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insegnante
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| Posted: April 04 2008 at 10:32am | IP Logged
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msclavel wrote:
And let me just add, my post was not about questioning motives or anger, just trying to help myself and maybe others understand that we must always be aware that our reactions, heck even how we perceive a situation is always colored by who we are. And yes, I don't adapt quickly to these types of changes. I don't think I'll ever not feel like the awkward teenager  and I think I'm even okay with that. |
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I can really relate to that! It would be crazy to think people were leaving because of me, when I don't even post that much and avoid most controversy, but I never really make friends online. It's hard enough in real life. So, without any negative speculation as to why specific people have been seen less here and certainly not as to why the owner who seems like a very kind and thoughtful person has created her new board, I haven't felt like there is much point in joining a new board if part of the reason for people flocking there is that some people feel the "interesting" people, or the people who generate interesting conversations, are not posting here much anymore -- to me it seems I'm definitely not one of those interesting people! But that is totally about the sort of "socially awkward" feelings I have about myself, like Maria described above.
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Theresa
mommy to three boys, 3/02, 8/04, and 9/10, and a girl, 8/08
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donnalynn
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CAgirl4God
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| Posted: April 04 2008 at 11:18am | IP Logged
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Just wanted to offer another Catholic homeschooling board to the mix...it is newer... and a bit slow right now.
http://z15.invisionfree.com/CatholicHomeschools/index.php?ac t=idx
see there are lots out there.
I was introduced to this forum last summer. I thought to myself "wow! what a huge resource for homeschooling ideas! and look at all these women, faithful and dedicated to their faith and families!"
that hasn't changed.
not much has changed with the board as far as I can see.. though, true, I am newer to the mix..
I can offer this. I was part of another Catholic board for 5 yrs. the people that came (and went) changed the board.. the board itself didn't change. the admins and the moderators still had the same focus as when they first started out... how they implemented that focus at any given time, changed slightly due to what was happening in their lives at the time. there were periods of 'freedom' and times of 'squelching' (for lack of a better word here... lol). but the admins control the board, with the help of moderators.
people, as they changed, wanted 'their place' to change with them. it didn't happen. people got upset, slighted, etc...
in the end that board went totally private, banned a large group of members, and others left because of the upheaval... you know what... from what I hear that board is surviving...
from what I see here, and have read in this thread... a change "of people' has happened. to me the board doesn't seem or feel any different. after almost a year of membership... it feels the same.
I applaud the start up of another board. if someone was feeling that their needs weren't being met here, ( their needs for friendship, support, fun, debating, etc etc...) then by all means, find or create something that will help you fulfill those needs. and bring friends! lol
just because someone did that does NOT mean that they and everyone else who may ever join that group thinks that 4REAL is lacking or bad in any capacity. I take it to mean that those people are growing and moving along their own faith journey and are seeking something 'more' (as in addtion to 4REAL) or different at this point on their trip to heaven.
is that wrong? heavens no!
there are tons of place on the net and irl, to find support in our vocations and our faith. how blessed are you all that now you two! and in both you will find old friends and make new ones.
If you want to go and sit on the front porch with old friends, then go... and enjoy. if you don't, for whatever your reasons are, then stay here, or where ever else you like to sip you tea.
I think it kind of sad that people are getting bent about this in the first place.
there isn't one person here, that I have 'met' or read their posts that would remotely seem mischievous or have ill reasons for starting or participating in another forum, of any kind.
and if you personally do not have the time to visit more than where you currently visit, then please, do NOT look down upon those who may have more time to just that.
we are not in the business of regulating other's time are we? I thought the purpose of these types of forums are to support and offer friendships...
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Lisbet
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| Posted: April 04 2008 at 11:23am | IP Logged
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Donna, Join us on the ""I'm Maryan thread! Fun discussion going on there!
__________________
Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
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teachingmyown
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| Posted: April 04 2008 at 11:40am | IP Logged
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Red Cardigan wrote:
Hi, Molly. You may not know me, as I've not participated on this forum since late January, but I wanted to comment here.
I'm confused as to why you thought you had to write an apology for these words. Not only were they honest and heartfelt, but also no one who is participating on this thread accused you of anything negative or "got on your case" for saying this! In fact, it seemed to be appreciated.
So I'd like to ask you point blank: are you being threatened/attacked "behind the scenes" (i.e., in emails or private messages) for having said this? I ask because that's exactly what is happening to a friend of mine who has also shared some honest and heartfelt thoughts on this thread. A group of women whom I will not name have decided that she was talking about them personally and are now harassing her in a way that is making me rather angry; in fact, if they don't cut it out I may take action.
