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Bookswithtea
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Those of you who have 5 and more children who are schoolaged, do you mind sharing a peek into your experiences and some words of wisdom? I've been struggling to plan for 5 who need focused "schooltime" all summer long. They range in age from a Sophomore to a 3 yr old with speech difficulties who needs more time than my other 3 yr olds have needed in the past. This is very different from the 4 and less I've planned for in the past. It feels chaotic. I am having a hard time with it all, and I confess, I am dreading the start of the schoolyear. I'm working like crazy to dejunk and simplify our life as much as I can, knowing that 5 who will be schooling and 1 who will be crawling and probably walking before Christmas is going to be an enormous challenge for me.
Its not the number of children, per se. Its the number of students. I'm wondering if my days of not schooling in the summer are over...maybe its not possible to get it all done from Aug-May? I'm wondering if my more CMish plans need to give way to more workbooks for awhile? Or if I am just trying to accomplish too much? Or maybe I won't be able to have my youngers done with school by lunch anymore, which has always been a priority for me so that I can focus on the littles and laundry in the afternoons (along with activities for the olders).
I dunno. I just have this feeling that its not going to work, the way we've done things in the past. I could use some help from moms of many school aged children...
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~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and  due 9/10
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Martha
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| Posted: July 10 2008 at 8:31am | IP Logged
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Well...
I think you need to look at your work load and prioritize it.
Pull out the materials you have for each grade.
Write down how often you'd need to do each item every week. A grid works for me, M - F columns at the top, material down the left, and I just "X" how often I'd need/want to do it.
Do this for each child.
Only the areas of most difficulty should get 4 or 5 Xs below 5th or 6th grade.
There is nothing wrong with having materials for some subjects that are not absolutely CM style, esp if the child still learns from them, it easies your burden, and encourages self-learning. For me, this is especially true for my older children. For example, I might choose a math text they can use pretty much on their own, but do science very CM or unschool style.
Group subjects together when possible. We always study the same subjects for history, science and faith. Just expect more of the olders. My youngers aren't even given science and history as subject - they absorb plenty being around the older siblings, reading on their own, and life in general. Often older siblngs will share their knowledge with younger siblings without prompting.
For the youngest children, I'd drop all but the the top 2 or 3 priorities. For example, my 7 yr old is doing 3rd grade math, so I'm not going to push that at all. She's happy with her MCP workbook and goes her merry way with little help from me. But she really needs to work on her confidence in reading and writing skills. (She can do it but just doesn't think she can!) So reading/writing and catechism are my only focus for her this year. This isn't really that big a deal. I plan to set about 30 minutes aside in the evening for her to read to me and leave love notes for her around the house. 
My oldest children do almost all their materials on their own. We discuss a LOT in history, science and faith. I review and make suggestions for improvement. We wrok together on special projects in history, science, and faith as the kids or I feel inspired. Quite often they'll read something fun to do and just go do it themselves in the garage or backyard. If your oldest children are not already doing their work independently for the most part, then I'd look for ways to make that easier for them and you.
Anyhow. That's what I do
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Martha
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10 Bright Stars
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Martha,
I really like your idea of a visual chart with x's on it! I noticed yesterday that drawing what had to be accopmplished actually helped me!! I made a stick figure of the child in question with the paper sideways. They, I drew big circles of weak areas and areas of strength etc. that didn't need help. I made a bubble for the classes that the child had to have me help with and a bubble for the areas they could mainly work on independently. For some reason, I had to giggle at myself that a drawing helped. (I was thinking about those computer drawings you had to do in school prior to actually programming WAAAAAAAY back in "Basic" programming. )  Whatever works, huh? I like the x's though.
