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teachingmyown
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| Posted: Oct 28 2009 at 9:05am | IP Logged
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Thanks, Books. Your hindsight may very well benefit the rest of us.
What workbooks come to mind when you say "efficient, independent"?
We do TT for math. He's not thrilled but he does it. He reads Apologia's Botany. Again, not thrilled, but he will read it. I don't get any real narration from him though. We did Teaching Company history last year and he said that he liked it. The rest of the kids didn't so I kind of let it drop. Maybe I should offer to let him continue there. Right now, he is listening to SOTW while playing in his room. I am not sure how much he is getting, but maybe some will sink in.
I am really excited today because months ago I placed a hold request for Weapons of Mass Instruction and I just got an email saying it was ready for me! I think I will dig into that for the next week and hopefully it will bolster my out-of-the-box thinking.
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In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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sunshinyliving
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| Posted: Oct 28 2009 at 9:12am | IP Logged
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"He read late, but loves to read and seems to have good comprehension. But he hates to do school, any school. He balks at every book, every subject, every approach. He does have a dysgraphia,"
I have a daughter like this, except I would add that she doesn't love to read and has a very hard time spelling. A while back I pared back her work to just the essentials and then required one small step in each subject per day and hoped for the best. I live in a state which requires each homeschooled student to take a standardized test each year, and I've been pleased to see that even with what could be considered verypared down studies she consistently scores well.
I know that in high school she'll need to be able to:
1. do reasonably well in math
2. read well and comprehend
3. write a good essay
So, with these as my primary objectives, her days look like this (and yes, there is complaining, but it gets done and I do see progress):
Each day she does:
math- (2-4 pages of one of Keys Curriculum Press's workbooks- the problems are written in the workbook- no transcribing required!)
reading- one or two chapters of a book of her choice, and one or two chapters of a book of my choice (usually history or science related, fiction or non-fiction)
writing- Together, we work on a writing assignment of my choice a little each day. For example, one day might simply be picking a topic for a paragraph. The next day we might brainstorm (or research) for supporting ideas. etc
spelling- I use "MegaWords" from EPS, not a spelling book, per se, but designed to help children decode words and spell words according to syllables. It's been a great help.
First thing in the morning For a little over an hour I usually teach all of my "students" (grades K-8) together "school-style" with me in the front of the room, using the white board. We usually do most of the following each day: Bible story, scripture verse, poem, catechism, grammar concept, rosary art, journals, handwriting practice, review presidents, practice countries/capitals of a continent, and occasionally a math drill, science experiment, report by kid, etc. I find that this time period has had HUGE benefits for all of my children. They really remember what I go over with them in this manner and prefer it over the workbook or "couch" method. I think it also has the added benefit (especially for my non-academic daughter) of "rounding out" her education.
breaks- I used to also have the problem of a child leaving to do their own thing after finishing an assignment and then being very unhappy when called back to "school". What works for me now is to always have them bring me their completed assignment (or tell me that it is finished). Then, I can either tell them to do another assignment from their chart, or tell them they can have a break. If it is a "break", they know to set the timer for ten minutes, and then to return to me when it beeps. Works great!
feeling guilty- One of my reasons for homeschooling was to allow my children to enjoy a stress-free life and follow and develop their own goals. I used to feel a little guilty when I would call them in from playing to do boring old schoolwork. I was apologetic about it and often would just let them continue playing figuring that we would eventually get to it. What really helped was a daily routine with little or no outside interruptions. The kids (and I) know this time is dedicated to schooling, so there are fewer hard feelings if a fun-time is "interrupted". The timer has also been a good friend. The kids know their playtime is limited, and with that in mind, are more willing to return to task with good attitudes.
Well, this is what's worked for me in a situation similar to yours. I'm glad you brought the topic up as I've really enjoyed reading the comments, gleaning ideas, and being encouraged. Just remember, even small steps will take him forward!
Sincerely,
Diana C.
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: Oct 28 2009 at 10:21am | IP Logged
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teachingmyown wrote:
Thanks, Books. Your hindsight may very well benefit the rest of us.
What workbooks come to mind when you say "efficient, independent"?