So I'd really like to know if the same tactic has been employed against you or against anyone else on this thread. Bullying is bullying, even online, and this needs to stop. |
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Hi Red! I remember you.  Thanks for your concern. I have not been bullied in any way. I am sorry if your friend feels under attack. I get the impression that there are so many emotions tied to this whole issue that we aren't aware of, and everyone is getting defensive.
Let me clarify why I posted my apology. A friend, whose opinion I respect, pointed out to me how my choice of words could be construed as uncharitable. I think the word "motives" has a negative connotation. If I had used the word "reasons" instead, I would not have apologized. Because I think we are all wondering at the reasons behind all of this. But wondering to myself and leading others into suppositions which may not be charitable are two different things.
Maybe there is a story behind all of this. But that doesn't mean that we are privy to that information, or that anyone would benefit from public disclosure.
I am an "old-timer" here. I have seen how things change and people part ways. I sincerely believe that in our hearts we are all good, Christian women who have no desire to hurt one another. But we live in a very fallen world, we are not immune.
Let's just leave it at the fact that there is a new forum which some ladies feel more comfortable at. We need to get over it and move on. (If I sound harsh, believe me I am giving this advice primarily to myself!) The energy that this whole issue has sucked out of many of us is better spent on our families.
I may pop over to the new forum from time to time. There are ladies there whom I admire and would like to stay in contact with. But as I said before, the whole deal makes me sad because I just don't have enough time in the day to maintain two conversations. 4Real has been here for me. I want to be here for 4Real. After all, I think I have done a good job establishing myself as the poster child for indecisiveness and confusion from which others can benefit! 
__________________
In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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LisaR
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| Posted: April 04 2008 at 11:50am | IP Logged
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teachingmyown wrote:
| After all, I think I have done a good job establishing myself as the poster child for indecisiveness and confusion from which others can benefit! |
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Oh  you are such a sweetie. I could name you poster child of sincerity and kindness!!
I hate to beat a dead horse, I really do. and it does not matter in the end. I guess I'm a simpleton and don't really get it. even Cay's post, that one was a certain way, and one was another, but both still "nice" places to visit, I could not figure out which description she meant for which??!!!
I initially thought that the FCL forum was more of a business move, as Michele talked about her dh encouraging her, and a place for MA, and her planners, and sewing stuff to all come together. and that made perfect sense to me...... but it has the same chatter as 4eal, or seems to at least.
It is no one's job to make everyone else happy, or to not blog or not start a forum so as to make it easier for those of us who can spend way too much time online :)manage our time.
BUT there had to have been a mission behind the new blog. and, it is easy to guess that it is a reaction or response to something here.
I might just wander over there and ask.....?
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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Natalia
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| Posted: April 04 2008 at 11:50am | IP Logged
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I am sorry I posted about my perceptions. Evidently my perceptions are different that other people's.
Much love,
Natalia
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JennGM
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| Posted: April 04 2008 at 12:02pm | IP Logged
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Natalia wrote:
I am sorry I posted about my perceptions. Evidently my perceptions are different that other people's.
Much love,
Natalia |
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Natalia, I love you and am so happy to see you here. I am so partial to your postings because you are in my former stomping grounds!
Anyway, everyone stop apologizing! This thread has been very charitable and civl. It's natural to wonder at the change, and since women are naturally very intuitive, it's easy to perceive (even if imagined) that something is different.
I feel very blessed that an outspoken, hot-tempered, blundering fool like I am has been welcome over the last 3 years at this board. I've had the opportunity to meet many in real life, and others a closer relationship through email or phone. But even those I haven't, I feel we are all kindred spirits. We might not do everything the same, but our goals are all the same!
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Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to  & ds1  '03 & ds2  '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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Maryan
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| Posted: April 04 2008 at 12:06pm | IP Logged
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I thought all your points were valid Natalia:
- People chat about themselves more on their blogs now than here. -- I agree that took away from the forum. I know much of my family doesn't come here... so I share most of what goes on in my life on my blog!
- self-reflection for 4Real is more valid than comparing. Sort of "Keep your eyes on your own work, house, blog, forum??"
and you had more valid points, but I'm nursing and typing, so it would be too hard to summarize them all.
I don't disagree with your viewpoint on the Waldorf thread necessarily (although I did think it was good to stop the conversation). I think the unfinished business equates to forgiveness and trust among the individuals involved. Not the whole forum. It got personal, so I'm of the opinion that that kind of personal issues are best one-on-one. IYKWIM. I know others disagree with me.
Did I misunderstand anything?
