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LisaR
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| Posted: Sept 24 2007 at 9:37am | IP Logged
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Kim F wrote:
Both Steiner and Montessori were focused on specific populations of children in need. A healthy homeschool is probably starting out in a different place and need not employ drastic measures. In other words you need not choose between oral storytelling and picture books or between independent work stations and group projects led by mom. There is a place for both.
Kim |
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YES YES YES!!! I have tried with varying degrees of success to ask those involved in either "movement" to look at the original purpose and intent of the founder. What population was being schooled? why?
It really was on my mind to be outspoken as it is easy to see that thousands can be spent on a Montessori homeschool...how ironic when one meditates on the origins....
thank you for your insightful post. lots to mull over...
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Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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missionfamily
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Oh...I really have loved this thread and have done so much mulling over and praying...and I think the Holy Spirit has really clarified for me what it is my family will benefit from in this foray into Waldorf...and I really want to write a long post...only the morning rhythm beckons and is already delayed due to a budget meeting with dh this morning and a major lip gash from the edge of the coffee table....maybe later today...or perhaps sometime after midnight...oh well.
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Colleen
dh Greg
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Footprints on the Fridge
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cathhomeschool
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Kim F wrote:
| Donna would stress that while Waldorf begins gently it does value academic excellence in upper grades. The idea is that these gentle beginnings best foster that success down the road. |
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So how would one go about doing this if your kids are already in the "upper grades" (or almost there -- 7th and 8th)? I 'get' how to do this with my littles. Just not sure how to begin with the older ones.
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Bookswithtea
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Kim F wrote:
| Books, I would start by adding a 'circle time' to kick off your day. Begin with a morning offering, a song, a poem, and some movement. Work in storytelling to your day. Nature walks. Collect your finds on a seasonal table.Kim |
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OK, every time I see the term "circle time" I get goofy preschool images in my head. Don't get me wrong, my almost 5 yr old would like it, but I'm not sure how my almost 11 yr old would respond.  I'm walking that line right now between catering to the younger one who needs stuff at her level and the older one (I've got one in the middle, too...almost 8). I'd really like this morning time to work with everyone.
Am I picturing it differently than it really is? Morning offering, poetry (seasonal themes, I am guessing?). Yes. Finger play or a song? Not sure how that would go over. What kinds of songs? sitting in a circle on the floor doesn't feel homeschooley and natural in a home environment to me. Am I misunderstanding? But maybe gathering in a sacred type space might not feel unnatural?
Also, what do you mean by "movement"?
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and  due 9/10
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Bookswithtea
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Elizabeth wrote:
| I would go with Donna's kindergarten book if all your children are under 8. Otherwise, I'd get her Curriculum Overview if you want just one book to highlight and bookmark and get a feel for the deal.I started with the K and the first grade and found myself wanting the Overview to put it all together. Here's the link. It's more expensive than the kindy book so that's not much help. Interestingly, I rarely see Donna Simmons' stuff in the used market (and I'm a frequenter of all the used Waldorf curriculum lists and eBay). I think that's a good sign, though it leaves us with few buying options. |
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OK, so here's the question...if Waldorf is more a young kid's thing, should I even be trying to include the almost 11 yr old? Should I just focus on the younger two girls and let the older one join in the crafts? That makes a difference in what I should buy! lol
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~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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Bookswithtea
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Now my mind is all focused right now on rhythm and seasons. I was thinking that it would make more sense for a HOME environment to mimic the natural rhythms of a home (homeschools so often interrupt a natural home environment, don't you think?).
So I was thinking about how women of old did things. Our family's scripture verse is Jeremiah 6:16:
"This is what the Lord says:
Stand at the crossroads and look;
ask for the ancient paths,
ask where the good way is and walk in it,
and you will find rest for your souls."
I was thinking about a later starting time, to make room for a morning load of laundry in, making muffins for breakfast or whatever... and starting slow food in time for dinner. Then a gathering time for prayer, etc. Then breaking for independent schoolwork, then gathering for a main lesson. Clean up and getting ready for lunch would be next. After lunch would be read aloud time. Then finishing up any independent work for the olders...then handcrafts? And afternoon snack or tea time could follow. I'm more inclined to afternoon nature walks than I am morning ones, but I do confess to NEVER seeming to be able to keep these on the schedule. If I get behind, it seems like this is the first thing dropped, every time.
