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florasita
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Our church does not have a cruxifix either only image of Jesus is with the holy family statue . we've onbly a cross no stations etc.
we are not conservative or librel and to be a catholic does not require one to be either or  Thanks be to God .
We are a real catholic church and it is full of real catholics
I'm so glad it is not a golden church and just a small mission church
one is not better then the other one is not more real then the other .
Go where you are closest to Him and your family grows etc. be it a rc Europen church or a rc chinese church etc.
we are orthodox aboriginal rc just as real as any other catholic church Thanks be to God for that 
Your sister in Christ , Roxie
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LisaR
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Rox, do you have a link to your Church?
are you aboriginal as in Austrailian?
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sewcrazy
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Our town has 2 parishes. The other parish built a new church within this decade that has the most peculiar "crucifix" I have ever seen. The cross itself is made of wavey copper sheets and a "resurection" Jesus hangs in front of it. We call it the jumping Jesus. The entire thing is suspended on wires, and when the fans are on, they sway.
But the entire church is a bit ... weird. The baptismal font is a giant tile mosiac ball in the middle of the center isle with the water constantly spilling over it onto the slate floor. So it is never quiet in the church. There is no tabernacle in the church, it is in a side chapel. The stain glass behind the altar is the "Tree of Life" with ugly khaki green abstract leaves. I can't go to church there. I am just too distracted by everything going on. Awful and immature of me, I know, but I just can't get past all the stuff.
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Angie Mc
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For me, the question at hand is about whether a US parish is being obedient. In the US, as of 2002, there are clear and specific directions about the proper use of the crucifix. If my parish was not following these directions (which it is,) I would want to know if the Bishop had given explicit approval and if there was a plan in place to bring my parish into accordance with these directions. Knowing this information would help me to be at peace and to be patient because, just like in a family, change can take time.
Love,
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MarilynW
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florasita wrote:
Our church does not have a cruxifix either only image of Jesus is with the holy family statue . we've onbly a cross no stations etc.
we are not conservative or librel and to be a catholic does not require one to be either or Thanks be to God .
We are a real catholic church and it is full of real catholics
I'm so glad it is not a golden church and just a small mission church
one is not better then the other one is not more real then the other .
Go where you are closest to Him and your family grows etc. be it a rc Europen church or a rc chinese church etc.
we are orthodox aboriginal rc just as real as any other catholic church Thanks be to God for that
Your sister in Christ , Roxie
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Dear Roxie
I am sorry if I implied that I was used to a very ornate or rich church. I think what shocked us was the total absence of even an image of Jesus or the Blessed Mother. And the fact that it was not a monetary issue as the church building was very ornate in other ways. When I was a child my parents worked in a third world African country - we had a very rustic church - but the most beautiful wooden handcarved African depictions of Jesus and Mary were everywhere.
And just to clarify - by liberal or conservative - I am not using these politically - rather more or less faithful to the Magesterium of the Catholic Church.
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Helen
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Angie Mc wrote:
| For me, the question at hand is about whether a US parish is being obedient. In the US, as of 2002, there are clear and specific directions about the proper use of the crucifix. |
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I always thought that both a crucifix and Stations of the Cross are required in a Catholic Church. They don't have to be large or ornate.
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florasita
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Marilyn . I too know better then partake in anything political  as I've specifically been told not too I am weak and get sucked in at times .
I also have issue with some who believe in being blindly obedient not thinking we can quetion when in fact as His children we are asked to question .
Blind obedience led to the policy ( a very real document )of hiding people who have abused children and the existence of residential schools . People in referring to obedience often are wishing to a retrun of the church of the 30'4 40' & 50's beleiving this is the one and only way the church is to be . That is not obedience and can be very difficult to discren .
Yes it upsets me the labeling etc. who is a real or not a real catholic who is good who is bad etc.
we are all catholic ,all in love with Him and we are all catholic because we are loved not because we are bad lately I've really realized I am probably not a roman catholic but just an orthodox catholic more so aboriginal than roman . Am I still a catholic ? I think it is best I leave it up to Him in the end not even rome can tell me for sure
When I am confused by rome and the hypocritoical issues I just turn to the ones He gave the church to in the first place go back to the beginning . I do not feel I am any less than but rather very real in the end sitting at His feet with the apostles . Who I don't recall being roman either but truely real catholics
I had a little old philipino man telling me I was not to wear just my plain cross but rather a crucifix he said the plain cross was evil . It turned out he was really an evil presence placed before me . I did switch images and it was not good at all I went back to my small silver cross miraculous medal and garabandal medal ( of course I lost them all this summer  at the beach ) but he was definately a block to me and as soon as I prayed to Our Lady Guadalupe & ST.Michael this man disappeared which is wierd because I had to deliver flyers in his mailbox once a week .
