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Cay Gibson
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| Posted: May 29 2008 at 11:17am | IP Logged
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Can I play devil's advocate here? While reading this thread I felt a "slight" need to justify our college decision. Not really.  I know I don't have to "justify" any decision my dh and I make but my wheels were churning and, as usual, I felt the need to write out my thought process.
I'm aware this is not everyone's way of thinking, regarding Catholic colleges vs. state colleges. It's completely my own so I don't want anyone's feelings hurt or sensitized.
I'd really like to hear what "everyone's" thoughts are and what your decision making process is in choosing Catholic college over state college (or the other way around).
I suspect finances plays a big part. Or is it a family tradition to attend a certain college? What does your decision making plan look like?
Ours is realitively basic. We live less than 30 minutes from a local state college. I graduated from that college. Cost of living. That pretty much sealed it for us.
For us a college degree is a college degree. It's what my children do with it after they get it that counts. Hard work. Perserverance. Determination. Faithfulness. Honesty.
I'm of the thinking that, in reality, even if we send our children to a "good" Catholic school (and even hsing them) there is no guarantee that our children will lead a virtuous life. I think the same is true with Catholic colleges. There is no assurance. None. So I have no qualms about letting my children go to area state colleges.
The fact, the reality, is that we cannot afford to let ours move away. If any of them get a full-scholarship that will pay for dorm, food, etc. then they could. But, for us to help them, we have told them they need to stay close to home.
Kayleigh might transfer after the first year...still a state college. The only way she can do so is to reapply for scholarships to that college and hope she gets a big one. Yes, she has TOPS and scored high enough on the ACT to get extra monies from it so the scholarships she received are over and beyond. But they hardly pay for her to "live" away from home.
Life is expensive. 
Anyway, my hope is constantly for God's mercy on my children. Do I sound too self-assured? I hope I'm being trustful. DH and I went to state colleges and I found the two things that carried me through and sealed my faith were (1)coming from a trusting Catholic home that set the example and (2)getting married and having children.
My prayers are constantly for God's mercy...no matter where my children go in life...Catholic college or state college.
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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Willa
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I wouldn't worry about it, Cay! I went to a state univ -- so did DH -- that was where we met. God is everywhere 
My oldest wanted to go to Catholic college. He felt strongly that he wanted to continue the Catholic formation he had been getting in the homeschool.
Our income put us well below the poverty line, but we were still OK. He got state grants, a loan, worked summers and did work-study at the college.
Daughter wants to go there, too. We will do our best to send her there. Second and fourth children may follow a different pattern. Fourth child is going to public high school to play football (there are no Catholic schools within 60 miles and anyway, we could not afford it) and then hopes to get a sports scholarship to go to college (realistically, most likely wouldn't be a Catholic one).
I think you look at your family situation, your child, and a bunch of other things. You pray for direction.
I am not all that worried about children losing faith in secular college. I mean, obviously I *worry* in that I pray almost every day that my children will keep their faith through life, whatever they do. But my main reasons for valuing Catholic college are positive -- formative. I think that what Pope Pius said about the importance of an "education permeated with Christian piety" applies to the post-secondary levels too.
So while I think secular education can be OK because education itself is worthwhile, I do not think it is complete. I would try to communicate to my children who might go to state univ that they have a responsibility to complete and Catholicize their education. They would be adults so it would be possible -- DH and I basically did through the years. We continued to educate ourselves in a Catholic atmosphere through the years since we graduated and married.
Rambling on and on, sorry!
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Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
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crusermom
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This is a topic I am very interested in. I think, ideally, you look at each child as an individual. Some would be completely overwhelmed attending a huge state university. Others would thrive there. Some would do fine living at home. Some might really do better with the away from home experience.
Then, you need to look at the reality of things. We make too much to get enough financial aid, yet don't have enough to pay for college. Yes, the old middle class situation. So, sometimes you have to do the best you can do with what you have.
I always thought I wanted my children to go to a great Catholic college. Now, with the reality of the tuition bills coming in the mail for our oldest, we are needing to rethink. We just moved to Tx recently, but my dh and ds went to visit the state school here. Would you believe they had all day adoration at the Catholic center and there were students in front of the Blessed Sacrament! I went to a Catholic (in name) college and never saw such a thing.
I think graduating from college with as little as debt as possible is very important. We will really encourage this and will deal with each child on a case by case basis. Some will be able to get more money through scholarships. Some will have special needs. I certainly would not give one red cent to them to attend a college that had what I consider an "immoral" atmosphere on campus - coed rooms, etc.
