (because I wasn't planning or implementing my plans), to play games with the kids, to take more daytrips, and to nap  because my bases were covered (well academically and very well spiritually) due to CHC's books. I have used their language, spelling and copywork books as well as their lesson plan religion supplements (making prayerbooks, sacrifice beads, etc.) here and there over the years.
I have faithfully used Primary Language Lessons and Intermediate Language Lessons, mainly oral, for the past three years with Ben because they were "CMish". Ben told me this week that he is not interested at all in those "vague yellow books" and could we do the CHC ones instead? We are also switching to their spelling workbook this upcoming schoolyear simply because I cannot do every bit of learning with every single child. CHC allows me to say "Can you work for a bit on your spelling words?" and I know that my child will not need me for a few minutes and will enjoy the work, whereas when I was using Spelling Power, I needed to sit and read the words, then the corrections, then supervise the reinforcements while listening to the grumbling and whining.
So, that is how CHC simplifies things for me. Do I use every CHC book or lesson plan to the letter? No. But I do love the heart behind their products and I feel comfortable setting my children free with their books.
I also have been teaching myself that sometimes I do not have to find the hardest way to do something (aka me planning every iota of every child's education and implementing it myself) that sometimes other people have done a good enough job and I do not have to improve upon it. That is another reason why I don't mind the thought of using a workbook (or 2) every year. To keep me humble.  ]
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Kim F
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| Posted: June 25 2006 at 11:00pm | IP Logged
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Rebecca said
<I also have been teaching myself that sometimes I do not have to find the hardest way to do something (aka me planning every iota of every child's education and implementing it myself)>>
I guess I am not getting it out the way I am thinking it. If you were choosing between planning all those subjects and using a good pre-done program I would do the latter also. I just think there are viable Catholic models that don't require all those things to be covered separately.
I honestly don't have a gripe with CHC and didn't mean for my note to sound like an attack upon them. They just arent a draw to me. Given my children's track record with multiple bks and our budget (which disallows consumables by and large) it wouldn't simplify *our* school day. Montessori phonics and math games and the atriums aren't a draw to others. They are both designed by Catholics however and can legitimately be used to provide a Catholic education. As can lots of other methods.
I would say choose a workable edu-model and live your faith well. Homeschooling will look different in different homes. As Elizabeth said in her email today it really SHOULD look different in different homes or we aren't following the Holy Spirit's guidance for our particular needs and strengths.
Kim
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Willa
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| Posted: June 25 2006 at 11:26pm | IP Logged
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Kim F wrote:
| They have no draw for me anymore. I think most are joyless and rigid. However I DO like his idea of decluttering education. It reminds me of Julia Fogassey's model years back - latin, history/lit/faith/art in incorporated study and then a biology class in high school. Some of us may want to add more here and there but the gist is that latin should theoretically be able to cover most language skills. |
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That's exactly the draw for me, or was -- I don't really feel much of a draw anymore. It just looks too schooly for me at this time. We're exploring other ways of doing things right now. But the idea of simplicity and decluttering the curriculum is a powerful one to me.
It's not just burnout or overload, either, though those are concerns to me. Quite honestly I don't think kids learn as well or thoroughly when there is a whole pile of structured subjects. I should say MY kids since there may be some kids who relish a whole load of structured courses. My experience is not comprehensive but I am finding that our multum non multa home curriculum prepared my oldest quite adequately for his further education, so far.
I think Julia Fogassy's streamlined curriculum makes excellent pedagogical sense and LCC has a similar potential if used temperately. When I look at Highlands and some of the classical schools, however, I'm just not that attracted. That is not why I'm homeschooling my kids. I honestly don't see that that kind of thing is that different from TWTM -- just with more intensive Latin added.
(PS I sent this accidentally too soon and then went back in and edited a couple of things.)
