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Elizabeth
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Although at first glance, this might not seem at all related, Jenn's question on body image spurred mine. I think that so often we struggle with body image because of messages we've heard since childhood from the media, the culture, and, at least in my case, our families.
In addition to growing up thinking fat was bad, I grew up thinking any disorder was bad. When I posted this picture, I did so with the understanding that I was being honest about my failures. But failures they were. In the comments, Mary Ellen points out she wants a space that's designated for messes. This was a revelation for me! You're suposed to have messes in some places? Seriously, every inch of your house isn't supposed to be ordered and organized? Is this so? I'm totally not kidding. This is as novel to me as it being okay to be a size 10 and not an 8. The book Fed Up! really helped me adjust my attitude towards body image and impressed upon me how important it is not to pass on poor thinking habits to my daughters.
But I don't want my daughters to pick up my perfectionism regarding the house either, particularly since my house isn't perfect, so they frequently hear me moaning and groaning about how "imperfect" it is.
I need to know what a healthy house image looks like. Just how clean and organized does it need to be?
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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amyable
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Elizabeth wrote:
But I don't want my daughters to pick up my perfectionism regarding the house either, particularly since my house isn't perfect, so they frequently hear me moaning and groaning about how "imperfect" it is.
I need to know what a healthy house image looks like. Just how clean and organized does it need to be? |
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While I can't help too much with the last part - because I'm coming from your train of thought -"What, a house can be 'imperfect'? Really?" ... I *can* tell you one thing NOT to do. Please don't go around behind your kids and fix what they have done as far as the house goes. Like a child closes the drapes and you go over and "fix" it so it looks better. Or redoing the folded towels that are the 10 year old's responsibility, etc. Too much of this and your kids will get the impression that not only does the house have to be perfect, but that they just can't do anything well enough.
Ask me how I know.  
Maybe it's a female thing, or maybe it's an 'adopted' thing, but it translated to me thinking *I'm* not good enough.
Hoping some day I'll get over it, too!  
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Amy
mom of 5, ages 6-16, and happy wife of 
The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
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Elizabeth
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amyable wrote:
Maybe it's a female thing, or maybe it's an 'adopted' thing, but it translated to me thinking *I'm* not good enough.
Hoping some day I'll get over it, too! |
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NOT an adopted thing. Both people from whom I get my genes have given me this impression. And the towel thing? Happened to me, too. It was August; I was 13 and I remember it like it was yesterday.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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PDyer
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Elizabeth wrote:
| I need to know what a healthy house image looks like. Just how clean and organized does it need to be? |
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What a great question and how timely. I am Born Organized (and so is my husband) and I have a small family. Consequently, I could have a super-clean and organized house. Yes, it might be possible, but where to draw the line?
I have strong childhood messages about what constitutes clean. When I was growing up we weren't allowed in the living room, and if we as much as walked through the space the vacuum fairy would remove the evidence (our footprints) from the carpet. So my house feels messy to me even though all of my friends have commented on how neat it is.
We've recently moved to a newer home that is much easier to maintain...amazing how much less dust there is in a 12 year old house compared to an 80 year old house! So this topic has been on my mind, thinking routines and what is truly necessary/desirable for this family. I'll be watching this thread.
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Patty
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Alice R
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I think a happy and clean home is one that YOU and YOUR FAMILY feels comfortable in and is acceptable to you guys.
We all know the feeling when the house is out of control. No one can find anything, the bathroom is funky and you really hope no one drops by.  Plus, you can't cook dinner because the counters are covered with junk. This is not functional for a family.  It causes arguments and stress.
However, if you clean up the house and it is not dirty and everyone can find what they need...hey that is great! 
I think we are looking for functional and pleasant to come home to. What is functional and pleasant will be different for every person. 
My mother was obsessed with cleaning. She was so neat and clean that it drove me crazy. My mom was a great lady and I loved her dearly-she was my best friend (I will never really get over her death) but the cleaning was too much!!!!
Anyway, I think by her setting such a high standard, I cannot attain as a homeschooling mother to 4 young children (and working a few shifts), that I am constantly unhappy with my house.
I was going to invite some friends over but really couldn't. You know why? Because the refrigerator had drip marks on the bottom and the shelves needed to be wiped down. THAT is terrible but I can't stop myself. My house was actually really neat that day but the fridge was too messy. What if someone saw it and thought I was dirty????