__________________
Maryan
Mom to 6 boys & 1 girl: JP('01), B ('03), M('05), L('06), Ph ('08), M ('10), James born 5/1/12
A Lee in the Woudes
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marihalojen
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| Posted: April 04 2008 at 12:28pm | IP Logged
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I only have a moment and then I'm off for a busy weekend but I wanted to say that I think the new forum is good. Think of all the Protestant support groups out there, overlapping and very large and not all welcoming to Catholics. Now there is another lovely place for Catholics to find each other and find support for their vocations as mothers and educators.
__________________
~Jennifer
Mother to Mariannna, age 13
The Mari Hal-O-Jen
SSR = Sailing, Snorkling, Reading
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Cay Gibson
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| Posted: April 04 2008 at 12:52pm | IP Logged
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JennGM wrote:
Natalia, I love you and am so happy to see you here. I am so partial to your postings because you are in my former stomping grounds! |
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Me too, Natalia. There are so many women here from the East coast, I really enjoy seeing other Louisiana-gals here.
JennGM wrote:
This thread has been very charitable and civl. It's natural to wonder at the change, and since women are naturally very intuitive, it's easy to perceive (even if imagined) that something is different. |
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Jenn nailed it. I am so happy with the tone of this thread. I think it's a good thing when people can talk and lay out their feelings. Us women like to do that, don't we? Usually our husbands are the ones who have to listen to us though.  And as long as everyone is charitable and thoughtful, hurt feelings can be worked out, as long as both sides are receptive to open communication and the grace derived from being open to another one's thought-process and concerns.
None of this is about any one of us. We need to be open to how the other person feels. What has she come here for? What is she searching for? What does she hope to give and gain here? We need to tune our feelings away from ourselves and turn to the one who is posting and ask, How can I be supportive of her ? How can I be charitable to her? How can I be sympathetic? How can I be *her* Mother Teresa?
And then we move on---richer in conversation, blessed by relationships, and respectful of the new understandings of one another.
I think we can drop all assumptions of business motives amongst members. Believe me, there is no real money to be made in hsing (especially Catholic ) materials. It's of mission-quality and totally out there for the sharing. We all have different gifts to offer and God only allows out there what He wants offered. Ask me how I know. No one is trying to out-do anyone else. We offer services and that's about it. If we wanted more, we'd be knocking on the doors of corporate America, not the doors of single-income, hsing families.
JennGM wrote:
| I feel very blessed that an outspoken, hot-tempered, blundering fool like I am has been welcome over the last 3 years at this board. |
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Jenn, you have no idea what a lovable person you are. But we do.
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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LisaR
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| Posted: April 04 2008 at 12:57pm | IP Logged
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Cay Gibson wrote:
I think we can drop all assumptions of business motives amongst members. Believe me, there is no real money to be made in hsing |
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oh, I did not mean for money at all, just that I was assuming it would be an easier venue for people to chat/get questions answered about MA, or the planners, scheduling, sewing, etc. Kind of more self contained and manageable, kwim??
I did not think at all that it was part of a pyramid or get rich quick plan, and double no especially in the Catholic homeschooling genre, not going to happen!!
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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MaryM
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| Posted: April 04 2008 at 1:08pm | IP Logged
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Natalia and anyone else who may feel their perceptions are different from everyone else - there are so many different ways to see things. Our personal past experiences, our biases (what we think of as "the right way") our temperaments, how personal it feels, all influence how we view a particular situation. Same event, same statement - many different ways of seeing it, trying to interpret it, wonder about it, react to it.
Would it help you all to know that the moderators don't have the same perceptions of, or reactions to, different conversations that occur? We are a pretty diverse group. We try to balance each other by sharing our perspectives and ultimately try to make decisions on action based on the overall good for the group.
And lastly, perceptions are just that. They don't necessarily give us the insight into the reality although they could be accurate. There are probably grains of reality in a vast spectrum of perceptions but not necessarily the whole of reality. Human nature is very complex. We are never going to have total understanding or peace in this world.
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Mary M. in Denver
Our Domestic Church
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Cay Gibson
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| Posted: April 04 2008 at 1:11pm | IP Logged
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Dear Lisa,
No worries, dear. I wasn't pinpointing your post or anyone else's. I just saw it commented on and thought I needed to address it to lay aside that thought.
What you wrote (below), I think if very observant and accurate. Michele is a very creative and outgoing person. I'm sure she gets lots of mail in her box and this is a way she can keep track of all her projects and share the information with everyone.