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Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
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ALmom
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I've been following this with some interest - and did some quick looking at the LC posts. Now, I'm not toying with or even tempted by being held to a particular curriculum - any curriculum and I don't think anyone posting here was really saying that either. I also have some of my own reservations about a classical curriculum while being attracted to aspects of it. I do use CHC and Kolbe and a lot of other stuff thrown in - all in my own way. For me it does simplify life because I am much better at modifying (and often very significantly) plans than I am at creating ideas from scratch - and I have very, very limited time and energy. I also do not hold myself to a plan once it is created. I have to have detailed plans - not because we follow them but the process of creating it keeps me from being unrealistic about what we really can attempt in a day. (My biggest tendency is to try and do it all because it all looks so wonderful - but a lot done poorly and with great stress is not learning, so we begin to prioritize for each child). If I'm exhausted by the plan - then I know my dc will be and I tweak some more until it feels right. Then dc tweak it as we go. We don't hesitate to go off plan and follow trails - and I don't feel like we have to finish everything. I do have goals and if something else has achieved the same goal, we drop duplicated efforts. IE if we suddenly did a lot of writing and editing, I probably would drop any grammar workbooks and only do lessons as the need arose, etc. I keep encouraging this and use some of the plans for inspiring and real topic ideas instead of the TBish silliness for essays.
I think there are dangers no matter what you do and a lot depends on the individual parent and children.
If you tend to become a slave to a curriculum just because it is written down, then you probably have to be cautious about too detailed of a plan and any kind of program, workbook, etc. that you might become a slave to. I have a hard time really picturing how much time something might take - and push too hard. Plans help me be realistic and I make sure there is down time for all the fun stuff. Workbooks help me keep tabs on all my 6 - and yes there is the danger that workbooks become mom substitutes but I don't believe that is how we use them. CHC is light, it doesn't waste a lot of time, but it does provide me with discussion points. It is almost like an assessment tool for me. I can see at a glance any areas that dc has more trouble with. It lets me know which concepts I need to spend my limited discussion time with on a particular child. It makes our home schooling simpler and more efficient by helping me in an area of weakness. I have extreme difficulty concentrating on more than one thing at a time - and I have 6 dc many of whom will take the entire year to produce one written work. Perhaps this is why CHC would drive Kim nuts while it is a wonderful tool for me. I know that these workbooks cannot become a substitute for mom's time - but they do help me know which concepts to spend the time I have. It makes our home school simpler and more efficient. I find the same with Kolbe materials - but I cannot let this overwhelm me.
There are things that I like about classical. I despise the memorize and repeat that goes on and on and on beyond when my dc really are ready to tackle more of the reasoning which I have often seen in traditional systems. I love the classical approach in terms of the leading questions to bring a child to understanding and the process that helps parent and teacher learn together too. I think it is much more respectful of the intelligence of the child. I respect a lot of the book selections and in the classical/neo classical plans that I've seen, there is a real reliance on primary sources for history. I'm all for this. I also see a need for Latin - and certainly hope to finally be inspired to place enough emphasis on being consistent and disciplined in this area (which is why we are ordering the DVD and hiring a tutor). I have to be realistic. This is not something that I can really teach and if we wait for me to teach it, it won't happen. I'm not as convinced about the need for Greek unless the child just has a burning interest in this.
I do think sometimes that the emphasis on classical is a reaction to the dumbing down of school but that we can go too far in losing sight of balance and prudence. Why is it that you only use ancient books? There are certainly some Greek plays I'm not interested in my dc reading to any great extent. It's not because I'm so prudish that I don't ever want them to be exposed to the sins of the pagans (which resemble the same sins of today)but I do think that we do need to exercise some prudence. Is it best in the time spent reading for dc of tender ages to be reading mythologies (which are simplified versions of originals by necessity)? Aren't the tender years our best opportunity to awaken that wonder and awe of all that God has done? Beautiful picture books, nature study, great paintings and music, Bible stories, lives of the saints to inspire. I find this a better use of time in the younger years. Just because it is ancient doesn't mean it is the wisest thing for us to have our dc read. We have continued to live, read and write since ancient times and there are many worthy books. There are certainly certain ancient works that are foundational in the understanding of great medieval and modern classics and we should read some of these ancient works to have a certain exposure to the form, etc. However, I am not convinced that it is prudent to take an entire year immersed in ancient Greece. I'm sure that various LC have certain common works considered important. I haven't looked enough to compare booklists - but I want to use some discernment and have time to read some great Catholic authors, some great British authors and some great modern authors. I don't want to ignore salvation history because we are fixated on Greece and Rome, though I certainly do want to read and study in these areas as well. Nor do I want my dc to be ignorant of American history though it is certainly not a classical study. One of the great tenets of classical study is the socratic method, the deep pondering, the question and answer, give and take between teacher and pupil. Certainly I want to examine great thinkers ideas throughout the ages and it is worth making sure that the cultural heritage is not lost. But are we making the same mistake as the Renaissance did - becoming enamored with something simply because it is ancient? I think the Catholic position has always been to take the truth and leave the trash behind. Yes, some of this has already been done for us by wise sages of the past, but shouldn't we also be always utilizing our discernment.
