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Bookswithtea
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I just wanted to add one thing, since Seton has come up a few times. We tried this with a child who was begging for more independence last year. We used 4 subjects, 3 of which we had all the tests and busy work for (grammar, reading comprehension, vocabulary), and one where we just read through the text and answered the questions (history). I was having one of the worst school years ever, extremely burned out/borderline depressed and thought this would make my life easier.
It didn't work. It made it harder...much harder. I felt like a failure because I couldn't keep up with the pace, and we really did give it a fair try. We turned in our first quarter's work in *December* because that was the earliest we could finish it, and he got all A's. But it did not free me up at all. Because it was not the method of learning we have used in our home in the past (heavy heavy heavy on memorization...even in subjects like history), I had to teach him how to 'study to the test' in order to do well. I hear that it works for some families, and I don't want to discount their experience. But I'd feel bad if I didn't tell you that it was an awful experience for us, even if it is the minority viewpoint. 
MODG didn't work for us either, btw. I just thought it might be easier than Seton. The one subject that we did without the busywork went the best. If you decide to try this, I would not recommend signing up for the full complement of classes. Maybe just try one course and see how it goes? You can always add another if it goes well and she still needs more to do???
.02
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mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and  due 9/10
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JenniferS
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I don't have a lot of experience, but I will say that our experience with Seton was the same as Books. I do think Seton is a solidly Catholic, good program. It was just a very bad fit for our family.
I wish I could give more advice, but I'm still pretty green in this whole homeschooling thing. Many prayers.
Jen
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MarilynW
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Bookswithtea wrote:
It didn't work. It made it harder...much harder. I felt like a failure because I couldn't keep up with the pace, and we really did give it a fair try. We turned in our first quarter's work in *December* because that was the earliest we could finish it, and he got all A's. But it did not free me up at all. Because it was not the method of learning we have used in our home in the past (heavy heavy heavy on memorization...even in subjects like history), I had to teach him how to 'study to the test' in order to do well. I hear that it works for some families, and I don't want to discount their experience. But I'd feel bad if I didn't tell you that it was an awful experience for us, even if it is the minority viewpoint.
Maybe just try one course and see how it goes? You can always add another if it goes well and she still needs more to do???
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I am glad you mentioned Books - we did not enjoy it much either. I think your idea of one course is a good one.
I still go back to my original email of finding other things to do. But I do think I would rather do Seton than send my kids to school. And it may work for a child who is very independent. Anyway - I am still a "rookie" - I am sure there are many out there with more experience.
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Blessed with 6 gifts from God
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mimmyof5
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My 10 yr old dd (5th gr.) is enrolled with Seton for the 2nd year for a lot of the same reasons. It was Seton or probably sending her to school so Seton won.
She is very obedient and does the work, but there is no love of learning. In fact, it's beginning to have quite a negative impact on learning altogether. After finishing the work, there's very little time left for reading or writing for enjoyment. All the workbook assignments and memorization has been a path to burn out for us. Plus, she has had very little retention with spelling and vocabulary although she dutifully does the workbook pages. In fact, I'm looking for something else right now. In spite of all that, her grades are mostly A's, but it doesn't mean she owns the material, just that she studied well the night before the test! And learning is becoming an unpleasant obligation.
Seton is a good academic program and thoroughly Catholic. It can work. It was a much better choice than school - for us. But as the others said, it could add another whole level of stress to your life that you don't need right now.
No answers I guess. Last year when I thought my life was falling apart, it did what I wanted: kept her home, kept her from falling behind academically and was filled with Catholicism. But there were negatives which I'm now dealing with. If I did it over, I would not do full enrollment. Maybe just religion, English and reading.
Prayers,
Janet
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LLMom
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Seton can be difficult if your child has not done it all along OR is not good in the language art dept. The grammar and writing are the toughest to jump into if you have not been really working these before. And btw, nothing is required to turn in. SHe could just use the lesson plans and scrap the tests/grades.
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For veteran & former homeschool moms
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ALmom
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Molly:
I always so identify with your posts because we sound a lot alike and some of our children have dealt or are dealing with lonliness type things. I am not able to divide my attention well and totally fall flat with group activities so I so identify with your agony over not giving enough positive reinforcement. I don't do more than one thing at a time well, so if we are having a good school day, supper isn't on the table and if supper is on the table, the house is falling apart, the children haven't gotten much done in academics and... You get the picture. It is taking me time to realize where I need the support and where the support becomes just one more thing I have to do. We're praying for you and your husband's discernment cause there are plenty of great ideas and it all depends on what is causing your dd angst and you and your dh are the only ones (with God's grace) who can figure that one out.
