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millermom1110
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| Posted: April 25 2014 at 1:24pm | IP Logged
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I know this is so OT, but I'm really needing some tips dealing with a pushy neighbor. My DH is getting very irritable about the whole thing (I don't really blame him), but I'm trying to diffuse the situation before it gets dramatic.
We have an elderly couple that lives right behind us. The man was actually my pediatrician as a child, and his wife was a reading teacher in the local elementary school. We've lived in this house almost 2 years.
She stops by once a week or so when the weather is nice enough and pokes and prods about our homeschooling. She's made it clear on many occasions that she feels my children would be better off in our "fantastic elementary school." She always starts off with the same question ... "So what are you guys doing about that homeschooling thing?" Then she interrogates me about where I get our curriculum, whether or not it's accredited, whether or not I have approval to do this, whether or not I'm qualified, etc.
When we got our dog, she sent me letters in the mail telling me that I shouldn't let him out unattended (I don't. I'm either watching him from the porch where she can't see me, or he has his electric collar on and I'm keeping an eye on him from a window). 
Yesterday she stopped by to tell me that they hired a landscaping company to come pick up the brush behind our barn!? Then she told me that I need to make sure to keep that area cleaned up because she doesn't want my kids playing in the dangerous pile of sticks. 
Those are just a few examples off the top of my head. I gave her the benefit of the doubt for the first 2 years that she was just a very social person and liked to interact with our family, and maybe she was just curious about the homeschooling stuff. But now it's becoming a little apparent that she's just plain pushy. I'd like to set some boundaries with her, but in a respectful way. I don't want her to feel unwelcome or unliked. I just want her to ... back off a little. Anyone have similar experiences or tips??
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SeaStar
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| Posted: April 25 2014 at 5:13pm | IP Logged
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That is a hard one. Neighbors can be tough; even though we want to be charitable, we all do need our space.
The whole mailing you a letter thing about the dog... weird.
Hiring someone to do yard work in your yard... weird.
Snooping about the homeschooling... not appreciated.
Fixing all these.... tough.
We once had a similar neighbor. He loved to do yard work, and he was outside- in his yard or ours or another neighbor's, doing yard work all the time- in all our yards, unasked-watching everyone, commenting on everything, gossiping. It was too much. Every time I looked out a window- there he was. We finally moved, for a variety of reasons, but that was one of the main ones. It was hard to keep being pleasant to him when we felt we were being basically spied on all the time.
In your shoes, I would make sure I was an HSDLA member. I would not discuss school other than in a vague way and then change the subject ASAP. If that didn't work, I would tell her that my family was happy with our school situation and decisions, and the subject wasn't open for discussion or criticism.
I recently had to tell my own family that, as they are very critical of homeschooling. It was a hard thing to do, but also very freeing. Of course, they were offended, but all our choices were offensive to them anyway, so nothing was lost there. Hopefully they'll get over it.
I do feel for you and will keep this intention in my prayers. 
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millermom1110
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| Posted: April 26 2014 at 6:22am | IP Logged
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Thanks, Melinda.
I've been meaning to sign up for an HSLDA membership for the last couples of months, and did so last night after you reminded me. You're right that it would be a good idea, especially with the snooping.
We're going on vacation this coming week and my mom is going to be house sitting /dog sitting for us. Let's just say my mom isn't always the most gracious person in the world, and I could totally see her telling my nosy neighbor exactly where to put all of her opinions while we're gone.  I'm hoping it doesn't come to that, and I'll definitely appreciate the prayers. I need some guidance on how to handle this carefully, yet effectively. Something tells me that this is going to require some extra graces from the Holy Spirit. 
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Raising 5 children with my husband (DS 8, DS 7, DD 4, DS 2, DS born 3/15).
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guitarnan
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| Posted: April 26 2014 at 7:10am | IP Logged
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I agree with Melinda. Your neighbor has crossed the line of propriety, especially with her actions regarding YOUR yard. That's hiring someone to trespass on your property.
Were I you, I would:
Stop answering my door. I would talk with her if I happened to be outside, but that's it, and I would keep my conversations brief ("I'd love to talk longer, but I have to get the shirts out of the dryer before they wrinkle!").
Save every letter she sends, but not respond to them.
Take Melinda's excellent advice on discussing home education.