Books,
I had a long talk with my husband yesterday who manages big programs at work and has to do this sort of thing all the time. He said the difference between immature managers and the more seasoned managers, from which he is learning, is to see the "big picture" or landscape of the program as opposed to a linear "path". The ones who just write down a series of "plans" sort of like our lesson plans tend to get all messed up if something interferes with the way they set it up etc. The "landscape" managers tend to see the big picture and when artilliary hits in the bigger "field" they can see the whole area and access it from a broader perspective etc. (My husband works in defense! Can you tell by his imagery??) Anwyay, all he said really made sense and I actually took notes! I am probably messing it all up.
His point was that if all of my lesson plans never work, and I feel "lost" by the first week or two because there are 5 children with 5 different lesson plans with about 13 subjects each.....I mean, that is a crazy amount of stuff to plan and keep up with, and we haven't even talked about real life yet, other smaller children. It IS too much.
So, yesterday, I tried to come up with a plan for what the minimum or most important thing for each kid/class was. In science, I made a short list of all the basics to be covered. What did they HAVE to know by the end of Religion class this year? If someone was having a lot of trouble with spelling, obviously that needed to go to a priority list. I tried to see the BIG picture for each kid and not get lost in all the 1,000's of details just now. Character issues came up. If the siblings are fighting, what am I going to DO about it? Things like that.
So, maybe it would help you to take a step back before you even start the nitty gritty of planning to see the BIG picture. Where is each child. Where do you want them to go this year? If you get sick, have trouble with the little ones, what can the older children do as a "mom's busy plan".
I am also going to make checklists for the older kids as least, but maybe the little ones too in some different form. We have trouble around here with some of the kids having NO sense of time or accountability. "Who CARES if I finish my math?", one child seems to say since he never finishes it! This may be a side tangent, but in making my BIG PICTURE plan yesterday, when I took note of this child's persistant weakness in this area across the board, THAT in itself becomes a high priority or my schooling with him is doomed to failure even with the grandest of plans. See what I mean? If you have a landscape view of your school year, you may see that naptime is the best time of day around your house, or early morning before everyone wakes up. Why not stick a class there for the child who needs one on one time like the 3 year old with speech problems. Things like that may "appear" when you try to go up on a mountain and get a good look! When we are in the tall grass with all the decisions we can't really see where we are going and what needs to get done etc.
Does this make sense???
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Kim married to Bob (22y)
Mom of 11 blessings:
Bobby 19, David 17, Noah 14,
Mary 12, Gracie 10,
Isabelle and Sophia 8,
Gabrielle 6,
William Anthony 4, Joseph 3 and Luisa Marie - born in M
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Martha
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| Posted: July 10 2008 at 10:41am | IP Logged
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It made sense to me.
If anyone is interested, I have my checklist/X forms done on excel (remember I'm the spreadsheet queen! ) and I can shsre them later today if anyone wants an actual form to fill out kind of thing.
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Martha
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Bookswithtea
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Kim, that makes a lot of sense, and I am printing out your post to consider your dh's thoughts more deeply. My plans in the past have worked well...they generally don't fall apart on me, but I have this feeling that because of the sheer bulk of things that need to be accomplished that its just not going to be as simple.
Martha, I appreciate your thoughts on sticking to essentials with the littlers. I have a tendency to worry a lot about history and science (Bridget's been helping me with some different ideas for science in another thread). My kids do work independently and are used to following daily cross off lists. We've been doing that for years. I've already grouped everyone together where I can (my kids are not as close in age as some families which makes this a bit stickier).
Still pondering...
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~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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10 Bright Stars
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| Posted: July 10 2008 at 11:23am | IP Logged
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I'd love to see the spreadsheets, Martha!
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Kim married to Bob (22y)
Mom of 11 blessings:
Bobby 19, David 17, Noah 14,
Mary 12, Gracie 10,
Isabelle and Sophia 8,
Gabrielle 6,
William Anthony 4, Joseph 3 and Luisa Marie - born in M
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monique
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Eight Wonders wrote:
| I'd love to see the spreadsheets, Martha! |
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 Me too!
