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jawgee
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Someone talked about this in a thread about kids going to public school - how much she enjoys her kids when they reunite after school and come home talking about their day.
I feel ashamed to say this. I'm really not enjoying my kids lately. I'm very type-A, and sometimes all I see is the things we have to get done (and the messes they make in the meantime.)
Thoughts?
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Monica
C (12/2001), N (11/2005), M (5/2008), J (8/2009) and three angels
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JodieLyn
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I think any time we're immersed in something that to find the enjoyment we need to find a way to step back and see what's going on, not just be making it happen.
I'm not sure how to make that happen. I know I've done it more as I've gotten older and I make more of an effort to enjoy those last baby moments before they're all gone. Not that I didn't before.. just putting a bit more effort into it.
It also helps when I can remember it's about more than getting the list done. And simply moving a bit slower. I can stop and watch the kids before I herd them onto the next task. And sometimes I even decide to let them do whatever they're doing because I took the time to watch them and really saw what was going on.
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Kitty witty
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| Posted: June 17 2014 at 11:28pm | IP Logged
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Sorry for a late reply. Monica, I have been feeling the same way. I was beating myself up about it and feeling a little jealous of moms who enjoy their kids after they return from school. Then I realized that it wasn't the kids, it was everything. The dark fog was returning and I just wasn't finding much joy anywhere.
I do think that sometimes "absence makes the heart grow fonder." That does not mean that sending them to school is the #1 answer. There are other ways-play time outside, extracurriculars, even just a stricter bedtime for parents to recoup. In the past, I have felt like I enjoyed my kids the most when we were closer and spent more time together. I think reading on the wrong forums (not here) and being around some negative influences has colored my perspective.
There is so much negativity in some places about being a mother, spending time with our children, or even just the way we refer to our children. Recently I called my children "animals" and it hit me. That is not like me. I stepped back to think about how I just had referred to my wonderful children and it saddened me. So I am starting first with a detox of negative influences on me, as a parent. Could you make checklists and routines that incorporate fun and joy? What things do you most enjoy doing with your children? Catch yourself smiling and laughing this week and make notes about what is working. Expand from there to do more of that. Having a time set aside for prayer and meditation and focusing on what you are grateful for and brings you joy might be a good first step before touring the public schools. Since I am also Type A, I am making pretty charts and lists about how I will do this.  I am hoping that will help me, at least.
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CrunchyMom
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I missed this thread when you first posted it, Monica. How are things now? Are you still feeling this way?
Are there any routines or activities you were doing when you felt you enjoyed your children more? Things you aren't doing now?
For me, read alouds are a barometer for the dynamics between me and my kids. It is quality time, snuggle time for the sugglers, laughing together time, etc... We go through phases where it is really hard (uncooperative babies and toddlers) and we get out of the habit, but if I want to give our family dynamics a good shot in the arm, I look for a good read aloud to start together.
Maybe it is something different for you and your children? Are you running around more now? Not as much and everyone is stir crazy? Missing meals together? Are the kids not spending as much time outside? Are they watching more tv or playing more video games? I find too much screen time for them can irritate me just because of the constant residual noise if I am in the next room. Maybe there are some small changes you can make that will lessen the strain on your nerves somewhat.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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SeaStar
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I also missed this thread, Monica 
I can relate- sometimes I feel as though it's all cooking, cleaning, taking kids places, and haggling with them to keep the house clean 
I have always had a chore system in place, with each kid having certain chores to do daily. However, in the past month I have gone back and really reconsidered this area. We could have more fun, and I could enjoy my kids more, if I had more help- consistently and without a struggle- around the house.
I went in search of sample chore charts and found this post, which was enormously helpful to me. OK, the detail in some of them blew me away  . I realized that I needed to reorganize my chore system and be much more specific about what I wanted my dc to do each day.
I spent a couple of hours working on my own version of a detailed chart, first making a list of all the chores that I feel weigh me down, as in they are always on my mind as needing to get done. I made a weekly list for each kid and laminated it so they can check off the chores each day as they go. They switch lists monthly.
This is working really well- my ds has said several times that he likes having what he has to do each day spelled out for him so he can plan.
