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MarilynW
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How much do you outsource for high school?
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Marilyn
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guitarnan
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We don't spend that kind of money.
Our community college offers homeschool bio and chem lab - we didn't do them, but they weren't $600 each.
We did sign ds up for a couple of classes there (for dual credit) this year and the cost is $88 per semester unit, so a 3-unit class is still less than $300. (Beware, though, some textbooks, like math, are $100! Shop online for them...)
We have actually done all our science labs at home or at co-op. We use the Apologia science books (I know some people don't like them, but we have had good success with them and I love the labs because they use things we own). Ds did virtual dissections for biology (for animals - we dissected live plants).
The kinds of things I would "outsource" would be language classes if I don't speak the language (Chinese, for ex.) or computer programming. And - I'd probably try it at home first, maybe over the summer, to see if we could do it ourselves, before outsourcing.
Some of my friends send their kids to a local Catholic homeschool co-op for high schoolers that meets a couple of times a week, is much like traditional school, etc. We don't do this either - our weekly co-op provides plenty of social time and collaborative learning experiences (I teach the high schoolers...it's fun). Cost: about $30 per semester for facility rental.
Do we have a "Cadillac" homeschool experience? No. We have more of a Ford or Honda experience. Steady, fairly dependable, works fine.
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jdostalik
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Marilyn,
We have outsourced our dd for science and writing this year. We have monthly tuition which I find much easier to budget for...but when I added up both classes they totaled $540 for the writing class ($60/month meets twice weekly for one hour) and $675 for the biology class with labs, meets once a week for two hours)...Yikes, that is $1215 per year for just two courses. 
I have a sister-in-law who has a senior in high school this year. She outsources a ton and her husband told her he is fine with it (and they are very, very frugal, almost to the point of being considered cheap.  ). His rationale was that as homeschoolers, we know what subjects our students need help with and by being able to outsource them at a premium price AND choose the teacher, location we want, we can continue to tailor classes and learning experiences to our family's needs...and our children are still being insulated from the secular learning environment...
The dual credit option could be good value for the money, depending on the child. I say that, because I have a very dear homeschooling friend down the street who has a child she has sent to the local community college for dual credit courses. They do not have the budget to outsource. She is now worried about a lot of her daughter's new "college" friends. Depending on the child and their temperament, sending them to community college could make sense or...not much sense at all...
I feel for families (like my friend) who have not discretionary money to budget at all and are left with little to no options for outsourcing...my friend is organizing a pizza game night in her home for homeschooling teens once a month to try to keep her daughter connected with all her old homeschooled friends...I really admire her.
I don't think there is an easy answer...well, there never does seem to be an easy answer does there?
Tailoring the education for our children according to our family's values and faith as well as keeping to a budget is a challenge indeed!  Nancy seems to have found a good balance! 
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Jennifer in TX
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stefoodie
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yeah, i had a shock also 2 years ago when i found out how much several families i know spent on homeschooling their teens -- i felt really mousy and stingy, talk about guilt -- am i shortchanging my teen? some were spending almost as much as tuition at the local Catholic (prep) school!
we've had to adjust our thinking though. i've always thought a $200/month budget for school was large enough, but now I think it really depends on the age/interests/future goals. like my youngers I've hardly had to buy anything for them the past couple of years, so $200 was actually too much for some months, since we already have so much from the first 2, and I'm still selling stuff we hadn't used and probably won't use. but i find that i'm starting to spend more on the next teen to make sure he's got what he needs to prepare himself.
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Paula in MN
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guitarnan wrote:
| Do we have a "Cadillac" homeschool experience? No. We have more of a Ford or Honda experience. Steady, fairly dependable, works fine. |
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In the words of George Jones and Tammy Wynette..."No, we're not the Jet Set, we're the Chevro Let Set!"
Describes us perfectly. While I don't have a highschooler yet, this issue has been on my mind. We will not be able to spend that kind of money. Period. I'm anxiously watching this thread!
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 Paula
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guitarnan
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I should point out that we did not send ds to the community college until he was 17. He was worried that he would not fit in, but there are several high school students in his class.
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Bookswithtea
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guitarnan wrote:
Do we have a "Cadillac" homeschool experience? No. We have more of a Ford or Honda experience. Steady, fairly dependable, works fine. |
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 This made me smile. We tried outsourcing for one semester in middle school. In addition to the shocking expense, it is also very hard on a family when mom has to do all the schlepping back and forth to classes in addition to homeschooling youngers.
