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cathhomeschool
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Texas Bluebonnets
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| Posted: Sept 29 2007 at 11:03am | IP Logged
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Natalia,
I know exactly what you mean. The gifted writers among us do have a way of inspiring me, and I am very grateful for that. And based on everything that I've read from them (plus personal conversations that I've had with ladies like Elizabeth, Lissa, Cay and Alice), I believe that these ladies *do* write responsibly and honestly. Each reader also has a responsibility (as I believe Colleen and probably others said?) to discern what they've read and decide which part, if any, is for their family. Just because beeswax crayons are wonderful, doesn't necessarily mean that I should buy some (though I did last week after months of weighing the options and thinking about it and doing my own research. How much more important this process would be with a weightier decision than "which crayons to buy!"). We definitely do need to keep these ladies -- and all of the others! -- in our prayers. I know that I have benefited so much from these boards and the prayers here, and I have learned much about myself, my family and my faults from my time here. 
__________________
Janette (4 boys - 22, 21, 15, 14)
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Angie Mc
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| Posted: Sept 29 2007 at 11:19am | IP Logged
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LisaR wrote:
just wondering here: how many hours per week/day DO the moderators spend on this board?? It just seems like it could be alot of time/effort - do any of you ever get a break, burn out, get frustrated?
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Do we really want to go here, Lisa  ? If you hit me on a bad day I might really give you an ear full,  . Let's see...hours...it really depends on the moderator and the amount of time she has to spend and the forum she moderates. It is a lot of time and effort and yes we get breaks, burn out, and get frustrated. The glue that holds it together is that we like working in this little corner of cyberspace together and serving others through this medium and (most importantly) we all support each other in putting God and family first. We understand that we're going to make mistakes but we support each other in taking the risk and we help each other to make things right when we do make mistakes. We fit together nicely because we share so much in common and we are very different in personality, temperament, and skills. The only reason you're hearing WAY too much from me on this thread - well, in addition to the fact that my dh has been out of town all week and the children can't get enough of him so they are all ignoring me - is because my specialty moderator "hat" is administration. I try to help this message board run smoothly from an organizational perspective, everything from how the board is arranged to human relation concerns. And I love it. It is a privilege to be able to moderate and do what I love professionally (Public Administration) from my home with other moderators who I love and respect and who fuel me. I love the community here and the goals we are working to achieve together. Ultimately, it is up to me to be prudent with my time, protect myself from the near occasion of sin, ask for help from other moderators or my family when I need it, pray to God that I can be an avenue for His grace, and do the job as long as it helps me to be more faithful and to be a better wife and mother. So far...so good. I do so appreciate your support and prayers - can't do it without you!
Love,
__________________
Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
About Me
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Martha
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| Posted: Sept 29 2007 at 11:27am | IP Logged
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Jane wrote
Quote:
| I would think that since Elizabeth was the one promoting this method and trying to inform everyone else about it, she would be willing to answer those questions. If the discussion of the spiritual aspects went beyond her abilities to answer, she could have stated that and we could have moved on. |
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Natalia
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| I don't think anybody was promoting the Waldorf method. |
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I agree with this part of Natalia's response. We all use so many different materials. I know I post things on my blog just like everyone else. However, that is less "promoting" than simple "Hey this is how I think and what we are doing/using." If that helps someone else, then that's great. If not, well that's fine by me too.
Elizabeth wrote:
Quote:
I'm going to be completely dedicated to my children and to the joy that should come with celebrating feasts. I cannot do that and constantly be checking threads where people are demanding something of me. As much as I love people here, no one here has a "right" to me or my time.
Someone asked if it's a fulltime job. There have been weeks it's more than that. That is completely and totally inappropriate.
She turns five once in a lifetime. I mean to be there, totally, for it. My decision has far less to do with any of you and far more to do to my family and the fulfillment of my vocation.
This entire fiasco has given me great food for thought. |
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 Good for you, Elizabeth! THAT is all the neat stuff we other moms enjoy learning about here, on blogs, and in books such as yours. The actual life of homeschooling. And if you were to stop doing that for the boards, well that simply wouldn't make sense now would it?  I'm sorry you felt you had to even take time out of your happy family occassions for this thread. 
