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Angie Mc
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cactus mouse wrote:
She really, really wants to go to Benedictine...My one concern, my main concern, for my dd, is she said to me, in a moment of unabashed honesty, "I am afraid that I will stop going to Mass, that I won't be as strong in my faith if I don't go to Benedictine." She said how Mass is just downstairs in her dorm there, and everyone goes, so she would feel funny NOT going. She said she feels she needs that peer pressure sometimes. She is afraid for her faith. What do I do with that?  |
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Looking at this from a debt-free perspective, I see your family doing two things. The first is trying to get a private college degree as debt-free as possible. *Please tell us more about how you found grants, etc.* The other is asking the question, is the cost worth it to provide this particular child with this particular experience? This is meaty stuff, huh?!
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Angie Mc
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MaryM
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Angie Mc wrote:
| It definitely dovetails with this topic because, under most circumstances, Catholic colleges cost more money than public colleges, making them more difficult to do debt-free. |
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Maybe, but not necessarily. It really depends on the college (endowments, location), the indivdidual student (credentials, circumstances) and other mitigating factors.
So I'll add a bit of our experience. Our oldest is going to a private university almost completely covered financially, but I'm not sure that there is something one can do to make this happen. I am also hesitant to contribute to discussion one this topic because, like Angie and Cay have found that people can be judgemental about college choices for Catholic students. Our son is going to a Catholic college that isn't on the "list" if you know what I mean - so I often feel judged about that.
Anyway, many private schools are very well endowed and actually can offer a lot in scholarships and aid in comparison to others. This particular university is well endowed, combined with a student who had top notch grades and test scores (he did attend Catholic HS - was not homeschooled those years so our expereince may be different a bit) so his aid package was excellent. Though our next son is a good student and tests fine - his grades/tests won't be over that threshold for the top money. Where that threshold is varies for colleges. For example with our oldest if he had looked primarly at some of the more elite schools which he would have been able to get into, his aid wouldn't have been as much - there are just too many students with the same credentials in competition. So he "tiered" down to a good but not top tier school and stood out more.
The first year he had tuition covered and all that needed to be paid for was room and board. We highgly encouraged him to consdier applying to become a Resident Assistant in future years (something both my husband and I had done in college). He did apply for it for his sophomore year and was selelcted. It pays room/board/stipend. He will continue that next year. It is a huge help and something he has enjoyed doing as well.
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MaryM
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Oh and I meant to say we have a homeschool friend whose son has a full tuition scholarship to one of the colleges on the Catholic "list" - and their story is basically one of prayerful faith. It is amazing how this fell into their lap as he is a good studnet and smart kid he didn't neccessarily have the top credentials when compared to his peers.
Angie Mc wrote:
| The other is asking the question, is the cost worth it to provide this particular child with this particular experience? |
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And this is a question that we are asking ourselves for number two. He really wants to go to FUS and we know that their aid packages are not very substantial - it is not a well endowed school and like I mentioned he is a very good student but not over the "threshold". Definitely debt would be incurred if he went here. But this would be a very good fit for him - so we struggle to discern.
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Angie Mc
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MarilynW wrote:
I live in an area where people claim they can only have a few children because of "college costs", where parents are pushing their very young children into competitive sports for sports scholarships etc etc and where so many leave undergrad and grad programs with huge debt over their heads...
When I was younger - all I wanted was an Ivy League education. I got a scholarship to a British Ivy League - but ended up turning it down - fortunately as I would never have met my husband. I had several years of college - and I am glad - but I feel that I only really started learning anything once I had children and also once I started homeschooling 
I hope I am not being "sacreligious" here - but looking in retrospect at the years of undergrad and postgrad - I think we have to figure out just how important is that college degree to our children and their goals. Does it matter if they go to a small local university or to Yale?