Now, in a home environment, there would be some afternoon food prep. time, or baking time for the next day, something like that...that would coincide with dinner preparation, I think. But I am running out of hours in the day. And I don't want to be stressing everyone out, as I want to be respectful of the rhythm and rest times and the therapeutic value of this, as Kim said. And kids still need time to do their own thing...maybe handcrafts wouldn't be a daily thing in order to make time for independent hobbies or tree climbing on a nice day? I have a hard time imagining sitting inside making felt creatures when the weather is beautiful, kwim?
Those of you implementing these ideas, what are your home rhythms looking like?
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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AnaB
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Wow! I had never even heard of Waldorf before till now!
I'm more in line with how Books describes her day in the last post. That pretty much is my day. Some of the ideas or details of Waldorf and Montessori seem more geared towards younger children than older. Is that true? Also, with bigger blocks of time...I love that thought, except I seem to lose my children if our lesson time goes for more than 20 minutes. It also seems to be too much information than they can really digest. Also, waiting a day for their narration/illustrating page they complain that they can't remember enough.
To be really honest, I feel so torn so much of the time with splitting myself and my focus from the older kids to my toddler. I can't seem to completely cater to both in the same day. So, I've looked for curriculum that requires little to no teacher prep, we gather together at the table for our main lesson (Latin, History, Science--all these I read aloud), we break for lunch, then gather round for a tea time read aloud in the afternoon. In the meantime, my olders have some independent work, I do FIAR with my 3yo and she naps during the tea time. We don't do anything out of the house except church and piano lessons. All this helps but I still feel like we lack rhythm and gentleness and beauty in our day.
I love the sense of rhythm and seasons, but in Miami, we really don't experience them. We have drier times and rainier times (though they don't always fall in the same months every year). We'll have a few days of cool weather and I think it's FINALLY Autumn, and then it will get back in the 90s. This is where God has planted me for now (we're always open to moving but dh's health is not stable enough to leave where we are). How can I incorporate some of these nuggets of beauty from these methods (waldorf, cm, montessori). I do want to glean what I can from these sources, but I need help in a more practical/homeschooling sense rather than more of a philosophical sense. Maybe my brain is a little too fried to sit and really chew the cud on these philosophies. I hope I can still benefit from your suggestions though!
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His By Grace, AnaB blessed WIFE to Jeff and mama to 4 blessings!
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Elizabeth
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Bookswithtea wrote:
| OK, so here's the question...if Waldorf is more a young kid's thing, should I even be trying to include the almost 11 yr old? Should I just focus on the younger two girls and let the older one join in the crafts? That makes a difference in what I should buy! lol |
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It's not more a young kids' thing. It spans the ages. You would like the overview because it explains how this works through the grades. But sit tight. I think we have Donna Simmons coming aboard to field questions. 
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Rebecca
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Bookswithtea wrote:
| OK, every time I see the term "circle time" I get goofy preschool images in my head. Don't get me wrong, my almost 5 yr old would like it, but I'm not sure how my almost 11 yr old would respond. I'm walking that line right now between catering to the younger one who needs stuff at her level and the older one (I've got one in the middle, too...almost 8). I'd really like this morning time to work with everyone. |
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Books, I am right there with you. If you look at my signature line, I am working with similar ages. My three youngest have circle time while my older one works on his independent work. I can say that I thought he (the oldest) would want nothing to do with circle time which is why he was not included in it intially. He did join in for a couple songs one day and actually led circle time this morning for his siblings in my stead. :)
Bookswithtea wrote:
| Am I picturing it differently than it really is? Morning offering, poetry (seasonal themes, I am guessing?). Yes. Finger play or a song? Not sure how that would go over. What kinds of songs? sitting in a circle on the floor doesn't feel homeschooley and natural in a home environment to me. Am I misunderstanding? But maybe gathering in a sacred type space might not feel unnatural? Also, what do you mean by "movement"? |
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Here is what we have been doing. I think I will change the songs and poem every four to six weeks.
Light the Candle
Opening Prayer (morning offering)
"Dear Lord Jesus,
I give you today,
All that I think
and do and say."
"Today is (give the day and date)"
Songs (most with movement):
Kookaburra
Grand Old Duke of York
Mares Eat Oats
Head and Shoulders, Knees and Toes
Poetry: The Owl and the Pussycat
Ring around the Rosy
My Bonnie
Closing Verse (from Oak Meadow's suggestion)
"May my hands work with care
My heart work with love
And my mind work with attention."