However, please do NOT let this dialog going on here make you second guess the value of these boards and your kind generosity to us all. I for one, and I'm sure there are many others, do not feel a "right" to your time. But we do feel blessed by it.
To others, I think it's important to remember that this board is FREE for our use and is moderated for FREE by VOLUNTEERS. Please, remember that one day this board may not be here for us if we do not respect it and those who dedicate their time to it.
If we were paying for it or they made money off it, that would be an entirely different issue, but that is not the case. We are each guests being welcomed into each other's homes to share about our faith and homeschooling. 
__________________
Martha
mama to 7 boys & 4 girls
Yes, they're all ours!
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chicken lady
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| Posted: Sept 29 2007 at 1:21pm | IP Logged
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cathhomeschool wrote:
(FYI -- in case it isn't very apparent from this post, I tend to be one of the less senstive moderators!  ) |
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I don't think so...... Try again Janette you are very sensitive and loving
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Mary G
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| Posted: Sept 29 2007 at 3:22pm | IP Logged
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I would just like to make one comment here. We have over 1000 registered members on this Forum. There will be times when what a moderator does will be disliked by some and cheered by others.
It's interesting to note that at the same time the question was posed by Erica about why some posts are closed, I rec'd two pm's from members who applauded the fact that we had closed the thread and that appreciated what we are trying to do here.
---***---
Ok, now taking off my moderator cap for a minute and being just a plain ol' member, can we please now get back to trying our best to educate our children instead of going round and round about the same things?
__________________
MaryG
3 boys (22, 12, 8)2 girls (20, 11)
my website that combines my schooling, hand-knits work, writing and everything else in one spot!
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aussieannie
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| Posted: Sept 29 2007 at 4:05pm | IP Logged
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My personal experience in the past is boards that are not moderated enough and do not stick by their own mission statement or outline can do far more damage to their community than boards who moderate carefully and prudently (which is what I experience here.)
This place is able to be the haven it is because of excellent moderators who show fabulous discretion and wisdom in the job they do.
Please continue to do what you all do best ladies!!
__________________
Under Her Starry Mantle
Spiritual Motherhood for Priests
Blessed with 3 boys & 3 girls!
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Lissa
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| Posted: Sept 29 2007 at 5:45pm | IP Logged
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Mary G wrote:
I would just like to make one comment here. We have over 1000 registered members on this Forum. There will be times when what a moderator does will be disliked by some and cheered by others.
It's interesting to note that at the same time the question was posed by Erica about why some posts are closed, I rec'd two pm's from members who applauded the fact that we had closed the thread and that appreciated what we are trying to do here.
---***---
Ok, now taking off my moderator cap for a minute and being just a plain ol' member, can we please now get back to trying our best to educate our children instead of going round and round about the same things? |
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Mary, with all due respect, I have to say that I think this is an important issue to the health of the forum, and if numerous members are expressing some questions and concerns about how exactly moderation works, perhaps there ought to be *more* discussion about it rather than less.
Having sat on both sides of the desk here (the moderator side, and the member side), I know there are different ways of understanding this issue. Indeed, one of the main reasons I gave up moderating was because my take on what the job entails was out of step with how other moderators viewed it, and I knew I was beginning to make a pest of myself in constantly asking "why lock threads at all?" and such.
(Let me hasten to add that I had nothing to do with Erica's posing that question here--that was entirely her own insight, and the fact that I have asked similar questions behind the scenes over the years is unrelated.)
One thing I always wondered was whether it would be helpful to the moderators to clearly define the role and lay out written guidelines for handling forum issues...perhaps that has happened since I resigned; I don't know. At the time, it was not seen as necessary by the majority. I still think it could be a big time & headache saver for you all—for example, I know that many members tend to fire off PMs to Elizabeth when another member has caused offense, and I thought it might help to make sure all forum members knew to go to the appropriate forum moderator first (so that not everything would fall on Elizabeth's plate). Again, I've been way out of the loop for many months, so perhaps that policy has already been put in place.
As for the to-lock-or-not-to-lock question, it's no secret that I've always been squarely on the "let the conversation roll" side in that debate. I know there are two distinct sides to that question. For me, having someone else make a decision to shut down a conversation has always felt like a violation. It effectively decides who gets the last word (usually leaving at least one party feeling like a victim of injustice) and unfortunately tends to convey a sense of rebuke. I *know* the moderators do not always intend rebuke, but I think that the sense of rebuke is nonetheless present.
