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Elizabeth
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Jen L. wrote:
| Just want to add that my brother (who is a Catholic Campus minister priest) feels strongly that involvement in a good (i.e. faithful, orthodox, active) Catholic campus ministry at a secular school can work fantastically for a student's journey of faith. |
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I'll vouch for that and her brother. Best bargain in town 
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Maria B.
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cactus mouse wrote:
| My one concern, my main concern, for my dd, is she said to me, in a moment of unabashed honesty, "I am afraid that I will stop going to Mass, that I won't be as strong in my faith if I don't go to Benedictine." |
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This is a concern I have as well with my next child coming up to the college age. She is strong in her faith now, but that is with a ton of family and friend support. Sending her off to a secular college scares me. I know a lot of this involves my faith, trust and confidence in her, but the reality is, I am still concerned.
Also, many Catholic Campus ministries are not great. I went to a Virginia state college and the campus ministry was awful. I dreaded going to Mass, but went out of obligation.
And even if a campus ministry is good, my child has to choose to become a part of it. This child is very shy and very private about her faith. I worry about her not choosing to seek out the support. Whereas if she went to a good Catholic college, it would be more natural and easy to be involved with other Catholic students, activities, etc.
I am sort of rambling, but would love to hear from others about these concerns.
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Maria in VA
Proud Mom to 10 Great kids!
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Jen L.
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Elizabeth wrote:
I'll vouch for that and her brother. Best bargain in town |
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Am I allowed to blush for my brother? (because in real life i just did!)  
Thanks for your kind words, Elizabeth 
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Jen
dh Klete,ds (8/95),dd (12/97), dd (11/00), and ^2^ in heaven
"...the best state in which to glorify God is our actual state; the best grace is that of the moment..." St. Peter Eymard
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MaryM
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Angie Mc wrote:
| Do you know if there is direct information on how Catholic colleges compare in their aid packages? |
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I am not aware of any sources doing that specifically for the Catholic colleges (though it may be included in the info in the Catholic college selection book mentioned above - at least for those specific colleges). The general college guides have financial aid info and you can compare there. Princeton Review and Peterson's Guide are two well known providers of college review information. Both have a website for info or you can find their review books in the bookstore or library.
Every year in the fall, US News publishes an issue focusing on US colleges/universities. It is ranking what they feel are the best in different categories. They also do a nice job of including as one of their statistics for the college info on average % of a student's financial need that is met and the % of that financial aid that is non-loan based. That is helpful info because many schools will "meet" a students financial need, but offer it mostly in loans (not grants, scholarships, work study). The info on the website is just portion of what's in that issue since a lot of it is blocked online.
In the "Don't Pay Sticker Price" article you linked, Angie, there is a link to the College Board website. Our family has found that site to be very helpful for lots of college comparison info. On the website you can search individual colleges in their database. Once you find the college you are looking for, if you click on the "Cost & Financial Aid" button it will provide you with stats from the college. Note that not all schools report (or report all info) but these are the categories that are listed for them to provide stats. All helpful info if it is complete.
Financial Aid Statistics
Full-time freshman enrollment:
Number who applied for need-based aid:
Number who were judged to have need:
Number who were offered aid:
Number who had full need met:
Average percent of need met:
Average financial aid package:
Average need-based loan:
Average need-based scholarship or grant award:
Average non-need based aid:
Average indebtedness at graduation:
Angie Mc wrote:
| For those of you who have filled out this type of paperwork, do you have any words of advice? Any links that you have found helpful? |
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Also on the College Board site is this Expected Family Contribution (EFC) Calculator. It can give you a general idea of what the FAFSA will likely say is the family's estimated contribution. And practice in filling out forms. 
Angie Mc wrote:
| Yet, I'm wondering if a student who could get into MIT for engineering without a full ride might be able to get a degree at a lower tier college on a full ride? |
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Exactly - I feel that contributed to our experience which I mentioned above.
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Mary M. in Denver
Our Domestic Church
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Angie Mc
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Thank you all so much for contributing to this topic! It has jump-started our enthusiasm to reach our goal of debt-free college degrees.