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Monique
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Martha
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okay PM me with your email addys and I'll send them via attachment. they are on excel spreadsheets, so you should be able to modify them to suit your own needs. you can use it for planning
you can print assignment checklist for individual students
and it doubles as a simple attendance record too if you want it to.
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Martha
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Martha
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oh I just figured out how to get a picture of it on my blog, if you want to see it first?
you can save or use it, but it'll give you an idea of what it looks like.
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Martha
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Becky Parker
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Thanks Martha! This spread sheet could really streamline my planning!
Kim, your post really makes sense, I just need to figure out how to apply it. I can tell you must be a visual learner! I love the stick figure idea!
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Becky
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asplendidtime
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Thanks for the very helpful ideas Martha!
Books I too am finding myself with 5 students this year, It does feel like a big leap all of a sudden, but then it will be 6, then 7, then 8....  So I need to get a grip on this. Thanks for this thread.
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Rebecca~Mama to
Noah 17,
Katie 16,
Mary 14,
Tim 13,
Jonah 12,
Josh 10,
Zoe 9,
Will 7,
Peter 6,
Laura-Mae 4,
Emily-Joy 2,
Genevieve & Gabriella 1
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missionfamily
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Rebecca--Just an off-topic note to say that William Wesley is SOOOOOO cute!
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Colleen
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10 Bright Stars
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Becky,
I didn't even KNOW I was a visual learner, but it all did seem to click. Probably Grace too. I have been begging God to help me get a GRIP on all of this since it seems insurmountable.
Rebecca,
I was thinking about your post and the other morning I woke up and was chatting to my husband about how old all the other kids will be when the twins are in 2nd grade. (You know, the grade that REALLY starts to matter.) Anyway, I will have a Kingdergartener, 2 second graders, one 4th grader, one 6th grader, one 8th grader, one 10th grader and one Senior that year!!!! I think things are tough NOW!! I have THAT ahead of me! I couldn't even bear to look. Point is, I better figure it out while I can.
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Kim married to Bob (22y)
Mom of 11 blessings:
Bobby 19, David 17, Noah 14,
Mary 12, Gracie 10,
Isabelle and Sophia 8,
Gabrielle 6,
William Anthony 4, Joseph 3 and Luisa Marie - born in M
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Martha
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Eight Wonders wrote:
I will have a Kingdergartener, 2 second graders, one 4th grader, one 6th grader, one 8th grader, one 10th grader and one Senior that year!!!! I think things are tough NOW!! I have THAT ahead of me! I couldn't even bear to look. Point is, I better figure it out while I can. |
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Aack!!!!!!!
Well if we're goign to freak out, I'll join.
This year I have the following grades:
8
7
5
4
2
K
prek
a 2 yr old
and a newborn 1/2 way throughthe year.
BUT when my oldest is a senior in highschool I'll have:
12
11
9
8
6
4
3
1
pre-k
and who know how many littles there might or might not be?
Oh. My. Goodness. I have no idea how to wrap my brain around teaching NINE different grade levels at once. Where's the chicken running around with it's head cut off smiley? 
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Martha
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Erin
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Books
I've been pondering for a few days on how to answer you, I well know the feeling you are experiencing. In fact it took me along time to adjust to the change from a few students to many.
I currently have 5-6 students.
9th grader
7th Grader
5th grader
3rd grader
1st
Preschooler
and add in a toddler and in 11 weeks a newborn (haven't even begun to think about a new baby  )
What I found the hardest in some ways wasn't the sheer numbers, although that didn't help, but the age spread, when my oldest started being at a different stage, needing more extension. I really,really had trouble adjusting to the loss of everybody working together, learning together. I no longer am the hub  they don't all come together and listen to mum do all the history read alouds etc, the three oldest often have their own assigned reading and are happy doing it whilst I work with the three youngest.
