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Angel
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| Posted: May 19 2010 at 3:42pm | IP Logged
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Thanks, Janet!  Lots of food for thought there. (I hope I wasn't hijacking the thread.)
I've been thinking about this thread since it first appeared, but I wasn't sure if I was the sort of person to respond to it.  I have a sort of double personality when it comes to planning/learning with the kids.
On the one hand, I am a sort of a natural unschooler. It's how I learn. I get very interested in a subject and I'm off. Give me a reading list that I'm supposed to work my way through and... ugh. All my enthusiasm goes away. If you don't tell me all the books are required or that I should read them in a certain order, then I'm your girl!
But I have a big family full of children with many different personalities, talents, and areas in which they struggle. There are only so many hours in the day. And there are subjects that no one in this family would touch with a ten foot pole if I left it up to them. (Math, for example.) I also happen to be absent-minded, disorganized, and full of big ideas that never come to fruition because I can't figure out how to make them work. These traits are apparently heritable because I have given birth to a number of children whose executive functioning mirrors mine. It's hard enough to keep up with my own forgetfulness and disorganization, let alone trying to manage the kids.
So... we have to meet in the middle, and I don't feel guilty about it. I use textbooks for certain subjects, which makes it easy to "do the next thing" and also for my older kids to work independently. We have a certain set of required work that we go through every day. For my 7 yo, I know that we need to sit down and do some phonics, some math, and some handwriting every day. I also know that he'll sit in at family catechism time on a daily basis, and that he'll at least be read to at bedtime. I provide audio books for him to fill in the gaps. With math for the younger ones, I use a combination workbook/Montessori approach. I make lists of the Montessori he seems to be ready for, and I work down the list. When life gets too demanding, I switch to a workbook. We go back and forth like that through the year. In 4th grade, I switch my kids to a math program (like Saxon). I don't play a lot of games with them. It sounds so nice to me, but... it's often way too hard with all the little ones running around. So I try not to feel guilty about that either. I'm doing what I can with what I've got.
A few years ago I also started deciding on which history we would do for the year -- ancient, medieval, etc. -- and breaking it up into geographical or topic areas so the kids could choose what topics within the general category they were interested in and we could be spontaneous in that sense... I say, "We're studying medieval history this year," and they say, "What about Ireland?" and I know where to go for a booklist. I read aloud every day (or almost every day) because it's in the schedule at a time I've figured out that I can remember it best -- usually first thing in the morning.
If it's scheduled enough that it becomes a habit, then I don't have to write it down and I don't have to deal with losing any plans I've made. That's one way I cope. Different times of the day and different subjects are left open to relatively free exploration.
Or, at least they have been. I notice that many of the posters in this thread have young kids. I'm sort of in the middle between y'all and Janet. The problems I'm facing now are somewhat the same, except that instead of my direct involvement every day my older kids need my *indirect* involvement. My oldest is 13 and needs a sort of weird combination of structure and freedom. Finding the balance can be really difficult -- which is why I appreciate your experience, Janet! Finishing what we start -- taking a project deeper than just a few days -- is a major challenge for me and my older kids. We need to plan things out. Planning is hard for us. The plan can't be too tight or we'll toss it and feel as if we're suffocating. But it can't be too loose, or nothing will get done.
I do think there's a happy medium to be achieved somewhere. Just because you're making plans doesn't mean you're not following an interest, as Janet said. With my little ones, I pay attention to what they're playing, what they talk about, what they draw. Then I try to extend those interests by offering books, activities, etc. Sometimes -- when life gets tough -- I fall down. An organized list would help at those times. (I'm working on it.) For my older kids, though, who really want to be able to work on their own and to know what "counts" as school during school time, I have to be a little more organized. I can still capitalize on their interests by paying attention to what they're reading and what they're saying and asking me for... but I do wonder sometimes if I'm overworking myself when I try to put things in writing OR... if it's a much-needed fallback position.
I try to keep in mind that this homeschooling thing is all just a grand adventure. If I see it as a big experiment, with no right or wrong way to do things... then it's like this Babe Ruth quote I saw on a drive-thru car wash sign (of all places):
"Every strike just gets me one hit closer to a home run."
__________________
Angela
Mom to 9, 7 boys and 2 girls
Three Plus Two
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ekbell
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| Posted: May 19 2010 at 6:00pm | IP Logged
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ALmom wrote:
Angela:
Angela, I have one child like you describe - a very gifted, nontraditional learner. It has been a real struggle for both of us to find the right balance and now that we're at graduation, I'm not sure we totally did. Sometimes, I just require something - and had the detailed plans because without that, well this phlegmatic sanguine, interested in everything just wouldn't stick with anything. She had a pattern of doing a lot of work and perusing, but never finishing anything. We discussed, prayed and all of us decided that requiring completion of some things was essential. The plans were partially on her request. She hates school but loves to learn. She just wanted to know what had to be done to be done, did it and went off to do her own things. She liked this better even though it would have been much more efficient to come up with a way to document and count all her learning.