We opted for the do-it-at-home method. I figure that the wonderful reputation homeschoolers have as advanced was built on the early students who had little curriculum available and no outsourcing options. They did well, so it has to be possible.
It is still more expensive than homeschooling younger children, though. Sometimes just the spine and related necessities for one course are well over $100. But its a bargain compared to outsourcing.
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MarilynW
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Bookswithtea wrote:
In addition to the shocking expense, it is also very hard on a family when mom has to do all the schlepping back and forth to classes in addition to homeschooling youngers.
We opted for the do-it-at-home method. I figure that the wonderful reputation homeschoolers have as advanced was built on the early students who had little curriculum available and no outsourcing options. They did well, so it has to be possible.
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Amen.
I kind of feel guilty too because I am so not a coop person either. I hate to put my kids in a "nursery" and it just destroys the rhythm of our days to be in coops - and I guard our routines and peace very jealously!! I have played with the idea of coops for next year - but frankly it scares the wits out of me - all the driving, no naps for the littles etc
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MarilynW
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My other worry about all the $s for outsourcing - is not so much for the first - we could somehow probably find the $s - it is how to do it for all of them.
It is the same with Seton - but I am doing research to do my own transcripts etc - just because for 6 or more children it will be so costly to pay that much for a transcript and accreditation. NARHS is also real expensive - I just got their book - it is approx $500/yer of high school per child - and that is ONLY for the transcript. At least Seton includes lesson plans and books in theirs.
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jdostalik
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Marilyn and Books,
I share your opinions of co-ops and the trekking to and fro--I "home" school for a reason!
Thankfully, all my outsourcing opportunities are within literally two minutes of my house and walking distance for my kids if I chose to let them walk...I'm not quite there yet... 
My outsourcing opportunities are not co-ops, I just drop off my daughter and pick her up when she is done...And it is so close that I can leave my 12 year old with the littles and race up and get her and be back in 5 minutes! In fact, the temptation to outsource more is pretty tantalizing since it is all so close and is not a burden on me as far as travel time, etc...
But, the expense is an issue. When I looked at the Kaps testing stuff, I was blown away with how much money parents can spend on their children--THOUSANDS of dollars just to prepare them for the PSAT and the SAT--good grief--that is ridiculous...
I think, for me, I need to be better at setting specific academic goals for each of my children (you inspired me, Marilyn!)...not each of them will require the same amount of outsourcing, either...
What is NARHS? I should know, but I am sleep-deprived today...
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Jennifer in TX
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melanie
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Goodness, I'm not planning to spend that much. We will probably enroll in MODG for high school...my daughter is dyslexic and struggles a lot with writing, and so I would like some help there. They have been attending a weekly co-op most of the school year, but this may be the last year. I have another little one due in April and I just don't know how I'm going to be gone all day like that with a 2yo and a baby.
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MarilynW
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Jennifer - our outsourced classes would cost the same as yours. I was talking about the coops as an alternative to high cost classes - but these do not really work for us.
NARHS - a school which issues a transcript www.narhs.org
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MarilynW
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guitarnan wrote:
| I should point out that we did not send ds to the community college until he was 17. |
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Sigh - my dd is a young high schooler - will be just short of 17 when she graduates high school. I almost hope she will take longer than a year to finish Seton Grade 9 and then we will be more on track with her age - but she is so determined - and I am trying hard not to dumb her down when she is so keen.
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guitarnan
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No, let her go forward. If she's not old enough for community college, she's not. That is fine - if she is the go-getter she seems to be, she will find other paths toward her goal.
My dd is a year ahead of her age in grade level (grade 7 at the "official" age for grade 6), and we will face this issue with her. I am confident we'll find a way to give her a good learning experience without putting her into difficult situations.
(Believe me, if homeschooling had been popular when I was in school, I'd have taken that football and run with it...and finished high school early. It would have been fine, because my parents were there to provide guidance and wisdom. You and your dh sound very involved and committed to the educational process...it will be okay!)
