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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: March 26 2010 at 8:49pm | IP Logged
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I have been a member here for 5 years. I wanted to explain my personal reason for leaving this community, not engage moderation in yet another debate. I chose a public format rather than pm'ing moderators because it doesn't seem right to me to disappear without an explanation, and it would be dishonest of me to lead people to think it was related to something other than what it is.
In deference to Elizabeth I have no intention of engaging anyone over this
decision.
I do thank you for restoring my post since it will be the only public explanation for my absence.
__________________
Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and  due 9/10
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Martha
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| Posted: March 26 2010 at 8:51pm | IP Logged
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I don't think Laura was attributing anything.
No matter how cautiously written your letter may be, this is absolutely the logical conclusion of it, however much denied or honestly not intended - there really is not another logical conclusion.
I can't imagine how this will make the board easier to moderate. Where will the line be drawn and how far will you go to draw it?
If Elizabeth wasn't honest enough to use the a actual term of w-, would that be okay even though it would still be just as influenced by her background? Will you now research and all links, references, blogs and so much more to be sure there are no such references? Because a LOT of CM and Montessori places mesh with it to various degrees whether they openly advertise it or not.
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Martha
mama to 7 boys & 4 girls
Yes, they're all ours!
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Natalia
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| Posted: March 26 2010 at 9:17pm | IP Logged
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I am going to honor Elizabeth's request and stop talking about this. It doesn't do any good anyhow,your minds are made up and nothing is going to change the decision y'all have made. I am saddened that this has happened.
For the record, I want to stay this:
1.I am not angry.
2. I do assume the best of you all.
3. I agree with your position of not discussing Waldorf,Steiner,etc
4. I disagree that Serendipity equals W.
5. I think there is no valid reason to set Serendipity outside of the boundaries you have set.
I wonder if the silence of the majority of the members means a) they agree with you guys, b)they are away from the boards because of Lent, c)they are mostly new members here these days and they don't understand what is going on.
I do really appreciate all you do and I know it must have been a very hard decision to make. I am sorry I can't agree.
Love to you all,
__________________
Natalia
http://pannuestrodecadadia.blogspot.com
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mary
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| Posted: March 26 2010 at 9:37pm | IP Logged
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Natalia wrote:
I wonder if the silence of the majority of the members means a) they agree with you guys, b)they are away from the boards because of Lent, c)they are mostly new members here these days and they don't understand what is going on.
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or maybe d) they feel that moderator minds are already made up and that there is no point in saying that they disagree. i suppose you will know when you see who remains to post at 4RL.
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Maddie
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| Posted: March 26 2010 at 9:38pm | IP Logged
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Natalia wrote:
I wonder if the silence of the majority of the members means a) they agree with you guys, b)they are away from the boards because of Lent, c)they are mostly new members here these days and they don't understand what is going on.
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Maybe I don't understand you correctly, but is it really necessary for each member to publicly take a stand? Haven't we all been hurt enough? Do I have to weep every time another member publicly leaves? Dear members I've prayed through sickness, pregnancies, family tradgedies, rejoiced with them when Our Lord blessed them with new life? I am just so sad to see members go after 5 years, that's a long time to be friends, and now it's just over. 
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~Maddie~
Wife to my dh and Momma of 9 dear ones
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Martha
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| Posted: March 26 2010 at 9:53pm | IP Logged
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Maddie -
I agree that is sad. Very much so. After 5 years I don't feel welcome or comfortable here.
But it doesn't have to be over. As others have been so quick to note, it can and likely will continue elsewhere. 
__________________
Martha
mama to 7 boys & 4 girls
Yes, they're all ours!
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happymama
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| Posted: March 26 2010 at 10:07pm | IP Logged
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Wow is right! [Deep breath. do I dare contribute to this muddle?]
I've been a silent on-looker here, but for what it's worth, I love a good debate, so I'll throw out my 2cents. As quickly as I can.
For me, this board has been a gold mine of h'schooling ideas, and when I once came across a thread that was locked because it was getting "political" I thought, you know what? That's fine. I understand that. There are other outlets for political debate.
And over the years, I've grown to vaguely understand the need for moderation in general here. Nobody wants to "be" moderated - how juvenile! Nobody wants to be told "don't go there" in a discussion. And with this particular group of women, there really shouldn't be a need. BUT again, it is cyberspace, different standards of civility do exist, and we want the threads clean and to-the-point.
Yet I am honestly baffled at how you arrived at the decision to somehow prevent or forbid or delete any references to Waldorf educational ideas. Let alone Serendipity! I mean, practically speaking - how does that work? (Martha said it well above.)
I love 4Real, I love all the women here, on both sides of the debate, but I will call a spade a spade. This was a mistake. You have (obviously unintentionally) sullied the Serendipity curriculum and therefore those moms who have chosen to embrace it. And I bet some of them feel pretty stupid right now, and that's why they aren't speaking up.