If this child would have shown me half of what was being done on her down time or been willing for me to document stuff, honestly, I would have been more relaxed. Even if she'd spent a few minutes summarizing what she did, I'd have counted a ton of stuff. However, that ruined it for her. She wanted me to leave her non-assigned stuff alone. I respected that. This child has sketches, plays she wrote and a bunch of other stuff in her drawer. She is constantly reading something. She taught herself a bunch of stuff medical - first aid, etc. but kept it totally hidden from anyone. (Now a few of the things I eventually found out about, I keep in mind when awarding credit - but have no idea the hours spent so ...  She wanted the pressure of getting credit over and done with, so she just wanted me to tell her what she needed for graduation, she would do it and be done and then go about her own stuff. She took a co-op science class in an area of interest. It was a more traditional presentation (lecture, answer questions, boring) but she just wanted to do it and know she would have credit at the end. I doubt she learned a whole lot really - she just wanted the credit so she could be free to go back to the subject her own way without any pressure. She had me order a different text that she is going to read/use on her own to learn Anatomy her own way. I doubt she will read the text start to finish, but I know she will eventually learn the material as long as she is pursuing EMT firefighter. This seems so ridiculous to me -not the learning on your own, but the unwillingness to let me simply record what she had done so there wouldn't be so much wasted time. I didn't know what else to do after trying to explain that life and school could be simply recording what she does anyways. If you have any clues on how to discreetly figure out what they are doing so you can record it on the sly, I'd love to know just in case I have another child like her. My personality is more like a bulldozer and the only way I could figure out was to ask and if I asked it was pressure and ..... I simply respected her wishes. Her transcript will look much lighter than reality - but that is her choice.
She started to teach herself French, but quit when I started trying to record what was accomplished. We both decided just to get a teacher and do a traditional Latin for credit. This summer she has already pulled out Spanish, French and something else. At one point she had checked out a bunch of Arabic books - probably when she wanted to be a combat medic. How far she got in this, I have no idea. She'll be graduated - so suddenly she feels free. No matter how much I tried to let her follow trails and leave her alone and not place requirements from me on her, it just didn't work because when I had to put something down for the state, she just dropped things. I'm not terribly worried - other than that she is the same about finding her calling. She tries something, gets good at it, gets bored or doesn't find it fulfilling by itself, decides she will continue to do this "just for fun" and is off on another interest.
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This reminds me of when I was asked to make a list of the books I read over a week's time and I decided that books I read at home 'wouldn't count' nor did really challenging books.
It was a mix of not wanting to stand out, a certain degree of uncertainty if I would have been believed (it's amazing how many books you can read in a week if you read every possible minute) and a very strong feeling that outsiders shouldn't be told more than need be about anything.
I don't think anything would have succeeded in changing my mind, not then. Even now I take the homeschool options that require the least reporting in the province where I live, simply because I can't bring myself to give more information than I must.
About the only reason I will willingly give out information is when I'm giving examples in an attempt to provide help or an explanation. Even then it helps a good deal to be somewhat anonymous.
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ALmom
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| Posted: May 19 2010 at 10:31pm | IP Logged
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Angel, sounds like you might have helped me understand my own dd. She is just like that - put a book on a list, she hates it and struggles through it. But don't have a list and try to just be the spy that goes around recording what she reads, and well, I never can tell - sometimes she flips through books just for the action part, sometimes she reads them in their entirety and sometimes, well she just reads the end. If I walk by and see her reading the end of a book, I cannot very well record it as read - it might have been, but it might be that she only read the last paragraph to see if she wanted to bother . If I ask for a booklist - nothing goes on it.
Ekbell, I think you are on to something - this child is very reserved. But I also think that somehow making it into a "chore" by having any reporting associated with it, makes it not fun and therefore not motivating.
Another problem I have and a reason I have to plan is the very different learning styles. I have to really work my brain around how to help/set up things for the children. They are hands on visual learners and need me to be BRIEF and use very few words. Yikes -this is a huge challenge for me   I'm a wordy person and learn with lots of words and details. If I didn't do my planning in the summer - read a lot of books, start getting my ideas, I wouldn't be able to figure out where I wanted to go without reading all the material, etc. I learn by getting the detail and lining it up like little duckies in a row. I have to be very sequential and systematic about it. This absolutely drives my big picture learners (all of my children except maybe the youngest who is not yet recording age) insane and I would lose them. I have to give them an overview so I have to tackle the details before I work with them.
I am really reflecting on ways to streamline my own need for detail - and I have learned to let go some because there are times I'm still trying to sort through material and the year is upon us and -- well we just have to plunge in. My children do better though if things are already summarized and written down!
Oh, and my littles, I do tend to do more of a checklist coupled with some bought plans (memory gems,etc.) that are already there. Since I am working with them side by side, I do use checklists more for the under 9 crowd. My plans are for the 10 year olds and up - 10 are transition so some depends on the particular child. My phlegmatics are harder because they need a little "pushing" to give me their own ideas and not just go along with whatever I had in mind while hating it. I have to be real in tune to some signs of stress in these folks. Anyone who has some choleric tendencies will plain tell me - so will some of my sanguines, but they do it in such a nice way. My melancholic choleric is a picture learner but otherwise seems easiest for me - probably because he is so organized. What age plans are you looking to see. My highschoolers are most detailed. My 13 year old is the one with the most scratches and changes because he is so inquisitive and doing. He is also the one I would never give more than 1 days plans to or they'd be lost in the sea of projects. I tuck my papers into a sleeve on the outside of my notebook, he takes one day out, and at least once a week, we go over these (I try to do it daily, but with 6 we don't always get to everything). Once he is done, I put my 3 ring paper (which is what the plans are scrawled on) into the binder and it becomes my attendance proof and easy to go through the dates and record numbers on my attendance record required by the atate. This then only takes a few seconds and saves me untold stress at record check time.
Janet
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Regimented "Natural Learning"