We do TT for math. He's not thrilled but he does it. He reads Apologia's Botany. Again, not thrilled, but he will read it. I don't get any real narration from him though. We did Teaching Company history last year and he said that he liked it. The rest of the kids didn't so I kind of let it drop. Maybe I should offer to let him continue there. Right now, he is listening to SOTW while playing in his room. I am not sure how much he is getting, but maybe some will sink in.
I am really excited today because months ago I placed a hold request for Weapons of Mass Instruction and I just got an email saying it was ready for me! I think I will dig into that for the next week and hopefully it will bolster my out-of-the-box thinking. |
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I liked the Gatto book a lot, although after the first few chapters, it got a little redundant and rant-y.
If I could go back and do it again, it would look more like this.
SOTW for history...add in the quizzes but don't treat them as quizzes...just let him fill it in while he's listening. Get through all 4 volumes (minus the couple of chapters that need editing for anti Catholic mythology) by the end of 8th grade. Add historical fiction and other adventure books that he'd like. Then the Linwood Thompson/Teaching Company American and world history for high school, along with the workbooks that come with it. I haven't yet found a decent govt/econ program.
Jeannie Fulbright's science because its easy to get through. I'd probably let him choose which one he wants to do each year. I wouldn't bother with narrations with a child like this. I was hard nosed about getting him to learn to type though, in junior high (Mavis Beacon) and then asked him for short narrations on the computer.
Teaching Company for high school science, or something else that is dvd based. I'd add in hands on labs like insect collecting, dissecting frogs, etc each year, using resources separate from the program. I'd require him to keep some sort of record of the labs, even if its photographs of each step of a dissection, with a sentence below each picture telling what he did.
Easy Grammar...whatever level seems appropriate to you for middle school. One volume during the middle school years and Easy Grammar Plus for high school. And then call it good.
If he needs spelling help, I'd use wordly wise (I like the older ones Seton uses better) and then give him a weekly spelling/vocab. test (just ask him to use 7 of the words in complete sentences, spelled right, once a week). If he's fine in this area, then skip it.
I'd use one of the smaller IEW workbooks, especially The Elegant Essay, for each year of junior high. These are clear in their expectations and don't overwhelm. Just make sure he knows the 5 paragraph format by the end of the 8th grade. Then have him use it for literature in high school, picking books that he will like and following study guides. My ds needed a clear plan in front of him so that he could see what he had to do and see when it was over.
Rosetta Stone has worked well for us for foreign language. He also responded fairly well to coop type classes for a subject or two, but those are hard for us to pull off because they are disruptive to the rest of the family's day. This might be a real consideration though, for 11th-12th grade when he can drive himself.
I forgot to mention that it never worked for this child to try to do that "learn time management by planning your own school" thing. Disaster. He needs a clear plan in front of him that is easy to read and follow and check off. Since professors offer this in college too, I don't consider it a crutch.
I mostly focused on programs that were pretty simple to schedule within a year so that it wasn't a burden on me. He just needed a weekly check off list (I would type it up generically so that I could print off the same list every week). If he starts school by 8:30ish am, it would be nice for him to be done by 1ish at age 12, working up to about 2:30 by 9th grade at the latest. I would insist that he bring me everything, once its completed so that I can skim/check. That's his ticket to be excused to go back to legos and real life.  And I would promise him that once he brought it to me, I'd check it within about 10-15 minutes so that he wasn't discouraged by having to wait for me.
Also, it didn't work in the slightest to have this child do unit studies with the rest of the family. It drove him crazy to feel like he was being slowed down by the crowd dynamic, and it felt baby-ish to him and I could never convince him otherwise that it wasn't. Complete independence from me except for answer keys definitely worked better.
__________________
Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and  due 9/10
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Connections
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| Posted: Oct 28 2009 at 7:26pm | IP Logged
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Books-
I am wondering if you would mind explaining more about your realization that unschooling did not work for this son. Please know that I am not at all challenging this. I simply would be interested in your experience with unschooling this type of student.
