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LeeAnn
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| Posted: Feb 18 2010 at 10:32pm | IP Logged
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Eleanor, why would anyone here know that? Have you tried emailing the Michaels and asking them? I would guess it is a lay movement. There have been other independent Catholic schools before. There are several in an hour's drive of my home. This seems a question better suited to the CLAA's own forum. ???
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my four children are 17, 15, 11 & 8 - all now attend public school - we read many 4Real recommended books at home
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Eleanor
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| Posted: Feb 18 2010 at 11:49pm | IP Logged
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LeeAnn wrote:
| Eleanor, why would anyone here know that? |
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Well, from a Catholic perspective, it's not really a strange and esoteric question.  It's the first thing several people have asked me, when the subject of the school has come up -- and I realized that I just didn't know.
It's not so much a question of what the letter of the law is; it's just some information that might be of interest to us, in discerning what's right for our families. For instance, according to canon law, Catholic parents should promote and support Catholic schools wherever possible -- that is to say, schools that have placed themselves under the authority of the Church. It's my understanding that a homeschool is by its nature a Catholic school (as the family itself is directly under the Church's authority). So are our local parish schools, and another nearby school that's run by a religious order. I'd be inclined to prefer one of these options over enrolling in a school that's chosen not to be officially Catholic (if that turns out to be the case). For our family, this would likely take priority over considerations related to the curriculum.
I'm not sure how it would be unusual or unexpected to ask this question here, in a friendly environment where we're discussing the ins and outs of going with the CLAA. We can help one another, by sharing accurate information.
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LeeAnn
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| Posted: Feb 19 2010 at 9:16am | IP Logged
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Have you tried emailing the Michaels and asking them?
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my four children are 17, 15, 11 & 8 - all now attend public school - we read many 4Real recommended books at home
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Eleanor
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No, I haven't. I was wondering if anyone here knew, since several people have mentioned that they're enrolled. I'm not in any rush for the information, as we're not looking for a curriculum until next fall, or maybe later.
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SusanMc
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I too would be interested in the answer to Eleanor's question. I don't believe it is esoteric and it was in my mind as well as I've been following this thread and researching CLAA. (Of course with sons aged 2.5 and 1 we are WAY planning ahead.)
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melmc
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That isn't a question I thought of asking when I enrolled.
As LeeAnn suggested, I'd email the CLAA or post your question on the family forum. Mr. Michael is currently on a mission trip with a group of CLAA dads working with the Missionaries of the Poor in Jamaica, but he did check in with the forum. His wife has been on, too, so I'm sure you'd get your answer without too much delay.
Melissa
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LeeAnn
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| Posted: Feb 19 2010 at 12:24pm | IP Logged
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I don't think it is an esoteric question or unimportant, only that you are MUCH more likely to get a correct answer directly from the owners of the school rather than asking a forum of moms, most of whom are not enrolled there and none of whom work for the academy.
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my four children are 17, 15, 11 & 8 - all now attend public school - we read many 4Real recommended books at home
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spidermom
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I would like to offer a word of caution about the CLAA and share our family’s experience. I chose to enroll my children in this program last fall after years of frustration with curriculum planning. I believed this to be the answer to my prayers: online lessons and testing and record keeping and Catholic to boot. I read everything on the website and was inspired and thrilled to find I could offer my children an excellent education with little effort on my part. They offered a free guide to praying the Liturgy of the Hours and encouraged families to set up a room in their homes to serve as a “Chapel” which we did. My children plugged away quite successfully with their courses for a few months. I supervised and learned what I could through the Praeceptor course and participated in the family forum there. Things started to go downhill. I read some of Mr. Michael’s posts on the forum that seriously concerned me. One particular topic upset a number of people and even caused Drew Campbell of The Latin Centered Curriculum to totally disassociate himself with Mr. Michael and the CLAA. It is understandable that people will disagree on certain matters but what concerned me was Mr. Michael’s lack of charity. I saw this repeatedly on the forum.
Consider again the statement by hopalenik:
"I have learned personally that you do not argue with him when you do not agree...He was not speaking personally but wrapped in his theoretically, passionate, ideal world and I know that he did not mean to hurt me. However, if he had taken a shot gun to me it could not have hurt as much as his words did. I cried for 2 solid days after a forum discussion with the man. I will not go on the forum again and I have zero desire to ever engage in a personal discussion with him. I think that anyone who registers for CLAA should be forwarned upfront. You need to either ignore the forum or accept that arguing/discussion is not an option with him and take whatever value he has to give."
Keep in mind that Mr. Michael writes all of the courses. He corresponds via email and instant messaging with the students. This is the man that is ultimately educating your children. I suggest that anyone who is considering this program join the forum there--do not just read what is available to the public--there is a huge amount of inside information available to actual members of the family forum that is not available to passers-by. Read all you can there and on the main website before you enroll. Pay close attention to what Mr. Michael posts. You do not have to live the way he lives or raise your children the way he does, but is this the type of person you want in charge of your child's education?