I have seen my dd (14) discern things in books because she looked at it with all the powers of her intellect instead of having preconceived ideas of what the "experts" think. I often miss this. She will come to me and tell me the dictionary has a bad definition of courage and as we discuss it, then I have to agree with her. Perhaps an older dictionary has a better definition back when right and wrong were still recognized and it wasn't politically incorrect to say that there is absolute. I see some of the ancients discussing and bringing up these very relevant discussions. Yes, I want us to tackle this - but I don't think we have to read Lystra to do it.
I've probably rambled on quite a bit - and if I've sidetracked this discussion I'm really sorry and please feel free to move the post. I haven't really read the actual LC programs so it is probably a bit unfair of me to post. I guess I'm at the point of feeling like it is fine for me to use my own discernment and if we don't read everything or do everything recommended by a classicist, I don't think this means we are deficient. If we use workbooks, well, I don't think that is horrible either. If we have given the dc the tools to grapple with ideas and express them and the ability in math and language , then they can dig deeper in their own time.
Janet
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Rebecca
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Kim F wrote:
| It reminds me of Julia Fogassey's model years back - latin, history/lit/faith/art in incorporated study and then a biology class in high school. Some of us may want to add more here and there but the gist is that latin should theoretically be able to cover most language skills. |
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I am not familiar with Julia's model. Does it include math? Latin being the main way of learning language, as well as spelling, grammar, etc. or is that taught to some extent alone?
What are your thoughts on when or whether to teach grammar as a separate subject? What about writing skills? Forgive me, I am trying to understand.
My workbook defense (above)comes from the fact that this past schoolyear, I felt was my worst disciplined year ever, mainly due to pregnancy (baby born early Dec.) and babymoon. Looking back, I did not use any workbooks. I have no tangible way of seeing what we learned because I failed miserably at asking for narrations, encouraging copywork, dictation, etc. All of the things that I usually feel are so helpful in helping my children to learn were not done because we mainly sat around and read story after story together plus math, madlibs, about three weeks of Latin, nature study and called it a year. My oldest is only ten (next month) so I am not afraid that I am "ruining him for life" but I do worry that he is not able to spell well or write (composition not handwriting)well not because he lacks the ability but because his mom does not require it of him because she is too busy with the littles. This is where I feel that the workbooks fill in, when I do not have time to plan, at least something is getting done, rather than nothing.
Willa and Kim, any thoughts/advice on this?
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BrendaPeter
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This thread is certainly making for very interesting reading! So neat to read everyone's perspective.
I've run across several homeschooling moms, here & in the Latin Yahoo group, who are drawn to LCC for similar reasons. Something just so spoke to us. Hopefully I'm able to express that in my own feeble way.
"Multum non multa" was THE draw for many of us. Many of us who have been homeschooling 5+ years are so overwhelmed with the choices out there, both in terms of curriculum & books. Everything looks so good & IS so good. There's CHC, Seton, MODG, Kolbe, Angelicum, FIAR, Catholic Mosaic, the list goes on & on... There have been times that I've sat down to read aloud to my kids & I find myself practically "hyperventilating" because there are too many good books to choose! Obviously not every mom has this problem, but it's been a big one for me. And it gets in the way of of my ability to mother and homeschool my dc. More times than not I've been very scattered with no focus.
Drew's philosophy & his book helped me to rein things in. The quote he borrows from Valerie Bendt, "We should not let the good things crowd out the best things", has become my personal homeschooling mantra. This philosophy has helped me to elimate & pare down. This is how we've simplified. Many of you seem to have enough confidence & experience to do that on your own which is wonderful!
LCC is also a good fit for us because I enjoy latin & find it to be so efficient - i.e. we can cover alot of ground with 1 subject. My dh, dc & I enjoy languages. We pray the rosary in latin. It's a lifestyle. That's what works for us. This is not going to be the case for every family.
I would never attempt to follow the Highlands School curriculum nor will I follow what Drew recommends to a tee. It's the philosophy itself that has been so liberating for me. If it helps any of you like it's helped some of us, that's wonderful! If you've already found a great thing, go for it!