Thanks,
Tracey
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florasita
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| Posted: Oct 28 2009 at 8:45pm | IP Logged
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Molly this is all 4 of our boys . None of them wanted to do school . And really none of them did official school nor do the two at home now . We do have workbooks laying around and every now and then a boy will say " Mum I want to do school " Our boys are all different in that some appeared to be busy and others appeared to be lazy . In the end our two young adult men both work both do many activties both wonder about the priesthood , college etc.
When I took Jasmine dd23 out of school in gr10 to homeschool ( she'd been in school since K ) I did nothing but say to her you love to read and write , then do it , you don't enjoy math and kept according to the school failing gr9 math each semester . I told her take a break .No math . Read books and write your poems , stories etc. When she asked about history & science I gave her a history text from gr 11 . I took biology the easy way out of the library handed these books to her and said read these then you'll have your credits  our kids know if they want to know something we go and get it , if they don't understand something they ask .
Jasmine then got her first fulltime job at 18 , she and Wesley had Evan when she was 20 she worked the whole time . Then went to colledge studying get this accounting , yes math stuff . The girl who failed math in the system is great at math,  go figure .
Our ds 13 learned to read at 11yo . He reads great now ,he spells great too .He cannot write what so ever .He prints like his 8 yo brother .
Maybe coming from a supposed higher educated upper class family I really could not stand the we were raised that we would not be anything without attaining that level of education etc. I to not wish to pass that on to our children really value our children weather they become blue collar workers , clean floors at wal mart etc.
Can they survive and not be homeless yes I hope they can provide and sustain a certain healthy lifestyle but our goal is to have beautiful healthy young adults spiritually , emotionally etc. go out into the world .
My sil and dear friend both feel somehow our ds13 is to help change the world I think if he is meant to it will not be because he can read or write etc. or what society labels him as being a good person depending on his income education etc. It will be through being the person God created him to be . Is he genius I've no idea right now he is my ds13 who drives me crazy with his hormonal stuff
ds13 & ds8 both love pathway readers and workbooks . ds13 really likes copywork of great quotes etc. They both love old books , have access to what ever they want at the library etc. and yes they both play legos and wow they'd love to come play on the trampoline and I as thier mum would let them I guess I feel much more at ease lately having 4 adult children who are my proof
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May I rise & rest with words of Gratitude on my Breath
May I have the Heart & Mind of a Child in my Depth
May I forever remember to be a Light
May Peace Love & Hope be My Sight
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: Oct 29 2009 at 7:17am | IP Logged
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Connections wrote:
Books-
I am wondering if you would mind explaining more about your realization that unschooling did not work for this son. Please know that I am not at all challenging this. I simply would be interested in your experience with unschooling this type of student.
Thanks,
Tracey |
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Sure. It was my experience that allowing him to follow his own interests without expectations led to a general disrespect for the work of learning, and a kind of scoffing attitude toward any type of learning that was not internally driven. It also just seemed to compound the problem, rather than alleviate it. And as I mentioned before, it irritated him to the n-th degree when I asked him for any sort of academic work that was even remotely related to his interests. He didn't want his "school" mixed with his "passions." He was so adamant about this that when he was in middle school and was quite driven to be an Eagle Scout, if I picked (or asked him to pick) a badge that would double as schoolwork (never asking for extra work from him, btw), he wouldn't do it...even if it was Eagle required!  I don't know if its my child's temperament, or if other boys who are like this might respond to unschooling differently, but it was a disaster for us. Ds is happiest when he has hard physical work in front of him, real life activities that matter, mountains to conquer, competition to win, etc. Unschooling did nothing for any of these traits. Honestly, he's the kind of kid who might have liked military boarding school at one point, as long as the desk work wasn't more than the physical work.
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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Donna Marie
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| Posted: Oct 29 2009 at 11:14am | IP Logged
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Wow, Books..thanks!
This is MY 10yo ds...and he is driving me insane. (Crazy is too light a word) It is affecting everyone under him. I am trying so hard and I really don't feel competent around him for some odd reason. I am revamping things to make it easier on me and dh and telling him that it is a new quarter and outlining new expectations...we shall see how it flies. He has to answer to dh now. I hope that helps.
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God love you!