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Angie Mc
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One of the biggest perks of designing our own curriculum with our teens has been the money we saved - to be able to live within our means...and that our money is spent on what we choose. The only thing I outsourced so far that cost us was Latin. It wasn't all that expensive and was worth it. Once dd finished her 10th grade, she tested into the community college and entered a summer program that paid for 7 credits. She did that for 2 summers (14 free credits) then decided to go full-time this past fall as a senior in high school. She was accepted into the honors program which earned her a scholarship to cover her tuition (and even some books.) Our family has worked at being frugal when it comes to learning at home, and yes, we've managed to stay frugal during the high school years. Look around for opportunities in your area AND don't feel compelled to do the whole co-op - private lessons - expensive route. I know there can be a lot of pressure to walk that walk, but only choose what is best for your family - to include your financial limits. God provides!
Love,
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MarilynW
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Angie Mc wrote:
One of the biggest perks of designing our own curriculum with our teens has been the money we saved - to be able to live within our means...and that our money is spent on what we choose. The only thing I outsourced so far that cost us was Latin. It wasn't all that expensive and was worth it. Once dd finished her 10th grade, she tested into the community college and entered a summer program that paid for 7 credits. She did that for 2 summers (14 free credits) then decided to go full-time this past fall as a senior in high school. She was accepted into the honors program which earned her a scholarship to cover her tuition (and even some books.) Our family has worked at being frugal when it comes to learning at home, and yes, we've managed to stay frugal during the high school years. Look around for opportunities in your area AND don't feel compelled to do the whole co-op - private lessons - expensive route. I know there can be a lot of pressure to walk that walk, but only choose what is best for your family - to include your financial limits. God provides!
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Thank you Angie - this is so encouraging.
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Angie Mc wrote:
| Our family has worked at being frugal when it comes to learning at home, and yes, we've managed to stay frugal during the high school years. |
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Yes, there's a positive side to being frugal. It keeps you independent and selective instead of just doing what everyone else is doing, and it is a good role model for your kids -- that one of your family values is stewarding your resources.
If a family happens to be wealthy, that frugality will look different -- the sum total of $$$ spent may be considerably greater, which obviously is fine. We work with what we have.
But there is no doubt a homeschool can work great on limited funds, even in high school. Such has been my experience. There is nothing *essential* to a good education that HAS to cost a lot of money. There are some things that are nice, convenient, enriching, cool, a great opportunity -- but nothing *essential*, or so I believe.
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ALmom
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Just because you outsource for one, does not mean you will need to or should expect to outsource for another. Sometimes, outsourcing with the oldest then provides a future source of teacher help :). Sometimes God just drops something amazing in your lap and you know it fills so many needs at once - or sometimes something is obviously the answer to desperate prayer.
Also, always take your concerns about your limits, etc. to the Lord in prayer. God is not expecting us to go broke over things - nor can we always do everything. Look at the opportunities, be creative and think outside the box, when you are feeling majorly stressed in an area. Sometimes you will be surprised with what becomes available. One year I was desperate for Latin - but could not afford to pay even the cheapest local rate for tutors. Still, I had a highschooler with a difficulty staying on target and neither dh or I had any knowledge here. I didn't have a lot of time to learn it either - as we were still doing therapy with some folks and besides I just slowed the children down. I was prepared to somehow make Seton or Rosetta stone or whatever work - but the stress of wondering how I would answer the inevitable mistakes in AK or - just could not picture something working besides someone else teaching it. It didn't hurt to ask again and see what was out there - We found a Latin tutor who charged by the hour rather than by the person - and I decided we just had to recruit enough students to make it affordable for us. A small co-op grew out of this endeavor of desperation - another mom stepped forward to teach Latin for the rest of my crowd -except my preschooler who did story hour, and crafts. Someone did a Biology lab (for highschoolers and one for rest of the school age folks). A mom stepped forward wanting to use the Pudewa program to teach writing to a group - all my writing phobic boys joined in on that one. I wanted my preschooler and toddlers to have things to do, so I offered to do a storytime; someone else did crafts, and of course we always have PE. It was obviously one of those things that was clearly meant to be for us. Our youngest just asked recently when we were going to do another Catholic co-op. I don't think it will happen anytime soon - but might have a few families over to my house for something special if I find a teacher in something really important or helpful to the children. That particular year - the focus of the co-op was celebrating the liturgical year together, providing some science labs and foreign language study for the highschoolers and then making sure we provided for the other children so it just wasn't a stress for all the moms and littles. It was a very small co-op which made it more tolerable for me. It also had some things available that just were a breather for me that year - someone taught the Peduwa program, elementary Latin (to a combined group of ages), a science lab for the youngers as well as the highschoolers - and some opportunities for friendly/non-stressful oral presentations and spelling bees. It was obvious that this was an opportunity from God to help us over some rough spots. We didn't use all the co-op classes as substitutes for our own home teaching - but they were much needed enrichments that were a God send. We loved it that year. It was stressful the next year (think we even went to a once per month option that year and it was still stressful to us) - and so we didn't participate the following year.
