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Elizabeth
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What does religious education look like in your house? For three years now, my children have attended a Catechesis of the Good Shepherd program at our parish. Particularly in the preschool years, this was a very good experience. But, as they've gotten older, I've noticed that we are facing some of the same problems that would keep me from sending them to school: premature boy/girl silliness (at 8  ), disrespect towards the teacher and irreverence towards the place. To this, add the logistical nightmare of children on all different levels needing classes at different times. I'm really re-thinking the whole thing. This year, there will be a Level 3 atrium for 9-12 year olds. I think I might pass.
We've always supplemented CGS with lots of at home projects and reading. If I pull them out, I will work to adding some of their favorite works at the parish atrium to our at-home atrium. I'd love to be able to have a whole guide to the CGS program but it's kept under some pretty tight wraps. While I like Moira Farrell's guide, it doesn't resemble the program I know very much.
This problem seems to me the essence of why we chose to educate at home. You can have an absolutely wonderful curriculum and all the material resources necessary to implement it and you can have a well-trained, loving teacher but if you add children who have been socialized according to the norms of the popular culture to the mix, you have a recipe for disaster!
And then, when those children are present at Mass on Sundays and at parish functions, the ripples continue. I'm beginning to see how home-schooling protestants conceived the notion of home church!
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Kelly
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Does anyone use that catechism.com (mentioned elsewhere on the board) for RE at home?
I'm interested to hear people's response to Elizabeth's query, too.
Kelly in FL
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JennGM
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Elizabeth wrote:
| What does religious education look like in your house? For three years now, my children have attended a Catechesis of the Good Shepherd program at our parish. Particularly in the preschool years, this was a very good experience. But, as they've gotten older, I've noticed that we are facing some of the same problems that would keep me from sending them to school: premature boy/girl silliness (at 8 ), disrespect towards the teacher and irreverence towards the place. |
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I hope you don't mind me jumping into this thread. I'm not at the point of catechizing at home, so I can't answer that part, but this question is echoing some of my own. I like what I see in the preschool CGS, and am considering that, even if we homeschool.
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| We've always supplemented CGS with lots of at home projects and reading. If I pull them out, I will work to adding some of their favorite works at the parish atrium to our at-home atrium. |
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I'm glad to see you use the word "supplemented", because that's the approach I plan on taking with the CGS. I love so many aspects, but I can't see using it as the primary or sole religious education in the home.
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| I'd love to be able to have a whole guide to the CGS program but it's kept under some pretty tight wraps. While I like Moira Farrell's guide, it doesn't resemble the program I know very much. |
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Really? In what way? I've been getting feedback from others and this is the first negative I've heard!
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This problem seems to me the essence of why we chose to educate at home. You can have an absolutely wonderful curriculum and all the material resources necessary to implement it and you can have a well-trained, loving teacher but if you add children who have been socialized according to the norms of the popular culture to the mix, you have a recipe for disaster!
And then, when those children are present at Mass on Sundays and at parish functions, the ripples continue. I'm beginning to see how home-schooling protestants conceived the notion of home church! |
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This is what my dh and I have been having such deep conversations about the future of our son's schooling. I told him the schools, the teacher, the curriculum could be AWESOME, but the bottom line is the mixture and socilization of kids in the classrooom...even from great families...robs my child of his innocence sooner.
But I don't want the attitude that I'm running away from society, or creating a bubble for my son. How can show that this choice to educate at home is a positive choice? I can't "protect" him forever...
And, Elizabeth, since your children have been doing sports at young ages, is this type of social interaction different? Do you find less "silliness" on the sports team? Do you think this behavior in the CGS classroom might be because of the mixture of boys and girls?
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Elizabeth
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jenngm67 wrote:
And, Elizabeth, since your children have been doing sports at young ages, is this type of social interaction different? Do you find less "silliness" on the sports team? Do you think this behavior in the CGS classroom might be because of the mixture of boys and girls? |
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No time for the other ?s right now but I can answer this one quickly. My kids are serious athletes. They're there to practice, to train hard. There's not nonsense. There's also no one there of the opposite gender. The same holds true for my duaghter and dance--that an she goes to a very overtly Christian studio run by a serious Cahtolic who puts up with no nonsense.
Oh, and the Moira Farrell thing isn't a negative--what's there is good; it's just not the CGS I know and so love. I like what Moira has but I'd be sad to miss the rest. And maybe it's in the volume I don't have. Unfortunately, I can't afford to find out.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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teachingmom
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I'm changing our religion plans fairly drastically next year. We've used Image of God in the past for preschool and kindergarten, Faith and Life for a few years, and most recently, Seton's religion workbooks. We try to live the liturgical year through appropriate activities, and discuss the Sunday readings, moral topics, and Catholic Church current events as they come up. But I'm not happy with what we've been doing academically religion-wise. And I worry that my girls are not growing spiritually as much as they could.