Just something to think about - I recently got news about some of the most intelligent and gifted friends I had from high school - Ivy League graduates could have done anything in life - but listening to how their lives have gone - away from the church, divorced, miserable, in debt despite very high paying jobs - made me think a lot 
Thanks for starting this thread Angie. I get the "how are you going to send all these children to college" question constantly - and sometimes I feel a little panicked by it. I am so looking forward to hearing what people have to say. |
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You are welcome, Marilyn, and thank you for sharing your experience. When dd was 2 I lived in Davis, CA, known for its "high percentage of the population with advanced degrees." Many of the moms there were "working to save for college" for their own children. Fortunately, I found some gem friends who were going a different route. One brilliant friend stayed home with her young children and wrote a book. These ladies completely valued their degrees and careers, but chose to stay home with their children. They did not define themselves by their (top-notch) degrees. They saw their degrees and the future degrees of their children as tools to help them to live family-centered lives. On the other side of the tracks  I know that many women in my working-class hometown work to save money for college to give their children a "better chance at life." I see this a lot with parents who didn't go to college and want their children to be the first generation of college graduates in their family (I was a first generation college grad. myself.)
From these experiences comes another *why* we want debt-free degrees. A college degree, now matter where it comes from, does not have the same level of "guarantee" for success as it did a few generations ago. For example, there was a time when the cost of getting an MD was worth it because as a doctor, you could rightly assume a certain level of income. No more. The power of insurance companies has literally changed the face of medicine, and its financial compensation. I know medical doctors who work two or more jobs to provide for their families and pay off their student loan debt. Yikes!
Love,
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MarilynW
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I am sure that I heard on the news earlier this year that Princeton was giving free tuition to students whose families earned less that $100,000 a year and free tuition and room/board to those families earning less than $60,000/year.
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MarilynW
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Angie - we were posting at the same time! I still get the 'what a waste of all those years of college" remarks. And I love the Catholic Exchange article you linked to Angie
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MarilynW
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What is the "list" - I did not go to a Catholic College - so I am out of the loop?
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Angie Mc
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stefoodie wrote:
| Angie, this article and this group may help (the group has been discussing the debt-free option recently). No time to write long, but I'm with you. Debt-free college is a GREAT idea. Be back later to read everyone's replies. |
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Awesome article, stef! It shares another reason *why* we have the goal of debt-free degrees...to help our children to see that living a financially sound life includes sacrifice and the paradox that in having/doing/spending less, we often find *more* contentment, purpose, and freedom!
I found the yahoogroup you linked to yesterday and was going to ask if anyone here was on it. Thanks for the recommendation.
I'm reading each post carefully and am combining the "how-to" strategies into one post. This will take me some time. Keep 'em coming!
Love,
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MaryM
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MarilynW wrote:
| What is the "list" - I did not go to a Catholic College - so I am out of the loop? |
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I was speaking a bit tongue in cheek here. There are probably a variety of "lists" depending on the person classifying the schools. Basically it would be the strongly orthodox schools (like TAC, FUS, Dallas, Ave Maria, etc.).
This is a recent publication that fleshes out some recommendations -Choosing a Catholic College.
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Angie Mc
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MaryM wrote:
MarilynW wrote:
| What is the "list" - I did not go to a Catholic College - so I am out of the loop? |
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I was speaking a bit tongue in cheek here. There are probably a variety of "lists" depending on the person classifying the schools. Basically it would be the strongly orthodox schools (like TAC, FUS, Dallas, Ave Maria, etc.).
This is a recent publication that fleshes out some recommendations -Choosing a Catholic College. |
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Here's another list.
Love,
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Tonya
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This is an awesome topic. We, too, feel that our children should not be burdened with great debt. Our oldest daughter desperately wanted to go to Franciscan. She worked very hard in high school to accumulate "post-secondary" credits, worked during college, and she graduated in 3 years with only about $7000 in debt. She just got a job with the University as an admissions counselor and now is eligible for free tuition to work on a Masters. She hopes to pay off her debt in a year.
My second daughter wanted to major in Piano (there are a lot of music people on this board!). She wasn't advanced enough get any conservatory scholarships and we were not going to let her go in debt for a degree in piano performance. She got some scholarships at a state school where she has flourished. She worked very hard and after a year she was offered a full-ride. So now we can start saving a little more for the next 4!
My daughter that goes to Franciscan knows people who have HUGE debts ($80,000 or more). I love the spirituality of Steubenville, I love what it has done for my daughter but I could never condone that kind of debt. My daughter did not go to Austria so that she could graduate in 3 years so she did make some sacrifices. My daughter that has gone to the state school doesn't have the access to the spirituality that I would like but she still has a firm foundation in her faith. Do I wish all of my children could go to TAC, Franciscan, or Christendom? Of course, but I don't think it is possible.
