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Bookswithtea
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So I'm thinking about this 'block of time' idea...particularly for my high schooler. I'm wondering if I moved two days worth of work onto one day and dropped another subject that day that it might make things smoother and feel less stressful?
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Donna Marie
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Bookswithtea wrote:
| So I'm thinking about this 'block of time' idea...particularly for my high schooler. I'm wondering if I moved two days worth of work onto one day and dropped another subject that day that it might make things smoother and feel less stressful? |
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Books,
I do this all of the time...with many things. The kids prefer it and it is less stress all around. Otherwise I get the "rabbit running over hot coals" feeling about our work. I really don't think God wants me to be that stressed out. My older ones (13yo twins) say they much prefer this too. We would rather really dig into something and have a real good look around then just briefly visit it...not a hard and fast rule mind you, but it has enabled me to let my hair down a bit 
God love you!
Donna Marie from NJ
hs momma to 7dc 
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God love you!
Donna Marie from NJ
hs momma to 9dc!!
Finding Elegant Simplicity
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LisaR
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Who exactly is Donna Simmons? I have clicked on the links and I am still not getting the "background" about her.
I'd love to hear from someone what they think a "TOP 5" activities/materials/goals for a young child (I am thinking age 3-6 or so) would be: for each Montessori Method and Waldorf. Like a compare and contrast??
I like the block of time idea alot. It seems to naturally occur here and a few years ago it is why I realized we could never be a MOTH family- although I did manage to eke out a morning "routine" to jump start our days. We seem to do better with large blocks of time. The olders liked doing a subject for quite awhile, especially if reading of any kind could be incorporated. They are wiggly, so took lots of very brief breaks, but it was so satisfying for them to feel they really delved into and completed quite a bit in one area.
While we are doing Seton for Paul, he will often do 2 or 3 days worth of work in one day on a few subjects of his choice.
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Lisa
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Elizabeth
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LisaR wrote:
Who exactly is Donna Simmons? I have clicked on the links and I am still not getting the "background" about her.
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Donna's Blog
More about Donna Simmons
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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LisaR
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perfect! not sure how I missed this page- but also on the sidebar is a link to "Early Years" which looks very helpful as well.
Could one look at the "roots" of Waldorf as being pure and good, and that sadly Steiner and others got the Theology wrong along the way? (even though I know Steiner is called the Father of Waldorf).
Or do we have to look at it the other way- that the foundation is "flawed" somehow but that we as Catholics can capture the good out of it and Catholicize it?
I am hoping for the former....
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Lisa
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LisaR
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LisaR wrote:
Could one look at the "roots" of Waldorf as being pure and good, and that sadly Steiner and others got the Theology wrong along the way? (even though I know Steiner is called the Father of Waldorf).
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I DO know that Steiner started out as a fairly decent Lutheran Minister, that is a better start than where he ended up theologically!
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Lisa
dh Tim '92
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Kim F
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Could one look at the "roots" of Waldorf as being pure and good, and that sadly Steiner and others got the Theology wrong along the way? (even though I know Steiner is called the Father of Waldorf).
>>
No to be completely honest one would have to say Waldorf as a school of thought was born out of the Theosophical movement. However, our Easter and Christmas and other holidays were born out of pagan movements. So I do think one can still extract the good and leave the rest regardless.
I think it is Aquinas who said that even heathens could discern truth because it is revealed in the natural world. This is how I explain what happened here. They sense that rhythm and order and beauty and nature are good because they ARE, not because Steiner said so. Following a rhythm and being orderly and creative is not a "Steiner thing", its a truth thing. We can embrace the true and the beautiful in Waldorf without attributing them to the same things Steiner did.
Kim
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trish
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I'm getting all excited again!!!  I haven't felt like this about homeschooling for awhile. I can definitely see how this will work in my family. I think I've tried so many different methods that I reached a point of "well let's just try and do.... nothing " which of course isn't very practical.
The block of time is a natural occurance here too. They love to dig deep into something on their own. The artsy stuff is a bonus for me because my children are very artistic. They love to create things. I just never seem to take the time to slow down enough to do it with them.
After looking at your blog last night last Elizabeth and seeing what you are doing with this I can actually envision this. I'm such a visual and auditory person.
I've already got big plans for our living room. It's a huge space. I guess it's called a great room. 35' by 25'. I want to split it in half and make one half the learning area. It's quite a cozy spot. It'll be so nice to have an area where the children can craft and write without constantly having to remove it from the kitchen table for meals etc. We have a fireplace that we use quite a bit too. I'm can't tell you how excited I am about this.
As for the philosophy of Waldorf... I really agree with what you said Kim and Elizabeth (quote from St. Basil). We can gleam the good and true out of it.
It looks like I'm going to order the Christopherus syllabus and gleam away.  I just can't see how my family cannot benefit from it.