Donna Marie from NJ
hs momma to 9dc!!
Finding Elegant Simplicity
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Oct 29 2009 at 11:41am | IP Logged
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Hard physical "man work" seems to generally be good for any boy too (and doesn't hurt the girls either). Life is much easier when my kids are swimming or playing lacrosse.. or have snow to shovel and wood to stack and chop, a garden to put in, lawns to mow etc.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: Oct 29 2009 at 11:49am | IP Logged
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JodieLyn wrote:
| Hard physical "man work" seems to generally be good for any boy too (and doesn't hurt the girls either). Life is much easier when my kids are swimming or playing lacrosse.. or have snow to shovel and wood to stack and chop, a garden to put in, lawns to mow etc. |
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This is so easy to overlook but so important for boys this age. Lack of physical labor affects every other area of their lives.
__________________
Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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Connections
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| Posted: Oct 29 2009 at 12:20pm | IP Logged
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Books-
Thank you SO much- your explanation for why this didn't work is VERY helpful!
Blessings,
Tracey
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teachingmyown
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| Posted: Nov 03 2009 at 10:25am | IP Logged
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This thread has been great! Can we look at these boys now specifically in the context of puberty? Ds seems so tired and fussy these days. When I tell him to do any school, he gets very emotional. Looking at him today, I wondered if any of this has to do with what is going on physically.
Dh and I had decided to start ds on the first CLAA class. Honestly, I don't anticipate it being too hard. But, with his resistance and general attitude, I am wondering if this is the wrong time to start in on something new. Maybe, the workbook route is better while giving him some time to mature.
Do you approach school differently at this time of life?
__________________
In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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Erin
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teachingmyown wrote:
Dh and I had decided to start ds on the first CLAA class. Honestly, I don't anticipate it being too hard. But, with his resistance and general attitude, I am wondering if this is the wrong time to start in on something new. Maybe, the workbook route is better while giving him some time to mature.
Do you approach school differently at this time of life? |
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Honestly Molly it could well be the wrong timing. I know there is no way I could have done something like that with dd14 at that age. Even now I would only start to consider that for him in a few months time (by then he would be 14.6)
Maturity has played a huge difference in my ds' life, just this week he came to me and admitted his writing is dreadful and hw would like to do something about it. Before he didn't care. Only this year he has come to care about maths and persistently, without my nagging work at him (it helped that we found the correct program; sort of like your Teaching Textbooks). Only this year as he is writing his novel has his handwriting reduced from the size of a second grader to the size of a second former.
When he was 13 and I was despairing, dh kept reassuring me that it was all normal, there were that many hormones running through his body making him hard to think. Actually I watched this documentary around that time of a doctor, in his 30s who had never gone through puberty, he sat there very clam, sedate (and young looking). They started him on hormone injections and they interviewed him again, he was fidgeting and moving and his brain was obviously all over the place. It was very fortuitous for ds that I'd watched that as it gave me a better understanding, plus of course dh reassuring me that it wasn't a permanent state.
Back then whenever I asked him to do something, he would sit there obediently in body but his mind wouldn't;t be there. Then this big boy of mine would have this whipped puppy look, he'd pick up his pen and look like he was battling tears. I had to back off.
I couldn't have even done the workbook route with him. Now way.
This year has been an improvement, and I'm hoping for great things for year nine (after Christmas). His sister had a huge maturity/attitude change by grade nine too.
But that's just my son, yours may be different. Perhaps the formality would be good for him. Perhaps if I'd had something 'outside' for ds to be accountable for it may have made a difference.
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Erin
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Kristie 4
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My boys don't fit your bill but my 12yo daughter does to a T!!
Thank you so much for all the great pointers Books. I think she is also overwhelmed by the endless feel of our days (esp. as of late) and would do so much better with the end of the day, or week, in site from the get go.
I will be mulling all this wisdom over on my couch (I am recovering from knee surgery)...
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Kristie in Canada
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~Rachel~
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| Posted: Nov 04 2009 at 2:49pm | IP Logged
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Wow- I never realised there was more than one boy out there like this  - you definitely described my 10 year old!!
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~Rachel~
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Do you know this boy?