He said he never liked it when I would ask him out of the blue to vacuum or empty the dryer, etc. And I find myself more relaxed and feel as though we are truly working as a family and helping each oher 
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SeaStar
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Forgot to add that I also put up a list of extra chores that can be done to earn money... such as cleaning the outside of the kitchen cabinets, extra vacuuming/mopping, washing windows, etc.
So far I have not had many takers on those... but you never know!
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jawgee
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| Posted: June 18 2014 at 9:39am | IP Logged
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I thank you ladies for your input. I came back to this thread in tears that you are all gently encouraging me and sharing your thoughts.
Shortly after this post we left for a three-week much-needed vacation. It was so nice, and we all needed some quality family time.
Since we got back, at the end of May, I've only been having the kids do math and reading each day. We're moving into summer-mode. It's been relaxing for me to not have to constantly be keeping people focused and checking and double-checking their work.
Melinda, I have chore packs for the kids! We don't use them consistently, because my older two do know what they have to do each morning, and generally they do it.
So, I'll just lay it all out there...
On normal school days, I get frustrated because the boys need my constant attention to stay on-task, and in the meantime my girls (who were ages 5 and 4) generally did anything to make a mess. Coloring, cutting, and gluing are their favorite pastimes. By the end of the school day, I feel like I've been a drill sergeant all day, and at the end I'm faced with making dinner and cleaning up a mess.
I know in these instances I need to work on habit training - obedience, cleanliness, diligence. I have Laying Down the Rails for Children, and I'll plan to start that in the fall. That, though, brings me to the other major frustration during my day - morning readings.
I envision us all cuddling on the couch and enjoying nice stories, interesting history, and observing art pieces. That part of the day, though, starts my day off on the wrong foot. The four kids bicker about who gets to sit next to me, who had the blanket first, and which subject they want to read first. One whines when we get to science, the other whines when we get to history. They don't sit still, interrupt, and refuse to participate (answering questions, doing narrations, repeating memory verses, etc.) It only takes about 45 minutes (of which I don't expect the full attention of the younger two), but it is not a fun time for us.
Then, after the long school day I don't have any interest in spending more time with them. I just need a break from all the chaos and stress. I am introverted by nature, so being on-task with them for 4-5 hours is taxing for me.
I guess more specifically I am asking:
-how do I work on habit training without eye-rolling and sighing from my older two? We tried to do The Young Peacemaker this year, and it was a dismal failure. The one thing the older two agreed on is that they hated that book. The stories, the cartoons, and the nicety-nice talk annoyed them.
-what rules/expectations could I put in place to make our morning reading time more enjoyable?
-how do I implement and stand by any guidelines without turning into an ogre?
Thank you so much for your input!
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Monica
C (12/2001), N (11/2005), M (5/2008), J (8/2009) and three angels
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JodieLyn
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We don't have cuddly reading times.. well some do. But I have kids that sitting and doing nothing means they pay less attention that if they're up wandering around doing little things. Those pictures of everyone sitting around so nicely can kill the ability to enjoy those times. When they were all little I'd been known to assign seats and have something (color crayons and paper for instance) for those that need something else to be able to listen.
What about reading during breakfast? Then everyone has hands and mouths busy and you can give everyone a break while you eat so that you're not trying to go right from that into other things. Send them outside so that you aren't dealing with inside messes.
Eyerolling and sighs aren't respectful and I might deal with them in that way. Excuse that child to their bed without stuff until you're done.. if it's necessary school work, they'll have to do it on their own another time of the day.
My oldest went through a lot of attitude adjustments with her nose on the wall. Sending her to her room only meant a lot of self-victim talk going on (her telling herself how it's everyone else's fault) so we went to the nose on the wall so that I could continue to correct that sort of talk from what "they" did to what she did. 
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G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
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Booksnbabes
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| Posted: June 18 2014 at 10:21am | IP Logged
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jawgee wrote:
| -how do I implement and stand by any guidelines without turning into an ogre? |
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I don't have much time, but the key to this I think is having clear (written out?) guidelines posted. I'm married to an engineer, so I envision flowcharts! But a very clear "If...then..." type of chart. Then for those who can read, a simple "x happened, the consequence is y" and directing them to the chart if there is an attempt at further negotiations should be enough. I can stay calm through that, and it takes the focus off me and puts it on the action and consequence. It makes me less a drill sergeant.
