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Maggie
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| Posted: Nov 16 2009 at 10:35pm | IP Logged
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Hi Moms~
You know...holidays are no vacation for us. We have our own struggles with our families...yes, we are the "black" sheep...(aka: we love the Magisterium, the Church's guidance, and our faith)...
There was a recent divorce in the family. My husband's only sister...and there is only 1 baby cousin that my children have...and she is the child of the divorced couple. Whenever my children have seen their cousin, occassionally, my 4.5 yo asks "where is A's daddy?" To which we respond, "he's at work." Which is probably true.
Now...we are told that our child's only cousin will not be present at Thanksgiving because she will be with her father. How do we explain that to our children? They will be CRUSHED!
AND...
Their aunt is bringing a boyfriend to dinner.
How do we explain that??!?!?! (Uh...gee...that is your aunt's friend...yeah, he came...but your cousin didn't...she's...uh...1.5...and...went...ummm....how bout some dessert?). How lame does that sound?
Keep in mind, I have one of those children who asks questions about EVERYTHING. You know...the real hard questions that make you wince inside...and you pray to the Holy Spirit for guidance before you even utter a word...because you know...if you slip up...your child will know. 
So...we don't know what to do! We are torn. Do we even go to Thanksgiving? Risking our children's innocence? (We are VERY big on preserving the innocence of our children).
Do we try to give dh's sister materials/resources? (As of this evening, she did not even know what an annulment was...)  But dh does not want to be confrontational at all...though, we have differing opinions as to what the definition of "confrontational" is. ;) I'm Irish, what can I say?
Joking aside...this is not good.
Like I said, we have really sticky relations with our families as it is...did we really need this monkey-wrench? Great.
Aside from us...we're really not the main issue. I do pray for this family member's soul...because what is going on is objectively, morally wrong. This bothers me the most...maybe because I listened to a talk on Purgatory today.
Any advice is appreciated. We just do not know what to do.
God Bless,
__________________
Wife to dh (12 years) Mama to dd (10) ds (8), dd (1), ds (nb) and to Philip Mary (5/26/09), Lucy Joy (12/6/09), and Margaret Mary (3/6/10) who entered Heaven before we had a chance to hold them.
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Nov 16 2009 at 11:35pm | IP Logged
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Maggie, at some point you're going to have to be honest with your children about the situation. It's sad that anyone ever has to discuss it. But your "spin" on the situation can help greatly in the impact this makes.. and you can manage that better if you don't wait until you're backed into a corner and have to explain it on the spot in front of everyone in one sentence or less.
Sure you can avoid it again by not going to Thanksgiving. And you might be able to do that for a while. But it's only going to get more complicated.
I'm considering how to explain a divorce to our children in the next few days.. It's never easy. I generally try to put the spin on it that it's very sad but that it's their choice. You can also work into it the proper teaching on marriage.
But then I figure when my children will notice, that a simple explanation that answers the question and directs them toward the truth.. will satisfy them and the situation won't draw their attention near so much as one that is confusing to them (so they ask questions) and pay attention to more so that they can figure it out.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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LucyP
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Our experience, for what it is worth, is that we had a divorce in our family. DS, who was 4, did ask where Uncle x was. We just explained that it was very sad, but not all grown ups believe that a husband and wife belong to each other "for ever", and that Aunty and Uncle had decided not to be married. We did talk a bit about how there is a difference between the law of our country and the law of God/Church, and the government said people could decide not to be married, but God wanted husbands and wives to keep their promise to love and be married. We said it was something that made Jesus sad, and that Catholics could not do, but that it wasn't the job of a little boy to talk to his aunty or cousin about it. And (sadly) he just accepted it. Our son is nearly 6 and we live in a city, and sadly he has to know that not everyone will try to live in obedience to Jesus and His Church. I said a prayer for your family.
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mathmama
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Well, our situation is a little different, but this is what we do...we just don't go. When dh's sister is in town with her friend (who is also female) we just don't go to the family functions. This all started last year when our oldest was 4. She is a sharp girl and we knew she would see something was up (sil and her friend don't always act like they are just friends). We figured age 4 was too early for her to understand that their behavior was contrary to God's plan (well, that much she seems to have figured out on her own), but that we should hate the sin love the sinner. Plus, we are very careful about guarding our children's innocence. Of course, when all our children are old enough to understand we may start going back to family functions, but by that time I would figure my elderly in laws would have passed on and our contact with my sil will have probably ceased. Dh has made our beliefs known to his family and they are either hostile to our position or just plain do not care.
