4Real Forums: Germany declares war on homeschoolers

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Topic: Germany declares war on homeschoolers

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guitarnan
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Posted: Sept 13 2008 at 2:04pm \| IP Logged

I actually didn't say that Italians were more modest, just that 1) they dress for their climate in the way they've chosen to and 2) that doesn't mean that they're more promiscuous.

I've never been grabbed by an Italian man (even when in my 20's, and even after living there 5 years) and I would venture to say that the "machismo" attitude there would prevail regardless of what women wear. That is certainly true in many countries where people don't dress much differently than here (e.g. Mexico, where it's so bad that women are demanding single sex buses, according to the New York Times) or in Muslim countries like Egypt (where women are routinely accosted, per a news report I read this week).

Even the toga-wearing Romans had no problem with bathing in groups (single sex) and they certainly had problems with immoral behavior, from emperors on down.

What I was trying to say is, it's very difficult for us as Americans to judge/blame others for their attire or to get inside their heads to discover why a certain culture behaves a certain way. I lived in Italy twice and feel I know the two communities I lived in pretty well, but I also know that northern Italy operates completely differently than the south does (where I lived).

I know full well the influence of secularism on countries around the world - particularly those places I've lived, but I would never write Germany or Italy or anywhere else off as totally secular. I have devout friends in both countries and they're certainly not the only ones there.

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CrunchyMom
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Posted: Sept 13 2008 at 2:44pm \| IP Logged

guitarnan wrote:

I know full well the influence of secularism on countries around the world - particularly those places I've lived, but I would never write Germany or Italy or anywhere else off as totally secular. I have devout friends in both countries and they're certainly not the only ones there.

I am sorry if I came off as writing everyone in those countries off as totally secular. I would also make a lot of general judgments about secularism in American, and yet I know that virtuous people like the families represented on this board exist. I also didn't mean to imply that they are necessarily more promiscuous than Americans--simply that I don't think their practices should be seen as "innocent" because they are the cultural norm there. I would wager that a low cut, revealing top has the same purpose there as here--not just something worn to stay cool in the summer. I just don't believe that dressing less modestly, public bathing, etc... is less "wrong" because it is seen as the norm there. It is rapidly becoming the norm here--including co-ed dorms and bathrooms on college campuses! This is frightening--it just hasn't reached our high schools yet!

I do think that, in general, given the ideas expressed that Germans view us as Puritanical and also given the laxer laws regarding pornography, the more rapidly declining birth rate, and the much lower church attendance, it is fair to say that the decline into secularism in these countries is at least somewhat further along than it is here in our own.

It seemed that people were defending the German schools practices as something that might be seen as "merely cultural" so it wasn't "as bad" for there to be co-ed locker rooms there as it is here. I just mean that, since practices like that are apparently seen by many in these countries as acceptable, it is due to a decline in morality and rejection of Christian virtue(that seems to be happening worldwide--even in countries that had previously resisted such secularization).

ETA: I'm pretty sure that we agree more than disagree. I'm not sure that I am expressing myself well.

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