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Brenda (mom to 6)
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: June 26 2006 at 7:33am | IP Logged
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The separate levels of CHC worktexts help me easily have appropriate exercises for each of six children. They acknowledge that a home educator with many children is just as likely to wake up to a crisis as not. They save me from making up copywork pages in five different font size/styles. It's not either/or. We do nature study, picture study (some of it from CHC prints but I need to get prints somewhere), and literature-based religion (using CHC suggestions and lots from here on the board and blogs of people here), in addition to Montessori atrium. There are separate levels in the atrium, but that's wholly appropriate because a twelve-year old certainly brings something to that space that a five-year-old does not. They can all be there together, but I am definitely planning differnt presentations for them. Then, we scrapbook/notebook the atrium stuff. I'm planning to notebook the Catholic Mosaic stuff. Certainly, we'll all enjoy the Mosaic books and we all celebrate the liturgical year.
We might use a CHC history or science spine but we have so many living books for both those things and we've done two huge science units on ants and gardens in the past couple of months. I can't imagine teaching history or science from a text alone. I have one child who is intensely interested in ancient history through the middle ages. For him, the MP lessons seem appropriate, particularly since he'll work on his own. But there will be many Bethlehem books and middle ages saints biographies to supplement. It won't be as clean and simple as the MP pages suggest. It will be richer and, I think, more appropriate.
We did lots of crafts and a rosary notebook in May. None of those things are textbook-y. And all of them were entire-family endeavors. Our nature blog reflects the whole family. From the building of the nesting house to the demise of the baby birds, from the hauling of the dirt, to the careful cataloging of the plants.Everybody was in on it and everybody wrote about it. I don't really see that kind of family centered learning on the Latin-Centered pages I've read. And I believe that learning together as a fmaily and tailoring to an individual child are two of the greatest benefits of home education.
The CHC worktexts might take an hour to complete. That leaves an awful lot of the day open. And they might be entirely unnecessary because we are hitting lots of grammar and writing apart from them. But they don't hurt anything and they can be a help on a day when I'm too sick to lift my head off the pillow as I
explained here..
We already do Latin and Math. If Campbell's point is that you need Latin and Math before everything else, then we're in. If the point is that we need to study only ancient history over and over again with some token US stuff thrown in towards the end of high school, I'm taking my Little House books and Caddie Woodlawn, and Rascal and On to Oregon and the dozens of boooks currently bursting out of our Fourth of July basket and I'm going back to my own "home school." While I appreciate the idea of studying deeply and not widely, I do take exception to sparse reading lists. Reading widely and voraciously saved me from a miserable childhood. I can only imagine how the same reading will enhance the happy childoods of my children. I think sparse reading is tantamount to deprivation. As soon as they can, I give them all a different book and send them to bed to read themselves to sleep. Seems like the lap of luxury to me.
If I tried to apply the Highlands School curriculum here, I would go nuts. There, I'd find a different book for every subject for every child.There'd be no wiggle room to drop everything and learn about bees because Nicky is afraid to go outside on beautiful spring day. No opportunity to take off fly to England for a fortnight after spending three weeks researching and prepping for the trip. By the time they arrived home and recovered from jet lag and we scrapbooked and journalled, we'd be six weeks "behind" in the regimented program, never mind the fat notebook of memorable learning. Frankly, while we'd all get a Latin education, we'd lose a lot of the family culture of "doing."
I also don't think my kids are particularly intellectually gifted. They're smart and they work hard, but they are not the classical scholar type. We can do Latin and Math, but years of translations from Greek and Latin and hours and hours of Greek philosophy would be forcing them into a mold that's not them.
Our family will always head down rabbit trails together. It's what we do. And those will most definitely be the things they readily retain. I see gaps in my eldest child's grammar and math. And they do cause me guilt. And they cause me to stop and wonder if he'd have them if I'd followed TWTM or DYOCC or Kolbe (the big three classical options for homeschooling when I was designing curriculum for him). He might not. He might. But if I'd traded the things we DID do in order to make time for those curriculum outlines as written, I'd have regret. Lots and lots of regret. He'll never be a rocket scientist.He'll never be a Greek philosopher. I'll have to trust God has enough of those. He always know his faith and be able to express and defend it. He's knows the flora and fauna that make up his world. He can do very nicely in a college classroom and he proved that he has the time management and discipline skills to handle that. He can manage his money, though I'd strongly suggest he marry a math brain or hire an accountant  .