Not that "getting the last word" or even *winning a debate* is the primary concern—but it is a question of fairness, isn't it? If a member asks a fair question, and doesn't feel like the question was answered, and presses for clarification, and the thread is locked, the fact is that the decision to lock the thread terminates the possibility of the member's honest question being addressed on the forum. The member is then left to decide whether to stay and participate in other threads (which requires swallowing frustration, embarrassment, and feelings of injustice) or to leave a beloved source of fellowship and information. I'm sure all of us can imagine how painful a position that must be.
As some of you have said, it is a serious and weighty decision to lock a thread. In my experience, the decision is usually made out of a sense of urgency (gotta put this fire out before it gets worse), and it is so difficult to make a serious decision in haste.
Also, any situation in which the a conflict is between a forum member and a moderator (as opposed to two forum members) seems to me to require especially sensitive handling. In that circumstance,* it is inevitable that the moderator will be seen as the person getting the last word--when probably the role of leadership requires erring on the side of charity in terms of giving others their say.
*edited to clarify: in that circumstance, if the thread is locked
Sincerely hoping these thoughts are helpful,
__________________
Lissa
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chicken lady
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| Posted: Sept 29 2007 at 6:14pm | IP Logged
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Lissa I agree with you on one hand. example: last year we were discussing smoking. I and others pointed out that this is not a sin, rather a protestant position. A moderator who is anti-smoking shut it down so as to not offend our protestant members. Hmmmm I thought this was a Catholic forum? That ircked me, but I let it go.
Now the other side, I have seen and been, recently the victim of an absurd and hurtful attack. Gratefully the moderators pulled it and locked the discussion immediatly. THAT is charity, that is VERY needed, not just for me, but anyone who is being hurt. It is not a matter of over-sensitivity, it is a matter of justice and courtesy. We do not have the right on a public forum to run people into the mud.
I think Elizabeth was treated unjustly on the Waldorf thread, I do think it prudent to ask people to back down. It would be wonderful in a perfect world if this were not the case, but we need to be realistic.
I think your ideas of informing members to go to individual moderators first is a great idea. I think Elizabeth is trying to preform a service here, and instead she is made out to be a guru. This is not fair to her or any other person we might find helpful.
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MicheleQ
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| Posted: Sept 29 2007 at 6:55pm | IP Logged
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Lissa wrote:
| I have to say that I think this is an important issue to the health of the forum, and if numerous members are expressing some questions and concerns about how exactly moderation works, perhaps there ought to be *more* discussion about it rather than less. |
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I agree. It's not like I don't have other things to do - goodness that would be a rarity indeed!
But this forum, along with the many blogs and several other forums that overlap members (FCL, Magnum Opus, CCM etc.) is part of our online community and I think we need to be able to talk [in depth] about issues that are important to us.
I've moderated forums for years and I have to admit there was a time when I too was quick to shut down anything that looked like it was getting heated. Part of that was because I knew there were some members who were more thin skinned than others and part of it was just my inexperience (not that I am attributing those things to anyone here, simply speaking of myself!) but I have learned over the years that there can be great value in getting down to the nitty gritty of a discussion. Having a "let the conversation roll" attitude has taught me that given the opportunity Christian women WILL treat one another with love and respect and even if someone steps out of line (and gosh don't we all from time to time in life?) it's rarely of a truly vicious and nasty nature and usually followed quickly by an apology. Time and again I have seen conversations that looked like they were going down a bad path resolve in a truly beautiful way. That isn't to say they didn't need moderation (a reminder to think before posting, assume the best of the other etc.) but it has been RARE that I have had to cut someone off completely.
chicken lady wrote:
| I think Elizabeth was treated unjustly on the Waldorf thread, I do think it prudent to ask people to back down. |
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Molly I went back and looked and for the life of me I don't see where. I saw challenge yes but in charity (and shouldn't we be able to ask challenging questions of one another? I sure hope so.), but I didn't see injustice. It's a big thread so I could have missed it but I did double check.
