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JodieLyn
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As I mentioned above.. I figure I was partly raised by my grandmother.. she was my babysitter when I was little. And then we shared a small farm (just raising for ourselves not to sell) my mom and her parents. And then grammy moved in with us after grampy died.
There is just soooo much stuff now.. and I have seen it in both my grandparents (mom's parents) that they would save things.. I don't think grampy ever threw away a nut or bolt or anything like that.. he had all sorts of containers that he'd sort them into and you could often find whatever you needed to replace something by looking through grampy's things.
But they learned to save like that when there wasn't much stuff, when it was harder to come by, when if you didn't save it there was zero chance to replace it.
When I really look at things like the little house books.. one of the chores was sweeping out the house.. that house was smaller than my living room and there wasn't anything laying around that had to be picked up first.
So somehow there's got to be a way to reconcile the saving tendency with a minimalist ideal.. and reduce the amount of work.. I figure reducing the work would allow for time just as other things would.
But as far as the school work.. I have a friend who works on a timeline for each of her children.. and the one that wants to go into the army asap has a different educational plan than the one that wants to be a doctor.. so you only do the full on college prep type stuff with those that will need it.. and because they'll need it.. they should be more motivated to do it.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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MacBeth
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Cay's post made me hungry. 
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MacBeth in NY
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lapazfarm
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Cay, I think you are spot on, that we need to be careful not to romanticize those times. If I had lived back then I would have been dead at the birth of my first child (emergency c-section).
But I do think that there MUST be some cause of SO many people longing for simplicity. Something about human nature rebels against the hustle, bustle, and clutter of the modern world. This is nothing new, of course. Wordsworth said it best, I think, over 200 years ago:
The world is too much with us; late and soon,
Getting and spending, we lay waste our powers;
Little we see in Nature that is ours;
We have given our hearts away, a sordid boon!
This Sea that bares her bosom to the moon,
The winds that will be howling at all hours,
And are up-gathered now like sleeping flowers,
For this, for everything, we are out of tune;
It moves us not.--Great God! I'd rather be
A Pagan suckled in a creed outworn;
So might I, standing on this pleasant lea,
Have glimpses that would make me less forlorn;
Have sight of Proteus rising from the sea;
Or hear old Triton blow his wreathed horn.
And if, in the late 18th century Lake District the world was "too much with us", then how much more so here and now in the USA?
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
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guitarnan
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Cay, I am glad you posted. I envy your time interviewing your Cajun family members...especially after my Acadian Coast trip last month. Those cultural roots run deep and wide, really they do.
I talked with my dh's grandma many times, and her life was really difficult by any generation's standards, but she was a joy-filled person who always felt that good things were just over the horizon, and she was ready to appreciate them because she already knew what hard times entailed.
I think what many of us seek is a time when it was OK to be religious, to be spiritual, and to make the most of our resources without having someone label us as "counter-cultural" or worse. When Laura Ingalls was young, having parents who valued religion and education was seen as desirable, civilizing and forward-thinking. People like Pa wound up on the school board and became (as Pa did) justices of the peace. They were trusted.
Don't we all long for times like those? Times when we could live out our faith and be honored for it?
There may, in fact, be more value in being ourselves, in our time, but it's way harder to live out our faith in many respects.
Still, WWCD? Caroline would say that she would only set out her beloved china shepherdess in a real home, not a make-do home. There's a sense of feeling settled that she knew, and that Military Mom Me really appreciates. Some places are homes and others are not.
Caroline would look for the best each place had to offer. She would find a church and sign up for Sunday School. She would encourage her girls to make friends. If no friends were within walking distance, she would distract her girls and help them practice skills they would need later in life (sewing, babysitting, public speaking, teaching each other...).
I think we can all learn from Caroline. I feel as though I know her, through Laura's writing, but perhaps I missed something important (our homily yesterday was about how our priest had missed essential ties between the loaves and fishes story and the verses that came before it, Herod's ill-fated banquet with Herodias and Salome...).
So...maybe we can share the Best of Caroline...just in case I missed something really important?
Caroline Ingalls is a role model for mothers in all times. What do her life and her example tell you about motherhood and about marriage?
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Cay Gibson
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MacBeth wrote:
| Cay's post made me hungry. |
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Oh, heavens! for what?