I set out on this journey believing that education is about heart and soul and intellect. I think we touched all three.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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cvbmom
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Thank you, thank you for this thread!!! I was up late last night wondering why I couldn't get rid of CHC workbooks and other materials while I try to make the move toward a more "real learning" / CM learning in the house. I think it is because the materials I was looking at did not infuse the faith into every subject, rather they were very good for teaching the subject in its own right. Does that make sense? Anyway, I just printed out this thread to mull over since I don't have much computer time right now. I can't wait to see what you all have said about this.
Thanks again!
Christine
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StephanieA
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| Posted: June 26 2006 at 8:19am | IP Logged
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<We already do Latin and Math.
Dear Elizabeth,
Since my 16 year-old son needs 2 years of language (but not Latin) for college (because his degree will call for 12 hours of a language and Latin is not offered), the whole family will switch and study Spanish next year...at least attempt to have some conversation around the house.
Part of me is glad to give Latin a little break 
How do you fit in Spanish (I think you posted that Michael had a Spanish tutor) and Latin with your children? Do your children take both or switch at one point? How far did Michael go with Latin and how many years has he been studying Spanish?
My idea is for the kids to have a grounding in Latin (ie. Schola Latina or Latina Christiana 1 and 2) then at least one year of Henle's. Anyway, that's as far as my 2 oldest went. Both Stephen and Adam complained that they didn't want another year of a language that they couldn't speak. My siblings are tri- and quad- lingual people. They hang around all nationalities of people and speak to them in their native tongue. It makes for an interesting get-togethers at my parent's house So I am sure this has rubbed off on the boys.
But the more I consider our family dynamics, the more I think that Spanish just might be an overall better choice. I seriously don't know. I don't want to give up the language of the Church, the hymns we sing with Lingua Angelica, the prayer we say in Latin, etc.
But what Adam and Stephen remember from LC 1 and 2 and Henle's I is sadly deficient. In some ways they regret spending an hour+ a day for a year and 1/2 in Henle's I. They both wish they had switched to Spanish earlier. Their stubborn Mom wouldn't let them, because I was convinced Latin was best for them 
Obviously others, like yourself, were more insightful and in-tune with your kid's needs.
Thanks ahead for your thoughts and a sneak-peek into your homeschool.
Blessings,
Stephanie
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StephanieA
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,Fogassey's model years back - latin, history/lit/faith/art in incorporated study and then a biology class in high school. Some of us may want to add more here and there but the gist is that latin should theoretically be able to cover most language skills..
We did ABC's of Christian Culture for 2 years with our 7th, 5, 3, 1st, and toddler (about 5 years ago). We loved every minute of it. It was teacher-intensive, but the kids and I found it worth every bit of my effort. Then the second part of the 2nd year a needy infant entered our lives and ABC's was shelved and as was nearly the rest of that school year I still draw from the program for some excellent assignments, but I have yet to resurrect the entire program, simply because of family dynamics.
ABC's makes you go deep into the subject and retention of the information is excellent. Adam and Stephen still knew SO much about the Patriarchs, Egypt, Rome, and Greece that we didn't cover a whole lot of the people battles, etc. in high school. It was that thorough. We never made it to the Middle Ages, so we concentrated more on that in high school with occasional papers and books on the ancients, Shakespeare's Julius Caesar, The Illiad, etc.
Blessings,
Stephanie
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: June 26 2006 at 9:38am | IP Logged
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Kim F wrote:
CHC is offering some great tools. If they are working GREAT! I am not convinced they necessarily simplify things. They would make me nuts. I would rather have everyone copy from the Sunday readings or our lit bks ala Ruth Beechick. If we can pick a country to study and get library bks and a patron saint to read about to everyone I am all over it. If we can pick a history era or science topic and do the same even better.
To me the suggestions in Real Learning bklist and Karen Andreola's bk make me feel peaceful and confident. Separate levels of bks my kids tend to lose make me feel scattered - Catholic or not. I like to keep them to a minimum and rely on our liturgical year celebrations, daily prayer routine, and reading to infuse the faith.
Kim |
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I wonder if part of this is mom's personality and style of homeschooling?
