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jillian
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I always hear the term "head of household" in reference to Christianity but never from a Catholic point of view. Can we have a discussion about head of household from a Catholic perspective.
Also about the submissive wife aspect. If you follow a male head of household and submissive/helpmeet wife home, can you share the aspects of it with me? How do you make it work?
FYI: this is being brought up from a website I stumbled on but I am waiting for a moderator response about posting it (want to make sure I don't cross any boundaries in posting it). It is also controversial and not only referring to head of household, but one side of the spectrum.
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CrunchyMom
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Jillian,
You are right that this can be a controversial topic, though, I sometimes think that the controversy lies more in semantics rather than practice.
However, I thought I would share what a friend told me about how her priest approached it in their marriage counseling. It has helped me understand it and apply it (though, I think that it can appear differently among many faithful Catholics). This is my own summary, and keep in mind it is a summary, so I'm not really trying to get into the nitty gritty or subtleties involved.
In general, men are stronger physically than women. The image of a battered and abused mother or child is a pretty clear one in our minds of a man who has abused his superior strength.
On the other side of the coin, women are typically stronger than men are emotionally. The parallel to the battered woman image, especially if you look at old stories and literature, is the severely hen-pecked husband.
A husband and father has traditionally born the brunt of physically taking care of, providing for, and protecting the family. A wife and mother's role has traditionally been that of more emotional support. Of course, both do both! But this is generally where strengths lie.
So, as a husband, men are called to sacrifice of themselves to provide for and protect others. It is the sacrifice of freedom, independence, and perhaps even security that enables them to do this.
Likewise, with a superior emotional strength, it is a big sacrifice to submit to the will of another. In submitting to my husband, it has nothing to do with my LACK of ability and everything to do with my SUPERIOR ability in why that is "the thing" I'm called to give up. I can't speak for others and their relationships, but I'm pretty sure I would win every. single. argument. if I tried. I would always get my way.
So, FOR ME, submitting to each other in the way scripture describes is about sacrificing the parts of ourselves that would otherwise dominate over the other person or abandon the other person. Love by definition is sacrificial, and in describing a holy marriage, scripture outlines the dominate sacrifices each will be called to make in order to demonstrate that love.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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guitarnan
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I also think it's incredibly freeing to have one person have final decision-making authority. There's no way for anyone in the family to play one parent off against the other. Boundaries are enforced, leading to increased respect among family members.
As a wife who often has to be a temporary single parent (we are military), I know how hard it is to have to make those final decisions. I'm grateful that, thanks to modern communications, I don't have to make those choices often. Dh and I can confer.
Please remember that "submitting" doesn't mean you have to be mute! I think the Church has been very clear on this point, particularly when it comes to educating our children. "Parents" have the authority, not "mom" or "dad" - that implies that we should exercise it together, don't you think?
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Erin
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CrunchyMom wrote:
| So, FOR ME, submitting to each other in the way scripture describes is about sacrificing the parts of ourselves that would otherwise dominate over the other person or abandon the other person. Love by definition is sacrificial, and in describing a holy marriage, scripture outlines the dominate sacrifices each will be called to make in order to demonstrate that love. |
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Lindsay
What an incredibly beautiful way to explain it 
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Erin
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Angie Mc
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Jillian, I'll start by quoting Catholic apologist Jimmy Akin:
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| This is a sensitive subject, and I hesitate to comment on it without having the space to explore the subject thoroughly and make sure that what I am and am not saying is clear. Nevertheless, I'll try to answer as best I can. |
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I, too, answer with hesitation, from my personal perspective based on Catholic teaching and experience to the best of my ability because this is an interesting topic to me...one that I've puzzled over - and still puzzle over - for years. I enjoy the puzzlement  .
As a wife (and a very flawed wife at that), my goal is to cooperate with God's natural law to the greatest extent possible in order to please Him and to open avenues of grace for myself, dh, our marriage, our family, the Body of Christ, and our community at large.
In Akin's blog post Spiritual Headship, I find his careful explanation of the connection of headship and natural law to be true to my experience. Natural law, or I sometimes think of it as "the rule", stands as true. As a young woman I had many conflicting emotions, thoughts, experiences, examples, and directives in matters related to what it means to be a man, a woman, a married couple, etc. This is all understandable considering that I was born in 1963  . Yet God's law, His rule, doesn't change.