Brace for impact (she may feel rejected enough to call CPS, which is why you need to save the letters). This is why you joined HSLDA.
This isn't being unkind, it is setting appropriate boundaries for yourself and your family. You will all feel happier if you set and stick to those limits.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: April 26 2014 at 10:24am | IP Logged
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Other than discussing the homeschooling in a vague way.. you might also drop the legal requirements in a conversation and that you're complying with those. That might help avoid needing that HSLDA membership. Reminding her that it's completely legal may help her keep her grousing to herself instead of calling to "tell on" you.
And if you can I'd be looking at saving up for a privacy fence. There's a reason for the saying "good fences make good neighbors" 
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Betsy
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| Posted: April 26 2014 at 11:12am | IP Logged
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Praying for you! 
Before we moved, and the state was only on a traditional school schedule, I use to get very rude and prying comment when shopping during the day. My kids were 1st grade and under (I.e. only one was technically in school and only first grade!!!). It just seems so crazy to get these comments when most of my kids weren't even school age, like you!
People just need to worry about their own life more.
P.S. Make sure you have all you High School plans worked out too! When my kids were all in grade school it seemed like I got this question daily. For Real? Who knows what their kids are going to do in HS when they are in 1st grade?????
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millermom1110
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| Posted: April 26 2014 at 2:36pm | IP Logged
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JodieLyn wrote:
Other than discussing the homeschooling in a vague way.. you might also drop the legal requirements in a conversation and that you're complying with those. That might help avoid needing that HSLDA membership. Reminding her that it's completely legal may help her keep her grousing to herself instead of calling to "tell on" you.
And if you can I'd be looking at saving up for a privacy fence. There's a reason for the saying "good fences make good neighbors" |
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We discussed a fence this year with the tax return. Unfortunately the zoning laws in our town only allow for a 4 foot fence  . Not really worth the investment when you're not getting any privacy anyway! Moving is in our 5 year plan. Moving out of state, hopefully. NY isn't the most friendly state to live in for a multitude of reasons. So I'm continuing to pray for the graces to deal with our current situation until God opens the door for a better one.
I really appreciate the suggestions so far. I shut down my FB account as a Lenten sacrifice, and ultimately determined to shut it down permanently. So my online interactions and places to ask for tips and prayers is much smaller than it used to be. Very thankful for this forum! 
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Kathryn
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| Posted: April 29 2014 at 9:59am | IP Logged
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Gosh, that is so frustrating. Is it possible to plant a tall, fast growing shrub or tree at least to give a partial "break" between the property lines?
If you don't plan on staying a super long time, I'd even be inclined to plant them closer than I normally would for long-term just so you can enjoy the benefits in the short-term.
And depending on the cost of the fence, even a 4' one could really work to effectively and visually "separate" your yards even if it doesn't give a ton of privacy. It seems like now she thinks it's all "one big communal yard". Then, you can plant tall shrubs/trees in front of your fence.
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organiclilac
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| Posted: April 29 2014 at 10:29am | IP Logged
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Kathryn wrote:
Gosh, that is so frustrating. Is it possible to plant a tall, fast growing shrub or tree at least to give a partial "break" between the property lines?
If you don't plan on staying a super long time, I'd even be inclined to plant them closer than I normally would for long-term just so you can enjoy the benefits in the short-term.
And depending on the cost of the fence, even a 4' one could really work to effectively and visually "separate" your yards even if it doesn't give a ton of privacy. It seems like now she thinks it's all "one big communal yard". Then, you can plant tall shrubs/trees in front of your fence.
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I was thinking the same things. We don't have the same issues that you do, but we do frequently have people cut through our yard to get to a nearby housing area, and they will walk RIGHT through the garden, toss trash in our yard and compost bin, and generally be a nuisance. We don't have the money for a fence, but I am thinking that if we plant enough stuff around the borders, they may be more inclined to take the long way around. Maybe I need to research plants with thorns. 
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guitarnan
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| Posted: April 29 2014 at 10:48am | IP Logged
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I think planting shrubs is an excellent idea!
Tracy, consider thorny plants that attract bees.
Seriously, when people cut through a yard repeatedly and you don't stop them, you may end up losing your ability to stop them forever. In my state, there's such a thing as creating a right of way by allowing people to walk on (or ride on, in the case of ATVs or bikes) your property. If it goes on too long, you literally can't fence them off.