The hard part, for me, is letting those consequences be enough. I have a couple who will accept the consequence but not seem to care about changing the behavior, which drives me CRAZY and makes me want to heap coals upon their heads. This is where the chart would help me because I could step out of the consequence-doling role in the heat of the moment.
For the bickering about where to sit, blankets, etc. the consequence here is we are done reading. One warning, then that is it (I give the warning because while I know having the flowchart posted is a good idea, I have yet to actually produce such a flowchart for our home. ) Then I tell them that because we are not having our reading time, they all have time for an extra chore. This is where having a list of random little chores comes in handy.
We actually role-play the correct response to being asked to do something--my dh is really good about this--and it has helped. If they begin behaving as they shouldn't, we stop, ask them if this is the appropriate behavior/response, ask them what the appropriate behavior/response would be, then ask them to demonstrate it. It isn't fail-proof, but it works a lot of the time, and it allows the child to show that they really do know the right way to behave--and gives me a chance to praise the correction of behavior rather than just pointing out what was going wrong.
I know the morning basket routine is part of your school, but if it is such a stress, maybe you should let it go??? Is there a time of day that might fit this kind of activity better? Maybe an afternoon basket? I find after lunch to lend itself better to everyone coming together to regroup. Mornings are too much about getting everyone going and getting some things done because we are more likely to be out and about in the afternoons. So we do our independent work and our chores and by the time lunch rolls around we have accomplished something at least and we are all ready for a break and cuddling on the couch comes more easily then than it does in the morning.
Well, this turned out to be longer than I though it would, and more rambling, and now I'm needed elsewhere. Just know you are NOT the only one, and we're all pulling for you! Prayers for you and your family.
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Booksnbabes
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Oh, and like Jodie said, our read-aloud time isn't always cuddling on the couch. The youngers are often engaged in a quiet activity where I can see them (coloring, wiki sticks, etc.) but not necessarily right there with me on the couch.
And outside time is ESSENTIAL for my sanity, and theirs.
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jawgee
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| Posted: June 18 2014 at 10:56am | IP Logged
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Booksnbabes wrote:
| For the bickering about where to sit, blankets, etc. the consequence here is we are done reading. One warning, then that is it (I give the warning because while I know having the flowchart posted is a good idea, I have yet to actually produce such a flowchart for our home. ) Then I tell them that because we are not having our reading time, they all have time for an extra chore. This is where having a list of random little chores comes in handy. |
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Thinking this through...
Our morning reading is the core of our work for the day. It covers our science, history, scripture, and other enrichments, so eliminating it isn't an option. I have had more success having it at lunchtime, so maybe I should try that again. I think I stopped because that is the time of the day when I start to want to be done with all things kid/school-related.
Perhaps our morning reading, if I keep it, could be something very enjoyable for them - a chapter from a book we're reading, just picture study, or an article from Nature Friend, to start the day on an enjoyable note.
Thanks to everyone who is continuing to guide me.
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Monica
C (12/2001), N (11/2005), M (5/2008), J (8/2009) and three angels
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Kitty witty
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I also stop reading when bickering and bad attitudes start. Honestly, I love that time so it's more a punishment for me! I have one kid who does not like read aloud time, so it doesn't discourage her behavior, but the peer pressure from her siblings usually helps. I just simply can not read when I'm continually interrupted or having to talk over people.
I have started assigning spots and giving little trays of playdough to the younger or fidgety kids. That sometimes helps. Could you have them go run laps or race before read alouds? What about doing read alouds in the morning-do chores, run off some energy or take a walk, then sit for read alouds? That way you won't already be feeling done for the day?
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CrunchyMom
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jawgee wrote:
Booksnbabes wrote:
| For the bickering about where to sit, blankets, etc. the consequence here is we are done reading. One warning, then that is it (I give the warning because while I know having the flowchart posted is a good idea, I have yet to actually produce such a flowchart for our home. ) Then I tell them that because we are not having our reading time, they all have time for an extra chore. This is where having a list of random little chores comes in handy. |
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Thinking this through...