I see two ways of temptation and error as a woman. I can abdicate my responsibilies, not live and speak truthfully, and dismiss my real needs in the name of submission. I've played the victim. Or I can be very directive, convincing myself and others that only I can do such&such based on my strengths and talents. I've played the bully more  . I've come to think that these tendencies or stereotypes are really a false dichotomy, the flip side of the same coin.
What I'm searching for is a different coin, a different way to be responsible in God's eyes. I believe that coin is God's natural law as understood through the teachings of the Catholic Church. She helps me to live with paradox and mystery while encouraging me to live rightfully in objective ways.
Here's a small example. When I married, I learned that my dh didn't keep a checkbook. I about had a heart attack! I kept mine to the penny. So, I took over all things money. It made sense at the time . What I didn't see at the time was the great damage my misdirected "financial aptitude and interest" would cost our family. It took away from my dh's greater need and responsibility to lead. It took many, many years for me to gradually let go of our family finances work and for him to learn how to do our finances. But truthfully, I quickly learned that my dh did just fine...OK, different but better than me . Sub example, he quickly delegated our taxes (which I had done every year) to a tax specialist who paid for himself by getting us a larger return than I would have and even found errors from my previous tax returns that cost us  .
So now I stick to what is rightfully responsible for me at this time as a wife who wants to honor my dh as the head of our household. I do my very best to be a good steward of the money my dh provides. I offer my truthful feelings and thoughts on major purchases and investments while supporting him to make final decisions. I try not to sweat the small stuff. I stand in for him only when he is unavailable to make or execute financial decisions.
I know that God gave us an abundance of grace to adjust our roles and our souls via our finances, over time, because we chose to respect dh's need, right, and responsibility to lead. It was really hard at first. Really hard. But I cannot deny that the more closely we try to align ourselves with the natural law and examples of responsible traditional roles, the less stressed and more joyful we become. This is work of a lifetime.
I feel compelled to mention that within our marriage we have spaces that we "work around" because of what Akin refers to as "atypical situations" - exceptions to the rule. I find consolation in my belief that the vast majority of marriages are faced with very serious weaknesses, limits, and sufferings because of God's perfect will and love. We're not alone and all is for the salvation of souls and glory of God! These crosses can be heavy and large - not subject to quick fixes (which I pray this quick post doesn't mislead.) Yet, I find great hope in learning how to live as closely and contentedly as possible in accordance with God's natural law with guidance from our Church.
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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JodieLyn
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Good answers.. I like what Leslie said about the different roles.. different roles but equal dignity.
One thing I do like to bring to these conversations is that the jobs one does in the family are not necessarily dependant on roles. There is nothing wrong with a dh that likes to cook making dinner or a wife that enjoys being outside doing yard work.
Even something like finances, as Angie pointed out, can be a matter of trust or simply another job that can be delegated. So in one family the dh needs to be the one doing the finances and in another it may be that the dh prefers to delegate that to the wife. Either way can work.
The big thing for me to remember is that when one person is given a responsibility that they should also have the authority to deal with that responsibility.
If you've ever been in the position of being given a responsibility without the authority you'd recognize how "unfair" and difficult it is.
I remember a time (as a teen) when my parents tried giving me the responsibility to make sure the house was cleaned up before they got home, including my sister's chores.. but I had no authority to get her to do her part of the work.. so I was stuck either doing all her work if she refused or getting in trouble with my parents.. it was quickly recognized as not working.
So if my dh has the ultimate responsibility for our family, then it's only right and just that he also have the ultimate authority. But within that there are other perameters.. the instruction for the man to love his wife as Christ loved the Church. For the husband and wife to submit to each other.
The actual jobs.. gender roles relating to jobs.. in the family are more flexible.
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All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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jillian
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Thanks for all the discussion so far :)
We are in a unique (well not really unique but for the rest of the people I can go to) since we are a military family. I try to let dh make important decisions after lots of serious discussion (like with our move right now or financial matters) and stick to them. We share a lot of the household responsibilities when he is home but I definitely feel like it is part of my job description to make things smoother for him when he gets home since he works outside of the home. I try to get the house picked up, dishes washed and put away, laundry folded, beds made, etc before he gets home because it respects him and his wishes.