Here is the academic plan for religion for next year:
I'll be signing up for catechismclass.com and plan for the girls to use that 1-2 days each week. They will use Faith and Life one day each week. And the older two (possibly 3) will read a Vision book on the other days. If I could find a good Catholic devotional for kids, I'd use that instead for one day.
I'm trying mix it up a bit for interest. Faith and Life covers the basics, but doesn't have enough information to warrant using it for 5 days each week. I really want to figure out how to help the girls "own" their faith more. I am hoping that the Vision Books will provide heroic examples of faith that will help to ignite a fire.
If anyone has ideas (for use in the home and family) for helping children to develop a living prayer life of their own, I'd love to hear them.
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Robin
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teachingmom wrote:
Here is the academic plan for religion for next year:
I'll be signing up for catechismclass.com and plan for the girls to use that 1-2 days each week.
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My ds did catechismclass.com this year as a supplement to our religion and from what I saw (I didn't check out the lessons every week) I think you would need to do it the whole 5 days to get the most out of it. The teacher starts with a concept and goes deeper and deeper into it each day and on Friday there's a little quiz to take at the end of class. We didn't have a problem doing it every day since ds did it all on his own and he seemed to enjoy it. Each day it took him from 10-15 minutes to read the whole lesson and do the activity.
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Robin Dupre
"If we become what God intended for us to become, we will set the world on fire." ~ St. Catherine of Siena
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alicegunther
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Robin wrote:
| My ds did catechismclass.com this year as a supplement to our religion and from what I saw (I didn't check out the lessons every week) I think you would need to do it the whole 5 days to get the most out of it. The teacher starts with a concept and goes deeper and deeper into it each day and on Friday there's a little quiz to take at the end of class. We didn't have a problem doing it every day since ds did it all on his own and he seemed to enjoy it. Each day it took him from 10-15 minutes to read the whole lesson and do the activity. |
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Yes, Robin, I think you are right about the five days. Still, it does not take long to complete a lesson, and the children work independently, so it isn't difficult to manage. (That being said, we stopped doing our Catechism Class.com lessons when we began our Easter Vigil notebooks, and haven't resumed since. This thread is reminding me to get back in the swing of things though.) They also enjoy having permission to go on the computer in the middle of the day.
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Elizabeth
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More on Moira Farrell's plans. I want to be very clear: her plans are good. In our CGS sacramental preparation, the children spend a great deal of time in retreatthe week before First Reconciliation and First Communion. There, they are presented five meditations. There is The True Vine,The Lost Sheep, The Lost Coin, The Forgiving Father,and the Centurion's Servant. I found The True Vine in Moira's plans, but not the others. It's possible they are integrated with something else. There is no index or table of contents and I might have missed them. I found these meditations in our parish atrium to be excellent sacramental prep. Moira does have the Eucharistic Presence and The Good Shepherd and that is by far my favorite presentation. She also has really good liturgical year plans and a really good presentation of the Mass.
I love Montessori. In a perfect world, we could all afford Montessori materials and we all would have had Montessori training before we had children. But the world isn't perfect and making materials is often more time consuming than mothers can bear.By the time we know we want to do it, we have so many little ones that we just don't have time. And training is often unavailable or prohibitively expensive. MOira makes CGS accessible and I'm really grateful to her. I am also grateful to the priest who had a vsion for the atrium I have in our parish. I'm grateful to the women who have given countless hours to training. On the face of it, the parish atrium looks perfect. The problem is that we take publicly educated children whose parents don't necessarily practice the faith at home and put them in the environment for two hours a week. It's just not enough time to properly train them Montessori-style. So...we're back to the same old questions...
I don't really see this problem with the preschool program so much; they haven't been indoctrinated by the government schools yet. They are more innocent, more obedient and more inherently ordered to the sacred.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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JennGM
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Thanks, Elizabeth, for elaborating on this. I'm searching intensely on what to do with my son -- cost and time effective, but best for his education. I said to you before I'd love to tap your brain for Montessori ideas. Everything is overwhelming to me, and although I know so much can be good for him, if I have to pick and choose due to time constraints or money, WHERE do start and end?
Did you see that the CGS training is being offered this summer at St. Catherine's? My sister sends her son to that school and just LOVES it, but he's Kindergarten right now. But the training is expensive....$1000 for accreditation, $850 for auditing. Dh thought it too much. So Moira's was going to be the next best thing...so thanks for the input!