Our morning reading is the core of our work for the day. It covers our science, history, scripture, and other enrichments, so eliminating it isn't an option. I have had more success having it at lunchtime, so maybe I should try that again. I think I stopped because that is the time of the day when I start to want to be done with all things kid/school-related.
Perhaps our morning reading, if I keep it, could be something very enjoyable for them - a chapter from a book we're reading, just picture study, or an article from Nature Friend, to start the day on an enjoyable note.
Thanks to everyone who is continuing to guide me. |
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Yes, for me "read-aloud" time is separate from "school." It might be educational, but it is stealthily so and separate from any timeline or hard goals I have, really.
And it isn't always cuddly AT ALL. Some of my kids *need* more cuddle time, and if they are feeling needy in that department, it is a good opportunity sometimes. There is often lego or toy train tracks or drawing happening while I read-aloud.
Also, for my morning basket, which is super-duper hard to get through and establish with baby and toddler, I have set up a schedule with a private blog in the model of easy-peasy homeschool. The kids can click on the links to librivox or YouTube themselves, so I can be there or leave or tend to baby or whatever. It has only been a few weeks in use and sporadically given a FHC and visit from grandparents, but it is much less dependent on me, and so far, the boys really like the independence it affords. They would get pretty frustrated dealing with the mayhem of their younger siblings. I cannot do all of the books I would like to, but there are a lot of resources available via audio recording or YouTube.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Booksnbabes
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| Posted: June 18 2014 at 2:50pm | IP Logged
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CrunchyMom wrote:
jawgee wrote:
Booksnbabes wrote:
| For the bickering about where to sit, blankets, etc. the consequence here is we are done reading. One warning, then that is it (I give the warning because while I know having the flowchart posted is a good idea, I have yet to actually produce such a flowchart for our home. ) Then I tell them that because we are not having our reading time, they all have time for an extra chore. This is where having a list of random little chores comes in handy. |
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Thinking this through...
Our morning reading is the core of our work for the day. It covers our science, history, scripture, and other enrichments, so eliminating it isn't an option. I have had more success having it at lunchtime, so maybe I should try that again. I think I stopped because that is the time of the day when I start to want to be done with all things kid/school-related.
Perhaps our morning reading, if I keep it, could be something very enjoyable for them - a chapter from a book we're reading, just picture study, or an article from Nature Friend, to start the day on an enjoyable note.
Thanks to everyone who is continuing to guide me. |
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Yes, for me "read-aloud" time is separate from "school." It might be educational, but it is stealthily so and separate from any timeline or hard goals I have, really.
And it isn't always cuddly AT ALL. Some of my kids *need* more cuddle time, and if they are feeling needy in that department, it is a good opportunity sometimes. There is often lego or toy train tracks or drawing happening while I read-aloud.
Also, for my morning basket, which is super-duper hard to get through and establish with baby and toddler, I have set up a schedule with a private blog in the model of easy-peasy homeschool. The kids can click on the links to librivox or YouTube themselves, so I can be there or leave or tend to baby or whatever. It has only been a few weeks in use and sporadically given a FHC and visit from grandparents, but it is much less dependent on me, and so far, the boys really like the independence it affords. They would get pretty frustrated dealing with the mayhem of their younger siblings. I cannot do all of the books I would like to, but there are a lot of resources available via audio recording or YouTube. |
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I think making morning basket more independent as suggested by Lindsay is an excellent idea if you want to keep doing it. I aspire to a morning basket, but just have not been able to make it work for us. I guess that's why I suggested chucking it all together. If it works for you, keep it!!!
And as to the quibbling about which subject is done first, you could put it on a rotating schedule. If you make it every other day, you can always have the consequence for whining/arguing about which subject is first to be that person's pet subject is relegated to second place again the next day.
Habit formation--so time-intensive! And on-going! And exhausting!
To start the morning on a positive note, should you move the basket time, you could have audiobook time while you eat, or science video time (we often had Robert Krampf "join" us for breakfast or lunch this past year ) or music time. Picture study can also be done at this time fairly easily, having the picture displayed while you eat, then discussing it afterward (I need to remember this idea! ).
Finding a rhythm that works is no easy task. This last year was the first where I kind of felt we were hitting our stride, and this is our 7th year!
Starting another reply as my thoughts are now running on another tangent...
