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10 Bright Stars
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| Posted: March 25 2007 at 4:49pm | IP Logged
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Since we are on the subject here and there concerning organization, I wanted to bring up another major problem we have at our home, daily kitchen disaster.
I have 7 children ages 1-12. We eat three meals a day, obviously, with two snacks. (morning and late evening) After each meal, the table is always covered in food, the floor is covered in food, the chairs are sticky with this or that or spilled water or milk, and the trash door is covered in stuff all the time too. We clean our kitchen 4 times a day. I have the chores split up amongst the children according to age and talent. No one but me cares about the messes in the kitchen, and I have nagged and trained the kids over and over again how to do a job correctly. If they don't do it correctly, I try to make them re-do the job. although sometimes I just do it myself since it annoys me. So, you would think my kitchen would be spic-n-span, right? It is always a source of actual sadness for me. Not even stress so much as sadness. To me, a kitchen should be the pulse of a home; warm, welcoming, CLEAN. I know it can't be immaculate, but even my husband wondered alound last night as he went through there, "Where are we going wrong in training them?" My husband and I had gone in to help the kids at night for awhile, but we ended up doing most of the cleaning. I would rather just do it all myself since I clean it up much faster, and don't make it worse by "cleaning" like the kids do. But, my spouse and I don't get much alone/ chat time, and he likes the after dinner time to unwind a bit with me.
So, I guess I was wondering when you all trained your children in table manners! I correct them, and ask them to be neat in their own little areas, and it is still a mess. I always joke that Conan the Barbarian has eaten here, but of course, they are too young to know who he is. DO you all set aside table manner training at a separate time from mealtime? I notice that we are all ravinous by dinner anyway, so everyone sort of digs in. I am usually the last to sit down and the last to get up due to needing to help the twins with food etc. I had thought about keeping all the food on the island, and serving dinner resturant style, with a pre-ordained amount of food. I usually put the food on the table and we pass it, but then they spill food while serving themselves etc. (I help the little ones, but the older ones etc.) It seems like a silly question now that I ask it. In my home, we were all well-mannered, and if you splurped your drink or didn't do this or that, you were given a stern look, which seemed to be enough for me!! It was even worse when I would visit my fraternal Grandparents!! Very strict when it came to mealtime!!! I don't really know where I/we went wrong on this, and wonder how I can "start fresh" to interest the kids in table manners, and wonder what to do to not make kitchen duty such a daunting task? My oldest the other day remarked, "It shouldn't be this hard and stressful to feed our family every day." I must admit I agree. My husband remarked, when we helped out with nightly dishes for awhile, (I do help with breakfast and lunch usually) that it feels like we are having company every night. (As far as how many dishes there seem to be, and how stressful it.)
So, may seem like a simplistic question, but I was raised in a two child family where Mom did everything in the kitchen, by choice, so I am obviously missing something in the "streamlined" department. How can we make it easier? I get stressed out just walking into my kitchen these days and wonder what to do?
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Kim married to Bob (22y)
Mom of 11 blessings:
Bobby 19, David 17, Noah 14,
Mary 12, Gracie 10,
Isabelle and Sophia 8,
Gabrielle 6,
William Anthony 4, Joseph 3 and Luisa Marie - born in M
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Erin
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Kim
This brings to mind a post I wrote last year and then shortly deleted, I was too embarrassed  actually I got a lovely email from Brigid asking where it went as she was going to answer 
My post was along a similar vein, food was being left throughout the entire house, the dc would make a sandwhich and leave a mess  behind, they would then eat on the verandah and leave their plates and crusts behind I was finding apple cores on the lawn see why I deleted it (I have censored here) anyhow I did improve the situation to a large degree.
SeventhHeaven wrote:
| If they don't do it correctly, I try to make them re-do the job. although sometimes I just do it myself since it annoys me. |
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Well that was my big mistake, I would rant and rave all the while cleaning up the mess myself. The dc just tuned out. I began calmly, yes I actually stayed calm,  calling the dc back and making them put the lids back on items, returning food to the fridge and putting compost in the bins etc. Also whenever I found food scraps around I led the culprit by the hand to the mess and got them to clean up. They did improve but they will slip occasionally and then I have to stay 'on top' of it.