My oldest dd is excited about seeing her cousins that are coming to town for Thanksgiving, but if we cannot arrange a meeting before my sil arrives then unfortunately she will not get to see them 
Beth
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guitarnan
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| Posted: Nov 17 2009 at 7:46am | IP Logged
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We've taken an approach similar to Lucy's. Now that my children are older, we've given them more information, but I still withhold things that I don't think my 11yo needs to deal with right now (abuse, for example).
The hardest part as your children grow older will be to convince other family members not to air all this in unsavory detail in front of your children. Adults often get so caught up in either exchanging information or worrying about a situation that they forget to guard their words.
Dh and I have also committed to the idea of not exposing our children to the scandal of unmarried relatives sharing quarters with their "friends" - we have been fortunate not to have to deal with this, so far, but all unmarried people who visit here know the rules...(maybe that is why they don't visit, LOL). I really would stay home rather than give tacit approval by my presence - so, in that regard, I think Beth's approach makes sense.
Adding my prayers for everyone here...these situations are so sad and difficult, and the children are the ones who suffer most.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Maggie
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| Posted: Nov 17 2009 at 8:42am | IP Logged
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In my heart and my gut...I really feel like we cannot go. We just can't. There is no explanation that I can give my 4.5 year old that would not "rock her world." In fact, if I told her that this situation makes Jesus sad, she would melt...she is oh so sensitive...
Please pray for dh and I. We need serious prayers as we see eye-to-eye...and yet, we don't. He is afraid of this completely blowing up (and it will)...In the past, we had another situation years ago...but we received a lot of very hateful emails and phone calls...and for years, relations were really strained. It was horrible to go through...but it was the right decision. We can look back now and see that it was absolutely right...but it did not make it easy at all. It is still painful to think about. And now this! Ugh...
Please pray for our spiritual director that he may guide us appropriately.
Thank you for your kind advice. I greatly appreciate it.
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Wife to dh (12 years) Mama to dd (10) ds (8), dd (1), ds (nb) and to Philip Mary (5/26/09), Lucy Joy (12/6/09), and Margaret Mary (3/6/10) who entered Heaven before we had a chance to hold them.
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SuzanneG
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For us, neither of these situations would be reason to stay away. They are completely explainable to a 4 yo. Give as little infomration as possible (because she's only 4!) Be honest and don't shy away from the truth if she persists. But, be prudent, and don't tell ALL. You're going to encounter divorce everywhere. We don't even HAVE family here, and we are surrounded by divorce and explaining it all the time. It gives an opportunity when they are a bit older to "ease into" convos about the birds and the bees. This is the door to open/honest communication with dc. They need to hear these things from you, instead of anyone else.
Keep things light and upbeat with a smile!
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| Now...we are told that our child's only cousin will not be present at Thanksgiving because she will be with her father. How do we explain that to our children? They will be CRUSHED! |
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"Not EVERYONE can be at every family party! I think X is probably at her daddy's family today! Maybe you'll see her next time!"
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| Their aunt is bringing a boyfriend to dinner.How do we explain that??!?!?! |
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So, if she asks, "Who is that?"
"Oh, that's Aunt Gina's friend! Isn't it fun to meet new people?"
If she asks more, I'd answer similar to Lucy's response.
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Suzanne in ID
Wife to Pete
Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
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Mimip
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| Posted: Nov 17 2009 at 9:05am | IP Logged
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Maggie,
We have dealt with a wide variety of things in our family that fall into the sticky family issues category. We have dealt with them in many different ways depending on the situation.
We have a niece that was born out of wedlock that is not baptized and my older children agonize over this. (the baptism part) We have explained over and over that her parents have decided this but you can imagine the anguish they feel over this. Now they just pray for her and her parents and trust in the Mercy of God, which is how we tried to explain it to them.
They asked questions when she was born about how it was that their unmarried uncle has a daughter but we just explained that God wants children to be born into a family with married parents but that people can choose to disobey God and have children outside of the context of marriage. (We also took this opportunity to talk about how wonderful it was that they choose life! and that we get to have another cousin.) My BIL and his girlfriend do live together but since we live out of state, that topic has not even been talked about with my children.
My parents marriage is annulled and so my father has dated quite a bit. Thankfully he has only brought two women in the past 10 years to any event but this Thanksgiving/Christmas is going to be a tough one since he'll be bringing his much younger (she is younger than me) girlfriend. We have avoided this for as long as possible but with my grandmother being in poor health I feel strongly that we need to be there this Thanksgiving. We are going to tell my children she is just a friend. I know its lame but my kids are young enough still that we are hoping to avoid some questions.