I use CHC's spellers because I haven't been successful in the past using copywork to improve my kid's spelling and I kept forgetting to get out Spelling Power. I saw a lot of wheels turning in my ds's head with the 6th grade level, which asked much more of the child than simple spelling, and neither of my children who used them complained that it was overwhelming or too hard.
I am going to use CHC's Language of God this year in bits and pieces to reinforce Intermediate Language Lessons, which I prefer but is not Catholic and has more composition assignments than grammar assignments.
I *love love love* Lingua Mater. It feels to me like Catholic Charlotte Mason especially for those who would love to use the Bravewriter lifestyle but are still having a hard time with its freeform methodology.
I love the Charlotte Mason philosophy and method, but I have come to the realization that I am not as creative as many other women who follow it. I love Julie's Bravewriter...heck, I love Julie!  I have emailed her personally so many times about language arts that I am embarrassed to try to count them. I still don't fully *get* how to use her program on a daily/weekly basis.  When I have structure and routines, I am very good at manipulating them to include joyfilled activities. When I start with joyfilled activities and try to infuse routine, I lose my way very quickly, get frustrated and depressed and am tempted throw in the towel on CM altogether.
The other thing that occurrs to me is that the ages of our children may influence what is working for us. I can't just grab a bible and create a lesson that really reaches my 7th grader, my 4th grader and my 1st grader (not to mention my almost 4 yr old who wants to be included in everything). My children are too far apart in age to teach everyone together. I've tried so many times to do it but I always end up losing one or the other on the ends.
Its not that CHC is practically-perfect-in-every-way (like Mary Poppins!). Its a tool that on good days reinforces lessons I've taught in more natural ways. When I am nauseous and exhausted during pregnancy its a tool that will get the job done with a minimum of fuss and tears. The emphasis in their religious material is on devotion and effusive love for the Lord and his saints, not on memorization of the Catechism and who each saint is and why we should know who they are. I never thought I'd buy any workbook that was labeled "My Catholic Speller." Sounds cheesey, right? But its not. Its thoughtful and doesn't feel artificial to me, which is why I find myself sending them a check every Spring for some new purchases.
Anyway, I guess I'm thinking whether its called Latin Centered or CHC centered, really what we are all aiming for is Christ centered. MP has great tools and I'm grateful for them. CHC has great tools, too. Some of us will use the tools to build a birdhouse from scratch. Others will use the tools to decorate a birdhouse that came in a kit with predrilled holes. But in both cases, I think Christ will still be glorified.
__________________
Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and  due 9/10
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BrendaPeter
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| Posted: June 26 2006 at 9:40am | IP Logged
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Elizabeth wrote:
If the point is that we need to study only ancient history over and over again with some token US stuff thrown in towards the end of high school, I'm taking my Little House books and Caddie Woodlawn, and Rascal and On to Oregon and the dozens of boooks currently bursting out of our Fourth of July basket and I'm going back to my own "home school." While I appreciate the idea of studying deeply and not widely, I do take exception to sparse reading lists. Reading widely and voraciously saved me from a miserable childhood. I can only imagine how the same reading will enhance the happy childoods of my children. I think sparse reading is tantamount to deprivation. As soon as they can, I give them all a different book and send them to bed to read themselves to sleep. Seems like the lap of luxury to me. |
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Actually U.S. history is part of modern studies which he suggests you do every year. The thing some people (particularly those who follow TWTM) are having a harder time incorporating is world history since he doesn't technically include that until high school. The sparse reading that's part of the curriculum is definitely there to go "narrow but deep", however, it's also meant to free up time for all those living books, says the owner of 350 (!!) living history books, at last count .
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Blessings,
Brenda (mom to 6)
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Willa
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| Posted: June 26 2006 at 10:59am | IP Logged
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BrendaPeter wrote:
| "Multum non multa" was THE draw for many of us. Many of us who have been homeschooling 5+ years are so overwhelmed with the choices out there, both in terms of curriculum & books. Everything looks so good & IS so good. |
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On the LCC yahoo group a couple years back someone shared the story of the rocks, pebbles and sand... how to fit them in a jar. If you put the sand in first and then the pebbles, there won't be room for the big rocks. So you choose the big rocks and put those in first and the pebbles and sand can fit in the little open spaces in between.
That might illustrate what I was trying to say in my other post. At that time I hadn't read all the other posts, I'd stopped with Kim's because it rang with me.