(Kids take turns each day blowing out the candle)
FWIW, we do not sit in a circle, mainly because our home is so small that there is no floor big enough for four people to make a circle. We kind of make a small cluster of people in the middle of the room. 
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Genevieve
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You have actions with Kookaburra? Could you describe them? We love the song around here! My circle time meshed with my read-alouds. Sometime between books my toddler would get bored and jump on my head and such. That's when I pull out my books on fingerplays, songs, poetry, Seasonary Treasury that contains verses, poetry,creative drama, fingerplays, games and more! We do different ones each day because my kids do get bored. So nope, we have no circle. I'm on the couch while they prance around me. They pick their selections based on the pictures and off we go. Then we settle into some more read alouds. I do establish a daily rhythm pegged with prayers - morning offeratory, angelus, divine mercy, rosary and bedtime prayers. 
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UK Mum
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Im late to joining this discussion. Aspects of waldorf appeal to me too. My friend's husband is a steiner teacher...I find it very interesting to talk with them both. She is from slovakia..it seems to be more prevelant in northern Europe.
I ordered this book yesterday...I couldnt find out much about it, but it appears to be very interesting..
A Journey Through Waldorf Homeschooling
Kindergarten
New Edition - includes CD with illustrations and audio material
Melisa Nielson
Contributions by Kimberly Rivera
Foreword by Alan Whitehead
Softbound
$18.00
Welcome a lively little book that introduces the wonders of Waldorf homeschooling from the heart of someone who has done it. Melisa Nielson originally began her book as a companion to Susan Whitehead's seasonal kindergarten books, but it grew and deepened to the point where it will guide and nurture your efforts through any seasonally themed Waldorf kindergarten suggestions.
What I most like about A Journey Through Waldorf Homeschooling is the amount of life on each page -- the ideas and activities that are recounted here clearly came into the world with the full force of the author's creativity and imagination. The wonderful news is that she hands over to us not just a usable description of what she did, but her enthusiasm and joy in the doing of them. It is this latter quality which will nourish any children fortunate enough to be touched by it.
This is a book to be done, not just read. And in the doing, your own life and happiness will spring to life for your child.
Contents:
Foreword by Alan Whitehead
Introduction from the author
Intro to Waldorf and Anthroposophy
Book resource list
Supplies list
The kindergarten years
Rhythm: Day, Month, Year
Festivals
The Nature Table
Planning your year/ Using main lesson
blocks/Working with multi aged children
Using seasonal books and anthologies
Painting, form drawing, and handwork with young children
Circle Time
Week by week schedule
Favorite verses and circle time songs
Compiled Waldorf Curriculum
Recommended Vendors
In closing
Appendix: recipes
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trish
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Elizabeth wrote:
Bookswithtea wrote:
| OK, so here's the question...if Waldorf is more a young kid's thing, should I even be trying to include the almost 11 yr old? Should I just focus on the younger two girls and let the older one join in the crafts? That makes a difference in what I should buy! lol |
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It's not more a young kids' thing. It spans the ages. You would like the overview because it explains how this works through the grades. But sit tight. I think we have Donna Simmons coming aboard to field questions. |
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That would be great!
This thread just keeps getting better and better!
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~ Trish ~
Wife to Les
Mom to 8 Wonderful Kids
+AMDG+
Saintly Soaps
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msclavel
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I emailed Christopherus with a question and they answered right away. And I will be ordering from them very very soon (today...maybe ) Very very excited about things to come.
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Bookswithtea
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My itty bitty experiment today...
I mentioned earlier we were starting our first ever lapbook today? Well, its got prepackaged and freebies from the net planned (fall/apple theme), but I was musing on how to inspire the girls to put time and effort into it this week, to have something they are really proud of. Its nice to have some preplanned stuff, but I didn't want it to be all preplanned, kwim? This morning in the shower I decided that instead of lecturing them, I was going to just do my own lapbook (even though I should tell you I have had a phobia about lapbooks for a year now).