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JennGM
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Kim F wrote:
| However, our Easter and Christmas and other holidays were born out of pagan movements. So I do think one can still extract the good and leave the rest regardless. |
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Bear with me, I'm just picky about semantics. I know you know this, Kim, but I'm just clarifying. Our Easter and Christmas weren't "born out of pagan movements". Easter we celebrate Christ's resurrection, and Christmas, Christ's birth. We do celebrate the feast days in the year around pre-existing pagan holidays, and some pagan customs were "baptized" and "Christianized" and incorporated into our feast days. But the essence of the feast celebrated in the Liturgy, centered around Christ's Life and Paschal Mysteries, are truly Christian and we can always claim as our own.
It just that some customs or the actual dates attached to the day have some pagan origins. And truly that should never be a stumbling block. They are now our own customs, because of Christ's redemption.
Sorry, back to the wonderful discussion.
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JennGM
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I am really enjoying this conversation, and hope I have more time to read more and soak up the information.
Rebecca wrote:
| I am using Oak Meadow syllabi this year with my 11 year old son (5th grade), my 7 year old son (2nd grade) and my preschool aged daughter (4 years old). We are not using it word by word as it is written but making adjustments to their recommendations to fit our family. I have found this really easy to do so far. |
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Rebecca, I've been pondering your posts all evening (and even in my dreams last night I was discussing them with you ). I know you have in the recent past incorporated Montessori in the home, not necessarily in entirety. Maybe this would be another thread, but I'm wondering how much of Montesori are you keeping and retaining? Methods, philosophy, materials? Are you keeping some things side-by-side? Do you find Waldorf and Montessori can flow together with your own tweaks? Are you easily able to merge the two? Because this is "Real Learning" in action, I'm just wondering your path to this point.
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Mary G
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We need to remember that we can't take anything wholly -- Steiner had his philosophy, CM had her Anglican-based theology, Montessori came from a Catholic background .... again I always take what I like and ignore the rest ... I won't/can't get into all the spiritual side of Waldorf, nor can I completely embrace all of CM ... but that's what I love about homeschooling -- I can choose what I will or won't expose my children to ...
As a side note, we need to be careful how we spread the truth -- without tearing other folks down or criticizing them for not knowing/understanding the TRUTH.
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trish wrote:
I'm getting all excited again!!! I haven't felt like this about homeschooling for awhile.
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I have been feeling the same way for the past few weeks. I've been reading the Donna Simmons resources for about 2 or 3 weeks and have just begun to incorporate some of the ideas into our learning. Infusing our day with beauty has been such a wonderful thing.
The St. Basil quote that Elizabeth shared is the way I approach this topic. There is much good in Waldorf and there is much that is unsound. Like the skillful bee we navigate within the flower and take only that which is beneficial. As far as Steiner and his philosophy, even a blind squirrel finds a few good nuts and a broken clock gets the right time twice a day.
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Mary G wrote:
| We need to remember that we can't take anything wholly -- Steiner had his philosophy, CM had her Anglican-based theology, Montessori came from a Catholic background .... again I always take what I like and ignore the rest ... I won't/can't get into all the spiritual side of Waldorf, nor can I completely embrace all of CM ... but that's what I love about homeschooling -- I can choose what I will or won't expose my children to ... |
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That's what I love about homeschooling too. I would never consider sending my children to a Waldorf school (or a Montessori school for that manner), but the good from both can filter through me and I can offer my children what I believe is most beneficial for them.
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LisaR
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Kim F wrote:
Following a rhythm and being orderly and creative is not a "Steiner thing", its a truth thing. We can embrace the true and the beautiful in Waldorf without attributing them to the same things Steiner did.
Kim |
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That is how I look at it. Anyone have a catchy name for this? ala "reallearning??" !!!
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Lisa
dh Tim '92
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Elizabeth
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I posted some quotes from Christopherus materials on my blog, so that you all could read some of what I've loved this summer. The comments are closed there so that we can keep discussing it here.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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One thing about longer blocks of time that was hard for me to envision when we discussed Waldorf several years ago on my classical egroup.... how do you fill the longer blocks of time?
Back then, I couldn't imagine doing a subject for 2 hours and not deadening the kids with boredom and disgust for the topic (which I think was why CM was a proponent of short lessons). Now I think I have a bit better picture. Still, I'd like to know how you extend a Main Lesson and still keep it productive, that is, where the kids continue to retain. Even adults have an attention fall-off after 30 minutes.
What is your "lesson plan" or routine for the Main Lessons? (wondering now if I should start a new thread -- what do you think?)
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Oh, Elizabeth! I just read those quotes and I cried. With joy. This speaks exactly to my heart at this moment. And of course, you told us this August didn't you...it's all about relationships.
"Don't worry if everybody's doing everything and that there are so many of you that nothing seems to get done! Hold onto three three things: 1)the belief that the life you have chosen, including homeschooling, is best for all of you; 2) that each of your children will learn no matter what, even if the form the learning takes is a bit unorthodox; and 3) that having a big family is in and of itself a wonder thing and that, although it may mean all sorts of compromises, the very fact of being in a large family is right and nurturing for each of your children."
