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momwise
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| Posted: July 24 2005 at 3:53pm | IP Logged
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tovlo4801 wrote:
| I'm curious about what you turn up in your search of history at the time. |
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Of course I quickly discovered (I'm so historically illiterate!) that a search of general items of history is way too overwhelming to wade through. However in searching education history for 1928 several interesting facts about Russia turn up. Small Comrades: Revolutionizing Childhood in Soviet Russia, 1917–1932:" Kirschenbaum's "small comrades" are the kindergarteners, the blankest slates of all, the first generation slated to grow up free of bourgeois prejudices. In fact, the more radical Bolsheviks expected them to grow up free of any parents whatsoever, for Marxism had the family facing extinction along with private property, the state, ... Officials at the "Preschool Department" of the Commissariat of Enlightenment strove to do much more than simply feed the starving millions; they mandated the organizing of kindergartens designed to educate orphans and other little ones as the revolution's first truly socialist generation. In so doing, they adopted European and United States educational theories of "free upbringing" wholesale, but with the assumption that when children were free to be themselves, they would naturally become dedicated collectivists."
Now from DIM #60: 60. Hence every form of pedagogic naturalism which in any way excludes or weakens supernatural Christian formation in the teaching of youth, is false. Every method of education founded, wholly or in part, on the denial or forgetfulness of original sin and of grace, and relying on the sole powers of human nature, is unsound. Such, generally speaking, are those modern systems bearing various names which appeal to a pretended self-government and unrestrained freedom on the part of the child, and which diminish or even suppress the teacher's authority and action, attributing to the child an exclusive primacy of initiative, and an activity independent of any higher law, natural or divine, in the work of his education.
Now forSelected moments in education from the 1920's:
"Many would call the decade of the American 1920s the decade of the Progressive Movement in Education. Progressive education espoused an experiential philosophy; an education derived more from the student than from the teacher. It was a student-driven, student-centered concept of education that attempted to foster the precarious balance between individualism and collectivism. It was a grand and idealistic experiment, indeed. Leading this pedagogical foray was the unassuming, bespectacled former school teacher, John Dewey."
The article goes on to say that it was during the 1920's that Dewey moved from American to international influence.
The Scopes trial was in 1925.
DIM #56:Not only is it impossible for faith and reason to be at variance with each other, they are on the contrary of mutual help. For while right reason establishes the foundations of Faith, and, by the help of its light, develops a knowledge of the things of God, Faith on the other hand frees and preserves reason from error and enriches it with varied knowledge. The Church therefore, far from hindering the pursuit of the arts and sciences, fosters and promotes them in many ways. For she is neither ignorant nor unappreciative of the many advantages which flow from them to mankind. On the contrary she admits that just as they come from God, Lord of all knowledge, so too if rightly used, with the help of His grace they lead to God. Nor does she prevent the sciences, each in its own sphere, from making use of principles and methods of their own. Only while acknowledging the freedom due to them, she takes every precaution to prevent them from falling into error by opposition to divine doctrine, or from overstepping their proper limits, and thus invading and disturbing the domain of Faith
I have to go play mass now  . I hope to finish up DIM soon!
__________________
Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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momwise
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| Posted: July 25 2005 at 8:54am | IP Logged
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momwise wrote:
| (I'm so historically illiterate!) |
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 No, I don't have a history of being illiterate, but I should go back and check what I've written from time to time......
There it is...the reference to Russia:
From #73:there is a country where the children are actually being torn from the bosom of the family, to be formed (or, to speak more accurately, to be deformed and depraved) in godless schools and associations, to irreligion and hatred, according to the theories of advanced socialism; and thus is renewed in a real and more terrible manner the slaughter of the Innocents.
Catholics were forbidden (as opposed to discouraged) to attend non-religious secular schools. Has there ever been another document or decree that allowed Catholics to attend? If not, there is a massive failure here on the part of families (who by the way should be receiving ongoing education from the Church)that has reaped very bitter fruits:
"We renew and confirm their declarations,[48] as well as the Sacred Canons in which the frequenting of non-Catholic schools, whether neutral or mixed, those namely which are open to Catholics and non-Catholics alike, is forbidden for Catholic children, and can be at most tolerated, on the approval of the Ordinary alone, under determined circumstances of place and time, and with special precautions.[49] Neither can Catholics admit that other type of mixed school, (least of all the so-called "ecole unique," obligatory on all), in which the students are provided with separate religious instruction, but receive other lessons in common with non-Catholic pupils from non-Catholic teachers."