I have a question. Do you feel differently if a son accumulates debt? I hope my sons don't have too much debt but if they were working for a career that would in the long run pay off the debts I would be more likely to agree to it. For instance, I think it would be different for my son to get in debt to be an engineer from MIT than for my daughter to be in debt to go to New England Conservatory.
Very interesting thread.
Tonya
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Angie Mc
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Lara Sauer wrote:
I will have no problem with him attending a state school if he begins it at the level of a Junior. This will allow him to avoid dorm life entirely and to be in classes where the kids have turned their interests from partying to the real world.
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Which gets me to another reason *why* we want debt-free degrees for our children. The traditional package plan of entering college as an 18yo freshman, living on campus, studying for four years, and getting a degree, can be so expensive and include payment for things that we *don't* want. I'm leary about the pressure to provide a college "experience" for my children, whether it be at a private or public school. We feel that by setting the goal of being debt-free, if forces us to dissect the standard package deal and look for pieces within it of value and places that are not valuable to us. For example, the experience of dorm life does not rank high for us.
Love,
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Angie Mc
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Angie Mc
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Jen L. wrote:
| Just want to add that my brother (who is a Catholic Campus minister priest) feels strongly that involvement in a good (i.e. faithful, orthodox, active) Catholic campus ministry at a secular school can work fantastically for a student's journey of faith. |
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Yes, and like others have posted here and at the Catholic vs. Public college thread, it IS our student's responsibility to continue their faith formation in an active, ongoing, and steeped way (is "steeped" correct there...you know what I mean, I hope!) and it is our responsibility to set them up for success as best as we can. We can't cheap out of this! And we can't make assumptions. We need to do our homework and actively research our options...and pray that we can discern God's guidance. So what are our debt-free options? Members have shared that we can find a way to send our child to a top-notch private Catholic college. We can look for *gem* communities at private and public colleges. We can find a faith mentor for our child. We can house our children for some of the college years and integrate them into our ongoing family faith formation.
I would love to hear more about this and more about how we help our children to discern God's call in the midst of so many options.
Love,
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Cay Gibson
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I'm runnning today but got Kayleigh to take Chelsea to ballet so I had a real quick minute to check posts. It's always nice to "sit" for a minute with all of you. 
And I was wondering how many considered using an online college program? Certainly that is a possibility for staying debt-free.
We had a hs senior graduate this year and she had her party after the closing program for co-op. I spoke to her and she's using an online college program based in New Orleans (it's Protestant). She's a beautiful, lovely, faith-filled girl who is happy to stay home and get her college degree this way.
This is one of "my plans" for my younger dds. But my 10yr old wants to go to college "like Kayleigh".
So this is one of "my plans" which are not "her plans" and I'm not even sure it's "God's plans" for her life.
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Angie Mc
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lapazfarm wrote:
| We got our FAFSA report back a few weeks ago and I am still baffled by the numbers they think we can contribute. No Pell grant either. Not sure what it takes to qualify for that, but apparently supporting 5 children on an income of 50K doesn't cut it. |
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I dread the day of filling out all this stuff. I have a sinking feeling that our family will look fabulous on paper right now...but there will be no place to fill in "yea, we are doing fine now but this is a recent turn of events!"
For those of you who have filled out this type of paperwork, do you have any words of advice? Any links that you have found helpful?
Love,
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Angie Mc
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ALmom wrote:
I do think you have to look at the whole picture and some things do depend on the field being pursued - (both whether or not less expensive educations will suffice considering both spiritual and academic/career factors) and whether or not the field pursued enables reasonable expectations of payment at the end), the amount and terms of the loan and the reasonable expectation of being able to pay it off without burden. I also think that a child's sense of their vocation is an important factor here as well.