So I pulled out a favorite poetry book and found several poems I liked on apples, Johnny Appleseed and September. I used them all for my copywork on scrapbook quality cardstock. Then I pulled out a book I have on apples and traced a detailed diagram of an apple blossom. I labeled everything and then got out my one set of very nice colored pencils and tried to imitate the watercolor-like effect in the book (sigh...I really wished I had watercolor pencils at that moment). Well...within about 30 minutes I had ALL the girls gathered around me. My oldest then asked for the poetry book and went and found her own poem to copy and then started her own apple blossom tracing. The other two cannot wait for tomorrow to start up again on their lapbooks.
Later on the girls started asking about their tea sets (we haven't had them out lately...too hot!). So I thought about it and decided to put THEM in charge of a weekly teatime, which I have never been able to pull off because of babies/toddlers at my ankles. The oldest is old enough to do the baking and she is great about including her sisters. They are totally excited, and I am too because I get to see what they come up with. 
I've been really conscious of trying NOT to rush things today. Its been a good day...I'm looking forward to learning more...
***Elizabeth said: It's not more a young kids' thing. It spans the ages. You would like the overview because it explains how this works through the grades. But sit tight. I think we have Donna Simmons coming aboard to field questions.***
OK, the overview will be my first purchase (well, it might be my second since I saw those Elsa Beskow books in the Magic Cabin catalogue today... ) and I am looking forward to hearing from Donna!
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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JuliaT
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UK Mum, I just found Melissa's website yesterday (http://alittlegardenflower.com -- sorry, linking never works for me here.) I have been looking at her books and, from the little that I have seen, I really like them. I like the price, too. I think that I may just buy the 1st and 3rd grade books for my two oldest.
Rebecca, thank you so much for typing out your circle time. This helped me alot to visualize how it should go. I think that we will start this this week.
Julia
mom to 3(8,6,4)
http://www.homeschoolbogger.com/Juliainsk
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Cici
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Rebecca wrote:
I do have a very detailed schedule for the day but our day does not feel rushed at all...
We do some things together like circle time, art, crafts..
My 4 yo. daughter does circle time, crafts and art as well as any read alouds that we might do.
I have a daily hand craft time in the afternoons and we work on art for forty five minutes in the morning. I bought my boys wood carving tools and one of them is also learning to knit. We have done some felt people as well during craft time. |
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I know this is going to sound nosey, but I'm going to ask anyway, I have such a hard time with organizing "it all" and schedules. Could you share how your schedule looks? Or anyone else want to post a schedule? I just can't seem to get a handle on my day - let alone schedule it enough to have any sort of rhythmn to it. How do fit in an arts and crafts time in the morning and in the afternoon?
Typical me - I get so eager - so excited - jump in and then need to find a life ring. I read too much, and get bogged down in the "real life" of it all.
On another note - do either the OM or Christopherus programs teach how to implement the arts and crafts? My daughter wants to try them - she seems to get frustrated early and gives up. I'm sure it has something to do with my implementation (though i stress taking ones time to do a nice job - i don't emphasize perfection).
thanks
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My Sewing Blog
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Rebecca
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Christine, I can post it later tonight. If not, I'll do it in the wee hours of the am tomorrow.
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Rebecca
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I wake at 6:00 and do my self care and prayers/morning routine
Children's Schedule
6:45 Wake Up
Self Care and Morning Chores
7:30 Breakfast
All help with cleanup
8:00 Circle Time with Mom (three youngest)
DS11 Independent Reading
8:30 Art and Music Appreciation for all
(Drawing, Watercolors, Crayons, etc.)
9:15-10:30 DS Main Lesson Time with Mom
9:15 10:30 DS 11 Independent Work
(Math, Catechism, Latin, Poetry)
10:30-11:30 DS 11 Main Lesson Time with Mom
(9:15-10:30 Girls play together
10:30-11:30 DS7 plays with Girls)
11:30 Lunch Food prep (ds 7 helper)
All help with cleanup
12:30 Walk
1:15 Read Alouds for all
2:00 Nature Crafts/Liturgical Crafts/Handcrafts/Free Time for all
3:30 Teatime or light snack for all
4:00 Afternoon Chores for all but baby :)
4:45 Dinner Prep (ds11 helper)
6:00 Dinner
All cleanup
Free Time for Boys
7:00 Girls Baths/Self Care/Lay out clothes
7:30 Boys' Showers/Self Care/Lay Out Clothes
7:30 Girls' Read Alouds
8:00 Girl's Bedtime
8:30 Boys' Read Alouds/Free Time
9:00 Boys' Bedtime
While the schedule has a lot to it, we don't feel rushed. The kids have really seemed to enjoy the schedule thus far. I rotate the girls' toys so they are not playing with the same things each day. For example, on Mondays, I take out the wooden trains, Tuesday the dollhouse, etc. They are in the open room adjoining where I do the main lesson work with the boys. They are playing within two or three feet of me so it gets a little noisy but it works for us.