It took me a good year (or two) to get over my mourning and to adjust (I'm a little slow). And yet now I see different benefits, in many ways independent work is a good thing for them to do, I am consciously focusing on preparing them for higher education/the workforce. I am ensuring that they are learning time management skills that they certainly didn't have before, and accountability (still working on that one )
By having the three older ones becoming more independent I am able to focus on the next three who were neglected in some ways. BTW my 5th grader is my 'model student' everything he is assigned to do he does, he would easily devour 80 books a term (10 weeks), but there is no way his older brother (the 7th grader) could have done so at his age, in fact he still can't.
I haven't had to change our CM approach, we still do a very heavily influenced literature based approach, we haven't resorted to textbooks except for the two highschoolers for science, and even then it is a living book type science.
Perhaps you do need to cut back in some areas, that is hard to letting go I know. I've come to realise that the basics are the most essential, to read, write and spell well are essentials for me. To be well grounded mathematically, and to know and love their Faith. Ideally I want all my children to love reading. If they have that they are equipped for life. This has become my particular focus for the primary years, in highschool they can delve more into the sciences etc. However if they are already reading lots then they have covered much. Remind yourself of the one-room school houses who I daresay are better educated even than our children, they were grounded in the basics and then only a few quality books were used. It's all they had.
Kim's husband has much words of wisdom, sounds like my husband and his whiteboard. Kim did your husband whip out a whiteboard marker and start diagramming on the whiteboard whilst you were conversing? Mine would have But he is correct, often we get bogged down in the details, but really we should take a step back and look at the BIG picture. Good reminder for me.
On the practical side, how do I make it work? Well I stumbled for a long time but have finally found what works for us. Our weekly expectation sheets have freed up my head, no longer do I have to juggle in my memory who has to do what, it has reduced having six children ALL clamoring at me at once, all wanting me  thank goodness  it has helped my dc see clearly what they have to do, there is no confusion, it is all spelled out very simply, it has allowed my dc to take control of their own learning, they control what they do when, they are learning to budget their time, they are learning accountability, it has taken away that 'schooly' feeling which was happening and made learning seem more natural again, which means alot to the children and I. I am no longer feeling trapped, I am enjoying learning/teaching again.
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Erin
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Martha
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Erin wrote:
I've come to realise that the basics are the most essential, to read, write and spell well are essentials for me. To be well grounded mathematically, and to know and love their Faith. Ideally I want all my children to love reading. If they have that they are equipped for life. This has become my particular focus for the primary years, in highschool they can delve more into the sciences etc. However if they are already reading lots then they have covered much. Remind yourself of the one-room school houses who I daresay are better educated even than our children, they were grounded in the basics and then only a few quality books were used. It's all they had.
On the practical side, how do I make it work? Well I stumbled for a long time but have finally found what works for us. Our weekly expectation sheets have freed up my head, no longer do I have to juggle |
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I completely agree! 
That's how I use my checklists too!
It's such a relief to be able to just say, "Look at your list." and check it when they've done it.
They still come to me with questions or whatever, but they are really aware of what their education is.
For the younger children, it's nice for me to be able to look at it so I remember my priorities with them too. They are so excited to see story time with mom on their clipboard. Even if they can't read, it doesn't take them long to know that "story" begins with an "s".
I also use a checklist to keep track of teacher stuff.
I just finished my american history checklist for next year. ONE form that says what chapters need to order videos from Netflix or books from the library and what craft, memorization, or field trip I need to plan for. I tell ya - lists make me ridiculously happy. 
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Bookswithtea
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Erin wrote:
I've been pondering for a few days on how to answer you, I well know the feeling you are experiencing. |
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Thank you, Erin. This is really helpful.
Erin wrote:
| I really,really had trouble adjusting to the loss of everybody working together, learning together. I no longer am the hub they don't all come together and listen to mum do all the history read alouds etc. |
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You know what? It took me a long time to get over the change from all elem. students to having a high schooler, too. I felt like I was in mourning. I hated that I couldn't just spend the day at the park and call it good anymore.