BTW my dc are of similar age to yours 13 down to 8mths. I improved their behaviour to a degree but not their attitudes, it amazes me that my dd13 says that she is not bothered by the mess, that it doesn't disturb her Then again she could just be pushing my buttons. (I hope so)
Kim, hang in their it is tough now I know. But they are old enough to clean the kitchen and if that is what they are meant to do stick to it. I often fall into your trap too  and really what your dc are doing now is trying to outwait you because you have caved in before. I know because mine do it too.
As for table manners our boys are disgusting. Our dd5 is better than them. Particularly the ds 9 and 7. At present we are taking different nights with each boy to correct/pick on?  so they get a break one night.
Could you and dh serve the younger ones? Or perhaps sit a neater child next to a messier one and the neat one serve? A friend of mine does serve at her island.
Just a thought but it is good training for everyone to wait till you sit down before they start to eat. We're in the process of bringing back in the rule that everyone must be finished before anyone can leave. We have slipped on this one. I guess because it gives dh and I some time together once the dc have left. But I was soo embarassed at Christmas time when ds7 couldn't understand why Grandma said he couldn't leave yet.
I tried to inspire the boys about the pages and squires of long ago and how they had to have good manners as part of their training, so when they are being messy I remind them that they are 'knights in training'. My dd5 wants to be a princess so I remind her that she is a 'princess in training' and her big sister is a 'lady in training'.
SeventhHeaven wrote:
| I am obviously missing something in the "streamlined" department. How can we make it easier? I get stressed out just walking into my kitchen these days and wonder what to do? |
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What is it exactly that you are currently doing?
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Erin
Faith Filled Days
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marihalojen
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SeventhHeaven wrote:
| So, I guess I was wondering when you all trained your children in table manners! I correct them, and ask them to be neat in their own little areas, and it is still a mess. I always joke that Conan the Barbarian has eaten here, but of course, they are too young to know who he is. DO you all set aside table manner training at a separate time from mealtime? |
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I have run through table manners away from the table to reduce stress at dinner. As far as manners at the table, dd still prefers the Oops!: The Manners Guide for Girls. Regarding the cleaning up, we actually went through an entire course on home economics one year which was very nice, even for me! The book had very detailed lists of how to clean rooms, including kitchens! Like their by-line says: 99% of all children will have homes of their own some day. Are they prepared?
Pearables is a very Christian company, not Catholic. Lots of Bible verses sprinkled throughout the book but nothing that set off alarm bells.
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~Jennifer
Mother to Mariannna, age 13
The Mari Hal-O-Jen
SSR = Sailing, Snorkling, Reading
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MarieC
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marihalojen wrote:
| We actually went through an entire course on home economics one year which was very nice, even for me! The book had very detailed lists of how to clean rooms, including kitchens! Like their by-line says: 99% of all children will have homes of their own some day. Are they prepared? . |
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This series looks pretty interesting. Is it a workbook or textbook....got 3 girls, gotta know how many to order!
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Marie
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10 Bright Stars
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Erin,
I guess when I say I get stressed just walking into the kitchen, and wonder what to do, and don't know how to streamline things I mean that I am starting to dislike intensly anything to DO with cooking or being in the kitchen. I am always rushing to get a meal on the table it seems, and am always in a harried state. Last night, when I realized it was time for dinner, I almost broke down and cried. I felt terrible about that because I figured my job as mother is to nourish my children and to "love" to do this or something. I was standing there, wondering what to do with a lump of hamburger, and thought, "Maybe I should get a Rosary tape in here to listen to as I cook or SOMETHING because I just can't stand the perpetualness of it all." It is never-ending. There is always a meal to cook, then a meal to clean up, and then a mess to be met with due to the problems with KP, and poor table manners. So, I instantly get stressed going in there. I used to think it was the decorations or the paint color, and tried to make it feel comfortable for me in there, and nothing worked, so I think it must be a deeper issue.
So, right now, I am totally unorganized in there, always running out of stuff, (make a running list, I know!!!!!), but I never seem to have time to sit down to do those simple things that I used to do easily. The twins are into everything these days, and I wish I had spent the easier years (HA!) with a few children preparing myself for this crazy time!! I used to do Once A Month Cooking, but now find shopping for huge amounts like that and cooking all day exhausting and I can't spare a day of school to do it since I use Seton, and try to keep up as much as possible. So, I feel as if it would take me a month or more to "get on top" of things around here, so I am in fly by the seat of my pants mode!!