I would agree with Kim that if something is working, go for it. Leonie quotes the adage "ANything works if the teacher does." The corollary to that, for me is that it's very worthwhile for the teacher, the mom, to look for resources that suit her that won't sit on her shelves making her feel wretchedly guilty.
Elizabeth wrote on her blog that the best way she's found to look for curriculum is to discern what she would like to see in a curriculum, what she needs for her family, and THEN go hunting for the closest thing to that. I thought that made lots of sense.
To me the big rocks are living books and access to nature and real things, and above all a living faith in the family "domestic church". The other things are more like pebbles or sand to me. I look for resources and methods that suit those priorities. But it may be different for others. The point is to figure out what goes first in your view of things. I wish I could convince myself that Latin is a rock but to my inner self it is a pebble and so are formal grammar and spelling. They have been sporadic and fairly minimal in our house.
My oldest son would put Latin in as a rock, I think. Somehow the little we did -- 2/3 through Henle in high school, a few weeks a year of Latin in the earlier grades -- translated into a real love for the language and he is doing excellently in it in college now. He got an A+ in it last semester and more importantly, is extremely interested in it and loves what he is doing. His other best college subject is math which I never taught very well at all -- in high school he worked mostly independently. That has given me the sense that we moms lay the groundwork but we don't have to do it all to have educational success for our kids.
But that part of it is sort of another topic. The part I'm trying to bring out is that I think our minimalist curriculum in his homeschool years were actually a plus. We had "workbooks to fill a gap" years. We had "reading and math and nothing else" years. We actually had some "nothing at all and too many videos" seasons. Didn't hurt, may have actually helped because it gave him time to find things out for himself and forge relationships with things. I don't know that for sure because he's the first one out but my theory is that it's easy to stress out about all we're not doing and not notice what we are doing by providing them a home environment that's friendly to thought and imagination.
If I could buy everything I wanted for the house, it would soon be cluttered. Cluttered with good things, but still too much to really use and be grateful for. I think education CAN get like that. That was what I was trying to say. Too many things, too much to focus on. Periodically it has helped me to refocus, decide what my family is really benefiting from and what is extra. But I would never want to tell another family what is extra for them. We have an IV pole in our bedroom from Aidan's days of being tube-fed. It was indispensable for us for several years but now is usually used to drape my dh's clothes for the next day. For most other families it would be sheer clutter.
I keep trying to write this shorter but it keeps getting long again on me so I guess I'll have to send it anyway -- hope it clarifies what I was saying a bit.
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AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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Willa
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| Posted: June 26 2006 at 11:34am | IP Logged
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Rebecca wrote:
I am not familiar with Julia's model. Does it include math? Latin being the main way of learning language, as well as spelling, grammar, etc. or is that taught to some extent alone?
What are your thoughts on when or whether to teach grammar as a separate subject? What about writing skills? Forgive me, I am trying to understand. |
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I think Julia recommended integrated history/literature/religion with writing included as part of the package. Her ABC's of Christian Culture comprised all these things and also included geography and hands-on projects. Her other curriculum was Sound Beginnings phonics for the early years and I think that would cover the basics of spelling too. Math would be separate, and Latin once the child was literate in English. Science was mostly left to natural sources like nature study, pet and livestock care.
I actually don't do it that way because multi-level teaching, and writing integrated with history, doesn't seem to work for my family. But I like the idea of streamlining and focusing efforts.
We have done formal spelling, grammar and formal composition "for a season". Not all year every year. My kids liked the CHC language workbooks better than the vague yellow CM-y ones, too. I haven't found a really great grammar resource for the older levels so I have used those online Daily Grammar exercises which seem to work pretty well as a survey and review course for older kids.
I have not done much formal writing with the kids. With the first 3 kids I waited until high school -- before that they did minimal copywork, written narration and a few reports using the IEW format. During the high school years I give them some kind of writer's handbook or composition course so they know the basic "types" of composition and get an idea of how to write standard topical essays. I honestly don't want them to have too much of that. Just enough so that they know how to do it, but not enough to ruin their own natural style of writing. In my family, writing fluency comes with adolescence, and before that it is like pulling teeth (for my boys; my girl was scribbling from her earliest days). So I wait till adolescence to do anything very focused in composition.
I'm sorry -- I feel I have almost written a book and could write more and yet I can't get to the heart of it. Hope this answers your questions a little bit, though.
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AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Curriculum Infused with Faith ?
