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Rachel May
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A friend and I were sharing thoughts recently about the necessity for organization, especially in a big family which has gotten me thinking....
I have always loved the saying "A place for everything and everything in it's place," but at my house the reality is that while most things have a place, the only things that reliably find their way there are alcohol and unmatched socks. Do you find that the breakdown in getting things put away is lack of training, organization that doesn't work for most family members, or something else entirely? And how do I get to a maintainable level of organization? Any thoughts?
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Rachel
Thomas and Anthony (10), Maria (8), Charles (6), Cecilia (5), James (3), and Joseph (1)
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PDyer
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In our house, what's most important is having a regular time to put things in their place, and working togetgher to put them there. My kids get distracted on the way to putting in things in their place; I've found I need to inspect regularly.
I also bought two baskets for the stairs, one for each child -- I put random stuff in the baskets when I find it, and then I ask the kids to put the contents away at the end of the day. Again, I have to inspect or I'll find the full basket on the bedroom floor a few hours later...
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SusanJ
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My dh is a major culprit in the clutter department and he recently told me that he just feels like things don't have a place. He is a major creature of habit so I'm hoping that I can sort of come up with one new "place" each week for his stuff: pocket contents, books in progress, shoes, briefcase, etc. I wouldn't be on him if he hadn't volunteered that information. I find that my kids are quite trainable but I'm often not willing to put in the energy to remind them and help them. I've found that kid-friendly storage goes a long way. We have Duplos and Tinker Toys in our main living area that get played with every single day. They were both in containers that were hard for the kids to manage so I just switched them both to open-topped baskets and we're staying on top of them better. I also try to have collection spots or containers so that I can separate picking up and putting away when necessary. Ideally those two activities happen at the same time but clutter and mess beget clutter and mess so sometimes the best thing to do is just get the mess out of sight as quickly as possible. So I have a big basket under my desk (in the main room) where I can stash stuff--especially stuff that still needs a designated home.
And, um, I'm feeling like a major hypocrite as I type this because my apartment is a total disaster at the moment so I better get on that before nap time is over.
Susan
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amyable
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The two main culprits here are the "crisis" time and having four girls that float from one activity to another before the others are finshed --
I'm using crisis loosely, of course, but that is when I'm doing something and then someone needs me for a reason big or small, so I get up and tend to that thing, leaving what I was doing sitting on the table or the couch or whatever, and...
When the girls play, two children will take out a bunch of different things. Within a few minutes the other two children will join for a time, and one by one they float away to do different things. No one puts away the first things because someone was always playing with it. Fine, but by 8 AM my house looks like a bomb hit it.
I'm sure it doesn't help that we DON'T have a place for everything.  I'm working on it.
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Aggie gal
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PDyer wrote:
| In our house, what's most important is having a regular time to put things in their place, and working togetgher to put them there. |
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That's exactly what we've done lately. We set a timer and for 10 minutes we work on the living room. Reset timer. 10 minutes on kitchen. Reset timer. 10 minutes in individual bedrooms. You get the idea. At first it took longer than 10 minutes for each area, but now that we've been doing this a while, it takes less. I work along side the kids and it helps a great deal. Oh, we also put on some fun music to boot. We do this process starting around 5pm or so each day so it's nice and picked up before dh gets home.
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Amy
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Maryan
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I love that quote -- and I aim for that!! But...
It rarely happens.
I think mine is a lack of training. It's hard to homeschool... and teach the 1 1/2 year old to put away the stuff and the books that he's dumps while we're doing things! I tried stuffing his face with food while we were learning... and he did gain weight... but he discovered there is a life outside his booster chair. 
Anyway... I'm very excitec about my new organizational invention!! It's an empty green wicker basket with a handle that I keep underneath my kitchen desk. I use it like Patty. One child (or me at the end of the night) takes the basket and picks up all the stuff in the room(s). It has helped. It would drive me nuts that when I asked the boys to clean up they would pick up one.thing.at.a.time.and.it.would.take.forever. 
So the basket quickens that step, they unload in the toy closet, and then the empty basket goes back!! So far it's a novelty... we'll see if it sticks.
Rachel May wrote:
| ...the reality is that while most things have a place, the only things that reliably find their way there are alcohol and unmatched socks. |
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 This made me laugh. And our spare socks?? They are NEVER where they should be. That's Luke's favorite "Toy" basket. The balls are confiscated to the basement, so he uses those instead. Spare socks are everywhere.