I knew someone else with a large family would understand at least!!   Thank you for that!!! I get very discouraged and keep waiting for things to "get straight" so I can go about with the task of living at a normal level of work or whatever. Is that what you meant by what am I doing? hehe Going in circles it seems!! Last night, I wondered what I looked like to those in Heaven. A chicken with my head cut off!!!!!
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Kim married to Bob (22y)
Mom of 11 blessings:
Bobby 19, David 17, Noah 14,
Mary 12, Gracie 10,
Isabelle and Sophia 8,
Gabrielle 6,
William Anthony 4, Joseph 3 and Luisa Marie - born in M
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marihalojen
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| Posted: March 26 2007 at 11:28am | IP Logged
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One would do, Marie.
We actually used one book in a co-op setting with a bunch of kids. We read the few pages it had for the week, then talked about the task they were to complete during the week, which might be menu planning or actually serving a vegetable they have cooked themselves at dinner three nights that week. (or sewing, cleaning, etc.)
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~Jennifer
Mother to Mariannna, age 13
The Mari Hal-O-Jen
SSR = Sailing, Snorkling, Reading
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MarieC
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Thanks, Jennifer!
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Marie
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Angel
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| Posted: March 26 2007 at 11:46am | IP Logged
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SeventhHeaven wrote:
So, right now, I am totally unorganized in there, always running out of stuff, (make a running list, I know!!!!!), but I never seem to have time to sit down to do those simple things that I used to do easily. The twins are into everything these days, and I wish I had spent the easier years (HA!) with a few children preparing myself for this crazy time!!
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I'm not sure anyone can *really* be prepared for twins, no matter how hard you try. We had to put cabinet and drawer locks on every single one of our cabinets/drawers down below, something we never had to do with our singles; for some reason, they didn't seem to feel the need to pull EVERY SINGLE THING out of EVERY SINGLE CABINET at the SAME TIME like my twins do. They're always a couple of steps ahead of me, too.
How old are your babies, btw? (Mine are just about 18 months.)
--Angela
Three Plus Two
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10 Bright Stars
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Angela,
Mine are 15 months old and you are right, they get into everything!! For some reason moreso than the singles. I think they put their little minds together and come up with more than usual!!
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Kim married to Bob (22y)
Mom of 11 blessings:
Bobby 19, David 17, Noah 14,
Mary 12, Gracie 10,
Isabelle and Sophia 8,
Gabrielle 6,
William Anthony 4, Joseph 3 and Luisa Marie - born in M
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Jess
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I have a question about table manners. We have never made our kids stay at the table until everyone is done, but I have been thinking of changing that. We do make them ask to be excused. So my question is whether you sit down with them for all 3 meals. I have a 3 week old who nurses practically constantly so sitting with them for all 3 meals is very difficult. I do sit with them at dinner (dh is deployed), but for the rest of the meals I feel good to just get the meal fixed LOL. I don't usually eat breakfast and lunch when they do. So if you don't sit with them for every meal, do you still make them wait until everyone is done? Or do you just do that at dinner? I have a couple that wolf their food down and a couple that take forever to finish.
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Jess
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SuzanneG
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Sometimes when the "perpetualness" (is that a word...I don't think so) gets to me. I take a week off....
1. to get organized (food lists, cupboards, meal plans)
2. to get the kitchen cleaned (more fun to work in a half-clean kitchen)
3. to get me fired up about cooking again.
4. to make the eaters grateful for prepared meals again (this would be a future goal, as my kids are too little to "appreciate" prepared food)
I actually don't turn the stove on. It's all just "raw food". Cheese, yogurt, veggies, fruit, granola bars, lunch meat, cold cereal, etc. My mom used to use paper plates, etc. for these "breaks".
Maybe a week like this so that you have just a few more hours to dedicate to getting your "systems" in place????
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Tami
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I'm going to piggy-back on what Suzanne said. I've been thinking about this all day long, and the one thing that keeps coming to mind is you've got to break the cycle.
For me, the first thing I would do would be to use paper plates, cups, etc. One cup per child per day, write their name on it. They may be a little more careful if they know they have to re-use it all day long. I might use paper for a week or two until things are more under control.