Yesterday we did very few "things". At the heart of it was nearly an hour cross stitching with my 9 yo son. What a treasure.
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trish
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This is unbelievable! Almost exactly what my heart has been calling me to try and do. This summer has been a very strange one for me. Most of it was spent in a blur of morning sickness (all day). I was in survival mode. I can't remember if I read your Rhythm and Beauty post or not Elizabeth but somewhere in the back of my mind there is this vision of something similar.
Can it really be that simple? Catholic Mosaic mixed in with Waldorf, Liturgical Teas and crafts and Nature walks..... well it just sounds so lovely and calming and gentle. I can see my littles and some of my biggers listening to read alouds and painting, drawing, or sculpting with beeswax. Lots of play time and story time. I want to add some RC History read alouds too. We already have the rhythm of prayer throughout the day. Being together and not feeling the rush and frustration of trying to get 'stuff' done. How can you beat that? I did order the Christopherus syllabus ( fist grade, kindergarten, Cirriculum Overview, Nature Stories, Joyful movement, and the Form Drawing) and I really am so very glad that I did.
I must confess not much has been going on here. I'm slowly beginning to feel like we can finally begin. It's like a new and fresh start. I can't wait until the Children's Waldorf art supplies arrive. Things take longer to get to me here in Canada  .
Thanks so much everyone for your posts. You've all been a blessing to me and helping me re-discover what is important.
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Genevieve
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Kim F wrote:
| They sense that rhythm and order and beauty and nature are good because they ARE, not because Steiner said so. |
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I whole-heartedly agree! I know when I first heard about Waldorf and Steiner, I couldn't bring myself to touch it because I was worried about its underlying philosophy. Now, I have a stronger conviction in Catholicism that I can gleam some gems from Waldorf. Steiner extrapolated what he perceived from his observations that is indeed not coherent with our Faith. However, that doesn't mean that the observations aren't helpful to me. Like Mary G, I have learned to take what I need and leave the rest without worry. As I introduce more and more suggestions from Donna's kindergarten book, I have to remember that I don't have to do it all. Just enough until it doesn't jive with my family.
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Genevieve
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What really attracted me to Waldorf is the concept behind a therapeutic curriculum. The activities they stress like beeswax modeling, wet-on-wet painting and knitting truly is soothing and meditative. There have been many times when I pull out the playdough, the paints and the crayons and apply myself in the way Donna describes and I find myself relax. My children join me and we engage ourselves in half-an-hour of peaceful artistic expression.
I've especially enjoyed Donna's metaphor on rhythm in her kinder book
"Always try to keep a healthy balance during each day of active and quiet activities. Think of it in terms of breathing in and breathing out - remember too, that like the breathing of a person, this balance changes and adapts as necessary, sometimes faster, sometimes slower. "
Some things are routines like meal times and bed times. However, it helps to visualize the active and quiet times like swinging back and forth. I've become more sensitive when my children needs a transition to quiet activities and vice versa. It isn't schedule or even pegged. It's more organic and that's what I like about Donna's work. I think Elizabeth's quote also expresses how flexible Donna's view is. I keep referring to Donna as I think it is her vision of Waldorf at home that inspires me the most. It's flexible and understanding towards the family.
I haven't done any Main Lesson blocks but its concept seem to an extension of a therapeutic curriculum. I can't agree that a child would experience certain needs at certain grades or that it would be contained in a certain year. However, this
article on 9th graders and Chemistry seems like a fairly accurate description on why they choose to study certain things during certain years. There is a lot of new-agie stuff there but here'a exerpt that is possible for any teenager to feel....
"The child feels alone, restless, sometimes angry and begins to formulate questions for their teachers such as 'What really matters? What is the point of it all? Who am I?' It is a difficult passageway in life and calls for a lot of compassion from adults."
and the corresponding reasoning behind teaching Organic Chemistry
"The 15-year-olds entering the Ninth Grade should be taught in such a way that they are led to the feeling that everything in the world is important. They must learn to trust human thinking and they should experience that thinking is capable of dealing with inner as well as outer problems. In their science courses, in particular, they should realise that it is human consciousness which awakens technology and that a proper, moral technology can provide us with a better world to live in."
It's a lot of anthroposophy to wade through. Do I agree that Organic Chemistry would fulfill a teenager desire for purpose? I don't, but I'm interested in how it could be. Lissa discusses how she uses Christopherus Saints and Heros Main Lesson block to give courage to her daughter during their move. I can see the relation more directly there. I don't have Donna's Curriculum Overview and perhaps it explains such matters more explicitely.
Elizabeth, presently I know of only one Waldorf High School resource. They are the Spiritual Syllabus by Alan Whitehead from Australia It might be hard to incorporate into our Catholic Faith though.
Well, I've pondered on this long enough. Good night!
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