It took me a while with one of my dd because when I had too light a load, she had extreme angst but she didn't deal with lots of pressure well either cause she was a perfectionist. We finally found the right balance for her with stops and starts. That really is OK. They really do fine despite mistakes we make - but you don't see that till much later. In the meantime you torture yourself and no matter how many times I know and repeat to myself that it is unnecessary torture, I have a hard time letting go. I love these kids and don't want to do them a disservice. I'm not sure I know how to not stress  but I am trying to learn.
I know many times I cried to God, would he please just shout in my ears exactly what we should do so I could feel secure enough in it to not worry all the time and not feel guilty later over money I spent on something that wasn't being used. Well, God did it a bit differently - he sent dh with some "this is taking far too much time, drop this - we're doing it this way." We had to take some time to really hash through my insecurities. I needed reinforcement just like my children did. This year he stepped in on my science stress and pretty much told me we weren't worrying about some things. It is so wonderful not to have to be the final decision maker on these school decisions and I am so much more relaxed. I still stress - afraid I always will.
I love, love, love Hillside as far as helping step students through the process of writing. It is relatively inexpensive and I can intersperse it with just plain reading for fun. I also love their thought provoking questions - and I don't have to make them up. They do not provide quidance to me as to what to expect from the age level as far as writing goes. Now here is the clincher - that is the one area that I really needed support. Seton will grade and send back feedback on papers. My oldest was frustrated with it because she was a perfectionist. She would rewrite 95% papers to try and get improvement and then be frustrated cause she really could not figure out what Seton was looking for. If it wasn't a 100% it wasn't good enough and she kept trying to make it better. If I gave her a high grade, she wasn't confident that it wasn't just because I was her mom. It did help her to see a few grades from someone else and then we could both sort of let the grade thing take a second fiddle so we could get on with the business of really learning. It meant more when she had specific compliments for specific things. Kolbe tended to do a better job for her here. Seton sent the wonderful holy cards and would say, "great job" so don't get me wrong, they both gave positive feedback in their own way. My particular dd didn't believe it until it got very specific so Kolbe was better for her there.
This same dd needed more tangible feedback, examples of what things would look like, etc. She did much better with an evaluator who would correct her paper with specific examples of how she might have worded things better or made a more interesting introduction or conclusion, etc. It also helped for someone other than mom to catch things that I missed simply because I am her mom and often know how she thinks. Seton would mark down and correct grammar mistakes but never reworded anything for them. My dd learned better seeing what she needed to do and then she could incorporate the same things in her next papers. Kolbe did more of the rewording a sample or two to show what they meant when they said something wasn't clear or... My daughter felt like she didn't have to read minds here. I think it all is a matter of what is most helpful for your child.
I use Kolbe's enhanced evaluation program and the best part of that is that though I've signed up with Kolbe, I do not follow very much of their lesson plan. I use it as an overview of some of the things someone else considers important and then look at what I'm already doing and for the most part, we are covering those things in our own way so I don't worry about it. I use what I want to use, and skip the rest. I contiue doing things the way we always have, but I send in papers for evaluation and then use that feedback to help my child. If you sense that what your child needs is encouragement, then tell the counselors this and they will grade accordingly. I actually asked the evaluator to mark the papers the way they would college students (for a gifted high school writer who has no trouble with confidence and could care less about grades) but told my dd that I'd done this and I didn't see much point in giving writing assignments unless we were going to be learning to improve from them - but when it came time to giving grades for the semester, I consulted with the evaluator and asked what her writing would be compared to other high schoolers her age. I gave her the grade that reflected her ability as a 9th grader and the effort she had put into it. Another child, I simply asked for Kolbe to evaluate one or two papers (the grade stressed perfectionist that needed some building up) and described how stressed she had been. They were so reassuring to both of us. This child was a fine writer and would not have any problems. She hasn't and that little vote of confidence really helped.
We, personally, have had great experience with the evaluation program (but you do have to sign up with Kolbe for them to get it and pay extra for it so it does become expensive). I have sent plenty of papers to them from Hillside resources. What I decided is that I needed a year or two of someone helping me grade papers so I knew how to be reasonable  . My dd also gets her perfectionism honestly. Kolbe could drive you crazy if you try to follow their plans, but if you feel free to just take what you need and communicate with the evaluator to get that, then it works very well. I send in 4 or 5 papers a year and grade some myself in between. If I'm not doing a paper for a given quarter on their plans, then it really doesn't matter which papers I send in for which quarters. This year I cut back and only signed up for EES for 1st and 4th quarters. I don't send work in to Kolbe to get their diploma or record keeping or anything. But if I did, I could still do Kolbe this way. I personally don't need extra paperwork and told them I probably would not be sending in quarter grades and samples. That is what I've done so far.