I will say I put the toys away every night. My desk? It's a mess, but the toys are away. So at least one thing is in its place!!
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Maryan
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Maryan
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Oh and maintainable level of organization? Truly - your house was very organized to me!
I now have a main floor changing table too cuz of you! But I still don't have the cool book racks.
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Maryan
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RamFam
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Maryan wrote:
Oh and maintainable level of organization? Truly - your house was very organized to me!
I now have a main floor changing table too cuz of you! But I still don't have the cool book racks. |
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This could have been my exact quote, except for the changing table. I love the book racks!
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Leah
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KackyK
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I find, that I have some dc who are amazing cleaners, my oldest ds in particular. His older sister, the oldest in the family, is the slowest, biggest procrastinator towards cleaning. Those that don't clean well here, make those that do, very angry  and clean up time can become a fight. So I have had to have separate cleanups for separate dc. Ofcourse efficient ds is realizing that dd and some others are allowed more time to finish. But efficient ds is just so efficient, that no one can compare. He hasn't quite grasped this...even though in the end everyone cleaned the "same amount" fairly, his was quicker, so it looks like they were given a break.
Anyways..this probably hasn't made much sense...but even though we do have a place for everything, we can't do just one cleanup time here. When it is crunch time and we ALL are forced to clean up at one time, it can be ugly here! YIKES! So I try very hard to avoid those times.
Oh and I wanted to say I totally relate to Amy's comment about her girls taking things out, others coming to play and then mysteriously they all are gone separately but what was originally taken out is still there. This happens ALL the time here and is used as the excuse why they all shouldn't have to clean up. It's very obnoxious. I try to keep a running list of whose turn it is to clean up in those situations since I actually have to name someone, use their official name, to get it done. Just asking, will someone do this...no one moves!
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Katie
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amyable wrote:
When the girls play, two children will take out a bunch of different things. Within a few minutes the other two children will join for a time, and one by one they float away to do different things. No one puts away the first things because someone was always playing with it. Fine, but by 8 AM my house looks like a bomb hit it.
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Amy,
You really nailed the problem here. I want them to be creative and really play with the toys they have. Right now the dining room table is covered in wooden animals and My Little Ponies, plus some tupperwares from my drawer. Not sure what they are for, but the point is they are having a grand old time and playing so nicely together. Meanwhile ds is upstairs with Legos and the baby is crawling around basically dumping stuff out if he can get his hands on it.
Bottom line - a big mess! Dh always pulls that "Just let them have one thing out at a time" quote but it doesn't work for me. Tidying up is sometimes okay and sometimes a nightmare. We'll keep working on it.
Remind me that I'll miss these days when they're too old for blocks and dollhouses and sand boxes and other mess makers.
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Cheryl
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In my house, in order to get things back into their places, I need to stick with daily pick-up times. This is hard for me to do when I'm tired and I get up too late or when I'm tired and I just skip them. So I guess it really starts with going to bed at my chosen bedtime and getting up at my chosen rising time.
In the morning the dc do morning routines, which includes picking up their bedrooms. My ds 9 can do this on his own. My ds 7 will almost never do it without me watching/helping him and my dd 5 will do hers, sometimes needing help. Sometimes I wonder if there should be a consequence for my ds 7 not doing his on his own, or if helping him is the way to go.
Right now, all of our toys' "places" are upstairs. So this makes the downstairs pick-up a little easier. But still, before dinner, the kids each have an area that they are suppose to tidy up. (living room, dining room & foyer, mudroom, kitchen) Everything that goes upstairs can be thrown into a laundry basket and brought up and put away. Of course lately they are all playing outside when I make dinner and I haven't been calling them in to do this.
At night, while some dc is in the tub, the others and I pick-up the playroom - putting all of the toys in their places. When I go out at night, my dh doesn't make them do this, which usually makes the next night even messier. But I'm just grateful that he takes care of the dc while I'm out.
Sometimes I make the dc pick-up the schoolroom before lunch, but I'm not consistent. I often end up doing it myself. Now that spring has sprung, another pick-up time needs to be put in place for the outdoor toys. The dc usually come in the house without picking up. I don't know why they don't think of it. Then my dh will come home to a bike in the middle of the driveway and our sandbox will fill up with water when it rains.
Many weekends when my dh is home, we skip our pick-up times and Monday the house is a mess. So I guess my answer to your question is that once everything has a place, it's maintenance. I plan times to put everything away. If I stick with the times, the house stays organized, if I don't it gets out of control.