Another reason we want to try this approach, is to be clear about what dh and I can and can't give and then to give what we can generously. I have strong memories of a lovely family who were friends of my family when I was growing up. One of their daughters at a young age wanted to be a veterinarian. Eventually the girl was sent to an elite university with one of the best pre-vet programs in the US. The parents borrowed against their home and who knows what else to make this happen. Then the dd changed her mind about the degree, stayed at the expensive school, got a generic business degree, and went onto less than lucrative employment. This caused so much strain on their relationships! The dd felt that the money for college was a free gift to do with what she wanted. The parents felt that they were paying to have a vet as a dd. Very hard!
As parents, we are not willing to go into debt for our childrens' educations. If there is any debt to be had, it will need to be theirs. We just hope that we can guide and support them in ways that help them to seriously consider the financial consequences of their choices.
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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Roma
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I am a long way off from sending a child to college, but I thought my personal experience might be of some inspiration.
My father worked in a high-paying field that left little time for family. He transitioned out of that as his faith grew stronger. My sister and I (2 out of the 5) affirmed this decision by acknowledging that we would end up paying for our own cars, insurance, college, weddings, etc... and yet we still wanted him to be home more. God provided! I ended up at a small private, Catholic college several states away. I found a job as a live-in nanny where my room and board was covered; I also earned a weekly salary. I arranged my classes around my job. I also worked other jobs on the weekend. The school at the time was 10,000 a year for tuition only. (I know that is not much now, but then it was.) The college allowed me to sign up for a monthly payment system. I came out with zero debt, and I was then able to afford to teach in a Catholic school that paid almost half of the public school. My father's peers all criticized his choices on the basis that he was ruining our chances for a future. Meanwhile almost all of my friends that had their tuition paid for either dropped out or did the 8-10 year plan ). I did take out 10,000 for my grad degree. I only took out enough for tuition. (My roommate took out tons more as living money  ) I paid it off in 5 years. I constantly tell my siblings that getting out of college with no debt is the best thing you can do to make living on one income easier.
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Angie Mc
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Roma, you have made my day...my week...my semester ! Wow, lady,  ...good for you!
You also bring up an excellent point that I've also pondered...
Graduate degrees may be the better investment today therefore worth, the debt if necessary. By the time most students enter a grad program, they have found their specialty, are older and more responsible. In some cases, they are more likely to be living on their own which can often give them access to better grants. I earned an M.P.A with grants that covered most of my costs (less living expenses.)
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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Roma
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Angie Mc wrote:
Roma, you have made my day...my week...my semester ! Wow, lady, ...good for you!
You also bring up an excellent point that I've also pondered...
Graduate degrees may be the better investment today therefore worth, the debt if necessary. By the time most students enter a grad program, they have found their specialty, are older and more responsible. In some cases, they are more likely to be living on their own which can often give them access to better grants. I earned an M.P.A with grants that covered most of my costs (less living expenses.)
Love, |
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thank you very much:)
a grad degree can be worth the money. it really depends. it has allowed me to keep my certification up in two different states without working.
i also wanted to add that the responsibility of paying my way has kept me out of debt in general. I did not have a car loan until I was 25 and finished grad. school. I paid the car off in two years. My DH and I lived of my income for the first 10 months of marriage. (My income was half of his). We put his into the mortgage. Our only debt is our mortgage. We still live off of 40% of his income and use the rest to bring down our interest on it. Whenever I look at anything that is financed I translate the price tag to add the interest paid over time. Meanwhile all my peers who had everything given to them are up to their ears in debt of all kinds and think of every purchase as how much it cost them that month.
I always saw it in this manner: If I stay out of debt, I am giving God the freedom to move me where He wants me and to take risks for His Kingdom: risks I couldn't take if I were tied to debt.
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Bookswithtea
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Great topic. I am in complete agreement with your concerns, Angie, and am often frustrated with the waste involved in 4 yr degrees. I had $10,000 in student loan debt when I realized God's call to be a SAHM. 
I wanted to second Lara's post from pg 1. We have the same plan to make sure that our kids all have a skill by graduation, so that they can choose community college for 2 yrs and pay for it mostly themselves. In our area, we have excellent county career centers, and they are available to homeschoolers as well as public schooled kids. Once accepted, they train for a specified skill for their junior and senior years, while finishing up the last two years of traditional academics at home (for us...ps kids finish theirs up at their local schools). Its *free* and they can come out of the program and take the boards for cosmetology, have carry over college credits for a culinary school, take the tests for a first level fireman, move on to the police academy with credits already in hand, get certified in auto body repair or car repair, welding, computer stuff, etc. None of this means the child has to stay in these fields, but they have options that many many high school grads don't have when they apply for jobs while attending college. I know state laws vary, but its something to consider if your state is open to it.