As to the same s*x relationships we have chosen not to attend when they will be present. We have an aunt that lives with her "friend" and we have made it clear that when they are there, we will not be there. My father has thankfully respected our wishes and we have been able to avoid any exposer to that for our children.
Okay, that was a much longer post than intended I'll be praying for all of us and our extended family situations this holiday season! Good luck!
__________________
In Christ,
Mimi
Wife of 16 years to Tom, Mom of DD'00, DD'02, '04(in heaven) DS'05, DS'08 and DS '12
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Maddie
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Maggie wrote:
In my heart and my gut...I really feel like we cannot go. We just can't. There is no explanation that I can give my 4.5 year old that would not "rock her world." In fact, if I told her that this situation makes Jesus sad, she would melt...she is oh so sensitive...
Please pray for dh and I. We need serious prayers as we see eye-to-eye...and yet, we don't. He is afraid of this completely blowing up (and it will)...In the past, we had another situation years ago...but we received a lot of very hateful emails and phone calls...and for years, relations were really strained. It was horrible to go through...but it was the right decision. We can look back now and see that it was absolutely right...but it did not make it easy at all. It is still painful to think about. And now this! Ugh...
Please pray for our spiritual director that he may guide us appropriately.
Thank you for your kind advice. I greatly appreciate it.
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I totally agree with your decision. We've been able to keep our children from "family issues" by NOT attending get togethers and such and keeping it at bay. Now that they are older, I have several teens, they know a little bit about family, ahem, "history" and they are rightfully shocked. I didn't want them to have a calloused attitude about sin when they were younger, so we really strived to protect them. I'm so glad we did, they are so saddened now by broken families, abortion, contraception and so on. I think if it's presented as "normal" too early, they can become desensitised to it.
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~Maddie~
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crusermom
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Maggie, I am so sorry you are going through this. We too have divorce in our family. I just told my older children that Aunt L did not want to be married any more and Uncle P is very sad about it. The simple truth. I don't think any of my children at four would have needed to know more than that their cousin isn't here and is with her daddy today. One idea is to tell them ahead of time.
Bottom line is you need to do what you think is best for your children.
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Mary
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Bethany
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Oh Maggie, this stuff is always so hard. Recently, my husband had to decline being his brothers best man because he and his now wife were living together, he was in the process of getting an annulment, and they decided to get married in an Episcopal church so they could plan this huge thing and then worry about all that Catholic "stuff" later, maybe  . Luckily, work interfered and the kids and I did not even attend. Then there's my MIL and her "friend". She's also in the process of getting an annulment but they're living together and are sure to tell everyone (but me) that their priests said it's OK and they still take communion because they're in a "committed relationship"  . The first time they visited they slept in seperate rooms, so I thought they understood. However, this past weekend when they came I went to bed before them and get up to find they are sleeping together . I guess since we rearranged the house, they thought that was the all clear to do whatever. Nevermind, that we could never get her to sleep in a bed before, she ALWAYS slept on the couch. They want us to take a week long beach vacation next summer and I just don't think I can stomach it. They also want us to come to "their" house and I considered because it might be easier than the week long event, but I finally decided I just couldn't.
Be thankful you and your DH are on the same page. My Dh too a lot of heat for not being in the wedding and this is his mother so it makes it even harder. He knows it's wrong and doesn't want to expose the children to it, but he also want's to maintain the peace with his mother, especially since he has no relationship with his dad.
In your situation, I think I would explain everything ahead of time and go. I would also agree with DH that if anything goes a wry, we would politely leave
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Bethany
Wife to Mike, Mommy to Amelia (6/02), Sarah (10/03), Martha Grace (10/05), Rebecca Anne (12/07), Laura Catherine (3/10) and Reed Michael 7/4/14.
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Paula in MN
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Unfortunately, divorce happens. In almost every family. It is incredibly hard to explain to kids, and even to some adults! You have to make the right decision for your family as to whether you attend and what you share with your kids. I am a former "divorced" woman, and it would have hurt me so much if my family wouldn't attend functions because of me. I didn't ask to be divorced, he wanted and obtained one. There was nothing I could do about it, and I'm grateful that my family knew that. I guess I'm just trying to say there is more than one way to look at a situation. Good luck with your decision!