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organiclilac
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| Posted: April 29 2014 at 11:03am | IP Logged
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guitarnan wrote:
Tracy, consider thorny plants that attract bees. |
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guitarnan wrote:
| Seriously, when people cut through a yard repeatedly and you don't stop them, you may end up losing your ability to stop them forever. In my state, there's such a thing as creating a right of way by allowing people to walk on (or ride on, in the case of ATVs or bikes) your property. If it goes on too long, you literally can't fence them off. |
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That's the craziest part - there is a 10' wide easement between our yard and the neighbor's that people are free to walk through! Why they feel the need to waltz through our carport, limbo under our clotheslines, and traipse through our gardens when they could walk a clear path just a few feet over completely baffles me!
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Tracy, wife to Shawn, mama to Samuel (4/01) and Joseph (11/11), and Thomas (2/15)
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Kathryn
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| Posted: April 29 2014 at 11:34am | IP Logged
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organiclilac wrote:
That's the craziest part - there is a 10' wide easement between our yard and the neighbor's that people are free to walk through! Why they feel the need to waltz through our carport, limbo under our clotheslines, and traipse through our gardens when they could walk a clear path just a few feet over completely baffles me! |
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I admit that when I was in jr. high we walked through the backyard of some people's homes as a short cut simply b/c there was no fence.  I'm not sure why I did it...I think every one did it. I never even thought about it. It was just a bunch of kids, no adult supervision. If the owners had ever come outside and told us to stay off their property I would have been so scared that I never would have done it again.
This made me search for some fun signs you could put up:
Fun "no trespassing" signs
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Barb.b
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| Posted: April 30 2014 at 10:51am | IP Logged
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TO the landscaping company thing - I would say - thank you, but not thanks. Ask for the name of the company so you can call and cancel it - even tell the company the situation and tell them you will consider them trespassing.
I would try to limit talk and communication with her. If you can't avoid it them say: "I really I dining fine and don't need to answer any of your questions" Or "These are personal decisions and I don't need your help at this time" or "I am following all the homeschooling laws and what we are doing is quite legal"
Barb
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Barb.b
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| Posted: April 30 2014 at 10:58am | IP Logged
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If the landscape company hasn't picked it up yet - send the lady a letter stating it isn't legal for her to hire a company to do work on your yard and to please cancel or you will have to hire a lawyer (not that you will but it sounds good and hopefully gets the point across that she isn't only crossing personal boundaries but legal ones as well). If you let her get away with this what will she try next!
Barb
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Martha
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| Posted: April 30 2014 at 2:27pm | IP Logged
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I agree with everything Nancy & Barb said. Every word.
I addition I am a very firm believer that big fences, thorny bushes and no trespassing signs make good neighbors. I would refuse to let any company on property whether she already paid for it or not. And I would absolutely be willing to call the police if she pushed me. Remember that in the eyes of the law it didn't happen if you didn't file paperwork on it. (No not exactly. But pretty much. ) Send a certified cease and desist for trespassing on your property. Refuse to have them in your home. And don't speak to them unless it's in writing or recorded.
I wouldn't announce anything with them. I'd both avoid and discourage and not engage and anything beyond that would be brief and blunt.
Sounds awful but in my sad experience folks like that don't even notice anything else.
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Servant2theKing
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millermom, you might want to consider a few things before formulating any response to your neighbor's actions. While many of the things your neighbor has said or done beg the establishment of some kind of boundaries, you may want to temper your response with prudence and careful consideration of who you are dealing with.
A pediatrician and reading teacher are used to being in positions where others seek them out for their expertise, thus they are used to offering advice and opinions in those roles. They may not even realize they are overstepping the limits of neighborly propriety by offering unsolicited advice or opinions to you and your family, but see it as offering the free gift of their knowledge and experience. Elderly people often do the same. I was often wounded in my early mothering years by things my nurse, mother-in-law would say or do. In hindsight, I now realize many of her actions reflected her training and life experience, and were never meant to wound or criticize me. Your neighbors could simply be acting out of habit and may not realize how their comments or actions effect your family.