I think for us the hardest part is re-delegating tasks from when he's gone to when he's home. When he's gone he is GONE (very little communication and delayed at that so I can't get answers to important questions immediately) but when he's home he's home. It takes sometimes more finesse than I want to deal with most days but I feel it is important to let him take his place as HOH.
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Angie Mc
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CrunchyMom wrote:
| I sometimes think that the controversy lies more in semantics rather than practice. |
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I have definitely experienced confusion over phraseology. And I think it is very interesting to talk about something so substantial and near to our hearts among women who share so much in practice! I think there is also room for plain and respectful disagreement.
JodieLyn wrote:
Even something like finances, as Angie pointed out, can be a matter of trust or simply another job that can be delegated. So in one family the dh needs to be the one doing the finances and in another it may be that the dh prefers to delegate that to the wife. Either way can work.
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I've come to think differently about how roles and jobs are interconnected. When I was younger, I believed that there was no interconnection between jobs and roles. I was pragmatic and believed that the person with the most interest, ability, time, or inclination toward a job was to do the job. I no longer believe this. You could say that I now disagree with my younger self, with all due empathy .
I believe that there are mysterious and deep reasons for why jobs are traditionally reserved for husband/father or wife/mother. The very first time this possibility dawned on me was when I gave birth to my first child. After originally planning to share feeding responsibilities with my dh, I chose to exclusively breastfeed her. Natural law points to breastfeeding. Other feeding arrangements are based on exceptions to the rule or atypical situations. We were not in an exceptional or atypical situation.
To expand on my finance example, traditionally, men have taken care of the family finances, from earning income to bookkeeping to spending decisions to tax reporting and everything in between. Men would do this for themselves until they had wealth and/or opportunity to delegate some of the sub tasks to someone outside of the family, such as a servant or, today, a bookkeeper, accountant, financial advisor, or tax consultant. Other arrangements, such as delegating these responsibilities to a wife, were based on exceptions to the rule or atypical situations. Our family isn't an exception or in an atypical situation although there have been a few times when we were, like when dh was deployed and had very limited contact.
I now lean heavily toward using exceptions carefully and out of serious need based on an atypical situation. In our case, I took on too many traditionally head of household jobs early in our marriage (we were doing the 50/50 thing  ,) for reasons that weren't compelling, then they hit a critical mass. As I alluded to in my last paragraph, both my dh and I continue to carry jobs that ideally would be taken up by the other. They are growing fewer and our goal is to make them as few as possible over time, without causing undue worry or stress. If we are unable to make any further changes, we can absorb what we have and be very content!
I hope I'm not straying from the topic too far but...one of the main reasons I love hanging with this gathering of ladies is that over the years you have helped me to grow in a womanly way that is smart, confident, joyful, feminine and pretty  . You all help to soften my rough edges which helps me to see my jobs and my role as wife and mother in a beautiful light!
Love,
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Angie Mc
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Angie Mc
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Jillian, we were cross-posting.
I look forward to pondering your second post and do see that you have the challenge of being in a typical situation when your dh is home and an atypical situation when he is gone.
God bless you and your dh for your service  .
Love,
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Angie Mc
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JodieLyn
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Ah I see what you're saying, Angie, on the exceptional or atypical.. in comparison with the traditional.. but not necessarily out of the norm these days.
I do finances because it's exceptionally difficult with an inconsistent work schedule for dh to do it and get things paid on time or the like.. and also exceptionally difficult for me to be able to pick up where he's left off without any warning.
And it's very difficult for military families especially but also at times some of the rest of us with traveling dhs and the whole power struggle of going from being in charge to being second in command.. and back again.. over and over and over. 
Perhaps a list or two of what your DH does when he's home and another list of who does those jobs when he's not home. That way everyone can get that bit of help with remembering.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
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Angie Mc
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JodieLyn wrote:
| Ah I see what you're saying, Angie, on the exceptional or atypical.. in comparison with the traditional.. but not necessarily out of the norm these days. |
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Exactly, and thank you for clarifying, Jodie. I praise God that He has made individuals and families to be flexible and resilient...to be able to absorb exceptional and atypical situations. I'm grateful for our Church, who through Divine Mercy, does not place unnecessary burdens on us.