Eleanor has a legitimate concern. I am not paranoid either, but the CLAA has somewhat of a cultish quality to it that I do not wish to be a part of. And so I have withdrawn our family from his school.
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sunshinyliving
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| Posted: Feb 19 2010 at 1:23pm | IP Logged
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Eleanor wrote:
Does anyone who's enrolled know the canonical status of the CLAA? I haven't been able to find any clear statement about this.
Is it a lay movement?
A Catholic school?
An organization of the faithful?
... but as Catholics, we need to make sure that this sort of grand-scale enterprise is backed by formal episcopal supervision and solid priestly spiritual direction, as well. Although it might seem more expedient to skip the formalities, the Church has never supported this approach, as history has amply demonstrated that it poses too many risks.) |
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Eleanor wrote:
For instance, according to canon law, Catholic parents should promote and support Catholic schools wherever possible -- that is to say, schools that have placed themselves under the authority of the Church.
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This is an interesting topic to me,especially as a new Catholic (won't actually reach the other side of the Tiber until Easter).
We have a daughter currently enrolled in CLAA. This topic was addressed on the forum and this is Mr Michael's (the director of CLAA)answer: (edited to remove quote, as it is from a private forum. Sorry!)
From what I read of the Canon code, CLAA is not allowed to be called a "catholic school" because it does not have the consent of the competent ecclesiastical authority (per Can. 802 §3). However, according to Can. 793 §1, it seems to me that the CLAA would be an acceptable alternative for parents to utilize in order to provide a catholic education for their children. Am I missing something?
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LeeAnn
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spidermom, that's a very serious accusation and extremely uncharitable if false.
Is a religious order "cultic" because its members follow the charism of its founder and have a somewhat hidden life in the cloister?
The CLAA is not a religious order but its owner is heavily influenced by and closely associated with a well-recognized religious order, the Missionaries of the Poor. This is probably what makes CLAA so different from other Catholic home school programs (other than the traditional classical education content, I mean). I can't think of another program--Kolbe, Seton, MODG, CHC, STAA, etc--that takes its inspiration from and encourages its members to imitate monastic/religious life AND has a serious focus on missions and religious vocations.
In short, I don't believe these kind of accusations belong on a public forum. You've stated your experience and that's fine but let others come to their own conclusions after reading the CLAA website or forum.
BTW, each of my kids have corresponded with the Michaels by email and IM (with me helping them) to discuss questions they had about a catechism lesson. The Michaels have been nothing but nice and friendly to the kids in every conversation.
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Angie Mc
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Friends, thank you for sharing your differing experiences with CLAA and its founder. Consider it noted that legitimate concerns have been raised from a desire to help others. Because of our policy:
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| Avoid detraction and controversy. Write kindly and respectfully about others, especially husbands, children, family members, priests, religious, the Church, and public figures. |
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and our limitations as moderators, as well as our ministry focus on designing and adapting our curriculum, we respectfully request that any further discussion on this topic be taken directly to CLAA. Feel free to PM me with any questions.
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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teachingmyown
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Angie, it doesn't look like you actually closed this topic, so, if I may, I would like to just make one comment.
hopalenik wrote:
I personally recommend that anyone who is interested register your child for classes before examining the family forums. In that order, you will decide if you like the school and the material outside of the forum. |
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I would respectfully disagree with this idea. I understand the reasoning and probably would have agreed with it in the past. My feelings now are this: We are enrolled with CLAA. So far, I do like what I see educationally. My oldest daughter is enjoying it. However, I have found from the forums that the founder's vision of family is so contrary to my own that it makes me question the whole foundation of the school. I don't know if this is fair or practical. I have been debating with myself about this for the last week and it is really weighing on me.
My point in saying this is not to tell others what to think of CLAA, but rather to advise interested families to get a full and accurate picture of not just the academic program but the people behind the program. It may not matter to you, or it may be the decision maker. I think that if I had looked more closely, I may have chosen otherwise.
I believe in the good intentions of the Michaels and do not want to disparage their efforts. They have a bold vision and purpose. Their love for God and truth seems very apparent.
I hope this comes across as I intended it, in charity.
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In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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teachingmyown
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I just wanted to add, lest I look extremely arrogant, that I don't presume to say that if one's vision for family is in contrast to mine that one is not trustworthy of capable of doing great and holy things.  My point is more that I question, for myself, entrusting my children's education to someone with whom I have deep disagreements . Obviously, I haven't been given the authority to decide the correct way to raise Catholic children and all are free to disagree with me! I love and respect many who don't believe everything I do.
I hope that is a little more clear.
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Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: CLAA For Elementary/Middle