we are struggling with reality here in terms of music. We don't have the means to pay for expensive summer camps, nor can we afford the big schools that have the training. The University Schools of Music can only take you so far but Conservatories are through the roof and all are in very high cost living areas. I don't think we advised incorrectly starting out, but there are tough choices ahead. We are discouraging debt. It may be that she has to take some time off, work and get private lessons. I know that it will be a harder road for her. Is this a wall that is there because God has a different plan for her? If He does, he hasn't revealed it yet. Is it a test to strenghten her and toughen her for something down the road? She certainly seems to have the drive to want it badly enough. With all the discouragement, she has a few alternative plans in the works. |
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Janet, I have been following you and your dd's path for some time now  . From you and the other moms here, I have learned that there are definitely different considerations for students who are going into specialty fields, as compared with earning a generic B.S. or B.A. in , let's say Education (mine) or Biology (dh's). I do think the goal of a debt-free generic degree (dd is looking at English and Journalism) is more doable than the degrees in the fine arts, culinary school, and other avenues with limited choices.
You also mentioned location, location, location, in your post (but I forgot to quote.) For those of us who move around often, it can be very helpful to look at continuing education options in different areas and consider them when you plan a move. When we lived in rural/remote NV, we planned to move, in part, because there was no higher education option available. We knew that our children would need to go out of the area to go to college (or get a job, etc.) When we moved to PA, there were many colleges! When we needed to move from PA, we were attracted to Phoenix, in part, because of the state higher education system here.
Love,
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Angie Mc
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MaryM wrote:
Angie Mc wrote:
| It definitely dovetails with this topic because, under most circumstances, Catholic colleges cost more money than public colleges, making them more difficult to do debt-free. |
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Maybe, but not necessarily. It really depends on the college (endowments, location), the individual student (credentials, circumstances) and other mitigating factors.
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You are right, Mary. I googled for information about endowments and the generosity of schools. I found this helpful link. Do you know if there is direct information on how Catholic colleges compare in their aid packages?
Love,
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Angie Mc
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Angie Mc
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Tonya wrote:
I have a question. Do you feel differently if a son accumulates debt? I hope my sons don't have too much debt but if they were working for a career that would in the long run pay off the debts I would be more likely to agree to it. For instance, I think it would be different for my son to get in debt to be an engineer from MIT than for my daughter to be in debt to go to New England Conservatory.
Very interesting thread.
Tonya |
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Great question, Tonya (and I so enjoyed hearing about what your children are doing as young adults!) First, I would completely faint if any of my boys could get into MIT for engineering . Yep, if they could get into MIT for engineering, I'd sell the farm ! OK, OK, I need to settle down here...
I do see that agreeing to debt as a young man is different than that of a young woman when he sees himself as needing to provide for himself and his family for the rest of their lives. Yet, I'm wondering if a student who could get into MIT for engineering without a full ride might be able to get a degree at a lower tier college on a full ride? Does the MIT "brand" make that much of a difference professionally forever? I really don't know. In my dh's case, he did not get his Ph.D. from a top school, and it hasn't mattered one bit. He is at the top of his game now based on years of hard work, experience, grace (gosh the bragging wife! I just love him and am so proud of him!) and funny thing...about 2 years ago Harvard came courting for him to earn an MPH there and my dh turned them down  . Which gets me to another reason *why*...
God willing, our children will be blessed with long lives of learning. We don't have to fear that if they don't take the standard path to an undergraduate degree that they are somehow doomed. A debt-free goal may take them down an unusual path, but one that can just as easily take them to their goals...and goals that God hasn't let them in on yet!
Love,
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Cay Gibson wrote:
And I was wondering how many considered using an online college program? Certainly that is a possibility for staying debt-free.
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I would like to learn more about this, too. My dh is working on an MPH through an online university through the military. I've thought that these programs are expensive, unless an employer is paying for them. Anyone?
Love,
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Angie Mc
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Angie Mc
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How to options for a debt-free college degree (summary):
Look for scholarships.
Look into options through the military.
Look for college options that do not involve debt.
Parents can set a limit of how much they will contribute to college expenses, and encourage the student to make up the balance.
guitarnan wrote:
Dh hopes our son will pursue the same path he did, ROTC scholarships.
My parents encouraged us to choose college options that did not involve crushing debt, and I am forever grateful.
I think it's OK for parents to say, "We can pay X, but anything beyond that is up to you." |
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Maria B. wrote:
| Our first to go to college is at the Naval Academy. . |
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Look at your state and county higher education options for free money and savings plans.
Look at your community college options.
Have students communte from home.