LisaR wrote:
I initially thought that the FCL forum was more of a business move, as Michele talked about her dh encouraging her, and a place for MA, and her planners, and sewing stuff to all come together. and that made perfect sense to me...... but it has the same chatter as 4eal, or seems to at least.
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Like I said, it's all good.
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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teachingmyown
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| Posted: April 04 2008 at 2:21pm | IP Logged
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Natalia wrote:
I am sorry I posted about my perceptions. Evidently my perceptions are different that other people's.
Much love,
Natalia |
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Your post was very thoughtful and thought-provoking. I almost want to ask you the same question Red Cardigan asked me about being bullied. (I kind of laugh at that word, cause I think "what are you going to do to me online? But I understand the sentiment.)
Maybe this needs to be another thread, but I cannot for the life of me understand who would think that it would be appropriate to send someone a nasty PM or reprimand someone for stating their opinion. Besides, if you have something to say, say it in public. On the other hand, there is always that sage advice, "If you can't say something nice..."
Natalia, please continue to express your perception of things. Just say NO to the bullies.
__________________
In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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hylabrook1
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| Posted: April 04 2008 at 2:38pm | IP Logged
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Natalia -
I LOVED your post, maybe largely because it exactly expressed what I've been feeling as well. Only I didn't have the nerve to try and post on the topic, because I wasn't sure I could put into words what I've been feeling without doing it clumsily and causing hurt feelings. I have no idea what people's reasons are, and I choose to assume that they are the best reasons out there. I miss certain people, but I've been blessed by getting to know others a bit better.
Thank you, Natalia, for taking the time to write such a carefully thought-out post.
Peace,
Nancy
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Nina Murphy
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| Posted: April 04 2008 at 3:06pm | IP Logged
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Dear Ladies,
I am so confused. (Of course, it doesn't help that I, myself, have been "off" for a good time and not checking the Forum....) But would someone please clarify: DID something happen that resulted in many women choosing to leave this Forum? I have read a few of these posts that stated something to the effect of: "women who left here to go there"....
Why would a core group of founding members purposefully "leave"--? Is it on record that many were offended at something specific....or just a general "tone" or "direction" of discussion that the Forum was perceived as taking/going in?
That infers that a major shift was occuring due to new members' joining and their thoughts or core values being different than what the founding members originally wanted expressed or promoted.
Did the purity of the "message" or mission statement start getting diluted? I really don't understand. Aren't these boards for more than like-minded bonding and encouragement, but also for real thought-provoking discussion and sometimes heart-wrenching "debate", even? How else do we grow? Our spiritual lives are fluid, we are always ebbing and flowing....
Sigh....I am disappointed. Oh well---I am two weeks post-partum so that doesn't help!
So the idea is: this board has women who started expressing contrary thought (to whatever: homeschooling, child raising, marriage, etc) and some no longer felt comfortable or wanted to stay and identify themselves with it?
Dear women, who I truly LOVE, please speak plainly and shed some light on what appears to me to be darkness.
__________________
God bless,
~~Nina
mother of 9 on earth,
and 2 yet-to-be-met
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folklaur
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| Posted: April 04 2008 at 3:47pm | IP Logged
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?
Isn't the new message board just an extension of the FCL Yahoogroup?
Similar to how this board came from CCM Yahoogroup?
or am I totally naive?
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Angie Mc
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| Posted: April 04 2008 at 4:38pm | IP Logged
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Nina Murphy wrote:
DID something happen that resulted in many women choosing to leave this Forum?...Is it on record that many were offended at something specific....or just a general "tone" or "direction" of discussion that the Forum was perceived as taking/going in?
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I am not aware of anything specific.
Nina Murphy wrote:
| Why would a core group of founding members purposefully "leave"--? |
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Speaking as a manager who has supported moderators who needed to retire from moderating duties or leave completely, they have done so for a variety of reasons. Although the specific reasons are for them to choose to share or not, it has been my experience that those who have retired from moderating have done so for positive reasons for themselves, not against anything that happened here.
Nina Murphy wrote:
| That infers that a major shift was occuring due to new members' joining and their thoughts or core values being different than what the founding members originally wanted expressed or promoted. |
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This is not my experience. The board did (and continues) to experience tremendous growth. For the first three years, the moderators informally met challenges as they arose in a piece meal fashion. As explained this past fall, at that time it became necessary to regroup and refocus. Most of the original moderators joined together in a retreat and clarified the core values, which are now shown more formally in the About Us section of the board. At that time, Elizabeth shifted from the day-to-day moderating duties. She is still here as a Founder and is supportive of the current moderators ability to help with the daily moderating here.