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~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and  due 9/10
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TracyQ
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Oh, I wish you all could have been at our local state convention this past weekend. It was incredible! Andrew Pudua was the main speaker, and this is exactly what his message was, how the world has made us slaves through the debt of college. He won't allow his kids to go to college and get into debt. If they have to take longer to go, and work first, then go, then work, then go, they do. He won't allow them to go into debt in order to go on to higher education.
There was SO much more to it, the conveyer belt educational system, christianity vs. the religion of relativism, etc. It was a HUGE eye opener to me, that's for sure, and I was truly blessed to hear his message!
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Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
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Lara Sauer
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Books with Tea, (which by the way, I love your "nom d'internet!"):
How did you go about finding these programs that you are planning on using. My oldest son has a natural gift for piano tuning since he has perfect pitch and I want to make use of this, so I am obviously pursuing that path for him, but as I said, I am not sure what path I will follow with my younger sons. I am in Virginia, so our "stars" may not necessarily align as it were, but I am looking for other avenues to search out different paths for them.
On another note, I want to second Andrew Pudewa's sentiments on college debt. I was speaking to my eldest son about this only yesterday. I can't help but think that there is a "breath of Satan" in the push for "higher education at whatever cost" because the kids "deserve it." Our poor children are becoming indentured servants to their own education. And the most miserable thing is that we have never been so "highly educated" as a society with such little authentic wisdom. I want my children to be able to graduate with their bachelor's degree ready to enter whatever vocation in life that God is calling them to. I have some dear friend's whose eldest daughter was married last year just before both she and her husband started their senior year of college. They were blessed with a baby this past May, and although my friend's daughter graduated with no debt (fortuitous planning on the part of her parents!) her husband had some terribly structure debt and now finds himself with about $90K in student loans...all for a bachelor's degree. They will be paying out over $900 per month just to cover INTEREST! And now this poor dear girl, rather than being able to enjoy the gift of her early motherhood is trying to find out ways that she can help add to the families income so as to bring down their debt...this is NOT what I want for my kids!
GREAT TOPIC!
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You can take the girl out of Wisconsin, but you can't take the Wisconsin out of the girl!
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TracyQ
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Lara Sauer wrote:
Our poor children are becoming indentured servants to their own education. And the most miserable thing is that we have never been so "highly educated" as a society with such little authentic wisdom.
GREAT TOPIC! |
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Lara,
What an incredible statement here you have made!!! I'm saving it! And what an excellent concrete example of what is happening to many people just beginning their lives! Wow! Wow! Wow!  Thanks so much for sharing this.
Tracy
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Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
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Angie Mc
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TracyQ wrote:
| Oh, I wish you all could have been at our local state convention this past weekend. It was incredible! Andrew Pudua was the main speaker, and this is exactly what his message was, how the world has made us slaves through the debt of college. ! |
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Cool, Tracy. Do you know if his presentation is available on CD?
Love,
__________________
Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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Mare
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I encourage you to continue thinking along the debt-free college avenue. I’m a product of a debt-free living childhood. It was one of the best gifts I’ve received.
My parents didn’t go to college b/c they couldn’t afford to go. I was told from 8th grade on that if I wanted to go to college, I’d have to pay for it myself. If I didn’t, then that was fine but I would be expected to pay for room and board if I lived at home following high school graduation.
One night at the beginning of my junior year of high school, my dad and I sat down with a spread sheet and looked at the numbers for a college education paid in cash versus borrowing money for the degree. It was enough for me to say no way to borrowing money.
I did commute to a local state college and was active in my home parish as well as the Newman Center. I paid my way through 5 years of college. (I was a dual major.) It was not easy like when everyone else is going out to “party” but I had to work. Yet, it also was a blessing because I had a very good excuse as to why I couldn’t go to certain parties. Working kept me focused and out of trouble. It helped me to use my time wisely too.