Brownies (with or without nuts) or a soybean sandwich with lard for mayonnaise?  
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
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Natalia
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"Por Favor paren el mundo nos queremos bajar" that is Spanish for "Please stop the world we want to get off". It is a song by a Spanish group Mecano that has been on my mind lately as I try to stop the world around me so that I can catch my breath and enjoy life.
We definitely live against the current. I feel that I am frequently swimming up stream or trying to get up on the down escalator. And sometimes I get so tired...
I do want a simpler life but sometimes I think it is impossible unless you isolate yourself. I don't mean to sound negative. I do think that there are things we can do to simplify our lives but I don't think we would ever be able to go back to Caroline's time- like one of my uncles used to say "eggs will never again cost a penny" and I think our lives will never be simple again. And on that note I will go to bed 
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http://pannuestrodecadadia.blogspot.com
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Bookswithtea
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I guess what I was getting at is that I resent the pace of our life today, the complexities of our culture, the expectations placed upon parents...Every child must go to college, every little girl must have had ballet or gymnastics (or whatever) in her childhood, blah blah blah. I resent that the gov't doesn't trust parents so I have to do things I think are ridiculous (like pay attention to what time it is when my kids want to be outside for a few minutes).
I am constantly amazed by Amish culture. They manage to teach their children what they need to know, academically, by the 8th grade. Their teenage boys get to work side by side with their fathers and the men of the church at same age when my teenage boy has to do geometry and paper writing. Their girls are learning the skills I want mine to learn when mine will be...again, learning geometry and paper writing. Their entire culture supports this type of lifestyle.
I think our culture has come to worship academics, as if the smarter and more educated one is, the more likely one will be happy and successful in life.
guitarnan wrote:
I think what many of us seek is a time when it was OK to be religious, to be spiritual, and to make the most of our resources without having someone label us as "counter-cultural" or worse. When Laura Ingalls was young, having parents who valued religion and education was seen as desirable, civilizing and forward-thinking. People like Pa wound up on the school board and became (as Pa did) justices of the peace. They were trusted.
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This is only part of it, but it reminded me of a thought I had when I was reading aloud Blessed Imelda to my girls last Spring. I was struck by the options this family had. In their culture, it was good and right to be holy and religious. It was understood and appreciated. In our culture, we want to raise good and holy children, but at the same time, we *also* have to make sure they are culturally relevant enough to not be ignored by larger society (otherwise, who will listen to what they have to say???). In American parishes, a woman with a head covering is most often scoffed. A woman who wears skirts most of the time is assumed to be either a fundamental baptist or a polygamous Mormon. Its frustrating to me. My dh bemoans the fact that he can make more money with a desk job when he'd rather be cutting sod into a field or pasture and chopping wood in anticipation of the winter. Most of the time I don't think about it, but sometimes it gets me down.
If I had my druthers...school would not take the bulk of our day. Household chores would get done well. We might do history once a week or even less, and maybe we would just pick something like "the kings and queens of England" to study for a year. It wouldn't matter if the child was 16, because transcripts would not be a big deal. Math would not have to be daily because knowing the basics and some consumer math would be acceptable. Kids would read in the evenings, or sew or embroider or whittle, or play the violin.
The literacy rate was higher in Colonial America than it is right now. Significantly higher. And even today, the average Amish kid graduates from an Amish one room schoolhouse with all the math basics and business math as well...by the 8th grade.
I'm rambling now...
I love my country, but today I resent the pressures put upon families for their kids to know so so much, and how much under the microscope we are.
There's nothing to be done about it. Its one of those "Bloom Where You Are Planted" moments, and I will probably get up from the computer and spend some time thinking about things I do like about our times, like antibiotics and air conditioning.
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and  due 9/10
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CrunchyMom
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Part of what also struck me about the original post that is probably off-topic at this point is that the mother in Pocket Full of Pinecones only had 2 children to your 6! Big difference even just in terms of the amount of laundry she had to do.
However, like you, I've always thought that I must spend as much time or more on our tons of laundry in my indoor automatic washer and dryer as the Ingalls did washing their two outfits and handfull of linens and dishcloths by hand.