Also, as I am on this journey, I reserve the right to keep learning and developing a game plan. I am looking forward to all your thoughts!
Mary
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Mary
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CrunchyMom
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Dh and I both went where the scholarship money was, and we don't regret it. We graduated with very little debt. Dh did go to a Catholic school, but he always jokes that he went to a Jesuit college and managed to come out Catholic. I went to a state school and managed to become Catholic, lol.
I do agree with Willa, but for me, I have always known that I wanted to be a mom. Now, I never knew when or if that opportunity would be given me, but I was always aware when considering the cost of school or the possibility of graduated school that I wasn't truly interested in a career to help pay it off beyond something to do until I got married and had kids.
So, honestly, while I think that a quality education is important for all, I think I might frame the pros and cons a bit differently for a son who is more likely to be the breadwinner for his family than a daughter whose heart is in the home. I am grateful that my student loans aren't a burden as I stay at home with my children.
I think that a couple of years of community college before attending the Catholic college of choice is a decent compromise; though, I think that most of the core is where a real difference can be found in the quality of the Catholic or strong liberal arts school.
I think that I might also research by subject interest. There are some great Catholic professors at non-Catholic schools, and if you can find a "mentor" to guide you through the system, I think you can gain a very Catholic education at a secular college.
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Lindsay
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: May 29 2008 at 2:14pm | IP Logged
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Cay Gibson wrote:
| Ours is relatively basic. We live less than 30 minutes from a local state college. I graduated from that college. Cost of living. That pretty much sealed it for us. |
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Cay, to this I would I add only a couple of things and sum up our situation: my husband was the alum in our case and he had spent several years on staff at the athletic department. There were no Catholic colleges of the caliber he wanted with Division 1 soccer teams. But the biggest draw was the Campus Ministry. We have been blessed to see Michael's faith grow in college. He has been supported both spiritually and academically by a very gifted priest. He is active in CCM programs tailored to him (like an athlete's Bible study). When he heard something about Catholicism in a classroom that didn't sound quite right, he called the campus ministry. The priest there told him the "rest of the story" and then connected him with the diocesan historian who helped him research a response to the professor. The professor read the response, praised Michael for correcting him and sent the paper and his apology to the entire class. It was an affirming experience for all of us 
I respect the criteria other families have for selecting a college.And of course, every family's situation is just a little different. This is what works best for this child and our family.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Mary G
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I went to a Catholic college (Gonzaga) while dh went to a secular college (LSU) -- but wasn't a Catholic then. However, Gonzaga was having so many issues with remaining Catholic that I almost lost my faith there and was NOT a good Catholic; in many ways, Louisiana State University is more Catholic than Gonzaga in that so many of their students are Catholic, active and good.
I've had this discussin with others before and one guy (another Gonzaga grad who than went on to Franciscan for a masters) said that he thinks a secular school with a great Newmann Center or FOCUS or whatever is WAY better than a "Catholic" school in name only. Less scandal and the kids have to own their faith. My neice, a rising senior at Univ of Northern Colorado has been extremely active in FOCUS and kept her faith strongly. A friend graduated from Regis University this spring (a Jesuit school that is technically, but not necessarily really Catholic) said that the keynote address at the Graduation was given by a Jesuit who blasted the Pope and papal decisions and lack of understanding of real life   !
Another aspect, from my viewpoint, is that my dh and I expect our children to pay their way thru college so whatever college they choose (whether for monetary, social or academic reasons) is THEIR choice. We will of course assist in the decision process but the bottom-line is that they're 18 and adults and need to own their education ...
But then we're a bit non-conformists in most of what we do! 
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Elizabeth
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Just another little plug for FOCUS: when Mike and I were active at GMU in the campus ministry, it was a great program. Mike was working at the university and we had a whole lot of involvement in campus ministry as young, newly-graduated adults. It was so much better than the campus ministry at UVa, where I'd graduated that I really mourned for what I'd missed. Now, that program at GMU is a FOCUS program and it's even better. It's truly a special place of grace. Of course, not every secular college has FOCUS, but it's something to keep in mind when looking at colleges and when looking for ministries to support.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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LisaR
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three cheers for FOCUS!!! I also want to put in a plug for the University of IL: (a Big 10 school)
they JUST completed building the largest Newman Center facility in the US. It has I think 12 at least FOCUS ministers, as well as numerous Priests, Sisters, and layworkers. Multiple options for daily Mass- their OWN Dorms and Cafeteria, and best of all, a NEW degree being offered in Catholic Studies.
also, dh and I learned so much by attending Franciscan University for undergrad and grad degrees. We were able to really "soak up" an authentic Catholic culture 24/7, and I think about it still to this day - not a week goes by without Tim or I mentioning or thinking about how grateful we are for the wonderful families we learned so much from, and just the "life skills",kwim??