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guitarnan
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Well, I guess we do things yet another way. We have done RE at home, primarily. The first year we homeschooled I also taught RE, so I signed dd (then K) up for RE so she would have somewhere to be while I taught. It worked out fine but didn't benefit my family in any major way. We've always used Faith and Life as our primary text (ds likes it); my daughter usually goes through 2 or 3 activity-type religion books as well, per year. She's very hands-on. This year we've used Elizabeth's great First Communion notebook suggestions, 2 sacramental prep books (from our parish) and an older Dinah Zike Old Testament activity book (we like it!).
Another thing we do is read lots and lots of Bible stories. This helps the children remember them. With my son, I try to help him learn to draw parallels between Old Testament stories and the life of Jesus. Next year (grade 8) I hope to add in some Bible history or Church history to his Faith and Life stuff. One thing I don't like about F&L is that the activity book is more of a rehash of the chapter; ds doesn't mind it, though, and it seems to help him remember the material.
Having said all that, we really do feel that religion isn't a class. It's life. So, we try to celebrate the seasons and feasts of the Church year at home and with our parish. Unfortunately, our tiny parish is struggling with all of this as well. (I went to a Whole Community Catechesis workshop this week...different topic...hopefully our parish will be improving a bit based on some things we learned there...)
Another area we are working on is service. Our parish always needs cleaning, mowing, etc. and we try to do our fair share. My son is shy and so he has done things like make food for the First Communion retreat instead of being an altar server. There's a way to go on this but we're trying.
I'm very interested to hear about all of this from you; I am looking for new ideas to use at home and in our parish. We only have about 20 kids in the whole parish who are old enough for RE classes; you can see our challenge!
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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teachingmom
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Robin wrote:
| My ds did catechismclass.com this year as a supplement to our religion and from what I saw (I didn't check out the lessons every week) I think you would need to do it the whole 5 days to get the most out of it. |
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Thanks so much for this information, Robin. That will definitely have an impact on my plans. I appreciate it.
Has anyone looked extensively enough at the online program to know if it is comprehensive enough to just do without another spine like Faith and Life?
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~Irene (Mom to 6 girls, ages 7-19)
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Elizabeth
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I think part of what appeals to me about the MOntessori/Cavaletti approach is that it's so multi-sensory. I feel like our faith is so rich in liturgy and that the "smells and bells" are so much a part of it all, that a liturgy based program that is hands-on only makes sense. For all the same reasons that an adult's worship and understanding is enhanced in a church that is set aside as a place for reverence and communion, so too, a child needs that place apart, or at least benefits from it. I know that "church" in a gym, with little atttention or even delibrate exclusion of the fullness of liturgy has much less of a spiritually satisfying effect on me. NOw, I've been to church in a gym or cafeteria or lecture hall where that reverence and atmosphere WAS in place. Those experiences are precious. It's not so much about the place as the atmosphere. Can that atmosphere be effected byt a book or online program? I worry that a book based program or a computer based program would be too "dry" (for lack of a better term); such a program could be theologically sound but not spiritually engaging. In much the same way, I've long abandoned a dry textbook for "teaching academics," preferring to engage hearts and so to inspire lifelong learners and children who CARE about the content and the process.
Our notebooks--sacrament notebooks, Easter notbooks, pope notebooks--were huge successes. They were multi-dimensional and personally engaging. Is it unreasonable to expect that we can design a program that will be this way, all the time?
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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teachingmom
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I don't have anywhere near as much experience with the atrium as some of you do. So far, two of my girls have spent a total of 5 years in the 3-5 yo once a week atrium at my parish. I don't have any experience of it at older ages. I love what the atrium experience has done for the spiritual life of my dd's who have participated. I am a big fan of that form of religious education in young children.
From my limited knowledge, I'm not convinced that it would be a comprehensive enough religious education for older children however. I was just pondering this. I was thinking that we often speak of humans as being made up of mind, body, and spirit. I think a good religious education would touch us in each of those areas.
I think of the liturgy (smells and bells), the atrium, and things like notebooking as affecting the body. Participating in the corporal works of mercy would also affect our faith in a bodily way.
Prayer experiences, including liturgy and sacraments, meditation, and other forms of personal and communal prayer (including atrium prayer experiences), would be the ways to touch the spirit.
But in my opinion, a more academic study of the faith is also necessary to touch the mind intellectually. That could be accomplished through a combination of the catechism, notebooking (such as described by Elizabeth), a good religion textbook, and/or an online program. Please don't get me wrong . . . I'm not saying that the intellectual study is more important than the other areas. If that intellectual study was the only faith formation we offered our children, their faith would most likely die out as our children grew older. But along with the other dimensions of religious education that touch the body and spirit, it would provide a solid base of knowledge upon which to rest a passionate love for Christ and His Church.
Hoping and praying that I am somehow helping to foster all this in my own children . . .
