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Angel
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| Posted: Feb 17 2009 at 1:41pm | IP Logged
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I'm going to have a 7th grader as of July 1, and I'm starting some of my planning now. I'm also reading up on high school. What I don't have a handle on is what makes a class a "junior high" class and what makes it worth high school credit? I'm looking at 7th grade earth science texts at Kolbe, for instance, and then I'm looking at hs level physical science, and the physical science text includes earth science, so why would I want to do earth science in 7th grade and then basically over again in some fashion in 8th grade the way Kolbe recommends?
Can anyone tell me what you require from your 7th and/or 8th graders as opposed to your high schoolers? (Not just in science, although I must confess that science is where the division gets murkiest for me.)
Thanks!
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Angela
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Barbara C.
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| Posted: Feb 17 2009 at 10:32pm | IP Logged
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Most of the high school homeschool books I've read recommend that you start keeping track of everything to make a transcript starting in 8th grade, since most homeschoolers tend to be ahead of the game.
I'm still a ways from the high school point yet, but most scope and sequence when it comes to things like science is pretty arbitrary. It's easier to distinguish the difference between junior high and high school level in something like math. I would say that unless your state has specific guidelines it probably comes down more to what age you want to start calling high school, within reason of course. And perhaps what level the texts you are using are described as.
I'll be interested to hear the voice of experience.
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Barbara
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Angel
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| Posted: Feb 18 2009 at 6:53am | IP Logged
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I guess I'm just trying to find where the divide is between calling a course of study "seventh grade" and saying "this is for high school credit". Math, I think, is pretty straight forward: algebra I always gets high school credit, for instance.
But what if a child is capable of reading more advanced books in science (say). I'm not trying to rush my ds into high school level stuff, but if he's beyond the usual offerings for his grade level... does a subject become hs level because it requires more papers, more projects, etc.? Or if it fills up 120-180 hours?
Sigh. I'm having a hard time articulating the thing I'm having a hard time grasping. Maybe it's just that I want some nonexistent objective rule of thumb when it comes to measuring grade level. 
But I am feeling a bit lost at this age... thinking that I ought to require more work of a 7th/8th grader than a 6th grader, but how much? And where does work cross the line into hs credit?
Oh, the first one always gets to be the guinea pig...
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Angela
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Mackfam
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| Posted: Feb 18 2009 at 7:30am | IP Logged
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Angela -
Can you meet with your local coordinator? Or call them? I'm spoiled as we umbrella with a small Catholic group and the administrator is a very good friend and so helpful. I'm pretty sure I've heard you say the New York has *some* requirements...
Anyway, this is how it was explained to me (and keep in mind that these are based on Alabama graduation requirements)
I have a sheet of paper that lists Alabama High School Graduation Requirements. It says:
Quote:
| The Alabama courses of study shall be followed in determining minimum required content in each discipline... |
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It lists each course heading:
English Language Arts
Mathematics
Science
Social Studies
Physical Education
Health Education
Arts Education
Computer Applications
Foreign Language
Electives
Then, under each heading the wording " 'X' credits to include the equivalent of:" ... and it lists the courses. My administrator offers the finer details of this that fits our family, so I'm hoping you have one that can help you navigate these waters specific to your state.
**Algebra I counts as college credit - there is no requirement on how long it takes to complete the course, so you may choose to start now and move at an unpressured pace - whatever your son's pace is - we're going very, very slow, but it's working nicely.
**Science - Four credits to include the equivalent of:
Biology
A physical science
Science electives
(I am interpreting that in this way - if a high school science text is used and the course work is completed well, the child has earned high school credit in that course. We don't use science texts here. I'm not limiting myself to that position, but I'm not ruling out the possibility of completing a high school level science course in the same way we treat science now...I'm researching as well right now)
I don't think this answers any of your questions really, but maybe if you know state requirements, Angela, you'll know what type coursework is required. I think if your son completes a high school level science text in 7th grade, and you keep your records on everything, documenting all high school work well, it should probably count as high school credit on a transcript.
My caveat is that I'm not there either, just finding my way like you right now. I have one child taking a high school level course in 7th grade right now. So, I'd like to hear more as well.
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Jen Mackintosh
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Angel
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| Posted: Feb 20 2009 at 7:34am | IP Logged
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No, we don't have any local homeschooling experts/liasons around here... at least, none that I'm aware of. The one time I called the school district with a question, they knew absolutely nothing about what the law actually said. We tend to try to lie low around here.
NY law requires 108 hours per "unit", in both junior high and high school. "According to my research" (channeling Dorothy Ann from Magic School Bus here), most states/other homeschoolers require more: 120 hours is a Carnegie credit, but other states require "180 50 minute hours" and CHC's High School of Your Dreams counts 180 clock hours as one credit. So following NY's homeschooling laws may keep me out of hot water legally, but it doesn't seem like they jive with what most colleges expect out of a high school credit (I'm theorizing!)
More than the hours, though, I'm wondering how to fill them up. My ds zings through textbooks. I imagine that when he hits algebra he'll slow down a bit, but right now, if a Saxon lesson takes more than 30 minutes for him to complete, he's convinced that he's being oppressed by the textbook publisher.
The feeling I get when I look at a lot of 7th grade curriculum is that nobody else knows what to do with this age either. Does anyone else see that? My dd is fond of pointing out to me that when Eli Whitney entered Harvard in his 20's, most of his fellow freshmen were about 15. If in the past most kids went to college at 15, does that mean that age 12 (our 7th grade) was somewhat analogous to high school?