And yes, Caroline Ingalls has been a definite role model, though I must admit to loving Jo in Little Men a lot, too. Caroline is beautiful in dealing with her lovely girls, but Jo helped me adapt a similar mentality to dealing with my rowdy boys. Plus, she was definitely a rebel in her time in a way Caroline Ingalls didn't have to be since she was so isolated. Though, there were still times when she had to shield her girls from the world!
Granted, Caroline Ingalls is based on a real life person; so, perhaps emulating her seems more realistic, but Jo sure does give great inspiration for the kind of education and upbringing I would like for my boys to have while seeming to balance (or rejecting) more of the obstacles I feel I have today.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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amyable
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This board always has a knack for talking about what's already going on in my head.
What I've been mourning lately is the loss of passed down wisdom, the way I feel I have to fly blind all the time. Not only do I *not* know how to raise children in general being the youngest of two and not seeing other parents "parenting", I don't know how to raise a large family *at all*. I think there is a lot to be said for having seen in one's culture growing up: disciplining, teaching, homemaking for a crowd, cooking, fight refereeing, gardening, cloth diaper using, canning, etc - whatever! I'm making it all up as I go along, and boy do I find it stressful - especially because most of what I am doing is scoffed at by my community. 
ETA: because I didn't make my point very well
I think in the Ingalls' time, there was more of an idea of an "accepted" way to do things, and you were taught it or saw it being used in other families...so your responsibilities as an adult came more naturally.
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Amy
mom of 5, ages 6-16, and happy wife of 
The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
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nissag
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I like nuts in my brownies, Cay. And you're a lovely nut. Thank you for sharing your grandmother's story with us. I wrote a column a few months back about simplicity and its NOT meaning ease. My experience of long talks with my granparents (I was blessed indeed) was very much what your grandmother told you. Life wasn't easier, but it was simpler. Work, pray, love. That's it.
Books, I'm with you. I have the same wishes. It's hard to get to the point at which societal pressures and opinions no longer have meaning or importance to us. For me, that came when I was pregnant with Will. There was so much negativity about the size of our family, our "uber-catholicity", our decision to homeschool. Finally I just realized that I'm not doing any of this for anyone but God and what He has asked of me. In the end, He's who I have to answer to. Other folks are answering (hopefully) their special call. I'm going to live my calling my way. And my way is much slower, and probably very backwards to most modern folk. When I had this epiphany, I was also blessed with a wonderful confidence, without defensiveness, to speak to people cheerfully and intelligently about our lifestyle. I found I won more hearts that way than when I was timid.
Having said that, I still have trouble with the bustle around me. I still have to ask people understand our pace of life when our differing lifestyles intersect. But that's part of what our family is being asked to do. Thanks be to God.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, just live your heart's desire. You are a wonderfully wise woman and your kids will inevitably be relevant enough to speak with confidence and love about their upbringing and values. I'm sure there will be wonderful fruits as a result.
Blessings,
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Nissa
Deacon's wife, mother of eleven, farmer, teacher, creator, cook.
At Home With the Gadbois Family
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Mary G
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Boots,
I read Debra Bell's Ultimate Guide to Homeschooling to get me revved up to start planning this year.
One thing that she said that really should resonate on this thread is that:
WE WILL NOT TEACH OUR CHILDREN EVERYTHING. NOPE, NO WAY. All we can do is teach them HOW to learn so that they can always find the answers when they need it.
This is how Caroline taught the Ingalls' ... just teaching them how, not what!
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MaryG
3 boys (22, 12, 8)2 girls (20, 11)
my website that combines my schooling, hand-knits work, writing and everything else in one spot!
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Cheryl
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I know when I read Pocketful of Pinecones last spring, it made me think about my ideal homeschool. It will never be as simple as the one in the story because mine will have an infant, a toddler and an extra school age child in the mix. I also have a very social dh who enjoys being busy and I've recently realized that we know a lot of people (many more than was possible for Carol in the book to know.)
But besides these things, I think much of the differences between my life and that dreamy life are a result of my own choices. I've chosen to live in a huge home, in a neighborhood, to have a van and an SUV, to own lots of furniture that needs to be dusted, closets that need to be organized, etc. I have a TV that I sometimes veg in front of, a computer that's like a magnet to me, loads of books to pick up at any time and I am afraid to tell my extended family to limit their material gifts to my children. I also purchase things that my dc don't really need. I choose to be part of the shopping culture. My dh always says that we are way more simple than "most people", but that's not really saying much nowadays.