Erin wrote:
| Perhaps you do need to cut back in some areas, that is hard to letting go I know. . |
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Yeah...This is where I am feeling the Holy Spirit is leading me, and I am having a hard time with the transition. I made plans that I thought were relatively simple, ended up pitching them all in favor of something simpler, and would you believe, I feel like God is still saying, "Not simple enough!" I guess I should clarify that none of this applies to my high schooler, who is completely independent and follows his syllabi without any help from me. Its about the rest of the gang. It feels so WEIRD to me to focus on the basics and let the rest go. Your reminder about 1 room schoolhouses is excellent. They were well educated. Did you know that in Colonial times in America, the literacy rate was 90 something percent???? And all they used were those McGuffy Primers and slates!
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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Erin
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I received this email the other day regards the time of one room schoolhouses, it really made me think, I can assure you that my 8th grader would not pass this exam.
8th grade exam from 1895
Remember when grandparents and great-grandparents stated that they only had an 8th grade education? Well, check this out. Could any of us have passed the 8th grade in 1895?
This is the eighth grade final exam from 1895 in Salina, Kansas, USA. It was taken from the original document on file at the Smokey Valley Genealogical Society and Library in Salina, KS, and reprinted by the Salina Journal.
8th Grade Final Exam:
Salina, KS, 1895
Grammar (Time, one hour)
1. Give nine rules for the use of capital letters.
2. Name the parts of speech and define those that have no modifications.
3. Define verse, stanza and paragraph
4. What are the principal parts of a verb? Give principal parts of "lie", "play", and "run."
5. Define case; illustrate each case.
6. What is punctuation? Give rules for principal marks of punctuation.
7 - 10. Write a composition of about 150 words and show therein that you understand the practical use of the rules of grammar.
Arithmetic (Time, 65 minutes)
1. Name and define the Fundamental Rules of Arithmetic.
2. A wagon box is 2 ft. deep, 10 feet long, and 3 ft. wide. How many bushels of wheat will it hold?
3. If a load of wheat weighs 3942 lbs., what is it worth at 50cts/bushel, deducting 1050 lbs. for tare?
4. District No 33 has a valuation of $35,000. What is the necessary levy to carry on a school seven months at $50 per month, and have $104 for incidentals?
5. Find the cost of 6720 lbs. coal at $6.00 per ton.
6. Find the interest of $512.60 for 8 months and 18 days at 7 percent.
7. What is the cost of 40 boards 12 inches wide and 16 ft. long at $20 per meter?
8. Find bank discount on $300 for 90 days (no grace) at 10 percent.
9. What is the cost of a square farm at $15 per acre, the distance of which is 640 rods?
10. Write a Bank Check, a Promissory Note, and a Receipt
U.S. History (Time, 45 minutes)
1. Give the epochs into which U.S. History is divided
2. Give an account of the discovery of America by Columbus .
3. Relate the causes and results of the Revolutionary War.
4. Show the territorial growth of the United States .
5. Tell what you can of the history of Kansas .
6. Describe three of the most prominent battles of the Rebellion.
7. Who were the following: Morse, Whitney, Fulton, Bell, Lincoln, Penn, and Howe?
8. Name events connected with the following dates: 1607, 1620, 1800, 1849, and 1865.
Orthography (Time, one hour) (Do we even know what this is???)
1. What is meant by the following: alphabet, phonetic, orthography, etymology, and syllabication.
2. What are elementary sounds? How classified?
3. What are the following, and give examples of each: trigraph, sub vocal, diphthong, cognate letters, and lingual.
4. Give four substitutes for caret 'u.' (HUH?)
5. Give two rules for spelling words with final 'e.' Name two exceptions under each rule.
6. Give two uses of silent letters in spelling. Illustrate each.
7. Define the following prefixes and use in connection with a word: bi-, dis-, mis-, pre-, semi-, post-, non-, inter-, mono-, and sup-.