The biggest complaint about Kolbe plans is that they are hard for a student to follow themselves unless they are real attentive to detail. I rewrite all my plans so I have every subject together on a given day and exactly what to read, do , etc. on that day (well to the level of exactness for the particular child - my oldest, I simply gave her the Kolbe plans and she adjusted them for herself, my current 9th grader and below, I rewrite Kolbe plans that I use interspersed with my own stuff. That is a lot of work if you are wanting their plans. If all you want is the evaluation then just do what you want, don't plan to send anything in for grades and just sign up for a quarter of EES.
If you are anything like me, the biggest temptation with Kolbe plans is to ooh and aah about all the things you are not doing, stress that you are leaving something important out and... The way I manage this is that my dh and I decide with said child, exactly what we will be doing. I write my plans up - pull out any paper topics, helpful hints in the plan, assessment support we might use to include any answer keys, etc. and Then I HIDE my original Kolbe plans so I don't look back!! It is the only way I don't drive my dc crazy because I want to read it all and do it all and have no sense of what is realistic  . So far this is working.
Anyways, prayers for you and your family. Hope this helps and doesn't just add to the stress.
Janet
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cfa83
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Hi Molly!
My dear friend Cay has nudged me to read this particular email. I have not been on any site for weeks now. Between traveling and concentrating on home repairs, I have not had the time as I would like to visit with everyone. 
Having said that, I have not had time to read what I am sure are wonderful responses you have already received. I did read your post thanks to my dear Cay.
Here's my 2 cents and my dd (14) 4 cents:
Does your gut tell you it's the curriculum that is part of what needs to change? I'm wondering if the academics is not what needs to be adjusted but her free time needs different attention.
My dd suggested allowing her own blog. My dd is the oldest of 6. The next girl is 7 years younger. Her brothers are well, brothers.  A blog is such a release of energy.
Karen Andreola from Charlotte Mason's Companion stated everyone should have something to do, something to love...something like that! I agree. I'm not sure you have to consume time with more/different academics as opposed to having ample time to delve in to something she loves.
I reluctantly encouraged my dd to try out the local Catholic youth group. She is always with her siblings which is great but I think there is some value to branching out a little.
I think the "something to do" has big dividends. Who knows what her branching out will be. I know one person who can help you there...your lovely daughter.
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Linda
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LisaR
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I've been out all day at co-op, but in skimming the posts very quickly before soccer  I am having yet another "ah-ha" moment. we really all as MOMS are wired so differently!! For whatever reason, I felt supported, not pressured from Seton. Yet I felt VERY pressured when I would try to collect wonderful ideas from blogs from far and wide, booklists, unschooling, am I doing Charlotte Mason right- what does Montessori look like in a very cramped, poor, and chaotic home, etc..
For me personally, Seton is so very freeing. Because I must thrive on an external boundary or guideline. for others, Seton probably overwhelms them, but they are very internally and self motivated. Most likely why our Thur Co- OP day is a HUGE hit with me and all the kids- we like the external "assignments" and completing a task that has been given to us!!
anyway this has been interesting!
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Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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teachingmom
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teachingmyown wrote:
A question about Lingua Mater: does this require my time or planning? I want her to have more to do as far as Language Arts, she is only doing Easy Grammar Plus, but I can't be counted on to oversee it. |
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I'm not sure if anyone answered this yet. I think that if your dd is self motivated and good with follow through, she can work her way through Lingua Mater basically on her own. You can go through her work every week or so and give feedback, but you really don't have to teach every day or even most days.
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Bookswithtea
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teachingmom wrote:
I'm not sure if anyone answered this yet. I think that if your dd is self motivated and good with follow through, she can work her way through Lingua Mater basically on her own. You can go through her work every week or so and give feedback, but you really don't have to teach every day or even most days. |
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I like Lingua Mater a lot, but the child needs to be very comfortable with writing to do it independently. I like it better for 7th and 8th graders, rather than 6th graders. That said, I am definitely of the "better late than early" persuasion. We use it alongside Easy Grammar in junior high.
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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Bookswithtea
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LisaR wrote:
I've been out all day at co-op, but in skimming the posts very quickly before soccer I am having yet another "ah-ha" moment. we really all as MOMS are wired so differently!! For whatever reason, I felt supported, not pressured from Seton. Yet I felt VERY pressured when I would try to collect wonderful ideas from blogs from far and wide, booklists, unschooling, am I doing Charlotte Mason right- what does Montessori look like in a very cramped, poor, and chaotic home, etc..