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 Paula
A Catholic Harvest
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Maggie
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Paula in MN wrote:
| Unfortunately, divorce happens. In almost every family. It is incredibly hard to explain to kids, and even to some adults! You have to make the right decision for your family as to whether you attend and what you share with your kids. I am a former "divorced" woman, and it would have hurt me so much if my family wouldn't attend functions because of me. I didn't ask to be divorced, he wanted and obtained one. There was nothing I could do about it, and I'm grateful that my family knew that. I guess I'm just trying to say there is more than one way to look at a situation. Good luck with your decision! |
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Paula, I am so sorry for your hurt. That must be something terrible to wrap your mind around, especially if it is not mutual. I did not mean to be offensive to anyone who has had this horrible hurt in their past. Please forgive me if it came across that way.
In this case, we are not "avoiding" family because of the divorce. We wouldn't do that. We have hung out with the family on numerous occasions when my SIL is there with her daughter. My daughter does ask where her cousin's dad is...and we just tell her that he is at work...which is probably true.
What is bothersome is that an annulment has not been obtained or even looked into...and there is another relationship going on...and that man will be present.
Furthermore, their cousin will *not* be present...so this is going to be very difficult as they have been looking forward to seeing her for weeks! How do you explain to a 4yo that a baby is not with its mommy? That just does not make sense.
We are not just going for dinner...we are going for 3-4 days...in which this man will be there for 3-4 days as well. If it was just dinner, I think we could possibly do it...but to be around this other man for that long and to just call him a "friend" is going to be difficult..especially if there are any displays of affection, etc. It will even be hard for me, personally.
For our children, things are very black and white...they are very innocent. Yes, I know divorce happens a lot. Thankfully, within all of our home school and non-home school friends alike, this has not been an issue that we have been presented with.
This is just an example of how people think that their sin is their sin...and don't realize how it affects other people...especially children.
Thank you all for your continued advice and prayers.
God Bless,
Maggie
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Wife to dh (12 years) Mama to dd (10) ds (8), dd (1), ds (nb) and to Philip Mary (5/26/09), Lucy Joy (12/6/09), and Margaret Mary (3/6/10) who entered Heaven before we had a chance to hold them.
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Maddie
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Paula in MN wrote:
| I am a former "divorced" woman, and it would have hurt me so much if my family wouldn't attend functions because of me. |
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Paula, I shouldn't have made such a broad, sweeping generalization. I was thinking of my own multi-marriage relatives/alcoholic/drama etc situations that I just couldn't stomach to have my children around. My very dear friend was divorced by her husband, who she still loves, and we would never, ever, exclude her because of the divorce. I hope I haven't offended you, I should stick to the home ec forum/topics...
I guess it really is a case-by-case basis.
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~Maddie~
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Paula in MN
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Maggie and Maddie,
In no way did you offend me or hurt me. AT ALL. I just wanted to point out the other side.
I agree with you that there are many situations children should not be around or even know about. I agree that it is very odd that annulment hasn't been looked into, yet there is a new relationship. I think if you go you should tell them their cousin and her dad are spending the holidays with his family, and their aunt is spending the holidays with your family.
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Paula
A Catholic Harvest
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juststartn
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We've got the same issues in our family...fortunately, there are so many of us, that they don't expect us to come visit for holidays (DH's parents pre-deceased our marriage, so that is not an issue, thankfully)...
We've got one of his sisters in a same-sex relationship--she lives in AK, and we see her once every 6 yrs or so. Whew. My oldest is similar to yours, Maggie, and I was praaaayyyying that she wouldn't notice anything while we were at a family reunion when she was 5. Oh mercy, we scraped by, but we made it.
We've got two SILs who are divorcing this year. While the children never met/got to know their "uncles", it would definitely be brought up. Of all of my SILs/BILs, only two of those who have married, have not divorced (and DH is one of 13), several have (pardon the expression) shacked up, we've got the out-of-wedlock baby, the same sex 'relationship', the divorce, more divorce--and that's just on DH's side. On mine, we've got divorce, shacking up, and my parents' weird relationship (if you think *this* is a long post...lol).
Anyway, we just handle it as best we can, as it comes. We try to explain that unfortunately, not everyone wants to live the way Jesus wants us to...that this is sad. That we should pray for them (we pray ALOT). That while we disagree with them, prayer is the best gift we can give them, and that asking about it is likely only to hurt them...
Because Lord knows, I have NOOOO desire to get into those topics...
Rachel
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Explaining Extended Family Issues to dc