Another thing that just fell in our lap - a very hands on lady told me that "God put it on her heart to help my dd." I only called to ask her if she had any tutors to recommend - thinking that I couldn't afford to hire a tutor but couldn't afford not to for this child - and just praying God would give us some ideas as we worked hard to find a solution. I know God really did put this on her heart - we'd been praying desperately and besides, being a lovely Catholic mom of a large family and a great model for dd, she just happened to have the exact same learning style as dd. I would never have asked her to tutor, and I doubt she would have just been out looking to do this as she was expecting #6 at the time. In 6 months helping dd with science, she turned things all around for us. She tutored dd 1 hour in science and dd spent an hour helping her around the house. (The tutoring may have gone on longer, as they both really go into it). In addition to the wonderful science experience, my dd has a bond with this wonderful mom that is special. There were other things God had in mind for this beyond science help. I was able to loan the mom materials, etc. and let her look at things we have - so helpfully she has benefitted from us as well. Dd still likes to help her clean when she does a Bible study over there.
Sometimes outsourcing becomes obviously an opportunity God is putting in your path - and you run with it. Sometimes you look at all the opportunities and frankly, nothing works for your family - too much time in the car, too costly, teacher isn't right (there is a chemistry teacher who does labs - whole course in half a year, but that doesn't work for my science challenged folks, especially if it is a classroom type model - who knows, it might work with my science fan; but then again, he may be better continuing to teach himself. We'll see when the time comes. Sometimes classes that I thought would work and be perfect, were full, not offered the year we needed them, too expensive, etc. In these cases, I learned to let go of my fear and preconceived notions of what had to happen and realize that God had other plans for us that year - usually it involved stretching me to do things I really didn't think we'd be able to do - or it drew in dh or ... And some years, we simply had to drop something from the agenda as I just couldn't do it and we had no source for outside help at the time. (Several years that is what happened to Latin after I made very serious attempts - we still got Latin eventually, timing was different and now I am teaching it to youngers using LC DVD - before, when I tried, those weren't available and science fan is now so enthusiastic and had just enough from the co-op that he is mostly teaching all of the rest of us - or at least correcting my pronunciation.
I know people who did not outsource anything academic - and their oldest children went into science fields, got generous scholarships and are doing very well. They found opportunities to play athletics - something a bit tougher in our neck of the woods at the time and taking a bit more creativity.
We are all different, with different needs. You don't have to outsource, but neither are you a homeschool failure if there are times that you just have to - even sacrificing to make it happen. We still maintain intimate knowledge and continue to discuss these outsourced courses with our child - sometimes I've taken these along with a child. When it is meant to be, there are sacrifices that we all make - youngers spend more time in the car than my perfect picture, etc. , but there is no neglect or overbearing burden. When it is meant to be, there are things that open up for the youngers that make it ok. (When we were doing all the music lessons, we sometimes made a park day - or brother got a mowing job as a result of being around and known and to this day mows the violin studio grass - so that it wasn't all just car time. It also did not interfere with naps - unfortunately mine didn't nap except in the car so we scheduled lessons to be when I wanted them to sleep.