I've never been interested in Serendipity. Maybe it's because my first 3 kids were boys, and their father would not want me introducing them to little dancing fairies... But learning about that curriculum here at 4Real did not hurt me in any way. In fact, the gentleness in it (and in Waldorf schools) is a much-needed attitude today. What's wrong with just having a moderator jump onto a hot Waldorf debate occasionally and remind everyone to keep it clean? Catholic women today can ingeniously take what is naturally good from other philosophies, and turn it into something very good, as Elizabeth has done.
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MicheleQ
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| Posted: March 26 2010 at 10:58pm | IP Logged
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cactus mouse wrote:
Since you say you are at a loss to understand, let me explain why it is hard for *me*. |
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First of all I apologize if what I wrote sounded uncaring. I did not mean it that way but rather was feeling bad for the moderators who seemed to keep having to repeat themselves. I do understand that that this decision has been hard for many and I do sympathize with that.
cactus mouse wrote:
Anyone with any experience with basic logic can see that the way things are being presented is totally illogical.
A=B, B=C, so A=C.
A: Waldorf is unsound, and condemned by the Church
B: Serendipity is Waldorf.
What is the logical conclusion of "C"?
And yet we are told, "No one has condemned Serendipity." |
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No, I think this is too simplistic.
What has been said is that Anthroposophy has been condemned by the Church.
Fr. Hardon wrote:
| "Anthroposophy was condemned by the Roman Catholic Church in 1919." |
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Waldorf education was developed by Rudolf Steiner in order to educate children in the tenets of Anthroposophy, a spiritual science which he developed based on Theosophy (which Pope Benedict XV condemned in 1919) and because of the condemnation 4 Real has decided they cannot allow its discussion here. Because the 4 Real moderators have admitted that they are not equipped to make a distinction between which aspects of any given curriculum that claims to be Waldorf influenced (as Serendipity does) is problematic and which are not, they have decided to disallow all discussion relating to things Waldorf.
That is NOT a simple jump to saying Serendipity is condemned but rather it is saying that in the absence of the ability to make the distinction between which aspects of it are more Waldorf influenced and which are not, the better option is to simply disallow all discussion related to it and err, if anywhere, on the side of caution.
Or would you rather see it picked apart as people who do feel they clearly see Waldorf there lay out their concerns? I cannot think anyone would want that. That is why I believe this decision to be charitable and respectful. Unless of course the idea is that discussion of Serendipity should be allowed but only in so far as it is positive and that anyone who has a problem with it would not be allowed to voice that, even if they felt it a matter of conscience? Certainly that cannot be expected either.
Given the options there doesn't seem to be a better way this could have been handled and I stand by the moderators and their decision.
__________________
Michele Quigley
wife to my prince charming and mom of 10 in Lancaster County, PA USA
http://michelequigley.com
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4RealModerators
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| Posted: March 26 2010 at 11:21pm | IP Logged
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The moderators of this board, aware of their responsibility in participating as moderators of a public forum that aligns itself with and strives to be faithful to the Magisterium of the Catholic Church, has prayerfully and thoughtfully offered a policy for this Board regarding Anthroposophy, Steiner and its educational method of Waldorf.
Positions of authority in communities experience responsibility.
Catechism of the Catholic Church #2236 wrote:
| The exercise of authority is meant to give outward expression to a just hierarchy of values in order to facilitate the exercise of freedom and responsibility by all. Those in authority should practice distributive justice wisely, taking account of the needs and contribution of each, with a view to harmony and peace. They should take care that the regulations and measures they adopt are not a source of temptation by setting personal interest against that of the community. |
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In light of the Church condemnation of Anthroposophy and Steiner the moderators of this board were motivated to communicate the Church's statements and create clear boundaries for the educational method of Anthroposophy, Waldorf. This condemnation was issued by the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith and is still in effect. It is part of Church dogma.
Speaking clearly, this policy intends to convey the Church's statements and ask that families consider them, exercising individual responsibility in their own homes. An additional reason for this boundary was to dis-allow open critique of various programs in order to foster peace, charity, and because these topics are too difficult to moderate without specific expressions of authority from our Church. This is meant to foster "harmony and peace" here and reflects the prayerful conclusion of the weight of responsibility carried by the moderators of this board. A boundary simply says the TOPIC is not hosted here.
This board is supported by policies and documents that are prayerfully assembled. They are the foundation and support for this board. The moderators of this board work very hard to support them and ensure a quiet and smooth day-to-day running of the board in as transparent and charitable a way as possible. If a member at any time feels uncomfortable with the policies that guide this board it is understood that she will PM a moderator with her concern.
May the Peace of Christ that surpasses all understanding be yours.
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Wow (
Topic Closed)