Right there, that reduces the clean-up, and you can then focus on table manners, etc. Brief teachings, maybe with just the older ones at first. Can you get them on board with you?? Maybe even give the older 2 a younger meal-time buddy to help cut food, etc.
Another point to make is for those old enough, tell them to check their place before they leave the table: wipe crumbs into their plate, pick up their napkin, check their floor (the area around their chair).
We've been down this road with our kids, and some of it is ongoing (boys make it particularly difficult - Erin, my guys have strewn food like that around the house! ) But eventually they do come around.
I could offer a # of other suggestions, but don't want to overwhelm you. That would only add to your burden. Why don't you post back with where you are as you make changes, then we can discuss some more?
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Tami
When we are crushed like grapes, we cannot think of the wine we will become. (Nouwen)
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Angel
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SuzanneG wrote:
Sometimes when the "perpetualness" (is that a word...I don't think so) gets to me. I take a week off....
1. to get organized (food lists, cupboards, meal plans)
2. to get the kitchen cleaned (more fun to work in a half-clean kitchen)
3. to get me fired up about cooking again.
4. to make the eaters grateful for prepared meals again (this would be a future goal, as my kids are too little to "appreciate" prepared food)
I actually don't turn the stove on. It's all just "raw food". Cheese, yogurt, veggies, fruit, granola bars, lunch meat, cold cereal, etc. My mom used to use paper plates, etc. for these "breaks".
Maybe a week like this so that you have just a few more hours to dedicate to getting your "systems" in place????
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This is great advice. We do this, too, when the kitchen seems totally overwhelming -- resort to paper plates, minimize cooking as much as possible (sandwiches!), focus on clearing clutter, etc. And it *really* helped when my dh locked all our cabinets!
Actually, we've just been through one of these overwhelming times, since I've only recently begun to climb out of my first trimester fog. After I started feeling better, the first thing I realized I had to do was take responsibility for the kitchen. For me, "taking responsibility" means that I make the effort to call the culprits back to the scene of the crime when they leave a mess; if a job isn't done right, I have them do it over; and I am now *ruthlessly* policing our kitchen island for clutter. (just ask my husband.) I've managed to break up the kitchen tasks so that while my 10 yo ds is responsible for unloading/loading the dishwasher and wiping counters, I will come in *after* him to wash pots, check his job, clean up the microwave, throw away recycling, and do the little extra things that were being left out. The kitchen still isn't perfect, but it's A LOT better than it was, and much easier to cook in.
As far as the floors go... we really ought to sweep 3 or 4 times a day, but I can't manage that, so I'm just trying to sweep up after dinner. So at least the floor is clean to start the day!
--Angela
Three Plus Two
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10 Bright Stars
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O.K. Who was praying for me about this because yesterday while I was making dinner I could FEEL graces!!!?  So, thank you to whoever may have had sympathy for me and offered up a prayer or two. Very ironic too that Tami, Angela and Suzanne would post about "taking charge" of the kitchen, or taking some time to organize etc., because yesterday, that was my exact thoughts!! I figured it was ridiculous, and even childish to NOT have a staples/pantry list, or a grocery list posted for someone like me. (forgetful/disorganized) So, I sat down and made one while I watched the kids play outside after school. So, that is underway as a first step!! Then, I started last night to clean up the kitchen while I made dinner so that the kids didn't have as much to do in certain areas, and it made me feel as if I could relax at dinner without the messes all around.
Then, today I was blessed to have my MIL come over and help out with school with the younger kids for 3 hours this morning!!! (YES! YES! YES!! She recently offered to do this when she can. (about once a week or two weeks when possible) She holds a masters in physics so she is very brainy AND she has used the curriculum provider I use for over 20 years. Can you say YIPEE with me??? This is an intersting side note because I was praying for "help" one day concerning feeling overwhelmed etc., and then she called about two days later. She lives right next door to me too so it is easy for her to walk over. )
ANYWAY, so today, as my dear little ones were being taught, and I helped the older one at the kitchen table, I cleaned the pantry AND the fridge, and thought that I have to help myself! Some people are good at this, and well, maybe I am a little handicapped in this area and should figure out strategies to help myself. I remember a story my husband once told me about a physicist friend his folks had over for dinner all the time. He used to forget everthing, despite his genius, and used to carry a little paper tablet around his neck to write down everything. That must have taken some humility to do, but he knew it was neccesary. SO, my point is, that I just have to do what it takes to get it straight no matter how long that takes to do!! I tend to get a "deer in the headlights" feeling sometimes, and then I just don't do anything since I can't think of a perfect solution. But, some sort of a solution is better than nothing, and I just have to try to catch up while I can!!! (The twins have been playing outside a lot in the afternoons, and since I can't walk around my drive-way like I used to for exercise without them freaking out or chasing me down, I have to sit anyway, so a perfect time for organizing on paper what needs to get done. )
I REALLY appreciate the support and suggstions, and it REALLY helped to have someone else to be accountable to, (interested ladies on this list), to get myself in gear and effect some small, positive changes!! I will use the above list from Suzanne to organize myself a bit, and re-read the posts when I get discouraged!!! I also thought I should dwell on being more grateful for being able to buy food, cook for my family, and for the nice kitchen I have.