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TheresaS
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I agree ith Cheryl that it's about maintenance. I also think that to get to level where organisation is easily maintainable everything does need a home - a place where it belongs. The biggest problem that we have in this department is lack of proper storage. The areas of the house where we've worked to arrange proper storage for our things i.e. the lounge and dinning room are easy to pick up and clean, we pick up in the morning, lunch time, afternoon and bedtime and this keeps the place more or less tidy (although there's always missplaced things that I see to at the end of the day - but it's manageable) Where we've not organised proper storage we just shift piles of things about and it's a real bear to clean and tidy. Proper storage is something that's always been fairly low down on our list of priorities, but now I'm having a rethink about how I manage the house, and it's going to rise through the ranks of importance. Some of the children are neat and clear up after themselves others such as my eldest couldn't see mess if he tripped over it (dh is the same he thinks our house if wonderfully tidy bless him). I think that it's important to show them how self dicipline in this area does ultimately make life easier. Having said that when I'm ill of if dh has a holiday and our routines slide the house does get much messier.
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Anne McD
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A place for everything, and everything all over the place. That's my house!
I have to agree with the maintinence point. Unfortunately, I'm having a bit of trouble with that myself. Something about not being well diciplined my slef . . .
I'm inclined to think that the fewer things we have/have accesable to the kids, the less mess there is to pick up. My ds6 absolutely amazes me with the extent of mess he can create in short periods of time! Just yesterday I went upstairs to his room and was unable to open his door because two karate belts, a gift bag and a cool mist humidifyer were tied together to the bunk beds, and his curtains were tied up with the remaining two karate belts! The rest of the room looks like a bomb went off in it. I shudder to think what its going to look like when he's a teenager!! Regardless, whatever they all come in contact with, its taken apart and left in a million different pieces.
Here's a question, especially for those of you who have the organization down-- do you have a certain number of toys that are out at a time? I need to just pack up and put away here . . .
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mary
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in my house, when things aren't where they belong it's because i haven't gotten our routine moving (like today when it's rainy and kids slept late!) normally, the kids neat and tidy their rooms before breakfast. we all neat and tidy the downstairs before school. the ipod goes on and everyone picks their fav song to pick up. when the music is over, we are done. we do this again in the afternoon before dinner prep. i find that i can't get school done if we aren't picked up - it makes me crabby. the kids would never do their rooms if it wasn't part of early chores and a pick up before daddy gets home makes everyone happy.
that said, we recently decluttered because we all decided that we didn't want to spend so much of our lives cleaning up.
speaking of, the breakfast is over and the kids are cranking up the ipod. . . .
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Rachel May
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I'm getting some great inspiration here, but my posting time is limited at the mo'. Don't let that stop the ideas flowing, please!
BTW, those of you who have been to my house were obviously taken in by the last minute adult cleanup that happened right before your arrival. For example, I remember that Leah's first time over, the cleaning lady had just left. I'm hoping to make the whole organizational system more "child led".
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ALmom
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Our problem is too much stuff and distractibility. We made remarkable progress when we had fleas cause I had to get rid of stuff to have my floors free for bug spraying. We have a long, long way to go. My desk is a disaster area but we almost never have toys strewn out - just books, books, books everywhere. And paper and those little straight pins and shoes and socks. (The straight pins are from my distractable mad scientist who uses the sewing pins for making various helicopter propellors or some such thing). I gave a warning - now the straight pins are hidden for a long while. Come the end of May, they'll be another viscious sweep of the house to organize for the new year. I start out being brutal about throwing away or giving away my unused stuff - then the kids will follow. Each year we get a little better. We have to be patient with ourselves as I have to do it in little steps. Right now on the home sweep, we're just finishing up the year so it won't be till the end of May that we actually make any significant progress. But next year will be a little better than this year. Slow and steady, one step at a time.
Unfortunately, the way I work is I have these piles of stuff I'm looking through thinking about next year. The piles reproduce. I know exactly where everything is on my piles - but they are a stressful eyesore. Right now I have piles of lesson plans/paperwork for finishing up this year, piles of books recommending good reading books, piles of lesson plans for next year that I need to review and taylor or trash as the case may be. I'm in that in between time when I still have work from this year and am beginning to gather resources for next year. It is a roaring disaster in the making - but it is temporary for only a few more weeks before we start tackling removing some of it.
In any case, a number of my children imitate me. My son has his piles of science reference books, his overflowing box of miscalaneous parts and various piles of books as he finishes up his last few less desirable subjects so he can totally focus on math and science again.