You would love the church where my mother lives it still only has an outhouse and is not heated .
I did post on our blog
some pictures of our parish . It is really going tthrough hard times and may close yet . If so We will be in search of another small church . Our Lord really wants adoration to come to our parish however people are caught up in being important and it is a shame to see a parish become very lost and distracted . Even priests have ego and human weakness imagine that
really I need to get these kids watching little house and I am voting today ( Canada ) for Mother Teresa another person asked not to partake in politics
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folklaur
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I really, really have to ask, tho of course I am thinking it is probably stupid of me to do so. But I am going to anyway, because it seems everyone else does...
I know many of you don't like certain depictions of Jesus. Me, either, and I agree that there should be a crucifix. But...how can you say things like "touch down Jesus" and "Blast off Jesus"? Doesn't...I mean, don't you think that is being...disrespectful? I kind of cringe when I see it written...
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LisaR
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cactus mouse wrote:
| "Blast off Jesus"? Doesn't...I mean, don't you think that is being...disrespectful? |
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we have never spoken IRL in those terms, except to ourselves. honestly there have been a few depections of Jesus that we have encountered over the years that it is all we can do to keep from bursting out laughing, but we do not want to cause scandal or distraction to others IRL so we have kept our comments just between husband and wife.
kind of a choose your battles type thing, kwim??
I was just sharing with you all here what we've nicknamed the most peculiar and imho, disrespectful depictions of Christ we have seen.
if there is an obligation to provide a crucifix in the Church, it is like an artist thought "hmmm, what is the furthest from a traditional, lifelike crucifix image I can think of? yeah, that will really get their attention!!"
but I will admit that dh and I also do not care for the blond blue eyed Holy Families (statues, images) out there either. We have many Lebanese friends, and our kids know that they are pretty close to what the Holy Family looked like.
lastly, lest you think that blastoff jesus was bad, in poor taste, we also have attended a parish with a lollipop procesional cross, (no corpus) and I am not kidding you, the colors, the swirls, etc, the INTENT was to make it look like a lollipop. kind of crazy, but you could not miss it processing down the aisle...
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folklaur
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LisaR wrote:
| we also have attended a parish with a lollipop procesional cross, (no corpus) |
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Oh, my.
If there was no corpus, then I just don't feel the same way about it, iykwim?
I'm sorry if I offended you,
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LisaR
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cactus mouse wrote:
I'm sorry if I offended you, |
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oh you did not at all. you know me better than that Laura
It really just was not Jesus up there to us, and I suppose it is disrespectful to the artist, (to say blastoff) but then again there is some really blasphemous art out there that claims to be "christian".
I also wanted to mention that we are pretty guarded about making a "deal" about any of the externals of a church if they are not tasteful to us, to our children.
I like to focus on the positive and also I don't want to raise a bunch of critics.
Even in the most modern of Catholic Churches, usually there is something that can be educational/uplifting/or of interest.
Now, if we are somewhere where there is a question about the validity or licity of the Consecration, etc., that is another matter, and very serious.
I have read quite a few comments over the years that many of the "traditional" "conservative" looking Churches we see from centuries ago in Europe, were quite the scandal when they were erected in their time.
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Angie Mc
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florasita wrote:
| I also have issue with some who believe in being blindly obedient not thinking we can quetion when in fact as His children we are asked to question . |
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Hi Roxie, since I'm the one who used the word obedience, I'll clarify. You are right, our Church never requires blind obedience. Yet in this topic we are talking about being directed to have a crucifix in our church. To my understanding, there would need to be a very pressing reason not to have one and this reason would need to be approved by a Bishop.
florasita wrote:
| lately I've really realized I am probably not a roman catholic but just an orthodox catholic more so aboriginal than roman . |
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Thank you for clarifying, Roxie. This About Us document, On Matter of Faith, shares more on how all 4Real members can be respectful when discussing topics so close to our hearts.
Love,
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aussieannie
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florista wrote:
| Yes it upsets me the labeling etc. who is a real or not a real catholic who is good who is bad etc. |
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I don’t believe that this ‘labeling’ as you may call it, means we have necessarily judged hearts.
This liturgical issue aside.
I speak for myself here – I sincerely believe in the saying, “But for the grace of God go I.” I do not think myself better than anyone who differs with me on anything – I will defend what I believe to be true because truth matters. But I do not personally think myself better than that person because I know that with the same graces and lights that that person has I would probably not live up to them in the way they have, or if they are not living up to them, I would fall in a worse way. I believe this.