My house is usually  I am very disorganized by nature and have to force myself to put things where they belong. I am clean-I can't stand dirty, sticky or gross stuff. I just clean under and around the stuff that never seems to have a place.  But I will never be happy even with a medium neat house because I am always trying to attain my mom's amazing ability to keep everything spotless. Maybe I just know I'll never get there and give up? Why even bother some days, ya know? It'll just be one big mess again by evening.
I just want my home to be pleasant to be in and warm in spirit.
BTW, at least you guys were allowed to clean and then your mom recleaned after you. I was NEVER allowed to do anything because only she could clean it properly. I cleaned my room etc. but never EVER the rest of the house. Like I said, my mom was a great person and I loved her dearly but her view of cleaning/organization was really really obsessive.
Blessings,
Alice R
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Dawnie
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Elizabeth wrote:
| But I don't want my daughters to pick up my perfectionism regarding the house either, particularly since my house isn't perfect, so they frequently hear me moaning and groaning about how "imperfect" it is. |
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Elizabeth, I LOVE you for posting that picture. When I was growing up, our house was almost always a cluttered mess, even when my mom was staying at home (and we went to public school, so it's not like homeschooling was taking up all of her time). It was even worse after she went back to work (as a teacher). The mess would build up, until one day my mom had enough of it and went on "the rampage" (as we called it). She'd go around the house in a bad mood, frantically cleaning and barking orders at everyone. If anyone happened to come by unannounced, the first thing she did was apologize about the mess.
Now that I'm a mother, I really struggle with the same kind of attitude. I have a cleaning routine, and I've taught my kids how to do some chores around the house, but it still gets cluttered. Sometimes I can ignore it and I remind myself that people are more important than things. But sometimes, negative thought patterns take hold and I freak out about the mess and "go on the rampage" just like my poor mom did. Finding the balance is a big struggle for me. Here is what I've been thinking lately. Housekeeping is one of my duties, but mothering is a higher duty. If caring for my children takes precedence on some days over cleaning, then I need to accept the mess that results and realize that I'll have to tend to it on another day. If I've kept my priorities in order, been a good steward of the time God has given me that day, then there is no reason to be ashamed of any mess or disorder. I'm beginning to think that homeschooling and having a larger than average family automatically means there is going to be more clutter, especially when the kids are all under 8 or 9 years old. If we spend a large portion of our time teaching our kids, that means there is less time to clean. There are only 24 hours in a day, and we need to sleep for at least 8 of those (more during pregnancy and post-partum). I try to focus on cleaning the important stuff (which is the kitchen, laundry, and bathrooms) and making sure I at least keep my own stuff picked up (believe me, I've created some monster piles of papers and books on the dining room table!). Having said all that, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT I JUST THROW UP MY HANDS AND SAY "I GIVE UP. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO KEEP THIS PLACE CLEAN." It means that I do what I can with the time I have, I teach my kids to help out, and at the end of the day, I let the rest go.
A prayer I sometimes pray when frustration sets in is, "Lord, let me do YOUR work, not MY work." Often, the work HE wants me to do is tend to my children. The work I want to do is get a mess cleaned up without being interrupted. This is a BIG struggle for me, and my actions are not always consistent with my thinking on this matter.
As soon as we can afford it, though, I'm going to hire a teenager to come it once a week and help with the weekly chores. As long as we can't afford it, I'll just keep doing the best I can!
As far as what our homes should look like, I think that depends on the size of your family, how old your kids are, and other factors. But here's what I think is definately unrealistic: the Better Homes and Garden kind of image of immaculate, completely clutter-free homes. I subscribed to that magazine for a few years, and I noticed that most of the homes that were featured belonged to families with 1 or 2 kids, empty-nesters, or childless couples. Our homes are places where people LIVE, not museums. So, realistic is somewhere between a museum and a house that is so cluttered that you can't walk through it. Does that help?
Seriously, thank you SO SO SO much for posting the photo of your mudroom. It helps me SO much to know that other homeschooling moms have messes, too! I really struggled after my 3rd baby was born w/ postpartum depression. I felt so tired all the time and had a lot of trouble keeping up with my duties as a mother, a teacher, and a housekeeper. I was very isolated and kept wondering if something was wrong with me, or if what I was experiencing was just normal for my state in life. It would have helped so much for me to know that other homeschooling, postpartum moms were struggling in the same way and that it was okay for the house to be a little messy.
Sorry this is so long. This is something I think about A LOT!! Thanks for starting this thread, Elizabeth!