Following graduation, I got a job as a preschool teacher. I lived at home for a year to save money. Meanwhile, I was also paying for room and board. I moved out when I had a decent amount to fall back on and I shared a townhouse with another Catholic single woman for a few months. Six months later, I had enough money for a down payment on a condominium. It was a dream for me. (Unbeknowst to me, my room and board money was being invested by my parents. At settlement, I received that money from my parents to be used for a sofa which we still have today.)
My dh also comes from a debt-free childhood. He had no college loans following him into our marriage either. It has been a huge blessing in so many ways. I'd take up too much space here if I shared all the blessings. On the other hand, it has not been easy either especially in the early years of our marriage. The little green man popped up often. I saw people spending and spending and we were saving and saving when I would have liked to have spent a bit.
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JennyMaine
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I haven't read the thread, just your initial message.
I just graduated with my BS. Granted, it took me 20 years! LOL But I did it without paying for a single class. When I was 20 I finally decided that I should take some college classes. I took on a full-time job working at the local university and used my tuition benefit to take 2 free classes per semester. I did this for several years, until I decided to stay home with my first baby.
At this point, as a divorced single mom of two, my pell grants covered the final courses I needed to complete my degree. I will be completely honest with my kids as we plan for their future. . .I cannot help them pay for a college education. They will have to achieve this on their own.
My parents were also very limited financially. Their three children all have college degrees, one has a Masters. They were unable to help us with even one dime toward our education. Ultimately, I really think that was a good thing. We worked hard for our degrees and do not take them for granted.
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--JennyMaine, Mom to Catherine (17) and Sam (15) "The countenance is a reflection of the soul. You should always have a calm and serene countenance." -- Therese of Lisieux
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Angie Mc
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Thanks for sharing your experiences, Mare and JennyMaine!
Don't Get Over Your Head in College Debt by Mary Hunt, of Debt-Proof Living.
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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Angie Mc
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Here's more from Mary Hunt:
Dear Mary,
I'm 28 years old and my husband and I have a $48,000 a year income after taxes. I am currently in college and taking out student loans. I am in the process of paying down some other debt and will be done with all debt except student loans and the mortgage before I finish school. Should I start paying off my student loans now, even though I'm still taking them out, should I wait until my other debt is gone (in about a year) and then start making bigger payments on them, or should I start saving money now to pay for school in cash next year even though I have student loans this year? Elizabeth B., email
Dear Elizabeth,
You need to be doing both. The loans you have already taken, but on which you are not required to begin paying, are accruing interest each month. Because you are not paying that interest (and are not required to), it is tacked onto the loan amount, causing your loan to grow month after month. Think: compounding interest. I recommend strongly that you begin paying the interest on all of the loans you have. It shouldn't be much, but this will keep your principal balances at no more than the amount you borrowed.
You also need to be saving cash, as you suggested, so you can start paying as you go. You don't want to come out on the other end with a degree and so much debt that you're worse off for having received your degree. I hear from many for whom that has become the situation and it is downright heartbreaking! I'm happy to know you are thinking about these things now while you still have options. Good luck!
*********
Love,
__________________
Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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Angie Mc
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From Laura in WI
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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Angie Mc
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Most Faithful Catholic Colleges Are Also the Most Affordable
Love,
__________________
Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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crusermom
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We are in the middle of this right now. I think the take home message to me is that you should not even worry about the price tag until you get a final offer from the college. Although a state school looks like a better bargain on paper, they don't have the funds to offer big scholarships. My son has an acceptance to a state school (just in case), but we are hoping to get some offers from some of the more expensive colleges he has applied to. Although, I would personally not mind him going to our state college - it has a great rep and a great Catholic center. (Texas A and M).
Our very limited experience with one faithful Catholic college that we love is that we are eligible for no financial aid at all. My son has applied to a few secular schools that look at our income and say we will be eligible for all sorts of aid. We haven't seen the bill yet, so it will be interesting. He also has a NROTC scholarship he can use - another way to pay.
I am very against any loans for college - I see too many people in my own extended family that use the loans as reasons they can't start a family or need to go back to work after a baby is born.
Mary
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Mary
Army wife and Crusermom to 8 wonderful children!
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4Real Forums : High School Years and Beyond
Topic: debt-free college degree?