__________________
Michele Quigley
wife to my prince charming and mom of 10 in Lancaster County, PA USA
http://michelequigley.com
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Martha
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| Posted: Sept 29 2007 at 7:27pm | IP Logged
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Lissa wrote:
| I *know* the moderators do not always intend rebuke, but I think that the sense of rebuke is nonetheless present. |
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hmm, I think there is a difference between "rebuke" and "questioned concern". I think it's very rare that I've seen an occassion of rebuke, which I tend to see as, "That's wrong of you. Stop it." Far more often, I see what appears to be honest concern for tone/implication, such as, "Hey that's rather strong language... you sound angry... the church does say..."
And only ONCE have I ever felt publicly rebuked by a moderator on these forums. Apparently there was a problem with stating an opinion on the actions of a litigant in a court case. I was a bit baffled that it was perceived as okay to discuss in abstract, but not in real world people/events.  I don't know. I was more baffled than hurt though.
Lissa wrote:
The member is then left to decide whether to stay and participate in other threads (which requires swallowing frustration, embarrassment, and feelings of injustice) or to leave a beloved source of fellowship and information.
As some of you have said, it is a serious and weighty decision to lock a thread. In my experience, the decision is usually made out of a sense of urgency (gotta put this fire out before it gets worse), and it is so difficult to make a serious decision in haste. |
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I think most causes of embarrassment or feelings of injustice involve 1 or 2 things. The first being public rebuke, being told basicly in some form, "You can't state that opinion/question here."
Most red blooded americans tend to raise their hackles at such a notion. That, or they feel like they've committed some horrible taboo.
The other is if someone or a group starts to feel oppressed. IOW, they aren't too worried because of any one event, but they have seen/felt enough chastisement on the boards to feel they can't really feel comfortable posting at all. They are forever waiting for a mod to bring the hammer down.
Maybe I've been lucky here? But honestly, I'm a pretty blunt person and have rarely experienced that on this board. It's one of the reasons I like it here so much.
Lissa wrote:
| Also, any situation in which the a conflict is between a forum member and a moderator (as opposed to two forum members) seems to me to require especially sensitive handling. In that circumstance,* it is inevitable that the moderator will be seen as the person getting the last word--when probably the role of leadership requires erring on the side of charity in terms of giving others their say. |
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I disagree with you on this. In my expereince, there needs to be a certain level of understanding that "the buck stops here" and that basicly means that the mods should and do get the last word.
Bottom line, this board and most others are a SERVICE to the community. So far, 4RL is serving us wonderfully and at great personal expense of time/effort to the moderators.
In doing this great service, they should have an understanding of what this community needs and if they feel it is a need they feel called to assist with. As far as I can tell, the 4RL mods seems to have a good handle on what *I* need: an open ended place to discuss ALL things Catholic and homeschooling, in charity, with other Catholic homeschoolers of all "makes and models".
As long as a mod gives warning that a thread is getting a bit too heated or off topic or suggest that it has run it's course - there shouldn't be too many closed threads.
If a particuliar person is getting too ... strident... that should be addressed by charitable PM and closed if that doesn't change demeanor.
And honestly, I haven't seen too many closed threadds here? It would take mroe than the Waldorf thread to make me feel the mods were going lock-happy.
Again, I am NOT a moderator on this forum (and hearing about all this kind of makes me go between wishing I were and glad I'm not! ), just saying this is my experience for whatever little that is worth to anyone.
I'll state again just because I think the mods really need to hear it:
Thank you and you are doing fine so far as I can tell from hear and I hope that 4RL sticks around to support homeschoolers for many many years to come thanks to your fine efforts!
__________________
Martha
mama to 7 boys & 4 girls
Yes, they're all ours!
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Angie Mc
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| Posted: Sept 29 2007 at 7:31pm | IP Logged
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In defense of all the forum moderators here, I need to say that this thread has moved beyond the original question of why moderators close threads, which we did our best to explain, to "Let's tell the moderators how to do their job." This is publicly insulting because no moderator asked for advice on how to do their job. If anyone would like to share any further advice, constructive criticsm, or help on how to moderate a message board, please PM me as a board moderator.
Now...can you see how I am between a rock and a hard place? If I lock this thread? If I don't lock it? I'm putting this in your hands, members. The forum moderators here have asked you honestly and kindly for a break. We need it. As a board moderator, I'm now asking you to give these fine ladies a break. Is that too much to ask? Please let this be the last post, not to give me the final word, not to shut off discussion forever, not to embarrass anyone, but to simply say yes to the ladies who have said yes to you, day in and day out for years. I thank you in advance.