I took a leap the other day when I took a really good look at the book on prehistoric mammals my ds has been reading. It would be completely acceptable for hs credit. It's written for interested amateur adults. So I asked him if he'd like to do a paleontology "course". He jumped on it. After scouting around the web and hunting through my shelves, I think that what he's capable of reading and doing really is hs level (in this particular subject), so I'm pulling together a list of books, projects, writing topics, etc. He knows the hour goal, but considering that he's in the 7th grade and this is an elective science, I'm treating this as an experiment. If it takes him 2 years to rack up 120 hours instead of just 1, then that's ok. If he decides after a while that it's too hard, no harm done.
I'll probably post curriculum and progress to my blog in some fashion. 
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Angela
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MarilynW
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| Posted: Feb 20 2009 at 7:36am | IP Logged
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Angela - on the high school thread I posted a link to a sampler of a Unit Study for Jr High/High boys- it looks like it has some interesting ideas.
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Tonya
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| Posted: Feb 20 2009 at 1:28pm | IP Logged
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Angela,
My son was taking high school level classes in junior high. We just continued taking more difficult classes when he was in high school. For instance, he took biology in junior high but will take AP Biology next year. In math, we just kept going at the pace that he was comfortable with. He has taken two years of calculus and now he is taking statistics. As your child gets older you can send him to college early (we did not like this option!), offer him AP classes, or let him take (and plan) classes that interest him.
Colleges will want to see so many years of science, math, English, and social studies. I think class content is probably more important than the number of hours spent on a class. You can look at any college website that you are interested in and find out what they are looking for. Just keep good records and you should be set. One of the wonderful things about homeschooling is that your child can go at the pace that is perfect for him or her. Honestly, many colleges put more stock in SAT or ACT tests than anything else. They will want a transcript also. When my daughter applied to 5 different colleges, only one requested more information than a transcript and test scores. She was accepted to all 5 colleges and received scholarships at 4 of them.
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Lisa R
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| Posted: Feb 20 2009 at 3:48pm | IP Logged
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Tonya,
Was this a transcript you made up? Just curious as my son enters 9th grade next year! 
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Lisa, married to my best friend, Ray and loving my blessings Joshua (17)and Jacob(15), Hannah(7) and Rachel (5)!Holy Family Academy
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Angel
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| Posted: Feb 21 2009 at 1:56pm | IP Logged
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Tonya wrote:
Angela,
My son was taking high school level classes in junior high. We just continued taking more difficult classes when he was in high school. For instance, he took biology in junior high but will take AP Biology next year. In math, we just kept going at the pace that he was comfortable with. He has taken two years of calculus and now he is taking statistics. As your child gets older you can send him to college early (we did not like this option!), offer him AP classes, or let him take (and plan) classes that interest him.
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Thank you, Tonya! My ds is on the immature side -- for various reasons -- so we have no plans to send him to college early either. I am wondering, though... did you count the biology from junior high as a high school level biology course on a transcript, or - not?
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Angela
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Three Plus Two
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Tonya
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| Posted: Feb 21 2009 at 3:40pm | IP Logged
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Lisa,
I made up my own transcript following several templates that I found online. We tried to make it look as professional as possible (printed on very nice paper). I would recommend keeping very good records, also. We were able to provide additional information such as a reading list and scope and sequences for the one college that asked for it.
Angela,
It gets a little tricky counting classes that students take in junior high because many of the colleges (especially the bigger ones) want to see only the work you did in high school. My son did Apologia biology in 8th grade so it was definitely high school level but some schools might not count it for high school. There are many more advanced classes available so obtaining more science credits is pretty easy. You might get into trouble in your son took biology and physical science in junior high and then didn't take any higher science courses. My son has always enjoyed the challenge of science and math so homeschooling has allowed him to not have to follow a set curriculum.
I think that dealing with the big state schools is a little more difficult for homeschoolers (although not impossible). The smaller schools seem to be more willing to look at the students as individuals.
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Angel
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| Posted: Feb 21 2009 at 4:04pm | IP Logged
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Tonya wrote:
Angela,
It gets a little tricky counting classes that students take in junior high because many of the colleges (especially the bigger ones) want to see only the work you did in high school. My son did Apologia biology in 8th grade so it was definitely high school level but some schools might not count it for high school. There are many more advanced classes available so obtaining more science credits is pretty easy. You might get into trouble in your son took biology and physical science in junior high and then didn't take any higher science courses. My son has always enjoyed the challenge of science and math so homeschooling has allowed him to not have to follow a set curriculum.
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That's what I'm worried about: that anything done in 7th grade would be totally discounted, even if it's high school work. When I was a 7th grader, I participated in a talent search program for gifted students and ended up taking a semester of college level German over the summer, which my parents DID negotiate with my high school to include on my transcript as 1 foreign language credit. BUT that was all "official" and not something I did in the dining room at home. (Even if something I did in my dining room would have been so much more in depth than what I got out of my high school classes!!!)
For the record, I'm not really looking at all or even most of 7th/8th grade "counting" for credit. Mostly I think this is a way for my ds to take *extra* sciences instead of being locked into the biology, chemistry, physics sequence alone. I mean, we've got paleontology, anatomy, astronomy, geology... 
But, actually, if he didn't seem ready to make the jump in this particular area -- if he didn't really want or need the challenge or couldn't handle it -- I wouldn't push it. I'm just trying to figure this out because it seems to be the situation we're in... regardless of whether or not I'd like to put it off. 
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Angela
Mom to 9, 7 boys and 2 girls
Three Plus Two
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4Real Forums : High School Years and Beyond
Topic: work expectations for 7th/8th vs hs?