For me personally, Seton is so very freeing. Because I must thrive on an external boundary or guideline. for others, Seton probably overwhelms them, but they are very internally and self motivated. Most likely why our Thur Co- OP day is a HUGE hit with me and all the kids- we like the external "assignments" and completing a task that has been given to us!!
anyway this has been interesting! |
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This is so funny, Lisa. Mostly because I hated our one coop experience where we used it for academic classes, too. I felt smothered by their demands and our home stuff took a back seat. We are still in a coop, but we only use it for fun stuff that have no homework assigned. I guess you are right...I really dislike external pressure. We are using NARS for high school this year and it is going *great*! I get to pick all the curriculum AND the methods of assessment myself...they are totally comfortable with not using traditional testing methods. I turn in good records, which I am willing to keep in exchange for the freedom, and I turn in the work we've done, all graded, and they verify. And they leave me alone. 
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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LisaR
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This is so funny, Lisa. Mostly because I hated our one coop experience where we used it for academic classes, too. I felt smothered by their demands and our home stuff took a back seat. [/QUOTE]
see, and I just really enjoy the structure. I sat down with 7 other moms over lunch today and we mapped out an entire Medieval Feast day- with Plays, costumes, authentic meal, art studies, a timeline lapbook being made, and so on. EVERYTHING that would have been so overwhelming for me to do on my own, yet it is quite energizing for me in a group to brainstorm my little heart out, and suggest all of these ideas, and then we collectively "broke it down" into minute little tasks. We all just have a tiny bit to do really, and it is all organized and seems so manageable that way for me!!
When I got caught up in revamping MODG, or trying to keep up with the crazy LA Sonlight provided and tweaking it (I have heard their LA is better now!) or printing off and gleaning so many many thrilling ideas from lots of the 4 Real ladies, I burned out on the actual presentation of it. I just could not pull it all off all by myself. it seemed too daunting, and too depressing, as I had constant inturruptions to deal with.
isn't it great how we all can homeschool, in our own unique ways??
one of my kids best homeschool memories has been Cay's Alphabet Book Study. We simply (through Literature Alive, I think) went through one Author per week, alphabetically, for 26 weeks. We did not miss a week, and "met" wonderful picture book authors this way, keeping a very simple journal along the way.
They keep asking if we can do it again! even the 14 y/o can rattle off an impressive number of authors.
so I've rambled long enough.
Off to collate ds's First quarter tests!
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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ALmom
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Love it Lisa R. We are all so different!
Molly, sure hope we have been helpful and not confused you more with all our differing ideas. Anyone of them would be great depending on what it is your dd really needs and what you are up to at the moment. Prayers in any case!!!
Janet
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teachingmyown
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I am praying and digesting it all!
Thanks for all the food for thought and the prayers.
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In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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Kristie 4
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Molly,
My dd is 10 and I have been noticing an increase in mood swings; days where she is heavier than others.
Hope you find peace in the struggle.
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Kristie in Canada
Mom to 3 boys and one spunky princess!!
A Walk in the Woods
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vmalott
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I agree wholeheartedly with Linda. I have a feeling this might be more of a developmental/emotional 11yo girl thing, as my daughter went through something quite similar at that age.
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| She alternates between very helpful and very moody where she is snapping at everyone. |
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Oh, yes, perfect indicator that those lovely female changes are brewing. That part does improve a little as she gets older. I don't think it has anything to do with your personal struggle right now.
Anyway, with my daughter, it surprised me that she suddenly gave up certain things that I thought she enjoyed. Rather than trying to fill that gap up with something else, I realized that she needed that free time to figure things out...time to think, time to "find herself", and time to find something she really loved.
During that time, she found something that she really loved to do....in her case it was drawing. She plunged herself headfirst into teaching herself how to draw Pokemon characters (oh, I know...let's not go there... ). The point is, she found her niche...not MY niche for her, not something the other kids in the family did, but something that was, and still is, all HERS. It was a bit of a bumpy road for her (and me) at first, but now that she is 13 and being more at home with herself (and all those physical changes occurring), she's much, much better.
So, yes, that free time is a valuable thing...it's just a matter of helping your daughter find what she needs. Maybe encourage her to do more outdoor activities on her own, or show her some easy recipes that she can cook with little guidance from you, especially before the newest family member arrives.
HTH,
Valerie
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Valerie
Mom to Julia ('94), John ('96), Lizzy ('98), Connor ('01), Drew ('02), Cate ('04), Aidan ('08) and three saints in heaven
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chicken lady
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Molly, I too have an 11yr dd, she too is having a difficult time in life right now. I am leaning towards others advice about it being a phase. My dd, will not follow through on ANYTHING! I give her the freedom to choose her daily activities, the other dc, pick an activity or book and finish it. DD 11, moops about and we are far from living a life of boredom. She is extremly social, I am finding I need less and less external interaction, we are butting heads constantly. I have know idea what you need, I do hear your depression and I just want to let you know that you are going to be OK. This too shall pass! I will send up some Aves for your peace of mind. I think when you have the baby and the spring comes you will be doing great. It seems like a long time I know, but remember it passes VERY quickly.
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Need "easy" solution for dd11