Dawn
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ladybugs
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Oh, I think this is totally related to Jenn's thread.
We need to throw out those magazines!
I know that when I had 4 kids 3 and under and the subsequent years that followed with very little sleep, too small of a house and extreme financial stress, I had to resign myself to messiness and change my attitudes of success. One time, when my children were small and I had broken my ankle, a certain family member told me how messy my how was. That was help?
Anyway, maybe something to do would be to not clean up something right away. It might be hard...just a suggestion.
Better run. We're travelling to Grandma's house today to see my sister and my mom.
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Maria P
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Alice R
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Dawnie wrote:
The mess would build up, until one day my mom had enough of it and went on "the rampage" (as we called it). She'd go around the house in a bad mood, frantically cleaning and barking orders at everyone. If anyone happened to come by unannounced, the first thing she did was apologize about the mess.
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This is me. I let things get out of control and then I flip out and start cleaning like a crazy person. That is so wrong. I need to keep a routine so this doesn't happen. Truth is, it always does. Hey, it is happening today. I'm waiting for the bathroom floor to dry so i can get back to this rampage cleaning.
Alice
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Meredith
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amyable wrote:
Too much of this and your kids will get the impression that not only does the house have to be perfect, but that they just can't do anything well enough.
Ask me how I know.
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Oh Amy, I'm at this one because my mother STILL lambastes me every time we see each other because I don't iron my sheets
It's amazing how much of that STUFF can tide over into our own feelings of inadequacy about HOW we keep (or don't keep) house!
I don't really have anything to add here, but I do believe our images about how we think things SHOULD be are quite different than God's view of how it should be
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Alice R
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In answer to Elizabeth's orginal question
How clean does your home have to be?
It needs to be clean and neat enough to foster peace, harmony, learning, joy and a place where God's spirit can dwell.
Ok, no more posting on this topic for me today. My floors are dry and I must get back to my rampage cleaning.  Great, now I even have a name for my crazy cleaning.
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Leonie
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Alice R wrote:
How clean does your home have to be?
It needs to be clean and neat enough to foster peace, harmony, learning, joy and a place where God's spirit can dwell. |
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I like this, Alice R.
I remember when I was expecting son number 7. We went to a home Mass at a family's house - and this house was spotless, from ceiling to floor. No clutter.
I realized that this family sent their dc to school - so, there were simply less bodies around all day.
We were home, doing things - therefore, even though we had regular clean ups our house just couldn't be as spotless or as clutter free.
People always have said that my house is clean and organized - I say clean and organized for a busy homeschool family.
This translates as FAIRLY clean and FAIRLY organized, not SUPER clean and SUPER organized - a happy median?
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Leonie in Sydney
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Natalia
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Leonie wrote:
I realized that this family sent their dc to school - so, there were simply less bodies around all day. |
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I have had to come to terms with my circumstances and choices. By choosing to homeschool I am from the onset leaving a very different lifestyle that my mom's. I live in complete different circumstances that she does, and did when she was raising kids. I have had to realize that I can't measure myself up by her standards.
I grew up in a spotless house. My mom had a routine for every thing. She could be the Flylady. The big difference is that she had a live-in maid. I don't. The time that I could spend cleaning, I spend teaching and being with the kids. Part of the reality of homeschooling is the mess that having the kids at home all day generates.
I am not organized by nature. I don't like housework. But I don't like to live in an dirty house and mess drives me crazy. I go on rampages. My antidote is a routine and a bare minimum that I feel comfortable with- rooms picked up at the end of the day, a clean kitchen and bathroom ,a weekly clean up and I am satisfied. That is why the Flylady system appeals to me even though I don't follow it consistently.
I try to tell myself that having a spotless house is useless if in the process you kill the desire for people to want to be home.
Natalia
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Servant2theKing
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When we began our homeschooling journey, about 16 years ago, a veteran homeschoolinging mom shared this pearl of wisdom, "Be ready to give up whatever is most important to you, for the sake of your family." That concept has helped me deal with body image, as well as "house image". When I view my life as a living sacrifice for those I love, I am better able to accept limitations and imperfections in myself and in my home. (I still struggle with these things, especially during times of menopausal anxiety, but the Lord keeps revealing what is MOST important and that helps me get back on track.)