It is quite possible they are unaware of certain aspects of your situation. If they aren't aware of electric dog collars and how they function it might appear to them as though your dog is unattended, when he is indeed perfectly safe within the bounds of your property. We have two large dogs with electric collars who have frightened various visitors to our property by barking at the very edge of their boundary, so I imagine an elderly person, who might find roaming dogs frightening or disconcerting, could see a dog with an electric collar as threatening if they don't realize the dog is confined to a set boundary by the collar.
If your neighbors are unfamiliar with homeschooling, suggesting the local school might simply be what they feel would be best for any children they know. Often, those trained in fields like education or medicine feel any alternatives are less ideal than the one they have dedicated their lives to. Conversely, we can err in similar ways by thinking our choice of homeschooling is the only viable one and come across defensively to those who might simply have a differing view or focus. It can be very difficult for someone immersed in a particular vocation for an entire lifetime to be able to imagine anything else being comparable to all they have ever known or experienced.
Difficulties with neighbors can go in two directions based on our response; they can escalate if we respond defensively or confrontationally OR they can be diffused or tempered by balanced, prayerful, prudent response. You certainly don't need to have an open door, anything goes, response to neighbors or visitors ~ in fact that could be detrimental to fulfilling your first responsibility to the family God has entrusted to your care.
You might consider a few options that can give you and your neighbors more peace and address your need for respectful boundaries in a simple letter addressing some of the concerns you've shared. A well-worded, respectful, but confident letter could go far in fostering better relations.
~If you feel your neighbor's drop in visits are undesirable or intrusive, you could explain that your time is devoted to caring for the needs of your family, therefore you cannot welcome unscheduled visits to your home.
~You might allay concerns about your dog by mentioning his electric collar, how it functions, and mention that you have the collar for the sake of being responsible pet owners.
~You might share some of the blessings of homeschooling with them and assure them that your efforts in that regard are perfectly legal. Doing so could make your neighbors less "concerned" about your children, and possibly even earn you friendly allies.
~You might mention that you and your husband appreciate their generosity in wanting to hire someone to clear the debris from your property, but insurance wouldn't cover someone you haven't hired, and also assure them you are just as concerned about your children's safety and welfare.
FWIW, one of our neighbors uses downed limbs on our property line as a natural fence, and we find it quite attractive. If you google wattle fence or fences made from sticks and twigs, there are many ideas for free fencing like this.
People tend to be less put off and much more supportive if we respond less defensively, and give them the benefit of the doubt regarding their intent. If you respond positively, while maintaining a position of strength and commitment in your own position, things are usually less likely to escalate or turn sour. I've had to establish firm boundaries in various difficult situations in life. If attempts to establish healthy limits or boundaries find the situation still turns worse, stronger tactics can be necessary, but it's always worthwhile to try a diplomatic, positive approach first. If efforts to respond as positively and graciously as possible fail, you can always trust that God will honor your attempts to handle things in a manner pleasing to Him.
BTW You were wise in signing up with HSLDA, but I hope, like us, you will never actually require their services. As members for 23 years we are thankful for their efforts to maintain homeschooling freedoms.
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millermom1110
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Thanks everyone, for all of the suggestions.
We got back from vacation very late Saturday night and discovered that the company had already come to pick up the brush. It was a little more complicated than I described for the sake of not writing an entire novel. There was some question as to whether or not the brush was even from us. They had 4 pine trees cut down on the property line last summer, and my husband adamantly believes that those limbs were from THEIR trees, and that the tree company left them behind. I have no doubt that this is the truth because we've never actually put any brush behind our barn. We always put it in front of our barn so that DH can easily load it into his pick up truck and dispose of it. The neighbors, however, believe that they were ours and that they were being generous? in having it picked up for us. So DH was happy to have them pick up the brush, since he believed that it wasn't our "mess" from the beginning. I just didn't appreciate the lecture I got from her about how I shouldn't let my kids play in sticks. They never went back there to play in them, by they way. She was concerned about the hypothetical future, I guess.
Anywho ... I appreciate all of the very valid points that were made. We researched fast growing hedges today and will be ordering some with the hopes of establishing some boundaries. I hope that the hedges will be enough of a hint that we appreciate our privacy and personal space, without needing to have a "falling out" of some sort.
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Dealing with Pushy Neighbors?