I choose to talk on the phone with my friends when I could be outside with my dc. I make spreadsheets and documents for too many things. I choose to blog. I worry about math curriculum. I probably overplan history and science. (And probably literature and music appreciation and this year PE .) I don't have enough discipline to stick with our routines. I'm not sure if that would have been the case if I lived in the 30's. I know they didn't have the temptations we have such as Applebee's, Friendly's, The Ninety-Nine, etc. We seem to have many more distractions to avoid.
I posted here on my blog last spring about slowing down. I haven't changed much since then. I did some purging. I'm planning on dropping the homeschool gym & swim class this year. I think the process of being less cultural is one that will be very gradual for me. I grew up in a typical American home and so did my dh. I think that making drastic changes would be too scary for us. I also think that rants can be helpful in finding out what you really want. 
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Cheryl
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Mom to Matthew 13, Joseph 11, Sarah 10, Rachel 6, Hannah almost 4 and Mary 1
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Natalia
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Quote:
| In our culture, we want to raise good and holy children, but at the same time, we *also* have to make sure they are culturally relevant enough to not be ignored by larger society (otherwise, who will listen to what they have to say???) |
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To me that is the key point, I want it both ways because, as you said, I want my kids to be culturally relevant. I want them to be counter-cultural but I don't want them to be odd. I don't want them to be dismissed because they are so different that people can't relate to them.I guess I can't get passed the fact that whether I want it or not, society still influences my choices- and sometimes I resent it.
I guess what I am trying to say is that I share your feelings but, truth be told, I don't want to live in any other century. I like to be alive now, But I do mourn for the lost of simplicity. I don't have to go very far in time. Life was a lot simpler in the D.R. during my childhood than it is here-right now.I can feel it (the loss of simplicity) more keenly now that my dd is older when it is difficult to get the family together because of her outside activities. Or every time we have to buy clothes and I realize that the culture around us does not support our lifestyle. This is the part I find more difficult. It takes a lot of energy to be counter=cultural. It takes a lot of discernment. Probably I am the only one here that instead of wanting to be born in another century, sometimes feels "I wish I could be like everyone else". It would sure be easier!
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crusermom
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I would like to be Caroline Ingall's - but with access to the internet!
When I was a little girl, I wanted to be Laura. When the tv series came out, I spent the whole day at school thinking about it. I couldn't wait. After dinner, my brothers announced they wanted to watch sports. We took a vote. Ten brothers. One tv. No Little House on the Prarie for me. Ever. I bought the series on DVD for my girls.
It is too bad that we have so many expectaions put upon and that we put upon ourselves that we don't seem to have the time they had to enjoy
family.
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Bookswithtea
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Mary G wrote:
Boots,
I read Debra Bell's Ultimate Guide to Homeschooling to get me revved up to start planning this year.
One thing that she said that really should resonate on this thread is that:
WE WILL NOT TEACH OUR CHILDREN EVERYTHING. NOPE, NO WAY. All we can do is teach them HOW to learn so that they can always find the answers when they need it.
This is how Caroline taught the Ingalls' ... just teaching them how, not what! |
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Hmmmmmmmm...how does that work with math and science in the high school years? I think I'm going to start another thread on how versus how much...
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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Elizabeth
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CrunchyMom wrote:
Granted, Caroline Ingalls is based on a real life person; so, perhaps emulating her seems more realistic, but Jo sure does give great inspiration for the kind of education and upbringing I would like for my boys to have while seeming to balance (or rejecting) more of the obstacles I feel I have today. |
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Jo was a real person too, and I honestly re-read Jo's Boy's and Little Men in the summer for inspiration. I'd love for my home to feel like Plumfield. Caroline always wanted school for her girls. I wonder how she'd feel about them being day students at Plumfield?
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Bookswithtea
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I was thinking this morning about the stories of our grandmothers. Its just anecdotal, but I've talked a lot with my grandma, who is...I think, 85ish? She is my hero, and when I grow up, I want to be like her. Her mind is still sharp as a tack, she reads constantly, and she emails, too.