Also, interesting is DIM's observance that civic society should be providing, where needed, the funds to allow Catholic children to attend Catholic schools:
"If such education is not aided from public funds, as distributive justice requires, certainly it may not be opposed by any civil authority ready to recognize the rights of the family, and the irreducible claims of legitimate liberty.
83. Where this fundamental liberty is thwarted or interfered with, Catholics will never feel, whatever may have been the sacrifices already made, that they have done enough, for the support and defense of their schools and for the securing of laws that will do them justice."
As for all the points related to CCM, Janette and Janet and Richelle have covered everything very well! Catholicizing something that already has elements of the truth is apparantly not forbidden or discouraged in this document.
This has all been very educational for me!
__________________
Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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tovlo4801
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| Posted: July 25 2005 at 9:19am | IP Logged
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momwise wrote:
| Catholics were forbidden (as opposed to discouraged) to attend non-religious secular schools. Has there ever been another document or decree that allowed Catholics to attend? |
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Gwen,
I don't have the answer to your question, but I was struck by that section of DIM too. I guess I just moved on because obviously bishops do allow Catholics to attend non-religious secular schools, but perhaps I shouldn't have moved on so quickly. I'll be watching to see if anyone else has the answer to this question.
Thanks for all your research!
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cathhomeschool
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| Posted: July 25 2005 at 9:43am | IP Logged
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tovlo4801 wrote:
| I don't have the answer to your question, but I was struck by that section of DIM too. |
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I was wondering about that section too, and thought that maybe I was misinterpreting it. Dh interpreted it as I did, though. It is an interesting point, since so many do attend public/secular schools.
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Janette (4 boys - 22, 21, 15, 14)
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Willa
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| Posted: July 31 2005 at 11:31am | IP Logged
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I think this part is the loophole.
"... and can be at most tolerated, on the approval of the Ordinary alone, under determined circumstances of place and time, and with special precautions."
Canon Law states:
"Parents are to entrust their children to those schools in which Catholic education is provided; but if they are unable to do this, they are bound to provide for their suitable Catholic education outside the schools" (CIC 798).
So the Church provides for situations where the Catholic family does not find it feasible for their children to attend Catholic schools. Obviously it's OUR duty as Catholic parents to discern that our reasons for sending our kids to public schools are not worldly ones. Plus we must ensure that our public schooled children receive religious education outside of school.
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AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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Willa
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| Posted: July 31 2005 at 12:48pm | IP Logged
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Perhaps just a bit off topic, but when I was searching for the documentation for my post above I found an article explaining how homeschooling relates to the Church's position on Catholic education --it helped clarify my thinking on the subject a bit.
Homeschooling is not a Crime
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AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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ALmom
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Willa,
That's the article I read a while back that answered my concerns stirred by the Fr. Stravinskas article. There was also another response letter written by a canon lawyer that reiterated many of the same points and emphasized how in law the one having primary responsibility is the one who must make the decision related to that responsibility. Both clarified the issue for me at a time that we were being questioned in our local circumstances.
It also clarifies the point brought up about the seeming requirement to send children to a Catholic school. Obviously that is not the case.
One thing that may be noted historically, as well, is that the age of industrialization was when the first real public schools were formed in an attempt to stem the child labor (prior to child labor laws) by formulating mandatory attendance. These first schools were often very anti-Catholic and many a Catholic immigrant's child was thrust into what would appear to us as a church school. The Catholic school system was formed initially to meet the needs of these parents who barely spoke English. I heard (though I cannot document this part as I unfortunately no longer remember where) that the church was very concerned that with the establishment of religious institutions of primary and secondary education the parents would rely unduly on the religious and forget that they themselves were primarily responsible. I remember hearing that these schools were sanctioned with a warning that parents must be reminded that regardless of delegation, it was the parents that were primarily responsible for the education of children.
If parents had remembered this, would catechesis have gotten so out of hand?
Janet
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TracyQ
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Wow Janet! GREAT points!!! Thank you!
Willa, that article by Jimmy Aiken really helped me to better understand my role, and what the Church really teaches as well. Anything OK with Jimmy, is OK with me. 
This is all very fascinating to me. 
__________________
Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
 homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Divini Illius Magistri/real catholic educ