That is why I can look at Joe Bloggs down the road and not think myself better because he could be responding better to the graces that God has given him than I do to mine. The trouble is with knowing truth (a freely given grace from God) and being given the fullness of truth in the Catholic Church, I am a more answerable, so that is why I worry about my own soul at the end of the day and not others (subjectively speaking.) Objectively speaking we are to make judgements and we make them everyday in every sphere of life. Because I make an objective judgement does not mean I think myself better than the people involved.
I may label someone's actions, so that good can come from defending what is right and true but I do not label their heart, I leave that to God.
My father taught me this, and while I do not live up to his beautiful standards and sayings the way I should, which makes me sad, I know he was a very humble and beautiful soul.
I have strayed off topic to answer this point but I think that on a Catholic mother's forum we must surely know that by defending what our Church teaches or it's liturgical rules, does not mean we have in our hearts, placed ourselves on some sort of pedestal.
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florasita
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Yes truth, however Fr. Pinto has said truth when really in truth there is no need to defend merely speak the truth no defence is necessary more often then not in regards to truth .
Most often when defence is needed it is regarding opinion . I've really found this to be true .
ps. Lisa I'm sorry our church no longer has a website . We no longer have a secretary etc. it has really fallen since our wonderful priest left just over a yr. ago . We are a Canadian aboriginal catholic church Blessed Kateri service sometimes in cree or objibway or french when an oblate shows up that is We absolutely love it . please please pray for our parish if you find the time via Kateri would be nice
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donnalynn
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I don't understand - either a Roman Catholic Mass in the United States is supposed to have a crucifix present or not.
This doesn't seem to be a matter of opinion at all - if I went to a Catholic Church and there were no images of our faith - I would notice - it would stir me to ask hmmm....why? is this ok? is this a good place for my children?
It is not a matter of being a conservative or liberal...I know for me it is the desire to conform my will (voluntarily, out of love) to the desires of Holy Mother Church. It is because I do not want it to be about *my opinion* that I too, would ask, if I were in a similar situation.
Then having an answer I would be able to form a judgment or opinion in *truth*. I understand what others are trying to say - I don't go around trying be *more* Catholic than anyone else but I do want to know what the Church wants for her children. If there are "options" I want to know what they are - then I can consider what would be best for our particular family.
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JodieLyn
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Quote:
| either a Roman Catholic Mass in the United States is supposed to have a crucifix present or not |
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Excellent point Donna. And apparently the answer is here.
Quote:
General Instruction of the Roman Missal ( http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/current/revmissalisromanien.sht ml)
Chapter V (http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/current/chapter5.shtml#sect3)
The Arrangement and Furnishing of Churches for
the Celebration of the Eucharist
II. Arrangement of the Sanctuary for the Sacred Synaxis
(Eucharistic Assembly)
308. There is also to be a cross, with the figure of Christ crucified upon it, either on the altar or near it, where it is clearly visible to the assembled congregation. It is appropriate that such a cross, which calls to mind for the faithful the saving Passion of the Lord, remain near the altar even outside of liturgical celebrations. |
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florasita
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I thought I should also clarify our parish is alligned with rome and the Roman Pontiff I also wished to clairify I am not Orthodox but rather as in orthodox rc however I do see we hopefully one day can just be called an aboriginal catholic church same as the ukranian catholic church which we have many of here in our city as well .
This has been interesting topic on images etc. I watched a great doc. 2yrs ago on the saints and relics how a church was not officially a church unless it actually held a relic within the structure . However this eventually led to stealing of bones etc. from churches and huge ransoms never mind people pretending to have relics just in order to receive money . Evetually the requirements were changed who knows to what but I informed dh if I ever were to be a saint no one is getting my bones
I've got to now finish up this last moccassin for our moccassin draw Have a great night
your sister in Christ , Roxie
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Stephanie_Q
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JodieLyn wrote:
Quote:
308. There is also to be a cross, with the figure of Christ crucified upon it, either on the altar or near it, where it is clearly visible to the assembled congregation. |
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I have been in many churches that have the required, albeit small, crucifix on the altar, which makes it not clearly visible to most of the congregation. I have noticed this in particular when the main cross is empty or has a figure of the risen Christ on it.
cactus mouse wrote:
| But...how can you say things like "touch down Jesus" and "Blast off Jesus"? Doesn't...I mean, don't you think that is being...disrespectful? I kind of cringe when I see it written... |
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I heard the phrase "touchdown Jesus" for the first time, recently, while some guys were watching a Notre Dame game. I felt the same way...
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Church without a crucifix?!!