So, things are looking up, and I think Angela was correct when she said "coming out of my first trimester fog" because I sometimes go through different phases of energy and mental outlook during pregnacy, (I just entered the 2nd trimester) and wonder to myself, "Who has been in charge here?" So, thanks for helping pull me up out of discouragment.
I don't know if perpetualness IS a word either!! I guess it expressed my mood though. How embarrasing!!
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Kim married to Bob (22y)
Mom of 11 blessings:
Bobby 19, David 17, Noah 14,
Mary 12, Gracie 10,
Isabelle and Sophia 8,
Gabrielle 6,
William Anthony 4, Joseph 3 and Luisa Marie - born in M
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SuzanneG
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Kim:
 How wonderful! God is so merciful with us, isn't He?!!!!
SeventhHeaven wrote:
| I don't know if perpetualness IS a word either!! I guess it expressed my mood though. How embarrasing!! |
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Blaaahhh....I didn't realize YOU had used that actual word.....I was actually making fun of my OWN use of it cuz it just seemed such a GREAT word at the time! We all just type away here as quickly as possible to get our point across!  No need to be embarrassed.....I'm the one who looked like a ninny
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Suzanne in ID
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SuzanneG
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I have a HS friend who breaks her "kitchen issues" down into catagories and then works on them / revamps at different times of the year:
Actual Cooking
Kids help, duties, cooking - this is a biggie for her
Manners at the table
Organization
Her big thing is creating a kitchen and "systems" so that her children can do as much of the kitchen work as possible. Everything is centered around that. Of course, this takes a lot of planning, organization, etc. But, I've found it interesting to think of my kitchen this way. My girls are still pretty young, but it's something that's in the back of my mind for future use. Our mothers probably never thought of their kitchens this way, b/c we (most of us anyway) were away at school all day. But for homeschoolers, the focus has to shift a bit (if not A LOT!).
..just a thought / interesting way of looking at things.
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Suzanne in ID
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Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
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SuzanneG
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For the little ones (ages 3-7)?? learning manners......my girls LOVE the Miss Shirley Finishing School
It's quite cheesy, but my daughters LOVE watching this silly thing over and over again! We check it out at the library. It has helped them to be excited about table manners and just general "awareness". There ARE boys in the video, but I don't know how BOYS would react to this kind of video. I only know girls About 6 months ago, we had a "white tablecloth fancy Miss Shirley dinner" where the girls (and us, of course ) did everything "just like in the video." It made it kind of fun!
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Suzanne in ID
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Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
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Angel
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SuzanneG wrote:
Her big thing is creating a kitchen and "systems" so that her children can do as much of the kitchen work as possible. Everything is centered around that. Of course, this takes a lot of planning, organization, etc. But, I've found it interesting to think of my kitchen this way. My girls are still pretty young, but it's something that's in the back of my mind for future use. Our mothers probably never thought of their kitchens this way, b/c we (most of us anyway) were away at school all day. But for homeschoolers, the focus has to shift a bit (if not A LOT!).
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I know my mother didn't think of her kitchen this way, but it makes a lot of sense to break it down like that in my house. My mother is also a naturally very organized person, and I am not, but I think that my mother always assumed that my 2 sisters and I would just "know" more about how to run a house than she actually taught us. We had chores, and by the time I was 15 or 16 I was responsible for cooking dinner for the family every night (my mother had a full-time job with a long commute), but I never really learned much about how to make a big, overarching PLAN for cleaning, cooking, shopping, teaching manners, etc. And now that I have more children, closer together than my mother had, I find that many of the ways we did things growing up just won't work in my house now. I'm too outnumbered!
