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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: Feb 24 2006 at 3:08pm | IP Logged
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I like the sounds of what you have planned, Karen. I will be sitting down this Spring to write the 7th grade plans in a way that would work well for ds. I am sure that my ds would wilt and die under *that much* writing.
I have been asking myself what exactly is logical to expect from children regarding history. I love history. It grieves me to no end that the child I raised on Sonlight and living literature says he *hates* history.  He remembers very little of what we did in the elementary years. In fact, I think I'd go so far as to say that he doesn't remember anything before age 11 and he's 12 now! 
Here's what I've come up with so far. Laura Berquist talks a lot about biography being the best way to begin history study. I think she may be right. I've been reconsidering all my ideas about history in light of my experiences with ds and listening to Carole Joy Seid's seminars on education.
So anyway, I'm thinking K-4th (and maybe 5...not sure yet) is not the time for chronology or timelines or connections. Its the time for exciting stories about figures like G. Washington and the saints. Its a good time to do basic geography, and maybe to memorize the states/capitals and some geographic regions (but I wouldn't do as many as LB does).
I'm thinking 5th ish/6th-8th is the time to begin chronological history with simple books like P and P, OWA, or SOTW (which needs major modifications), to continue with good historical fiction, and to start a timeline. Hopefully they will already be familiar with a lot of the characters of history from all the years of biographical historical fiction. I think analysis of history is asking more of most jr. high aged children than is developmentally appropriate. Lists of what happened when and who is who seems to me to be a better expectation. Narrations are good, too. But 5 question papers? Too hard, imho. A creative writing assignment like "pretend you are a soldier during the battle of gettysburg" is likely to be easier than the analysis involved in the 5 question papers, imho.
8th would be a transition year, where analysis would be introduced, but I wouldn't expect them to be great. My friend who taught jr. high for years (geography) once told me that jr. high is when the schools "coast" because the kids are so internally focused on growth that expecting new learning out of them is a waste of time.
9th - 12th I guess would be the beginning of true analysis and making connections. This would get progressively harder, and I'd definitely expect more out of 11th and 12th graders.
When I think about it, I took AP American history in the 11th grade, when AP was still fairly new. I loved that class, worked my tail off, and was the first person at my school to pass the test.  I still remember more about Am. history from his class than from my college classes. We used a standard but boring college text. Analysis was done almost completely orally with the teacher (who was excellent) asking really provocative questions to get us thinking. He led the discussions and walked us through all the thought processes necessary to understand the analysis. After weeks of class discussions on the connections, then we would have a paper due on a topic of his choice, along with tests that combined the usual fill in the blank/mult. choice with short essay questions. Our regular homework was to answer the questions at the end of the chapter (straight comprehension check). We would have drowned in that class with an expectation of a 5 question paper every week.
I am beginning to really agree with the above post-er that some of CHC's expectations are for overachieving girls! 
Anyway, I have noticed that ds responds with confidence when I back off on analysis and expect straight comprehension, and then I just *tell* him what he needs to know when a controversial topic comes up ie..."Some people believe Christians and the Catholic church were wrong to start the crusades, but they always fail to acknowlege that the Muslims started it by taking over countries and giving them the option of death or conversion at swordpoint. Yes, some Christians behaved wrongly while on Crusades. But the ideal of rescuing our brothers and sisters was a good one." I only want him to know that there are 2 sides, right now. I am banking on historical fiction to help cement those moments in his head. Later I will expect him to write about it in ...jr/sr high school.
Anyway, this makes more sense to me. I love CHC, but I'm going to modify most of the history from this point onward, even with my 2nd-4th graders. I also love Sonlight's readers/read alouds, but I'm going to cut them back even more than I have in the past.
I'm so so sad about my poor guinea pig first son. He thinks history is a drag. He is burned out and he's only 12! Its my fault, for using aggressive history programs with him, even though they were always literature based.
~Books
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Karen T
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| Posted: Feb 24 2006 at 4:44pm | IP Logged
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Books,
I heartily agree with what you wrote about using good biographies in the younger years and saving the connections for later. I guess this is sort of what the Well trained Mind recommends, only they have the child memorizing lots of lists. But essentially, giving them the ideas now, and let them make the connections later!
I feel the same way about my ds, burning him out early. Have I really done him a favor taking him out of ps? Yes, I still have to think so, b/c even if my plans haven't been exactly what he needed, the ideas he's been exposed to have far exceeded what he had in ps.
I had no good history in high school, but I did take a class in college that was much like your AP class sounds like. I didn't like history at all at the time, but the professor was so enthusiastic and we had such great discussions I worked very hard in it. I can't even remember exactly what type of history it was although I think it was modern European. One of our papers required researching our family tree a bit and describing what life was like for the earliest known ancestor you had.
I recently read in our alumni newspaper of that professor's death and was greatly saddened, and a bit regretful that I had never taken the time to let him know how special he was. He received many teaching honors, so I guess I wasn't the only one.
Karen
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Kathryn UK
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| Posted: Feb 25 2006 at 6:27am | IP Logged
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Bookswithtea wrote:
I have been asking myself what exactly is logical to expect from children regarding history. I love history. It grieves me to no end that the child I raised on Sonlight and living literature says he *hates* history.
... I'm so so sad about my poor guinea pig first son. He thinks history is a drag. He is burned out and he's only 12! Its my fault, for using aggressive history programs with him, even though they were always literature based.
~Books |
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Some children (and adults) just don't like history. I also love history - have a Ph.D in medieval history - but my almost 11yo dd hates it. My dh also hates history, and they are very similar personalities. Dd is not an empathetic or imaginative type, and just doesn't "get" it. I felt much better once I realised that her talents and inclination just don't lie in that direction, and that her lack of interest wasn't down to me. Now I work with her in the same way I would with a child who struggled with maths - we work at a lower level, and all I aim at is the basics (an idea of major personalities and what happened when). Maybe she will do better with history as she matures, maybe she won't. We may never get to the analytical stage, but that's OK - some children may never get to calculus in maths. On the other hand she is increasingly enjoying science, and looking forward to plunging into chemistry (with lots of experiments) next year. If she ends up being a scientist rather than a historian, that's OK with me!
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Kathryn
Dh Michael,  Rachel(3/95) Hannah(8/98) Naomi(6/06)  (11/07)
The Bookworm
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: Feb 25 2006 at 7:27am | IP Logged
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Hi Kathryn,
Thank you for your encouraging words. I have wondered sometimes if this is the issue, but I'm just not sure, yet. He hates history texts and he hates being held accountable for any history information (I've tried every form of accountability I can think of!). He does like historical fiction, as long as its not all I give him. So I'm not sure if its me and my methods or if he really just hates history.
How much would you expect of a child that hates history at the jr. high/high school level?
~Books
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: CHC again