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Booksnbabes
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jawgee wrote:
I guess more specifically I am asking:
-how do I work on habit training without eye-rolling and sighing from my older two? We tried to do The Young Peacemaker this year, and it was a dismal failure. The one thing the older two agreed on is that they hated that book. The stories, the cartoons, and the nicety-nice talk annoyed them.
-what rules/expectations could I put in place to make our morning reading time more enjoyable?
-how do I implement and stand by any guidelines without turning into an ogre?
Thank you so much for your input! |
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1) Habit formation--revisit Laying Down the Rails? (I say this, but I've never actually read that book--which I've owned for about 5 years! ) I'm not much help here. Dh has always insisted upon the children speaking respectfully, so that has been an ingrained habit and I've not had to worry much about it. It does happen, but when it does I usually just have to stop the child, ask if that was respectful, and ask the child to try again.
Maybe treat them more like little adults (the older two). Discuss why what you are asking of them is important, lay out clearly how you are going to tackle the bad habit, and make it a team effort rather than you as the drill sergeant. If you have a plan of attack, maybe phrase it that way. Make the bad habit the enemy, the good habit the prize. My boys love to make anything a battle or a game. Do they like sports? Maybe use sports terms to talk about how you are going to develop the desired habit.
2) Rules and expectations--this really depends on what you want the experience to look like. Maybe allow quiet activity while you read? Maybe give the older two a little more input on what you will cover to increase interest? Or make it more independent with audiobooks, etc? Maybe they all have to sit on the couch but they can have a sketch book or wiki sticks or beeswax or something to engage their hands? For our 4th child, simply having a piece of gum to chew can be the difference between having a human tornado on the couch or a slightly wiggly little one. Can snacks be implemented with this reading time? That might help too.
3) not being an ogre--Um, I'm pretty good at ogre, so I don't know how much help I am. I know I gave some suggestions earlier, but I also freely admit that I'm good at ideas, bad at implementing them.  It really does help if I have the consequences laid out for the most common offenses though. It takes the burden of coming up with an appropriate consequence in the heat of the moment. And I think I mentioned outdoor time--I cannot stress enough how much this helps to diffuse many difficult days. And maybe morning will work for the basket if there is some good physical activity first. Maybe do some sort of P.E.--jumping jacks, laps around the house, push ups, wii fit, whatever--so they are feeling less inclined to bicker and more inclined to engage?
You've obviously hit a chord with me here as I am giving all of what you've said much thought. I could have written your original post, and though our more relaxed school schedule in the summer is helping somewhat, I still have those days where I really wonder if they wouldn't be better off with someone else most of the day.
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JodieLyn
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Instead of doing the read aloud for multiple subjects all at once.. could you spread it out some? so that you only do one or two at a time.. and then you could do things like.. gather for a shorter read aloud time, then do something independent, then take a break, then gather for a short read aloud time then do something independent then take a break.
This will build in a bit of change for the kids that don't want to sit through as much. Give you better attention during read alouds since it's for a shorter time. And give all of you a break so it doesn't feel continuous.
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ekbell
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I've cut down on reading together and assigned more independent reading for my 15, 10 and 13 year old dds (we still have one family read-aloud plus a bit of picture study and once a week Sunday reading and liturgical year review) because I've needed time for my learning to read crew (now eight and just turned six) plus toddler. As it is there have been times when I've had my 15 or 13 year old read so that I could deal with a screaming toddler.
I've split my schooling day up into chunks with each chunk after the family read-aloud devoted to a different child or age group. While doing this I try *hard* to pay as *little* attention as is compatible with maintaining safety to the children I am not working with. The children have independent work that they are *supposed* to work on while I'm busy with someone else but I find it easier if I don't expect any one but the 15 year old to have actually done it.
Once I've finished working with the kids, any remaining work is 'homework' -if 'homework' is not done then various predetermined consequences come into play, mostly involving denial of privileges and having to fit themselves around my break-time and housework time if they need more help.
As for cutting and pasting messes -having a set area for making such messes and having the children responsible for cleaning up that area has gone a long way to making it more tolerable. A easy to access box to put scrap paper for recycling and small buckets for everything else have also helped.
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Spinoff: Enjoying your kids