Love,
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Martha
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| Posted: Sept 29 2007 at 7:34pm | IP Logged
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MicheleQ wrote:
But this forum, along with the many blogs and several other forums that overlap members (FCL, Magnum Opus, CCM etc.) is part of our online community and I think we need to be able to talk [in depth] about issues that are important to us.
I've moderated forums for years and I have to admit there was a time when I too was quick to shut down anything that looked like it was getting heated. Part of that was because I knew there were some members who were more thin skinned than others and part of it was just my inexperience (not that I am attributing those things to anyone here, simply speaking of myself!) but I have learned over the years that there can be great value in getting down to the nitty gritty of a discussion. Having a "let the conversation roll" attitude has taught me that given the opportunity Christian women WILL treat one another with love and respect and even if someone steps out of line (and gosh don't we all from time to time in life?) it's rarely of a truly vicious and nasty nature and usually followed quickly by an apology. Time and again I have seen conversations that looked like they were going down a bad path resolve in a truly beautiful way. That isn't to say they didn't need moderation (a reminder to think before posting, assume the best of the other etc.) but it has been RARE that I have had to cut someone off completely.
shouldn't we be able to ask challenging questions of one another? I sure hope so.), |
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This I agree with 100%! *sigh* you say things so much better than me and you aren't nearly as long winded about it either! thanks. 
__________________
Martha
mama to 7 boys & 4 girls
Yes, they're all ours!
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LisaR
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I still really would love to know how many hours/ how much time you all spend moderating. would it be better if the lists were closed down during the day for a 4 hour period? how can your job be made eaiser? and I'm just a fusser but I guess maybe it is none of my business? how can we support you? I honestly love a good "discussion" and yet I can see that the better or deeper or even heated it gets, it just can be a huge cause for stress for the moderators. what is the answer? and last question
was it ever this hard on yahoo groups like CCM, FCL, and so on? I'm wondering if because the emails come in all jumbled up over there, it gives a bit of a breather, or space between posts?
When you can go here to a "heated section" all sequestered off by itself, or, you are getting e mail updates in your inbox about a hot topic, it CAN seem to go on and on...
just wondering here,
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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Cay Gibson
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Ladies,
As a moderator, I wanted to share something I heard yesterday. I went to a talk for our hs group put on by a Sister of St. Paul. In her talk she told the children how she was led to the religious life. By many different paths.
In the end she was sharing how God used something completely secular and something she had avoided all her life to finally influence her decision to become a nun. There was one sentence that stuck with me.
She said, "God can use anything."
I suppose, in my own human weakness, that this means God can even use Waldorf if He so chooses. I have always believed that God can move mountains. All we need is faith.
I'd also like to add that I use to be ultra-sensitive. My dear husband cured me of taking everyone's opinion and everyone's attitude upon myself. I am now raising at least two, perhaps three, children who are ultra-sensitive as I was at their age.
I use on them the same strategies my husband used on me (humor, love, and lots of understanding) to get them out of themselves and to remember...it isn't all about you.
Everyone---with the boards closed this Sunday---please read and pay careful attention to the Gospel reading about the rich man and Lazarus. Our way to salvation is in thinking of others above ourselves because...it isn't all about us.
Pray for one another. Pray for this forum. Pray for the moderators. Pray for our Pope who weighs decisions and disagreements such as these every day of his administration yet does so with Christ-like faith.
Last, but never least, just let it go.
Let the Waldorf discussion and conversation go...and let God.
Who cares whether Waldorf is what it is or is not what it is not? Are any of us experts? God can make it anything He wants it to be.
Just let go...and let God.
I don't think Mother Teresa would have ever sat in a forum---public or private---and debated over an issue. She would have gone and buttered a piece of bread for a beggar. She would have placed a cool rag on a feverish head. She would have kissed an orphan.
We are all grown, Catholic women who do not need hand-holding. But our families do. Where is our example, ladies? Wheere is our treasure? Where is our God?
He is not in the middle of this conversation.
Go serve your family and God, then come back and join us Monday morning in prayer and fellowship.
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Why are threads closed? (
Topic Closed)