My boys are gone two nights a week for Scouts so we scrap the nightly schedule then.
Also, we have only been using this plan for a couple of weeks so it has not been tested over time and various seasons. So far, so good.
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Rebecca
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Wanted to mention, having owned the Little Garden Flower books, that they do warrant the purchase of supplemental books to be used in conjunction with the syllabi. I had thought that perhaps they were general guides for each grade but they are not. The books used in the weekly plans would need to be purchased separately. This was a slight deterrant for me. I did not end up using Melisa's plans and eventually resold the books.
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hereinantwerp
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a book--
Like many of you I have been intrigued by Waldorf--
for my highly artistic and creative, and very non-academic 8 year old boy, I realize we need to do something else! Right now we are taking a break from just about everything except read-aloud and reading practice while I try to figure that something out!! So I have been scouring nearby libraries for books (no money right now! Or the christophari stuff just looks so good, I would buy it!), this website bob and nancy's bookshop has a lot of good ideas for reading, kind of an "annotated" list. I did order one little book used which they recommended which I am really enjoying, called Teaching as a Lively Art by Marjorie Spock. One nice thing about it is it is SHORT  , and just gives a nice, descriptive picture of what happens in these Waldorf classrooms without being technical or overwhelming. For those who might want a simple but practical sort of overview. It's a very inspiring read!
I am struggling so much with school. My oldest is steaming along great with a very structured, independant program, but I am struggling so much with the other 2. My middle child resists ANY kind of school at all, beyond read-aloud and drawing, and I am so tired of fighting him  . Also just struggling myself and feel like--if I am going to continue doing school at all it perhaps needs to be something therapeutic--for me--! I am just way too stressed!
Is Waldorf therapeutic for moms, do you think? Slowing down, honoring seasonal rhythms, doing handcrafts (which I enjoy and always wish I had time for!), etc. sounds just wonderful. But the last thing on earth I need is to get excited about one more "system", try to impose it on everyone, and have it not work! However, the other "systems" have been designed around my oldest, and now I am realizing I need to focus on the younger one, that he really does need a completely different style. Another thing is I get very frustrated trying to do crafts & projects with a 2 year old around. (She hasn't napped in months, and goes to bed fairly late, so there's no opportunity when she isn't around!) I just don't find handcrafts relaxing in these circumstances--in another year maybe--!
I am also concerned because I feel my kids are way too dependant on media (we DO limit computer time & movies more strictly than most families I know, it just feels like such a constant conflict, and I sense some emotional dependancy on these things in them), Waldorf has my entire sympathy with the idea of just completely nixing that stuff, but I feel like the fallout would be quite terrible. And once they get older, and certain activities feel very important from their point of view, should you just come in and "nix it" like that? And I also confess I use these things for a "break", when dh is gone many nights, or the 2 year old does not nap, it gives me a little space--but at a cost. Bleh.
One thing about the Christophari stuff in particular that appeals to me is just the basic help with--uhhh--parenting. I am not naturally a very "nurturing" person, am trying to learn to be more so, especially with my 3rd child now. Today I was looking at one of her books for earlier childhood on movement and fingerplays, and the sample just intrigued me, that here, maybe, was something that could help me in practical ways to be more the kind of parent I WANT to be. I also listened to the free audio sample about therapeutic waldorf, and I just loved some of the things she had to say about children in general. It's my heart to live and do these things but somehow, the "natural knack" for it is lacking  , but in God's grace I am hoping to learn and do better. have to save my pennies for those christophari books . . . ! I would love to hear more comments on specific ones that are most helpful . . .
Sorry that is sooo rambling , I am so interested in this but trying to work the bugs out and dealing with a very low, low energy level in myself, and tempted to just put child #2 in public school at this point  . Hopefully can "hang in there" through through this rough spell.
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Angela Nelson
Mother to Simon (13), Calvin (9), and Lyddie Rose (3)
my blog: live and learn
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Waldorf (