Nina Murphy wrote:
| Did the purity of the "message" or mission statement start getting diluted? I really don't understand. Aren't these boards for more than like-minded bonding and encouragement, but also for real thought-provoking discussion and sometimes heart-wrenching "debate", even? How else do we grow? Our spiritual lives are fluid, we are always ebbing and flowing..... |
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In the early years (going back to CCM) relationships were more like-minded because anyone who was fool enough to be a Catholic CMer was a lonely fool! Those were the days when families were struggling to discern how to homeschool (now there is a TON of information and support for that), how to be a Catholic in a heavily Christian or liberal homeschooling world, (now there is much more support for that, in large part to the contributions of the early members of CCM), and how to design your own curriculum (it is hard to remember that there was a time when if you didn't follow a Catholic school-at-home curriculum, you were suspect!). So just being a Catholic homeschooler who like Charlotte Mason philsophy was enough to pull people together as we all learned together. Now that this way of living is more established, we have more options about who/what/where/when/why we choose community.
Thought-provoking discussion and sometimes heart-wrenching "debate" continue to happen here. (Although there seems to be a misunderstanding about moderators *squashing* discussion. Objectively, this is not true. We simply ask that charity and respect come first.) I do think that the discussions and debates are expanding for sure. In the early years many of us were just trying to cobble together an educational philosophy that made some sense while cominbing it with the desire to flourish as a family in our faith. Now many members have moved on from this and want to share what they have learned with those who are new. So we continue to see a variety of discussions, coming from a variety of perspecitves.
Nina Murphy wrote:
| Sigh....I am disappointed. Oh well---I am two weeks post-partum so that doesn't help! |
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Gosh, Nina, I would hate to see you disappointed. I so appreciate your candor and courtesy and your passion for mothering.
Nina Murphy wrote:
| So the idea is: this board has women who started expressing contrary thought (to whatever: homeschooling, child raising, marriage, etc) and some no longer felt comfortable or wanted to stay and identify themselves with it? |
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I will assume that anyone who has left (and there has been a constant coming and going since the founding of this board) has done so for positive reasons for themselves, not as something against what is happening here. I'm not saying that we have satified everyone for the whole time they were here, but I do know that we have been open to hearing the concerns of members and willing to clarify and implement change when needed.
What helps me is to see this message board as a volunteer one-day-at-a-time ministry which is different from a formally established and committed group of people (family, long-time friends, etc.) We are free to come and go as we see fit ...well here it is from the homepage if some members haven't read the fine print in a while :
Welcome! 4Real is a volunteer ministry providing family-to-family support for Catholic parent educators and friends who emphasize Living Books as they design or adapt curriculum to meet their family needs. This message board is moderated by Catholic home educating mothers who value a respectful and courteous online haven, strive to choose the choicest part of educational opportunities, share a loosely defined educational philosophy, and enjoy its related methods. Many members identify with a similar philosophy and use similar methods while all members have ideas, methods, materials, and experiences to share. If you identify with and enjoy a similar approach to home education, may this board be only an encouragement as you fulfill your vocation while learning in the heart of the home. If you are new to home education, designing curriculum, or the Catholic faith, a special welcome!
So each day, except for Sunday (US Time), we (long-time and new members) open our doors and strive to meet the needs of the ladies who come on in. We give this board a container based on the About Us documents. We respect that members will self-identify if they fit here or not. We know that we can't be everything to everyone, but that's OK too. I love to meet up with my old friends here (who obviously aren't OLD really) and I love, love, love, meeting new members who bring a fresh perspective, positive energy, and honest challenges to this community. This day-to-day approach keeps us in the here and now and we are blessed by each and every one who takes the time to share here.
Nina Murphy wrote:
Dear women, who I truly LOVE, please speak plainly and shed some light on what appears to me to be darkness. |
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I did my best to speak plainly, Nina, but as far as being able to shed light...others are better suited for that . Now, you mother of a new sweet baby, I encourage you to not fret one second over this. Go watch a weepy girlfriend movie instead (I love doing that when I'm post-partum...just to get the tears out!)
Love,
__________________
Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
About Me
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Angie Mc
Board Moderator
Joined: Jan 31 2005
Location: Arizona
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 11400
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| Posted: April 04 2008 at 4:41pm | IP Logged
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cactus mouse wrote:
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Isn't the new message board just an extension of the FCL Yahoogroup?
Similar to how this board came from CCM Yahoogroup?
or am I totally naive? |
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You are definitely not a naive woman, Laura! You are up to your ears in boxes and life, but definitely not naive. Go back to packing .
Love,
__________________
Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
About Me
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: What's happening?