8. Mark diacritically and divide into syllables the following, and name the sign that indicates the sound: card, ball, mercy, sir, odd, cell, r ise, blood, fare, last.
9. Use the following correctly in sentences: cite, site, sight, fane, fain, feign, vane, vain, vein, raze, raise, rays.
10. Write 10 words frequently mispronounced and indicate pronunciation by use of diacritical marks and by syllabication.
Geography (Time, one hour)
1 What is climate? Upon what does climate depend?
2. How do you account for the extremes of climate in Kansas ?
3. Of what use are rivers? Of what use is the ocean?
4. Describe the mountains of North America
5. Name and describe the following: Monrovia , Odessa , Denver , Manitoba , Hecla , Yukon , St. Helena, Juan Fernandez, Aspinwall and Orinoco .
6. Name and locate the principal trade centers of the U.S.
7. Name all the republics of: Europe and give the capital of each. 8. Why is the Atlantic Coast colder than the Pacific in the same latitude?
9. Describe the process by which the water of the ocean returns to the sources of rivers.
10. Describe the movements of the earth. Give the inclination of the earth.
Notice that the exam took FIVE HOURS to complete. Gives the saying "he only had an 8th grade education" a whole new meaning, doesn't it? This also shows you how poor our education system has become... and,
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Erin
Faith Filled Days
Seven Little Australians
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Bookswithtea
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Along these same lines, Erin, I had an opportunity 2 summers ago to talk with an amish schoolteacher. She is a one room schoolhouse teacher to a people who have fought for the right to only offer education through the 8th grade. She had textbooks out and took any number of my curious questions. It was just my family and my sil's, and they also hs so she felt comfortable speaking freely.
I asked her, knowing that her schoolroom (only 2-4 families, total, I think) was more efficient than a public school, if it is really comparable to an 8th grade education. She laughed and said that their 8th grade math book is comparable to an early college level business math text.
I keep asking myself what they (one room schoolhouse folks) did that made their education so superior to ours. I am thinking they focused strongly on the basics, used practical ways to practice those basics (like the math questions above), and then just studied a few time periods well, rather than all of them, not-so-well.
But they didn't have someone over their shoulders expecting as much as we are expected to communicate to our children, either. Or maybe I'm imagining that?
I'm trying to take Kim's dh's thoughts into account and ask myself, "What do I want my children to know" long term? Besides the basics, I want them to be comfortable talking about Shakespeare if that's what people are talking about. They don't have to know every Greek god, but if they hear a reference, I hope they will at least think, "Oh yeah, I kinda remember that story." I kind of doubt that physics and chemistry will come up in polite discussion unless one of them is geared that way and has friends with the same interests. Then again, I wonder if the chem/physics crowd ever discusses Greek mythology or Shakespeare! I'm frustrated by the entire thing, and I can't tell if I'm making a mountain out of a molehill or if it really is a mountain and I'm pretending its a molehill. 
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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MarilynW
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| Posted: July 12 2008 at 8:50am | IP Logged
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Erin wrote:
Books
What I found the hardest in some ways wasn't the sheer numbers, although that didn't help, but the age spread, when my oldest started being at a different stage, needing more extension. I really,really had trouble adjusting to the loss of everybody working together, learning together. I no longer am the hub they don't all come together and listen to mum do all the history read alouds etc, the three oldest often have their own assigned reading and are happy doing it whilst I work with the three youngest. |
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Erin - you just experessed how I am feeling right now. My dd will be doing more work by herself - I have agonized over it - but it is the best thing for her. I am trying to make sure I get some time with just her - this will be for Confirmation reading/notebook and our home economics/management. She is very happy as she is very diligent and loves reading - it is me who is mourning.
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Marilyn
Blessed with 6 gifts from God
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: homeschooling 5 and more...