Love,
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Angie Mc
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Angie Mc
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Jillian, I know that you are looking for personal experiences and practical helps, which I'm sure others will share. I also want to share these words of encouragement from CASTI CONNUBII :
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24. This mutual molding of husband and wife, this determined effort to perfect each other, can in a very real sense, as the Roman Catechism teaches, be said to be the chief reason and purpose of matrimony, provided matrimony be looked at not in the restricted sense as instituted for the proper conception and education of the child, but more widely as the blending of life as a whole and the mutual interchange and sharing thereof.
25. By this same love it is necessary that all the other rights and duties of the marriage state be regulated as the words of the Apostle: "Let the husband render the debt to the wife, and the wife also in like manner to the husband,"[28] express not only a law of justice but of charity.
26. Domestic society being confirmed, therefore, by this bond of love, there should flourish in it that "order of love," as St. Augustine calls it. This order includes both the primacy of the husband with regard to the wife and children, the ready subjection of the wife and her willing obedience, which the Apostle commends in these words: "Let women be subject to their husbands as to the Lord, because the husband is the head of the wife, and Christ is the head of the Church."[29]
27. This subjection, however, does not deny or take away the liberty which fully belongs to the woman both in view of her dignity as a human person, and in view of her most noble office as wife and mother and companion; nor does it bid her obey her husband's every request if not in harmony with right reason or with the dignity due to wife; nor, in fine, does it imply that the wife should be put on a level with those persons who in law are called minors, to whom it is customary to allow free exercise of their rights on account of their lack of mature judgment, or of their ignorance of human affairs. But it forbids that exaggerated liberty which cares not for the good of the family; it forbids that in this body which is the family, the heart be separated from the head to the great detriment of the whole body and the proximate danger of ruin. For if the man is the head, the woman is the heart, and as he occupies the chief place in ruling, so she may and ought to claim for herself the chief place in love.
28. Again, this subjection of wife to husband in its degree and manner may vary according to the different conditions of persons, place and time. In fact, if the husband neglect his duty, it falls to the wife to take his place in directing the family. But the structure of the family and its fundamental law, established and confirmed by God, must always and everywhere be maintained intact . |
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Love,
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Angie Mc
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guitarnan
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Jillian, one thing I do with my dh before he deploys or leaves on TDY is sit down with him and talk through some "what if" situations, so I know what he would advise me to do if he were home. (This could be anything - should I buy snow tires, where do I take the car to be fixed if it breaks down, what do I do if ds is struggling with a college class, what would you like me to do if someone in our extended family becomes ill...all kinds of stuff.)
It's not the same as having him home, of course, but it does help to know what he would advise...
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Erin
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Jillian
One day after a discussion with a Protestant friend sharing how this worked in her household, I shared with dh I wasn't totally comfortable and had longed to express how it worked in our Catholic household, how we interpreted Scripture etc.
He summed it up nicely for me in an analogy (he loves analogies ). He is like the CEO of a company, this means the buck stops with him, however his role allows him to delegate. He doesn't wished to be bothered with minor details such as what colour shoes to buy dc. On a personal, practical level we do discuss many things. We both are good at communicating. Looking back over 18 years of marriage the times when he has made more 'headship decisions' have been Faith related, ie. Whether to change parishes etc. It has been so freeing at times when I have lacked clarity to rely on these Graces, he has just seen so clearly.
We do tend to operate in more traditional roles within our marriage, it does makes sense for an accountant to do family finances both of us have strengths naturally in the more traditional roles and unlike your situation Jillian and Jodie, dh works 8-6 so is home regularly.
Angie, I'm very intrigued in your journey, wow! I can only imagine the personal growth and maturity that path has taken. I'm also intrigued with the finance aspect I have friends whose strength is in this area and they not their dh take care of this, I'm pondering your words deeply.
Jillian
Thinking about your own situation, perhaps it is more the heart you are thinking about rather than the logistics? Or are the two entwined?