She was raised riding bareback and drinking raw milk on a farm in Illinois, and went to school in a one room schoolhouse. She also went to college and became an RN in the 40's, I guess it would be? She and my Grandpa farmed and raised their children in South Dakota, after he returned from WWII, and she worked nights to help out at the local hospital. She says the old days were better, in most ways. But she is awfully grateful for commercially canned goods, too. I told her recently that we got chickens, and she told me they got rid of theirs at one point on the farm because they brought cholera with them.
I had a long talk with her about the 50's once after watching the movie Mona Lisa Smile. She disagrees with the premise that women were bored in the 50's, which led to the Feminist 60's. She's a very conservative Lutheran and tends to blame new age/secularist ideas more than appliances and convenience foods.
I suppose a 100 gramma's would have a 100 different opinions...and they'd all still be based on experience.
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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Kathryn UK
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Books, you make me feel old ... my mother is in her 80s. If she were still alive my grandmother would be well into her 100s! I've never asked my mother whether she feels the old days were better. Perhaps I should.
For myself, I have never had any desire to live in an earlier time. I'm too grateful for proper plumbing and modern medicine. There are many things about the past that I'm glad I have not had to deal with. My father remembered my great-grandfather saying that when he was a child (1880s?) they were so poor that only skimmed milk kept them alive. I glad I never had to live through the fear and sorrow of World War II, and that I was not part of the lost generation of World War I - all those young men killed, and young women condemned to life as spinsters because there were no young men to marry. I'm glad I don't have to worry about my children going hungry, or dying of diphtheria or polio.
Nissa, I'm afraid things in England have probably changed since you were here ... or maybe it is just that Newmarket is exceptionally quiet . We are in a Home Counties market town and have 24 hour supermarkets and busy traffic well into the evening. Sundays are still quieter than other days, but the Sunday trading laws were relaxed some years ago. In our town the larger shops all open, and in the larger town 20 minutes away everything is open on Sundays. I have never visited the US, but from what American expat friends have told me it does seem that there is more social pressure in the US. Not sure why that is ... maybe a higher tolerance of eccentricity in the UK?
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Kathryn
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CrunchyMom
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Elizabeth wrote:
CrunchyMom wrote:
Granted, Caroline Ingalls is based on a real life person; so, perhaps emulating her seems more realistic, but Jo sure does give great inspiration for the kind of education and upbringing I would like for my boys to have while seeming to balance (or rejecting) more of the obstacles I feel I have today. |
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Jo was a real person too, and I honestly re-read Jo's Boy's and Little Men in the summer for inspiration. I'd love for my home to feel like Plumfield. Caroline always wanted school for her girls. I wonder how she'd feel about them being day students at Plumfield? |
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Who was Jo based on? I always thought she was like Louisa herself, but Louisa never married, right? Am I completely confused?
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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nissag
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Kathryn UK wrote:
Nissa, I'm afraid things in England have probably changed since you were here ... or maybe it is just that Newmarket is exceptionally quiet . We are in a Home Counties market town and have 24 hour supermarkets and busy traffic well into the evening. Sundays are still quieter than other days, but the Sunday trading laws were relaxed some years ago. In our town the larger shops all open, and in the larger town 20 minutes away everything is open on Sundays. I have never visited the US, but from what American expat friends have told me it does seem that there is more social pressure in the US. Not sure why that is ... maybe a higher tolerance of eccentricity in the UK? |
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 I figured that things might have changed. We're approaching 11 years since we lived there. I'm a little disappointed. We did have a fairly large Tesco's (I think it was) on the outskirts of town. Still, Saturday Market day was the bees knees as far as we were concerned. We shopped on Base for most of our needs, and got other lovely things on the market and at the local butcher. Oh, those Newmarket sausages...
I definitely agree that there was far less social pressure than there is here - at least in the part of England we lived in. No one seemed to care what we wore, or drove, or where we lived. It simply didn't matter. I miss it. The peer group we have here in the States really focuses heavily on material wealth, worries over appearances. It's awful.
Blessings,
__________________
Nissa
Deacon's wife, mother of eleven, farmer, teacher, creator, cook.
At Home With the Gadbois Family
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: I think I was born in the wrong century..