This can also be a matter of humilty, for pride is really at the root of our desire for perfect bodies or perfect homes. If we model ourselves after the Holy Family we will desire to emulate their humilty and reject the false meassages of the world which scream at us that perfection lies in external appearances, rather than in the state of our hearts, minds and souls.
Jesus, Mary and Joseph, be our Model and our Guide!
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Donna
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Servant2theKing wrote:
This can also be a matter of humilty, for pride is really at the root of our desire for perfect bodies or perfect homes. If we ourselves after the Holy Family we will desire to emulate their humilty and reject the false meassages of the world which scream at us that perfection lies in external appearances, rather than in the state of our hearts, minds and souls.
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Thank you for reminding me.
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Donna
DH, Keven
Jason, Stevie, Marie, Jackson, Clara, and Aaron
Jacob, Sam, and Regina with God
Grandbabies Leigha and Elsie
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Dawnie
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Natalia wrote:
I try to tell myself that having a spotless house is useless if in the process you kill the desire for people to want to be home.
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So true!!
Another thought I wanted to share: Bl. Teresa of Calcutta said that God calls us to be faithful, not successful. I think this applies to us as homeschooling moms. When we have new babies, or are pregnant, or have other crazy things going on, faithfulness to our duties will look different than it did for our mothers. Does that make sense? If I have a little baby who is having a growth spurt and end up nursing her for much of the day, well the house is going to look a little cluttered by 6pm. It won't be cluttered b/c I was lazy or irresponsible, though. It will be cluttered b/c I was responding to what God asked me to do--nursing my baby--which was more important than cleaning the bathroom or clearing off my hot spots.
I used to stay up late finishing any cleaning tasks. Then I realized that I was neglecting my duty to take care of myself by getting adequate sleep. Now, when 11pm rolls around, I get ready for bed so I can get up ready to tackle the next day with a good attitude.
Dawn
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Visit my blog!Water Into Wine:Vino Per Tutto!
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jdostalik
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I started this thread last month. I think it dovetails with Elizabeth's topic well. I have had to choose my battles in my home so I don't go mad!!
I like a clean kitchen, a picked-up family room and the laundry sorted and put away. If I get these minimum things done, I feel like I can function--barely!
I think Elizabeth's pantry is a great example of a battle conquered. She has figured out how to maintain her pantry and keep it clean and organized. That makes my alphabetized spice cabinet seem paltry in comparison!
But, slowly, taking baby steps, I hope to regain parts of my home and then, maintain them! Of course, right now, my house is the victim of first trimester nausea and just getting the bare minimum done is exhausting.
I think relying on God's grace to get us through the day and invoking the Holy Family to help us can allow us to continue in our daily vocations to love and care for our children and our homes.
Johnette Benkovic had a lady on last week on The Abundant Life who talked about this topic. I only caught part of it...did anyone see the show? One point she made was that we must have beautiful homes so our children want to stay home and bring their friends home, as well. Now, I am sure her idea of "beautiful" is not the same as Better Homes and Gardens, but a more devout, faith-filled version..lovely holy reminders of our faith, an occasional aroma of fresh-baked cookies, etc. This is a noble goal...and on my good days, an achievable one!
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Kelly
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Well, my mother was a wonderful woman, but tidy she was not. Her nickname in the family was "The Happy Slob". She told me once that no one ever had a tombstone engraved with "She kept a clean house"! So my mother never bothered with those details, and never apologized for her messy house. It used to mortify me, as a teen, but funnily enough, it never seemed to bother my friends. Bottom line, mess or not, we had a great upbringing. As adults, though, my brothers and sisters and I all have different tolerance levels as to cleanliness, though none as extreme as my mom.
Anyway, I think it's important to concentrate on keeping a house to the level of cleanliness where you and your dh and dc are comfortable. My dh is a neataholic, Felix Unger reincarnate. I'm clean, but not terribly organized, and burdened with a Pack-Rat mentality. We've learned to meet in the middle and have certain areas we keep nice and clean for my dh's peace if mind, and others that are allowed to slide, a sort of Safe-Zone for me. Yes, there is a place for messiness! I am constantly instructing my "Felix" on this topic...and he continues to instruct me on organization. The bottom line, though: a happy house where people feel comfortable and your children aren't afraid to tread! I always remember the (one and only) time I visited a friend whose mother yelled at the way I, the guest, had loaded their dishwasher...Not a pleasant moment. On the contrary, I've had many, many people-Neatniks and Slobs alike- recount highly enjoyable evenings spent in the wild disarray of my mother's house!