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Erin
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JennGM
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I'm enjoying reading this thread so much; thank you for asking the question, Jillian. It's always nice to review and study deeper these questions.
Angie, I love that Casti Connubi quote. That is just perfect and summarizes perfecctly the differences between the Catholic and Protestant approach.
Erin, I like the analogy. 
For further reading, all the books by Dietrich and Alice von Hildebrand on Marriage and Man and Woman are quite beautiful and insightful. I was particularly moved years ago by "Man and Woman" which explains the partnership. It's been a while, but I think it mentioned that as a couple we stand side by side looking out. He also emphasized the Man being the head and the Woman being the heart.
I also dwell on the passages of Ephesians 5. Taken out of context, "Wives, be subject to your husbands, as to the Lord" sounds like we have to be dominated. But reading the whole passage is quite eye-opening.
Quote:
| 21 Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ. 22* Wives, be subject to your husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. 24 As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands. 25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. 28 Even so husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no man ever hates his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, as Christ does the church, 30 because we are members of his body. 31* "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." 32 This mystery is a profound one, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church; 33 however, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband. |
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The directives towards the husband are even greater (and harder, I think) than to the woman. Love like Christ -- which means sacrificially even to death! And he must love her like he loves himself.
If he kept all those teachings in mind all the time, a truly loving, sacrificial husband wouldn't, COULDN'T be domineering or use his wife as a "subject", given in to his whims or only his needs.
Also the passage gives the relationship of Christ with His Church. The Church is His bride. I was thinking yesterday of how we have Christ's authority, but yet the Church (the bride) looks like it runs a bit autonomously since Christ isn't present physically on earth. We follow His guidelines as presented through Faith and Tradition, and listen to the Holy Spirit as He moves and guides us.
I'm not really spelling this out well. What I'm trying to say is that's it's not a simple black and white -- husband is the head, wife is subject to him. This is a very profound and deep, with multiple layers, just like St. Paul says "This mystery is a profound one..."
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Jennifer G. Miller
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jillian
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Thanks everyone, definitely a good way to wake up to give me lots of things to think about and pray on today. I have learned sadly through experience that dh just can't handle some things. Though experience I learned that he doesn't have the mind for bill paying. That's fine, he lets me handle the bills but we still discuss when and where the money is going and how to save money in places, etc.
I am recently exploring a new idea but I am not comfortable discussing it yet.
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LLMom
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I haven't read all of the replies, and I don't have time to post a long "Catholic" perspective, but I did want to mention to be careful of reading protestant info on this topic. Many of them go way over the top and believe in a philosophy called Patriarchy that is very harmful, taking submission to an extreme.
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Erin
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JennGM wrote:
I also dwell on the passages of Ephesians 5. Taken out of context, "Wives, be subject to your husbands, as to the Lord" sounds like we have to be dominated. But reading the whole passage is quite eye-opening.
Quote:
| 21 Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ. 22* Wives, be subject to your husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. 24 As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands. 25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. 28 Even so husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no man ever hates his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, as Christ does the church, 30 because we are members of his body. 31* "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." 32 This mystery is a profound one, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church; 33 however, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband. |
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The directives towards the husband are even greater (and harder, I think) than to the woman. Love like Christ -- which means sacrificially even to death! And he must love her like he loves himself.
If he kept all those teachings in mind all the time, a truly loving, sacrificial husband wouldn't, COULDN'T be domineering or use his wife as a "subject", given in to his whims or only his needs. |
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Jenn
I always get goosebumps when I read this passage as that is precisely what Christ is saying. Men are told to have a TOTALLY sacrificial love to their wives. "Husbands love your wives as Christ loves the Church" oh wow!!
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Erin
Faith Filled Days
Seven Little Australians
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hylabrook1
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I share your awe at the Ephesians passage, Erin. It makes me sad when people shy away from using this at their wedding Mass because they think it's s*xist. So sad that the depth of meaning is glossed over!
Peace,
Nancy
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Erin
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Actually Nancy, dh and I had it at our wedding
There were certainly some raised eyebrows, I think unfortunately many home in and focus on verse 22 and don't look at the passage in entirety.
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Erin
Faith Filled Days
Seven Little Australians
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Head of Household--Catholic perspective