Have student work while attending school.
Live debt-free as parents to have extra funds for college.
Earmark tax money for college funding.
Cay Gibson wrote:
I will say that we have it pretty easy and are blessed that Louisiana students can get a free college education if they score a certain score on the ACT. A homeschool student has to score 2 points higher though. 
Corey's high school education was geared towards applying for TOPS but he went into a technical school and work after graduating. He is now attending the local community college. He works full-time so he pays his tuition at the beginning of each semester. We buy the books. When he finishes each semester with passing grades, we reimburse him the money. Of course the money usually goes directly into the next semester but he's taking it very seriously. We've allocated income tax money for helping the children with college expenses.
They both live here at home which helps food wise and on living expenses but the colleges are 20-30 minutes away and we pay the gas. It'll hit home good when Kayleigh starts in the fall.
We're able to help mainly because we have no debt outside of our house note and dh's truck note. But, even so, dh works a lot of overtime to provide for the expenses.
Speaking of TOPS...I got to speak to a TOPS advisor all day at a recent conference. The money is there to better educate the citizens of that state and she assured me they have no alternative agenda but to give these children a better chance to improve their lives.
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Molly Smith wrote:
| a trend among our friends is for the kids to start off at community college for the first two years. It's a huge money saver, the kids live at home and they have jobs...I could see helping to pay for two years of community college, and the kids could save for those other two years (assuming that's their path) during high school and cc. |
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MarilynW wrote:
| The only saving for college I do is $25/month/per child to a VA College Savings plan. |
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Pay as you go along.
pipandpuddy wrote:
My older ones live at home and go to state colleges (10 to 30 minutes from home). I do not pay for their education; they work and pay for it themselves. I have always encouraged them to pay as they go, so that they are not saddled with debt at such a young age. Karen
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Look for what individual colleges offer.
cactus mouse wrote:
| She has gotten a lot of grants, scholarships from the college, etc, |
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Have a parent work at a college for tuition breaks.
chicken lady wrote:
We have been kicking around the idea of Bill to go to work for the university so our dc can go free (IF they want to  ).
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Ensure your child gains profitable skills while in high school.
Lara Sauer wrote:
It is my hope to include some type of employable trade as part of my children's high school curriculum. My oldest is in 9th grade, and he has been taking piano lessons for 5 years. When he is 16, he will begin to give piano lessons to the 10 and under crowd. Next year, he will also be apprenticed to a piano tuner friend of the family. He will be taking an on-line course to assist him in this endeavor. I am hoping to include that course work as part of his curriculum/high school transcript as well.
I am hoping to follow a similar path for my second son, although his talents are not as musical as they are athletic...so I am thinking about refereeing and coaching potentially for him.
For my daughters, I am hoping to send them to a year of cosmetology school where they can learn to cut hair. |
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Find student loan reimbursment programs in your child's field.
lapazfarm wrote:
| We are looking into a few programs for teachers (dd will be going into a masters program in music/teaching combo)where if you commit to teaching for a few years in a high-need area they will pay off your student loans.That seems like a good option for her, since she wants to teach anyway. |
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Look for schools with large endowments and aid packages.
Have something extra to offer colleges in addition to academics.
Appeal financial aid decisions.
MacBeth wrote:
we took a long and careful look at the conservatory options, applying to two that are totally free, and a few with very large endowments.
It pays to look around, have something extra to offer the school (music, sports), and to appeal the fine-aid decision. Some schools with large endowments are now charging a sliding tuition fee.
As for Catholic universities...tuition varies, and so do aid packages. Libby got a huge merit scholarship from the one Catholic school to which she applied, but would still be paying only a bit less there than the basic price of her chosen conservatory. Go figure.
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From the article posted by stef, graduating debt-free
Live a frugal lifestyle before, during, and after college.
Keep high school costs low.
Work during high school and put money away.
Get as much college credit during high school at local colleges as possible.
Clep out of coursework.
Begin college as a sophomore.
Look at state opportunities (like HOPE in GA.)
Be an RA.
Sacrifice some fun opportunities while in college.
Avoid credit cards.
Don't pay sticker price for college.
Love,
__________________
Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
About Me
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4Real Forums : High School Years and Beyond
Topic: debt-free college degree?