I think one thing that I have learned in homeschooling highschoolers is that none of us are in isolation. Homeschooling does not mean you are trying or have to do it all by yourself. Sometimes your support comes in more informal ways - sometimes in more formal ways. Sometimes we are just pulling on someone else's knowledge of resources (4real, DRE, another mom, a teacher friend, a trusted therapist. Sometimes we are drawing on someone else's deeper knowledge of a subject area - again it may be as simple as a phone call to another mom who you know can answer your child's question (or yours) more efficiently, posting a question for debate on a message board, sometimes you get tutors or have a more systematic support in a subject - sometimes it only takes a short time to get you over the block and then you are fine at doing it totally at home again. Sometimes your support comes from participating in outside activities (social or church or interest driven) to fill in needs you have observed. We've seen some real possibilities for mentoring relationships and more science support via civil air patrol -plus it fills a need our boys have for some fun, male competition, comraderie and physical fitness (it just is not fun to race an overweight mom or an older and starting to get slower dad anymore). Civil Air Patrol, to our surprise, has a huge variety of things they do - from public speaking to military drills. The responsibility for taking care of the uniform, shining boots, sewing on patches, etc. is great for attention to detail - scatter brained mad scientist is benefitting a lot. This wasn't something we initially did with the whole family in mind - our pilot wanabee checked into it (and had looked at AF academy recommendations for homeschoolers) and we felt it was important for his goals, plus seemed to provide some things to fill gaps in what we had been able to do from home. Everyone else seems to have jumped on board. The commander is a homeschooler himself (something we did not know initially) and they have included younger siblings in as many activities as possible as long as the dad is around - our boys that are too young to enjoy have done some things with them and often chose to go to meetings. We got necessary guidance from oldest dd music teachers and orchestra provided a social outlet as well as developing a talent.
Sometimes our help is a very informal, impromptu opportunity to have another person present something - lead a nature walk, lab, etc. and sometimes it is a bit more formal as in delegating the primary teaching to someone you trust or to a situation that you and your spouse, after prayer, have determined to be the most prudent course at the time - you don't just hand it all over and forget. All these provide support for us because none of us can know everything and we all have some limits somewhere. It is a wonderfully humbling experience to work with a highschooler.
Take it one thing at a time. Pray and discuss with your dh. Express fears outloud, express feelings of ineptitude, express the disadvantages of outsourcing - money being only one of them and especially think about why you think you need it. I knew I'd never lead a lab - and yes, we did outsource one biology lab - but we've done all our other labs at home, including chemistry. I didn't have a clue - but dh previewed all the hands on stuff out there, and some lab kits and made the decision about labs for a child who would not do labs without being told to. I've worried myself to death, needlessly, about the science fan and just know that whatever we do (obviously we will be thinking and discerning and looking at what happens to be around in a year or so for him), it will end up fine. He may end up being better off creating his own labs and writing them up - honestly that is how he has done science all his life (gets an idea or reads something, wants to see if it is true or if there is a better way to do it and designs his own test and ....). Just because the child hits high school, doesn't mean you have to revamp what has been working all along. If they are learning, keep at it - don't fix what isn't broken. The one thing I'll need for science fan in high school is a safety inspector/mentor - but if it must be one of us, dh will just have to step up to the plate because science fan uses just the right words to keep me off his real trail and make me think it is 100% safe and I'll give permission and ... I'm thinking he'll be the science mentor for everyone under him - kind of has happened naturally so far.
Guess what I'm trying to say is don't come into high school with pre-conceived notions. Don't think you have to suddenly revamp everything. Don't presume you will or will not outsource. Know that you will do what you need to do with the time and money and talent with which you and your family have been blessed. Sometimes, though, God sends us some marvelous opportunities and they just fit the bill -. Pray and be confident. It helps to think about what stresses you most - or is the biggest failure area of your school and these are often the areas that a little outsourcing is a good investment. For us, prudent outsourcing has given me more time to be in touch with what my child is learning and doing rather than stressing over learning practically an entire course in order to answer child's questions - and then both of us stressing and hating it. In those situations, the time saved in stress and panic and eye strain and burning the candle at both ends is worth a lot. These are also generally the times that coupled with some material sacrifice on our part in other areas (not ever buying a new couch and taking hand me downs), God has provided some awesome and affordable options for us - sometimes these were free of charge and involved children doing some service in return for the help. If a subject is something we have fun doing together, then it isn't generally worth outsourcing. You will know when you just need to do something - and then don't feel guilty about it at all.
Janet
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: Jan 18 2010 at 8:35pm | IP Logged
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Good grief. I don't see how anyone can justify charging $600 per student for a homeschool biology class. I'm sorry, but that is just outrageous. 
I'd be willing to bet I could do an entire class of 18-24 for that price.
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
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guitarnan
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| Posted: Jan 18 2010 at 8:52pm | IP Logged
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There is so much wonderful, road-tested advice here! What a great thread!
I am tucking away this helpful info, because my science child will be in high school in a year and a half (oof!).
And, Theresa, any science class you taught would be priceless! (I can just imagine the fun...wow...makes me want to move to Alaska, but only during the summer, LOL!)
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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4Real Forums : High School Years and Beyond
Topic: Outsourcing for high school