One of the things I have started thinking about lately is getting my older two (ages 10 and 7) more into food preparation, especially since I'm due in September. I'd like to take this spring and summer to teach them how to use the stove safely, how to make simple dishes, how to peel and cut vegetables -- that kind of thing. My 7 yo dd definitely wants to learn (I'm not as sure about my 10 yo son, but I think that males ought to have kitchen skills, too), and I think it would only be helpful to everyone involved. So I went ahead and ordered that book that Jennifer suggested . I think my dd will enjoy it, but I'm beginning to think that in the fall, with 4 little ones age 4 and under, having two big kids who can help with meals will be SUCH a blessing. Not to mention that they need to know how anyway! And as I was looking through the table of contents, it occurred to me how much homemaking *I* had never learned.
--Angela
Three Plus Two
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doris
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| Posted: March 29 2007 at 4:21pm | IP Logged
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Jess wrote:
| I have a question about table manners. We have never made our kids stay at the table until everyone is done, but I have been thinking of changing that. We do make them ask to be excused. So my question is whether you sit down with them for all 3 meals. I have a 3 week old who nurses practically constantly so sitting with them for all 3 meals is very difficult. I do sit with them at dinner (dh is deployed), but for the rest of the meals I feel good to just get the meal fixed LOL. I don't usually eat breakfast and lunch when they do. So if you don't sit with them for every meal, do you still make them wait until everyone is done? Or do you just do that at dinner? I have a couple that wolf their food down and a couple that take forever to finish. |
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Ours do have to stay at the table until everyone has finished -- unless there are extenuating circumstances (ie someone got up late, someone had a long bathroom break in the middle of the meal, etc). I do sit and eat with them at every meal. If I'm eating supper later with dh, I still sit with them and have a cup of tea.
If someone finishes before everyone else, I try to keep them happy with a game of I Spy or something like that. Or I'll be reading everyone a book.
When I was nursing I just used to sit and nurse at the table while the others ate. Obviously it depends on whether you've got a suitable chair -- but maybe you could change that?
I do find that having everyone sit until everyone's finished does help everyone have respect for everyone else and also means that I'm not left with the mammoth task of getting everyone back in again to help tidy up. It also feels more respectful to me and the time I've taken to prepare the meal.
Anyway, of course they also do fight, misbehave, call each other names from time to time -- just in case anyone's thinking I'm being a show-off!
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Home educating in London, UK with dd (2000) ds (2002), dd (2004), ds (2008) and dd (2011).
Frabjous Days
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: March 29 2007 at 8:50pm | IP Logged
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I just wanted to say that considering you have seven children and the oldest is only 12 (and did I see you have twin toddlers, too?)...I am thinking that these are still the ages where the broken record system still needs to be in place. Sticky chairs, endlessly dirty kitchen floors...I think this is all pretty normal. Longsuffering is the word that comes to mind.
I'm not saying that your house is supposed to be a disaster, mind you (and mine isn't...honest! ), but kids just don't really *care* about such stuff until they are responsible for it, and even then, its a long time coming. They don't 'see' the mess the way that we do.
I don't believe in setting low standards. But I do believe in choosing my battles, so I haven't made this a #1 issue in the house. I spot clean the cabinet fronts regularly and wash them down every 8 weeks or so, I'm vicious about a clean kitchen every night, and I do not have cluttered counters because the dirty dishes combined with trinkets is enough to overwhelm me. I do resort to paper plates and all cold meals when life gets nuts. It helps. Baby locks, definitely. And I often have the older kids watch the youngers for 20 minutes so that I can do a good job sweeping up the floor at the end of the day.
I don't use any formal programs because...well...even if they do work, I don't imagine it will stick in the long run. I figure if I keep reminding them, eventually, they will get annoyed at being reminded and start remembering. My dd 10 went into rebellion a year ago and told me, "Mom, I don't want to act like a lady!" She reminded me of Laura Ingalls complaining about her perfect sister Mary. But a year later, she is more interested in wanting to be like me and I've noticed that she is much more careful than she used to be. Now if I could only get my oldest ds to hold his head up instead bending way down close to the plate in order to shovel the food in faster... 
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and  due 9/10
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Taming the Kitchen Monster