I was surrounded by all of these cool, LARGE! families connected to the University in some way. most homeschooled, most breastfed, most (well, I know all) used NFP or were 100% open all the time.
there was no dividing line between good faculty and bad, etc.
yet it was large enough to offer some diversity and also many opportunities.
We are still paying off student loan debt, but we would not trade what we gained there for a million dollars.
I like that Steubenville, Christendom, and others have bulked up their Athletics in recent years, joining onto conferences, etc.
I am also fascinated with schools like Benedictine, Belmont Abbey, etc which seem to also be authentically Catholic, and yet offer division football, wrestling, motorsports!! degrees, and other opportunities which might appeal more to men.
I had heard in the past some of the authentic Catholic colleges were struggling to keep the proper male/female ratio, and I believe it!
Academics , Sports, are not number one for us, but having opportunities to grow as a whole person within the framework of the Catholic Faith is.
if ds does not go to a Catholic College, we would hope that he might choose one which has a vibrant Catholic ministry.
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Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
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many little saints in heaven!
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Maria B.
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Willa wrote:
| So while I think secular education can be OK because education itself is worthwhile, I do not think it is complete. I would try to communicate to my children who might go to state univ that they have a responsibility to complete and Catholicize their education. |
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I am curious about this. Those of you who have children in secular colleges, how have they continued their formation? Not all schools have FOCUS or great Catholic campus ministries.
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Maria in VA
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MaryM
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Since it doesn't seem to be linked yet in this thread, here is the list of colleges that currently have FOCUS.
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Mary M. in Denver
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pipandpuddy
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| Posted: May 30 2008 at 12:18am | IP Logged
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Maria,
My two older children live at home and attend local state colleges. They are not involved in any campus activities. They just attend classes, work, and come home. One of the colleges has no Catholic ministry; the other school's ministry is basically heretical. They attend Sunday mass with our family, and we read/discuss Catholic issues together. Because they live at home, they are around quite a bit, so at times, it seems that nothing has changed much from when they were home educated, which is really nice. Karen
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Jen L.
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I lived at home for my undergrad degree. I think that living at home is another great option.
In fact, for many I think it is the best option. My parents would agree -- they tried sending away a couple of us. Then, based on not great (to put it mildly) experiences at what they thought was a "good Catholic college" and a state college, they STRONGLY encouraged the second set of us to stay home and go to George Mason. (We weren't ruled with an iron fist nor sheltered inappropriately - they still let us grow up )
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dh Klete,ds (8/95),dd (12/97), dd (11/00), and ^2^ in heaven
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StephanieA
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Our two oldest go/will go to the local state university in our town where dh and I graduated. The Newman Center there is less than stellar and neither participate. We know quite a few professors there (or of them) since dh's dad and sister taught at the university for many years also. Oldest boy lives at home, but the second won full scholarship which includes room and board. I hope he hates dorm life
Seriously though, he knows his room is open and he is solid in his faith and convictions, whereas the oldest son is more swayable.
That said, the oldest will be a college senior in the fall, but won't graduate until next December. Dh and I have contemplated sending him 1 semester to a Catholic college after his graduation from SEMO on our dime...umm...I mean dollarsssss.
We don't contribute financially to college because we simply can't afford to, but we may consider some sacrifices to get him a semester to a particular Catholic college just to continue his Catholic studies and socialize with young Catholic men and women.
I do see a HUGE need for a social network of solid Catholic kids who attend pagan universities ,
especially as they enter the dating years.
I think my son would make a great father and husband, BUT he very well might buckle under the influence of the wrong girl. He is very much a pleaser person like his father.
I know I am thinking ahead, but this is a regret of mine....that the secular college offers so little in good, social comraderie.
Blessings,
Stephanie
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LisaR
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check this out!
Newman Foundation
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Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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Roma
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Florida State is supposed to have an excellent Catholic Student Union.
Florida State Catholic
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4Real Forums : High School Years and Beyond
Topic: Catholic Colleges vs. State Colleges