As a subtext to this topic, though, comes the subject of detachment. I'm constantly struggling with detaching myself from things. It's really the overabundance of things that caused the disarray in my mom's house, as well as the localized disorder in my own abode. My schoolroom is the case in point. So many resources, and everything needs to be handy! I think this is my greatest household-management challenge (Well, that and ironing...I absolutely hate ironing )
Thanks for starting this thread, Elizabeth!
Deep thoughts in FL, Kelly
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MEBarrett
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Elizabeth wrote:
| In the comments, Mary Ellen points out she wants a space that's designated for messes. This was a revelation for me! You're suposed to have messes in some places? |
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I think you need to have a place or two (or seven) where you can be free to have some piles. I have one closet in the basement that is a disaster. No one knows about it but me (and now all of you) and it's only purpose is to shove more stuff in. Stuff I just don't want to get rid of yet but have no where to put.
I have junk drawer in the kitchen that is a disgrace.
I am a neat freak and I am waging a one woman war against clutter in my house. Elizabeth's mudroom was so appealing to me because I do not have a place where the kids can come in and drop their muddy shoes and coats and stuff. The front door leaves you directly in my living room and the back door in my dining room. I don't want their messes in either of these rooms so the idea of a room where they could come in, take off shoes, coats, backpacks, soccer bags, dance bags, etc.. and I could shut the door until I am ready to deal with it sounds like heaven. Right now it ends up on the couch or the DR table (where we eat three times a day) so I have to constantly be saying, "hang up your sweater, put away your shoes..." nag, nag, nag. I hate it.
My dream is a mudroom with two washers, two dryers, my pantry and a stall shower for sandy, muddy people.
I have only been homeschooling two years now, many of you have so much more experience, but one thing that has become clear to me is that clutter is different from house to house.
I, like many of you, have thousands of books. To me this is not clutter. They are in shelves but they are also in baskets and stacks all over the house. THe Thomas the Tank Engine books are by my chair in the living roon, because that's where Kevin likes to read with me. The fairy tales and Eric Carle books are in my room because that's Kelli's favorite spot. Someone walking in may think it's clutter but not me, and I am a pretty harsh judge of clutter.
We have this lifestyle that includes, books and art supplies and musical instruments that may end up all over the house and look like clutter but I like to think of it as a Real Learning environment.
What does drive me nuts, stuff on my kitchen counters. I like them to be clear all the time so I have room to cook. Stuff piled on the couch. Paper. There is too much paper in the world and it all seems to end up in my mailbox. I actually sort my mail next to an outdoor garbage can so I can keep the level of paper in the house down. Unmade beds are also a pet peeve. Since I can't get upstairs too easily lately I have a feeling the beds aren't getting done nicely. I try not to think about it. Piles on the dining room table and stuff on my dresser. If these surfaces are clear and neat I can be happy. When they aren't I am not.
I think when thinking of your comfort level with mess and clutter you need to factor in your tolerance, your husband's wishes, how many children you have, good hygiene, and the sanity of your household. If you are getting crazy and making everyone else crazy then you have to re-adjust your standards or how they are being accomplished. Your home should reflect your lifestyle, faith, personal taste and love of family. It shouldn't be museum quality.
Just my two cents.
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Mary Ellen
Mom to seven beautiful kids
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Elizabeth
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 mary Ellen, I wish you could come help me get my house ready for this baby! This all sounds so sensible and balanced. Instead, I'm so desperate for help, I've asked my mother to come !
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Rebecca
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Joined: Dec 30 2005
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Posts: 1898
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| Posted: June 19 2006 at 10:07am | IP Logged
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Elizabeth,
When I was expecting Annie and did not receive a lot of help around the house , I had a teenage girl from our hsing group come and play with the littles so that I could do some organizing. She did not expect much pay because I did not leave the house. She was a mother's helper rather than a babysitter. She came for a few days in a row, maybe an hour or two. This helped a whole lot.
I am sure with all the physical troubles you have been struggling with this pregnancy, coupled with other concerns, you are stretched pretty thin. I wish I lived closer to you as I would love to help! I always find it fun to clean/organize other peoples homes (just not my own! ) I am sure you don't want my family moving in for a week to help you (or DO you  )but...
Are there any local mothers who could come over and help you while all the children play together? Hint Hint Hint...
My very good friend did this for me. It was an enormous help and I would not have been able to get the work done without her.
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: House image?