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~Irene (Mom to 6 girls, ages 7-19)
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alicegunther
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Elizabeth wrote:
| Our notebooks--sacrament notebooks, Easter notbooks, pope notebooks--were huge successes. They were multi-dimensional and personally engaging. Is it unreasonable to expect that we can design a program that will be this way, all the time? |
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Yes, our special projects really helped inspire not only the children, but me as well. It is too late to write more, but you've really given me something to think about.
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Love, Alice
mother of seven!
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Elizabeth
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The Level 3 atrium is an intensive Bible Study of God's plan for humanity, His plan of salvation from the Old Testament on.
I wrote to Moira to ask about the missing parables and she responded:
Thank you for your kind note. I know the parables are
very valuable to each level of catechesis, but I have
only done the 3-6 parables for the first album. They
are the Parables of the Kingdom (mustard seed, buried
treasure, the pearl of great price, etc.)The ones you
asked about belong to the 6-9 level, although I have
not heard of presenting the Centurion's Servant.
I haven't done any of the 6-9 parables yet (excepting
the True Vine, which I present along with the
commingling prayer. I included this one because my
focus for the 6-9 album is the Mass. I hope to make an
addition to is someday with the 6-9 parables, and a
few other items. The album for now is substantial, but
in no way is comprehensive of all the 6-9 material.
I am working hard on the third album, the stories of
the Old Testament, with particular emphasis on the
covenants and the typologies they contain. I am about
3/4 way through that material, but I still have a lot
of editing to do when I am done writing it. I hope to
offer that album before next fall.
Thanks for your appreciation and encouragement. It
really helps me to hear from folks. I hope I can be of
service to you again in the future.
__________________
Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Elizabeth
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alicegunther wrote:
Elizabeth wrote:
| Our notebooks--sacrament notebooks, Easter notbooks, pope notebooks--were huge successes. They were multi-dimensional and personally engaging. Is it unreasonable to expect that we can design a program that will be this way, all the time? |
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Yes, our special projects really helped inspire not only the children, but me as well. It is too late to write more, but you've really given me something to think about. |
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I'm eager to hear more and praying you've had a good night sleep and you get the gift of some computer time today, Alice  .
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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guitarnan
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OK, I am going to try to post the ideas I wrote about 2 days ago...let's hope it works this time!
We've always used F&L as our basic text. One reason for this is that we move so often; F&L is so orthodox (no fluff or fun, just basics of the faith) that even our conservative pastor in Italy (he's on the Roman Rota) liked it. When I say we use F&L, no one ever discusses my choice of books again.
What I don't tell them until later is that F&L is only part of the picture. We read lots and lots and lots of Bible stories. I have five different childrens' Bibles and we're reading through them all. We read saint stories. (CHC has some great Stories of the Saints books with reading comp. questions and activities in them.) My daughter (age 7, energetic and hands-on) usually uses two other "workbook" or "activity" style books during the year. We've used the Image of God series and a bunch of different sacramental prep books, and I just acquired an older Dinah Zike Old Testament activity book that dd really loves. We're also working on a First Communion notebook for her (thanks, Elizabeth!!!).
Ds loves the "nothing but the facts" approach of F&L. I know that sounds horrifying, but he really does like it. So, we use it. I have heard him explaining our faith to friends on the playground, many times, and so I know it's working for him. Sometimes he participates in dd's hands-on activities, and sometimes he doesn't.
We also try to emphasize the feasts and seasons of the Church. Our tiny parish doesn't do much in this area (yet! We're working on it!) but we do go to whatever they have. When we travel we always find a really big church to go to so that the children see that there are many kinds of faith communities. We bring the Church year into our homes with family activities (Advent angel chain, all kinds of Advent calendars, an Advent wreath and a bunch of purple items all decorated our school area - and the living room - and the dining room - during that season).
Another thing we're working on is service. Our church is very tiny and relies on volunteers for cleaning, mowing, etc. Well, actually for everything. We don't have a paid staff. So next week is our turn to clean...and the kids help. Ds also helps with things like food prep for the First Communion retreat; he's too shy to want to be an altar server, so we've told him that he has to do other things around the Church instead. He likes working with other teens on activities for the younger kids.
Dh and I are in the music ministry, so the children can't escape the liturgical music...it's everywhere...in the car, at home, etc.
As our little parish tries to put together a vision for faith activities for the whole community, we're trying to find ways to integrate the "next generation" into music, service, liturgy...this is really important to me, so I've managed to get onto the planning team. (!)
In other words, what we try to do at home is teach the basics of our faith: sacred Scripture, Church teachings, etc. We also try to bring our faith into everyday life through family participation in parish activities, through service, and through hands-on experiences at home. No book is going to do all that, but most of us are probably doing a lot of this already. Children need to see US living our faith; if we bring them along as we do this, they'll see that the faith has meaning for us and they will want that meaning for themselves.
__________________
Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Religious Ed in your house?