My dd just came home from college with piles of music that reproduce faster than my books and all her stuff from the dorm room. She is typically doing about 5 things at once - gathering more music to learn, preparing for her lesson in SF (yes, Chari, thank you so much for your information and contacts - she and her dad are traveling shortly for this), and for a bunch of wedding jobs. She hasn't had time to slow down enough yet to figure out how much of the stuff she brought back from school was simply old papers shoved every which where cause she never had time to sort it. She'll have a small bit of time between SF and the start of summer classes (when she is taking all her crazy academic requirements so she can do JUST music next year!!!).
My other dd has piles of books and papers for finishing up the year - and is beginning to form piles of pleasure books in anticipation of all the free time she'll have this summer.
My little guys have begun to imitate me as well . My 5 yo, first thing, gathers a pile of books for me to read to him so I won't forget. His piles are ridiculously large - ie 30 - 50 books and he has overheard something about an hour so he demands his hour. I love that he wants to read and snuggle. The books often stand in piles (I do read them but not 30 at one sitting). To this pile he also adds his stuff - like the gun and cowboy hat that he wears when he is Buffalo Bill. He still has his torn scarf waiting to be mended in a pile. He even tends to leave his clothes in piles on the dresser where they get knocked over and unless I make a sweep and instruct and supervise, they never make it to the drawer.
Aaaah it is time for the summer and time to get to all these things to be done.
My poor dh and oldest son, they are the only naturally organized members of the family. I've corrupted my dh somewhat as my stuff overflows all his spaces and he is so busy now that he doesn't have the same amount of time he once did when he was a bachelor. Today is the day I promised to take a whole bunch of outgrown riding toys to my sis - and help tackle the garage.
When you have a bunch of folks in the same household who are all pile workers - well there are busy seasons when things get pretty tough to find an open countertop. It is seasonal!!!
Janet
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Rachel May
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Anne McD wrote:
do you have a certain number of toys that are out at a time? I need to just pack up and put away here . . .
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This is where I'm going too. We have some toys, like would trains, which no one plays with most days. I recently moved them out of sight, but not unavailable for when friends come over. I'm looking for what else I can do a similar thing to.
This past week, I took some milk-crate-like boxes and put picture books into them and put those on the bookshelves. We were having a problem of long rows of books sliding down and then turning into piles. This seems to be working so far.
Janet, I'm a pile maker too. My difficulty with piles is that they breed and also become easy to not go through because they are messy. I recently discovered a pile that my movers had moved from my old house over a year ago. Daily maintenence of my piles is needed, but I always seems to find something better to do. Do you have an assigned pile tending time or day?
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Rachel
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PDyer
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Rachel May wrote:
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I clear the kitchen piles after dinner, and then I lose steam and stop. You should see my desk. Oh my! 
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mama251ders
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Two things that have helped me maintain some semblance of order is my label maker and at least 2 pick up times a day. If I had known that a label maker was my savior, I would have bought one years ago. There is no excuse for the older ones not to put things where they go because everything is clearly labeled. And when we make the time to have two pick ups a day, it never really takes that long to do and no one complains much. Right now, the 10yos are sorting recycling to take to the recycling center and they are really grumbling because it hasn't been done in about 3 weeks. When we sort things as we go, it takes no time at all. The same is true with our house and things. I think it really is important to have "a place for everything and everything sin it's place" especially when you have a large family. When I can't find things on a regular basis, it always ends bloody.
That's not to say that you will walk into my house and find it looking like Martha Stewart lives next door. If you plan to stop by unannounced, you're likely not to find us under all the mess!
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Stephanie_Q
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OK - I've been reading this and thinking about it.
Yes, we lack a consistent daily clean up routine. Yes, we have too much clutter. No, we are not terribly organized and I'm having such a difficult time getting there because I have a 17 month old who thinks that it is his job to clear all surfaces of everything - except the floor, of course. He climbs up on chairs and throws my "piles" on the floor. He opens drawers and pulls everything out. It's not constant, but once he gets started... There are so many lower drawers, cabinets, etc that are easy to open (and too hard to put child locks on). There are several empty cupboards, drawers, and shelves because I'm tired of picking the stuff that was in them up - again. There is a reason that the bookshelves are in a closet. It's not to save space!
Let's just say I'm glad it's spring and we can go outside for most of the day - the only way the house stays clean these days is if it gets picked up and then we leave!
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4Real Forums : Planning and Ordering our Days
Topic: A Place for Everything
